On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"Jack Goff" wrote in message
...

"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

No creo.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John, you've got to admit that the American manufacturers asked for their
problems back in the 1970s, by selling almost nothing but crap. They're
still paying the price.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."
John

How about a small compromise. "Buy North American" We make cars in
Canada too! In fact, Ontario makes more cars & trucks than does the state
of Michigan. General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota & Cami.(
GM/Suzuki) are made here in Ontario.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...


How about a small compromise. "Buy North American" We make cars in
Canada too! In fact, Ontario makes more cars & trucks than does the state
of Michigan. General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota & Cami.(
GM/Suzuki) are made here in Ontario.


D'oh! That's a family secret. We don't want to antagonize our neighbours
to the south.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:42:22 -0500, Tuuk wrote:

ok krause

lets look at what you said,,

''''' I received a nice email from the RCMP about our buddy Tuuk, along
with a
suggestion of how to proceed. Perhaps he'll be back in his beloved
homeland faster than he planned."'"''"


krause,, you are a liar,,,

Ya know... of all the folks here over the years that seem to have a
love-affair with Harry (Karen of Oz, Skipper,...) you seem the most
smitten.

Do you do ANYTHING but scour this NG for posts from Harry, just to reply
to them? Have you ever posted ANYTHING that wasn't an anti-Harry rant?
Geez, if you hate the man, put him on your ignore list!

And BTW, Tuuk, don't bother responding. You're now on MY ignore list.

On behalf of all Canadians, I apologise for this pond scum.

Lloyd

JohnH,
I got your email. Very nice pictures. Just curious as to the camera
you're using?
Paul

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

snipped

Crap. I have to put your email addy in there, which I won't do. I
thought anyone could go look, but apparently only those authorized
with an email addy.

Let me know if it's OK, and I'll put your email addy there.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Lloyd,
At times Harry irritates me and for a while I had him blocked as well.
At least some of Harry's post are worthwhile But this Tuuk fellow has
nothing worth reading at all.
Paul
PS Happy New Year to all.

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:42:22 -0500, Tuuk wrote:

ok krause

lets look at what you said,,

''''' I received a nice email from the RCMP about our buddy Tuuk, along
with a
suggestion of how to proceed. Perhaps he'll be back in his beloved
homeland faster than he planned."'"''"


krause,, you are a liar,,,

Ya know... of all the folks here over the years that seem to have a
love-affair with Harry (Karen of Oz, Skipper,...) you seem the most
smitten.

Do you do ANYTHING but scour this NG for posts from Harry, just to reply
to them? Have you ever posted ANYTHING that wasn't an anti-Harry rant?
Geez, if you hate the man, put him on your ignore list!

And BTW, Tuuk, don't bother responding. You're now on MY ignore list.

On behalf of all Canadians, I apologise for this pond scum.

Lloyd

Also Sprach Jack Goff :

"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

Where did I say that I'd buy a Honda?

Dan





--
Rosncrantz : Dark, isn't it?
Guildenstern : Not for night.
Rosncrantz : No. Not for night.
Guildenstern : It's dark for day.
Rosncrantz : Oh yes. It's dark for day

-- Rosncrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach Jack Goff :

"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

Where did I say that I'd buy a Honda?

Dan

He was using the Honda as his last experience with foreign cars in general.

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:27:40 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John, you've got to admit that the American manufacturers asked for their
problems back in the 1970s, by selling almost nothing but crap. They're
still paying the price.


Readily admitted. Back then we weren't losing the jobs to outsourcing
that we are now. So many people whine about the outsourcing problems
and jobs lost by the Bush administration, and then they go buy a
Toyota. I can't understand the logic.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:47:23 -0500, "Jim Carter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."
John

How about a small compromise. "Buy North American" We make cars in
Canada too! In fact, Ontario makes more cars & trucks than does the state
of Michigan. General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota & Cami.(
GM/Suzuki) are made here in Ontario.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield


I believe my pickup was made in Canada. It's been great. I concur with
"Buy North (of the Rio Grande) America".

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 07:01:55 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

JohnH,
I got your email. Very nice pictures. Just curious as to the camera
you're using?
Paul

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

snipped

Crap. I have to put your email addy in there, which I won't do. I
thought anyone could go look, but apparently only those authorized
with an email addy.

Let me know if it's OK, and I'll put your email addy there.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes


It was a present from the wife. A Nikon D70 with the 28-70mm zoom.
It's sold as the Nikon D70 outfit. The pictures I sent you were the
reduced ones (down to about 640X480) for emails. I take them at the
'jpg fine' setting, which uses about 2.5 MB per picture. I can usually
send only one or two, at the most, at a time because of the 5MB limit
on email size.

If you'd like, drop me an email and I'll send one of the 'non-reduced'
versions to give you a 'real' idea of why I like this camera!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"Harry Krause" wrote:

My last two Ford trucks, a Splash and an F150, were high-quality
vehicles. When I travel and rent-a-car, I try to rent Fords. I like GM
trucks, but the car line doesn't impress me much, and nothing Chrysler
puts out interests me.


Damn, Harry likes Fords. OK, I'll admit it... you have one redeeming
quality. :-)

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:46:12 -0800, Lloyd Sumpter
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:42:22 -0500, Tuuk wrote:

ok krause

lets look at what you said,,

''''' I received a nice email from the RCMP about our buddy Tuuk, along
with a
suggestion of how to proceed. Perhaps he'll be back in his beloved
homeland faster than he planned."'"''"


krause,, you are a liar,,,

Ya know... of all the folks here over the years that seem to have a
love-affair with Harry (Karen of Oz, Skipper,...) you seem the most
smitten.

Do you do ANYTHING but scour this NG for posts from Harry, just to reply
to them? Have you ever posted ANYTHING that wasn't an anti-Harry rant?
Geez, if you hate the man, put him on your ignore list!

And BTW, Tuuk, don't bother responding. You're now on MY ignore list.

On behalf of all Canadians, I apologise for this pond scum.

Lloyd

Lloyd, I haven't seen many of Harry's recent posts, because I filtered
him. But, have you ever been on the receiving end of Harry's vicious
posts? The guy deserves everything he gets.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:46:12 -0800, Lloyd Sumpter
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:42:22 -0500, Tuuk wrote:

ok krause

lets look at what you said,,

''''' I received a nice email from the RCMP about our buddy Tuuk, along
with a
suggestion of how to proceed. Perhaps he'll be back in his beloved
homeland faster than he planned."'"''"


krause,, you are a liar,,,

Ya know... of all the folks here over the years that seem to have a
love-affair with Harry (Karen of Oz, Skipper,...) you seem the most
smitten.

Do you do ANYTHING but scour this NG for posts from Harry, just to reply
to them? Have you ever posted ANYTHING that wasn't an anti-Harry rant?
Geez, if you hate the man, put him on your ignore list!

And BTW, Tuuk, don't bother responding. You're now on MY ignore list.

On behalf of all Canadians, I apologise for this pond scum.

Lloyd

Lloyd, I haven't seen many of Harry's recent posts, because I filtered
him. But, have you ever been on the receiving end of Harry's vicious
posts? The guy deserves everything he gets.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Amen.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:09:52 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
Wife bought me a new, screaming yellow, 5 speed manual, Mustang GT for
Christmas! Well, actually I'll be making the payments, and I picked it
out. But, she said OK, and that's as good as buying it.

Great car, fast, fun, and furious. Can't wait to drive it up to the
boat to go fishing.


Very nice! We've decided to buy a convertible this coming spring, and
the
new '05 Mustang vert is up there on the list of possibilities. It's due
out
in Jan-Feb, and it one of the less expensive we're interested in, but I
think it'll be more fun than most of the others.

Jack


A neighbor has a 2005 V6 with automatic transmission. We went out the
other day in it, and it is a screamer too. That transmission is the
smoothest shifting I've ever experienced.


That's good to hear, but if we end up with a Mustang it'll be a V8 GT. I'd
go for the SVT Cobra, but they reportedly won't be out until '06, and I
haven't heard if they'll be offered in a convertible. We won't be waiting
that long.

The wife is leaning towards a Boxster at the moment. I can deal with
that...at least she doesn't still want a Volvo... yuck.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:1104617381.e86fbd8d20d41bc5074696536c9841dd@t eranews...

A Boxster? They're ok, but they're pretty common.
I prefer sports cars with a little flair...
Like old Jags or Healeys, or a Fiat Abarth...they run at least half the
time and look good on the side of the road with the bonnet raised!



There's another blast from the past. During my Navy tour in Naples, Italy
back in '69-'72, Mrs. E and I tooled around in a early '60s vintage Fiat
Abarth 600. It was about 3/4 of the size of an Austin Mini-Cooper and had a
high performance 12.5 hp engine. They were known as the "throw-a-way cars -
drive them for about 15-20 thousand miles and throw them away.

I used to get a kick out of seeing 3 generations of an Italian family all
packed into one of the little Fiats, with noses and other body parts pressed
up against the windows as they all motored down to the soccer stadium for
the big match.

Eisboch

"Harry Krause" wrote in message

Jack Goff wrote:

The wife is leaning towards a Boxster at the moment. I can deal with
that...at least she doesn't still want a Volvo... yuck.




A Boxster? They're ok, but they're pretty common.
I prefer sports cars with a little flair...
Like old Jags or Healeys, or a Fiat Abarth...they run at least half the
time and look good on the side of the road with the bonnet raised!

Few thing rev me up as much as a late '60s Jag XKE. Unfortunately, some
degree of reliability is a requirement.

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 21:45:30 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote:

My last two Ford trucks, a Splash and an F150, were high-quality
vehicles. When I travel and rent-a-car, I try to rent Fords. I like GM
trucks, but the car line doesn't impress me much, and nothing Chrysler
puts out interests me.


Damn, Harry likes Fords. OK, I'll admit it... you have one redeeming
quality. :-)

Ask Harry what he's driving now!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 21:55:13 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:09:52 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
Wife bought me a new, screaming yellow, 5 speed manual, Mustang GT for
Christmas! Well, actually I'll be making the payments, and I picked it
out. But, she said OK, and that's as good as buying it.

Great car, fast, fun, and furious. Can't wait to drive it up to the
boat to go fishing.


Very nice! We've decided to buy a convertible this coming spring, and
the
new '05 Mustang vert is up there on the list of possibilities. It's due
out
in Jan-Feb, and it one of the less expensive we're interested in, but I
think it'll be more fun than most of the others.

Jack


A neighbor has a 2005 V6 with automatic transmission. We went out the
other day in it, and it is a screamer too. That transmission is the
smoothest shifting I've ever experienced.


That's good to hear, but if we end up with a Mustang it'll be a V8 GT. I'd
go for the SVT Cobra, but they reportedly won't be out until '06, and I
haven't heard if they'll be offered in a convertible. We won't be waiting
that long.

The wife is leaning towards a Boxster at the moment. I can deal with
that...at least she doesn't still want a Volvo... yuck.


I had been thinking of the Boxter, but lost all thoughts thereof when
I saw the Mustang. Sitting in it (at 6'3.5") made me a believer. The
Boxter is just too short on room - not leg room (?) but back seat and
trunk room. Can't play Santa to the grandkids with a Boxter.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Also Sprach Doug Kanter :

He was using the Honda as his last experience with foreign cars in general.

Might as well use a Chrysler as your experience with domestic cars in
general.

Dan


--
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

-- Douglas Adams

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:27:40 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John, you've got to admit that the American manufacturers asked for their
problems back in the 1970s, by selling almost nothing but crap. They're
still paying the price.


Readily admitted. Back then we weren't losing the jobs to outsourcing
that we are now. So many people whine about the outsourcing problems
and jobs lost by the Bush administration, and then they go buy a
Toyota. I can't understand the logic.

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by the
American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years. Toyota
offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require a "niche
car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans jobs
by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in the shop 5
times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act: Find a way to
get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the Ford was about to
cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a Toyota. My logic: If
American engineers can't build a car correctly, they deserve to lose their
jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to the
manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on end.
For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The manufacturers
should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the manufacturers a
ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some sort of religious
status. I makes no sense at all.

"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach Doug Kanter :

He was using the Honda as his last experience with foreign cars in
general.

Might as well use a Chrysler as your experience with domestic cars in
general.

Apples to oranges. Yeah...the Honda isn't made quite as well as a Toyota,
but for the first two years of its life, it's still a better car than any
brand new American thing.

It's moot anyway. Hondas are made here, as are most Toyotas. In accounting
terms, the only difference between a Chevy and a Toyota is that you have to
buy ADRs if you want to own stock in Toyota. Let's take it further: If you
bought nothing but American cars, you probably think you're doing the
country a favor because the profits stay here. Bzzzzzzzzzt! Sorry. Wrong.

"Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Jack Goff" wrote in message

Correct. And also comparing the highly touted Honda quality against the
two
Fords... in my case the Fords win hands-down. Other's experience may
differ. But I'll probably never put another Honda in my driveway. I'll
buy
another Ford.

Borrow a car and drive behind your Ford a year from now. If you don't
notice
anything, stop at a convenience store, buy a bag of ice and pour it down
your pants. Get back in the car and follow your Ford for another 15
minutes.
If you still don't notice anything, go home. You are clinically dead. Have
yourself buried.


Funny... I just had an occasion to do just that. I drove behind my 1998
Ford Explorer, the one that is 7 years old and has 120k miles on it. And I
did notice something... that it looked like most other cars on the road. It
didn't smoke, lurch, track sideways, vibrate, nothing. It didn't
distinguish itself in any way... it went about its job of being a vehicle in
a competent, workman-like manner.

It doesn't leak, rattle, whine... nothing. Original motor, tranny,
everything. The only problem it has is the power antennae quit working
about two months ago. Still looks like new inside and out. Has needed one
brake job, one set of tires, and I replaced the shocks with some higher
performance ones because I wanted them.

So back to you, Kanter... how can you be perfectly lucid in the previous
post, then so off the wall and obtuse in this one? Are you drinking or
smoking late at night? Would you sober up for a moment and explain your
nonsense?

Southern Tier Rivers - Warmer temperatures and rain have cleared out much
of the flow ice from the rivers. If you can get out in a boat, vertical
jigging with a medium sized minnow in the deeper holes should be very
productive for walleye. Casting a jig and minnow from shore should also work
well in the coming days.

"Jack Goff" wrote in message
om...


So back to you, Kanter... how can you be perfectly lucid in the previous
post, then so off the wall and obtuse in this one? Are you drinking or
smoking late at night? Would you sober up for a moment and explain your
nonsense?



If you're open to noticing, you'll find that relatively young Fords,
especially larger ones, smell like 30 year old Toyotas. Not as bad a
Chrysler minivans, though. But, let's drop this subject. Cars are too
closely tied to the ego in this country. You cannot bring actual mechanical
reality into the conversation, like the information I've gotten from a guy
whose job it is to install and program the CNC machining equipment at
several Ford & Chrysler plants.

Water Species Open Season Minimum Length Daily Limit Method All waters
except as listed below Trout Apr 1 - Oct 15 Any size 5- with no more than 2
longer than 12" Lake Ontario and tributaries to first barrier All species

See Great Lakes regulations
Oatka Creek except section below Trout All year Any size 5- with no more
than 2 longer than 12" Oatka Creek from Bowerman Road upstream 1.4 miles to
Union St. and Wheatland Center Rd. upstream 2.5 miles to the mouth of Spring
Creek Trout Apr 1 - Oct 15

Oct 16 - Mar 31 12"


No Kill 2


No Kill --


Artificial lures only Oatka Creek from Union Street upstream 1.7 miles to
Wheatland Center Rd Trout All year No Kill Artificial lures only Spring
Creek Trout Apr 1 - Oct 15

Oct 16 - Mar 31 12"


No Kill 2


No Kill --


Artificial lures only

"Doug Kanter" wrote:

If you're open to noticing, you'll find that relatively young Fords,
especially larger ones, smell like 30 year old Toyotas. Not as bad a
Chrysler minivans, though.

30 year old Toyota's don't smell. They're parked in junkyards, rotting
away. When's the last time you saw a 1975 Toyota on the road? Smell?
Maybe it's your upper lip... hehe

Now my 35 year old Ford smells. 351C 4V, headers, duals, Flowmasters,
posi-trac. It smells like a V8 with no catalytic converters. But you
wouldn't smell it for long... :-)


But, let's drop this subject. Cars are too
closely tied to the ego in this country. You cannot bring actual
mechanical
reality into the conversation, like the information I've gotten from a guy
whose job it is to install and program the CNC machining equipment at
several Ford & Chrysler plants.

Another obtuse post. What's the info? That he install equipment there, and
can only tell you things he's seen at one or two Ford or Chrysler plants?
That he has no info on the scene at Toyota or any other plants? Let me
guess... he is a big Toyota or GM or brand X fan, and only sees what he (and
his ego) wants to see?

Since you have your panties in a wad over Toyota, let's talk about them for
a minute... I've owned one. IMO, they are very reliable, but boring. They
have no style, average handling, decent ergonomics. I'd recommend one to my
mom if she was inclined. But they are mundane, average, boring vehicles
that, on average, last a long time. If you're about to flatline, I guess
you could love one.

"Jack Goff" wrote in message
om...


But, let's drop this subject. Cars are too
closely tied to the ego in this country. You cannot bring actual
mechanical
reality into the conversation, like the information I've gotten from a
guy
whose job it is to install and program the CNC machining equipment at
several Ford & Chrysler plants.

Another obtuse post. What's the info? That he install equipment there,
and
can only tell you things he's seen at one or two Ford or Chrysler plants?
That he has no info on the scene at Toyota or any other plants? Let me
guess... he is a big Toyota or GM or brand X fan, and only sees what he
(and
his ego) wants to see?

6 plants, so far. Where did you get 1 or 2 from?

The purchaser of the CNC equipment can specify, within a certain range, how
tightly they want to limit tolerances. That's a mechanical adjustment. After
engine parts are made, each manufacturer decides what's considered a
rejected part, and what gets used. This is a management decision. The
difference between what Toyota will accept and what Ford, Chrysler and GM
will accept does not fall into the category of "negligible".

If you think this is obtuse, let me know in your next post.

JohnH,
"D70" That explains it!!! :-)
Paul

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
snipped
It was a present from the wife. A Nikon D70 with the 28-70mm zoom.
It's sold as the Nikon D70 outfit.

snipped

John H

Doug,
I can understand how you feel. I work as an electrician, for Ford at the
Romeo Engine Plant. I hired in the in 1989. Since we were building the
engine plant we went to a lot of classes. We learned that Ford changed its
way of doing business because of the Japanese. What you say is completely
true and very embarrassing. They're whole focus was on numbers, we've since
learnt different. Today quality is the first priority. Anyone can stop the
line if something is wrong. No we're not perfect but we sure as hell are
trying. The union has a quality rep that you can call if you feel quality is
being ignored. A lot of the members of upper management in the plant come
and go as they move up the ladder. But we as members of an engine building
team will either prosper or fail with this plant are here for the long term.
The product that we deliver to you determines our future. I assure you that
the majority of us are very concerned with quality. Doug, I appo;igize about
the past and hope you check us out in the future.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

snipped

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by
the American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years.
Toyota offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require a
"niche car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans
jobs by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in the
shop 5 times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act: Find
a way to get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the Ford was
about to cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a Toyota. My
logic: If American engineers can't build a car correctly, they deserve to
lose their jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to
the manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on
end. For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The
manufacturers should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the
manufacturers a ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some sort
of religious status. I makes no sense at all.

Harry,
That's because they has "Lucas" Princess of Darkness.
Paul

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:1104617381.e86fbd8d20d41bc5074696536c9841dd@t eranews...

snipped

I prefer sports cars with a little flair...
Like old Jags or Healeys, or a Fiat Abarth...they run at least half the
time and look good on the side of the road with the bonnet raised!

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote in message
...
Harry,
That's because they has "Lucas" Princess of Darkness.
Paul

Hi Paul:

That's the truth! Many years ago, I owned a Vauxhall Victor Rally Car and
that damn car never ran more than 100 kilometers in the rain without
something in the electric parts system quitting. It was the worst car that
I have ever owned.
I now have a Chevy TrailBlazer and I just love it.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

Harry,
I've seen ads in car magazines ( Motor Trend, Car & Driver) for a
XKE replica made in the States with a 283 Chevy engine. Might be something
to look into.
Paul

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:1104621799.dd5bd542ac1921775b911ffc774cf76c@t eranews...

snipped

I've been looking at a very good E-Type replica made in Australia, and
when I say very good, I mean that. Actually, it is better than the E-Type
in many mechanical ways.

Take a look:

http://www.temperocars.com/

Take a look at the D Jag on that site..I love it.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 17:56:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Southern Tier Rivers - Warmer temperatures and rain have cleared out much
of the flow ice from the rivers. If you can get out in a boat, vertical
jigging with a medium sized minnow in the deeper holes should be very
productive for walleye. Casting a jig and minnow from shore should also work
well in the coming days.


Doug, today I was behind three Mustangs on different occasions. I
noticed nothing remarkable. Perhaps I'm just brain addled. Or, perhaps
*I'm* not.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

I almost did buy one two years ago - a Crown Victoria, since I wanted a rear
wheel drive car for towing. I would've preferred that car to my pickup truck
because the gas mileage was about 25% better. But then, I read about the
feature that wasn't in the brochu The thing about the exploding gas tank
and rear-end collisions. I realize other cars may have this problem, but
that fact had no bearing on my decision. I may look again in the future, but
only after finding out if the issue has been dealt with. Police departments
are happy to dispense this information.



"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote in message
...
Doug,
I can understand how you feel. I work as an electrician, for Ford at
the Romeo Engine Plant. I hired in the in 1989. Since we were building the
engine plant we went to a lot of classes. We learned that Ford changed its
way of doing business because of the Japanese. What you say is completely
true and very embarrassing. They're whole focus was on numbers, we've
since learnt different. Today quality is the first priority. Anyone can
stop the line if something is wrong. No we're not perfect but we sure as
hell are trying. The union has a quality rep that you can call if you feel
quality is being ignored. A lot of the members of upper management in the
plant come and go as they move up the ladder. But we as members of an
engine building team will either prosper or fail with this plant are here
for the long term. The product that we deliver to you determines our
future. I assure you that the majority of us are very concerned with
quality. Doug, I appo;igize about the past and hope you check us out in
the future.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

snipped

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by
the American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years.
Toyota offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require a
"niche car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans
jobs by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in
the shop 5 times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act:
Find a way to get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the
Ford was about to cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a
Toyota. My logic: If American engineers can't build a car correctly, they
deserve to lose their jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to
the manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on
end. For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The
manufacturers should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the
manufacturers a ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some
sort of religious status. I makes no sense at all.

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:25:38 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

JohnH,
"D70" That explains it!!! :-)
Paul

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
snipped
It was a present from the wife. A Nikon D70 with the 28-70mm zoom.
It's sold as the Nikon D70 outfit.

snipped

John H


It's a great camera. I'd recommend it to anyone.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
I almost did buy one two years ago - a Crown Victoria, since I wanted a
rear wheel drive car for towing. I would've preferred that car to my
pickup truck because the gas mileage was about 25% better. But then, I
read about the feature that wasn't in the brochu The thing about the
exploding gas tank and rear-end collisions. I realize other cars may have
this problem, but that fact had no bearing on my decision. I may look
again in the future, but only after finding out if the issue has been
dealt with. Police departments are happy to dispense this information.



"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote in message
...

Doug,
I can understand how you feel. I work as an electrician, for Ford at
the Romeo Engine Plant. I hired in the in 1989. Since we were building
the engine plant we went to a lot of classes. We learned that Ford
changed its way of doing business because of the Japanese. What you say
is completely true and very embarrassing. They're whole focus was on
numbers, we've since learnt different. Today quality is the first
priority. Anyone can stop the line if something is wrong. No we're not
perfect but we sure as hell are trying. The union has a quality rep that
you can call if you feel quality is being ignored. A lot of the members
of upper management in the plant come and go as they move up the ladder.
But we as members of an engine building team will either prosper or fail
with this plant are here for the long term. The product that we deliver
to you determines our future. I assure you that the majority of us are
very concerned with quality. Doug, I appo;igize about the past and hope
you check us out in the future.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

snipped


How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by
the American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years.
Toyota offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require
a "niche car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans
jobs by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in
the shop 5 times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act:
Find a way to get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the
Ford was about to cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a
Toyota. My logic: If American engineers can't build a car correctly,
they deserve to lose their jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to
the manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on
end. For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The
manufacturers should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the
manufacturers a ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some
sort of religious status. I makes no sense at all.






The Crown Vic was my favorite US full-sized car, until that "defect" came
to light. A friend has the small Caddy whatever, and it's a pretty nice
car. Ford has a new sedan, the 500 something, that looks kind of
interesting. Most of the GM cars I've been in leave much to be desired,
and the Chrysler products are pretty grim.

In the car lines, I think it is tough to beat Toyota, and it doesn't
matter where they are assembled. But I think the full-size Ford and Chevy
trucks are aces. And for $50,000, there is nothing around to equal the
Corvette.

I looked at a Dodge intrepid, but as I mentioned elsewhere, pieces were
falling off the dash. Even funnier, though: I asked the sales thing "Is this
front or rear wheel drive?" He said "Hmmm.....it's probably one or the
other. Why do you need to know?" Down the center stage trapdoor with him.
:-)

"Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Jack Goff" wrote:


What's the info? That he install equipment there,
and
can only tell you things he's seen at one or two Ford or Chrysler
plants?
That he has no info on the scene at Toyota or any other plants? Let me
guess... he is a big Toyota or GM or brand X fan, and only sees what he
(and
his ego) wants to see?

6 plants, so far. Where did you get 1 or 2 from?

Try reading for content. "What's the info?" That means you gave no initial
info, and I'm asking for more.

"That he install equipment there, and can only tell you things he's seen at
one or two Ford or Chrysler plants?" The question mark at the end signifies
that I'm asking a question, not making a statement. It's a possible
scenario to your mysterious situation.

Got it now?


The purchaser of the CNC equipment can specify, within a certain range,
how
tightly they want to limit tolerances. That's a mechanical adjustment.

No, it's a designed-in ability of the CNC machine to be able to hold, and
repeat said tolerance. It's a mechanical adjustment to setup the machine
initially to perfom correctly, and to re-adjust or fix it when it wears
enough to lose its accuracy.

After engine parts are made, each manufacturer decides what's considered a
rejected part, and what gets used. This is a management decision. The
difference between what Toyota will accept and what Ford, Chrysler and GM
will accept does not fall into the category of "negligible".

If you think this is obtuse, let me know in your next post.


Still fairly obtuse. What is said CNC equipment being used to manufacture?
Pistons at Toyota and alternator brackets at Ford? You do realize that
there would be a *huge* difference in the pass/fail parameters for different
types of parts, right? And lets not forget about the fact that the *design*
of the overall gizmo (engine, brake caliper, etc...) determines what
tolerances need to be kept, and those acceptable tolerance ranges aren't an
indication of quality in and of themselves. Also, management does not
decide what is acceptable to be used in a design. Engineering gives them
the ranges to use, and management enforces that. If the range is too tight
to be cost effectively manufactured, a re-design is indicated.

Besides, you do realize that Ford and Toyota don't make their own pistons,
right? They each have hundreds of suppliers, each making some unique part
they specialize in. For example, the Wiseco company could, and probably
does, make pistons for both Ford and Toyota USA.

Is your ass not getting tired of talking? Have another drink, Kanter.

(note to Kanter... you didn't say pistons... I'm using them as an example...
Reading Comprehension 101)