OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Gould 0738 wrote:
Moveon.org vetted these commercials and allowed it to be aired
with
the words "sponsored by moveon.org". Lie (it is really not spin
when
it comes from someone so intellegent as you) if you want, but they
put
it out, sponsored it, approved it, a

Lie?

I said the ad did not appear in the media.

Please let me know where the item has appeared as an actual
campaign
tool, and
I will retract my statement. If you have no knowlegde of the item
appearing in
the press, you have no business calling me a liar.

AFAIK, the only place the ad appeared was on the moveon.org
website,
among a
group of other ads submitted for consideration.




Heheheh. You ain't seen nuthin' yet...the excoriation of George W.
Bush,
live and in color on all channels...

I hope so. That's the surest way to push the "undecideds" either (a)
to
bush, or (b) to stay home and not vote.





Doubtful...the ads I got to preview today in storyboard form show the
similarities between a number of Bush's actions and actions of certain
fascist states of recent memory in efforts to restrict the freedom of
citizens.

Good. The moveon.org Hitler/Bush ad created a helluva backlash. People
*like* Bush. Attacking him as a person is a sure way to alienate the
70% of
the people that "like him as a person".




They're fundraising commercials. There are certain language
similarities, even, in some of the Bush Administration's actions to
limit freedoms with the language used against the citizens of
Argentina,
Chile, Spain, and former Soviet bloc states.

Most "undecideds" couldn't even name three of the former Soviet bloc
states.
You might think that "undecided" means that someone is thoughtfully
considering all of the candidates...but, in reality, "undecided" can be
translated to mean "I have no idea because I don't follow politics and
the
issues".

I'm sorry, but the fascist ruminations of a 30-year-old dentist who went
from mommy's apron strings to college to dental school to a life of ease
in South Florida are meaningless. Let me know when life has dealt you a
few serious blows and you develop a bit of compassion for humanity, eh?

Compassion has nothing to do with analyzing how a group of people will vote.
If it did, the Democrat strategists wouldn't exploit minorities, the poor,
single moms, and the uninsured, and turn them into political pawns.

You can try to divert the issue by talking about *my* life...but it doesn't
change the fact that, in the end, most "undecideds" vote for the more
"likeable" guy. I figured you would have learned first-hand in highschool
that attacking the "in" crowd just makes you the "outcast". It does nothing
to tarnish the image of the popular folk.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2004 17:32:40 -0800, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

(Gould 0738) wrote in message
...
Of course, the fact that one of the commercials plainly said
"sponsored by moveon.org" at the end of the ad seems to have slipped
by your blinders. I love it when you guys forget the facts.

The *fact* is that the ads didn't run in the media.. They were two ads
out of a
much larger group of ads that were submitted to moveon.org as proposals
to
consider for the upcomiong campaign.

It's no different than some redneck getting on a talk show and saying
equally
ridiculous and hateful things about moderates or liberals. Are your
radio hosts
liable for every opinion that their callers express on the air?

Moveon.org vetted these commercials and allowed it to be aired with
the words "sponsored by moveon.org". Lie (it is really not spin when
it comes from someone so intellegent as you) if you want, but they put
it out, sponsored it, approved it, and now they are backing off it...

Gould ain't stoopid. He knows they approved the posting of the
commercials.

Gould ain't stoopid, just disingenuous.

I haven't been paying attention to Chuck's ramblings on this. Is he
*really* claiming the ad was run by an independent individual without the
blessing of moveon.org and the Democratic Party? I find it hard to believe
that he'd be that naive...

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

NOYB wrote:

You can try to divert the issue by talking about *my* life...but it doesn't
change the fact that, in the end, most "undecideds" vote for the more
"likeable" guy. I figured you would have learned first-hand in highschool
that attacking the "in" crowd just makes you the "outcast". It does nothing
to tarnish the image of the popular folk.


You ain't the "in-crowd," Twerpy.


--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

You can try to divert the issue by talking about *my* life...but it
doesn't
change the fact that, in the end, most "undecideds" vote for the more
"likeable" guy. I figured you would have learned first-hand in
highschool
that attacking the "in" crowd just makes you the "outcast". It does
nothing
to tarnish the image of the popular folk.


You ain't the "in-crowd," Twerpy.

"Twerpy"? You're still taking pot-shots at the "in-crowd" by name-calling?

Besides an occasional "swirlie", did any grave physical harm result from
your taunts when you were in school? I would have guessed that you finally
realized you weren't "cool" when you saw the other guys sneaking out of the
sorority house in the morning...while you delivered bagels. Of course,
you're so intentionally obtuse sometimes, you probably assumed the smiles
from the girls was a form of flirtation. Didn't the eruption of laughter as
the door closed behind you tip you off that something wasn't Kosher?

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

You can try to divert the issue by talking about *my* life...but it
doesn't
change the fact that, in the end, most "undecideds" vote for the more
"likeable" guy. I figured you would have learned first-hand in
highschool
that attacking the "in" crowd just makes you the "outcast". It does
nothing
to tarnish the image of the popular folk.


You ain't the "in-crowd," Twerpy.

"Twerpy"? You're still taking pot-shots at the "in-crowd" by name-calling?

Besides an occasional "swirlie", did any grave physical harm result from
your taunts when you were in school? I would have guessed that you finally
realized you weren't "cool" when you saw the other guys sneaking out of the
sorority house in the morning...while you delivered bagels. Of course,
you're so intentionally obtuse sometimes, you probably assumed the smiles
from the girls was a form of flirtation. Didn't the eruption of laughter as
the door closed behind you tip you off that something wasn't Kosher?


Huffing that gas again, eh, twerpie?

I mostly paid my own way through undergrad college, and delivering
doughnuts was only one of my many jobs. I also took average to better
than average photos for the school newspaper and yearbook (and met lots
of dates that way), picked up and delivered dry cleaning, delivered
flyers, whatever. Undergrad college was cheap in those days, and a
couple of meaningless jobs would get your ticket punched. I earned
enough to also support an old wreck of a Chevy *and* a slighter better
but well-used Honda Dream motorcycle, the one with the fenders that
seemed to be made out of old Japanese beer cans.

My third of college, I was hired for the summer as a reporter by a
newspaper, and I kept that job through graduation.

So...while I was paying my way, *you* were sucking down checks from
mommy and daddy, right? Are you still?

Also in my third year, I was living with a young lady student who worked
weekend evenings as a bunny at the KC Playboy Club. Cute gal, tall, with
absolutely fabulous teats. Not huge, just perfect.

What were you doing your third year of college? Sniffing the intestinal
gas of the other boys in the frat house?


--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

The head scratching is probably yours, trying to figure out
what I meant.

There are very good reasons why Bush is more and more often
compared to Hitler by more an more people in more and more
countries.

Rick

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Rick wrote:

The head scratching is probably yours, trying to figure out
what I meant.

There are very good reasons why Bush is more and more often
compared to Hitler by more an more people in more and more
countries.

Rick


The RepublicanBORG do not understand those they cannot assimilate, Rick.

--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

You can try to divert the issue by talking about *my* life...but it
doesn't
change the fact that, in the end, most "undecideds" vote for the more
"likeable" guy. I figured you would have learned first-hand in
highschool
that attacking the "in" crowd just makes you the "outcast". It does
nothing
to tarnish the image of the popular folk.


You ain't the "in-crowd," Twerpy.

"Twerpy"? You're still taking pot-shots at the "in-crowd" by
name-calling?

Besides an occasional "swirlie", did any grave physical harm result from
your taunts when you were in school? I would have guessed that you
finally
realized you weren't "cool" when you saw the other guys sneaking out of
the
sorority house in the morning...while you delivered bagels. Of course,
you're so intentionally obtuse sometimes, you probably assumed the
smiles
from the girls was a form of flirtation. Didn't the eruption of
laughter as
the door closed behind you tip you off that something wasn't Kosher?


Huffing that gas again, eh, twerpie?

I mostly paid my own way through undergrad college, and delivering
doughnuts was only one of my many jobs. I also took average to better
than average photos for the school newspaper and yearbook (and met lots
of dates that way), picked up and delivered dry cleaning, delivered
flyers, whatever. Undergrad college was cheap in those days, and a
couple of meaningless jobs would get your ticket punched. I earned
enough to also support an old wreck of a Chevy *and* a slighter better
but well-used Honda Dream motorcycle, the one with the fenders that
seemed to be made out of old Japanese beer cans.

My third of college, I was hired for the summer as a reporter by a
newspaper, and I kept that job through graduation.

So...while I was paying my way, *you* were sucking down checks from
mommy and daddy, right?

Nope. Stafford loans. Still have 26 years to pay 'em off.

Are you still?

Never did.



Also in my third year, I was living with a young lady student who worked
weekend evenings as a bunny at the KC Playboy Club. Cute gal, tall, with
absolutely fabulous teats. Not huge, just perfect.

What were you doing your third year of college? Sniffing the intestinal
gas of the other boys in the frat house?

I was probably screwing girls your daughter's age. Where were they in 1991
and 1992? Did they ever make any trips to West Lafayette?

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

What were you doing your third year of college? Sniffing the intestinal
gas of the other boys in the frat house?

I was probably screwing girls your daughter's age. Where were they in 1991
and 1992? Did they ever make any trips to West Lafayette?

Well, when you die at a ripe old age, at least you can recall,
hopefully, your one brief moment in the sun in Indiana.

I used to go to South Bend, Indiana every summer to teach a couple of
classes at a seminar. The campus was lovely, but Indiana sucked - big
time. Blech.



--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

What were you doing your third year of college? Sniffing the intestinal
gas of the other boys in the frat house?

I was probably screwing girls your daughter's age. Where were they in
1991
and 1992? Did they ever make any trips to West Lafayette?

Well, when you die at a ripe old age, at least you can recall,
hopefully, your one brief moment in the sun in Indiana.

I used to go to South Bend, Indiana every summer to teach a couple of
classes at a seminar. The campus was lovely, but Indiana sucked - big
time. Blech.

Can't argue with you there. Bloomington was OK...I only attended IU
bloomington for one year, however. It was close to Brown County, which was
wonderful in the fall when the leaves started to change color. The Amish
influence made it a very warm and inviting little town. I lived in
Northwest Indiana, about 45 miles south of Chicago...and 15 miles south of
Lake Michigan. South Bend was about 45 minutes to my East. I travelled
there on occasion to visit a girl attending St. Mary's, and for a couple of
Fighting Irish games. It was also where I took the GMAT and the Dental
Admission test. As for Purdue...West Lafayette's only redeeming quality was
that it was close to Indianapolis, and not too far from home.

Before moving to Indiana in '87, I lived in NJ. NJ wasn't bad...sort of a
mini California (beach, "mountains", big city near by, etc). The weather
sucked however.

Given a choice of setting up practice in either of those two states along
Route 80, you can imagine why I chose to move to Florida.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Gould ain't stoopid. He knows they approved the posting of the
commercials.

Gould ain't stoopid, just disingenuous.


It was posted on the group's website.
Along with a lot of other ideas from contributors.

Sort of like a "letters to the editor" page.

You guys on the right: If you don't agree with something- try to suppress it.
Or pull it out of context and make it an issue.

I think comparing Bush to Hitler, (particularly Hitler in hindsight rather than
Hitler as he appeared to the masses of Germans he mesmerized in the late 30's),
is over the top.

But, I'll tell you this: I will defend the right of any person to make such a
comparison.
I accuse the right wing of being hateful in its propaganda techniques, but I
have never and will never suggest that the right wing should be legally
restrained.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

I haven't been paying attention to Chuck's ramblings on this. Is he
*really* claiming the ad was run by an independent individual without the
blessing of moveon.org and the Democratic Party? I find it hard to believe
that he'd be that naive...

I'm waiting for *anybody* to furnish *any* information that the proposed ad ran
*anywhere*.

I keep asking for this information, and all I get in return is a bunch of weak
minded flaming.......

You guys have any information that the ad appeared anywhere except as a
suggestion submitted to a website by a subscriber? This would be the time to
put up or shut up.

I have offered to retract my statement if it can be shown that this ad has been
used as a public campaign tool. So far, nada.
Nada but a bunch of acrimonious personal comments from the same bunch of usual
suspects.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Gould 0738 wrote:

I think comparing Bush to Hitler, (particularly Hitler in hindsight rather than
Hitler as he appeared to the masses of Germans he mesmerized in the late 30's),
is over the top.

As one who is always ready to find a parallel in Bush and
Hitler I do not think it is "over the top" to do so. Bush
and Co's activities and political "vision" so closely
resemble Hitler's in the 1930's that the comparison requires
little imagination to articulate.

He has mesmerized the masses with images of military power
and helped to create foreign and domestic enemies of the
"homeland" to divert attention from the destruction of those
policies and practices which provided health and security
for generations of Americans.

His handlers do not hesitate to suggest and even impose
policies which the Nuremberg tribunal found to be criminal.
The suggestion that US citizens may be stripped of
citizenship and deported (to where?), the fact of arresting
and holding incommunicado US citizens without charges or
legal representation, the use of military forces to invade a
sovereign state for "preemptive" purposes ... the list goes
on and increases daily.

Our fathers fought to stop what Bush is doing, what he has
done and what he and his handlers would impose upon us. The
comparison is valid.

Rick

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Here's the context in which the alleged
"Dem sleaze ad" appeared. It was submitted as a contest entry. To the best of
my knowledge, it has not appeared anywhere except among a large number of
contest entries on a site designed to accept entries to this contest.

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OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Also in my third year, I was living with a young lady student who worked
weekend evenings as a bunny at the KC Playboy Club. Cute gal, tall, with
absolutely fabulous teats. Not huge, just perfect.

Ah yes, how the sexist views all women.

You surely are a democratic sleaze bag.

-- Charlie


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OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 02:58:22 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Right now, I could point out that as of November, there was already a net
gain of 589,000 jobs in 2003...but it will be more fun to post an even
higher number tomorrow.

LOL, not enough. He'll still be the first net looser since Hoover. I
never liked Clinton, but we had 20 *million* new jobs under his
administration.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

On 09 Jan 2004 01:42:37 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Moveon.org vetted these commercials and allowed it to be aired with
the words "sponsored by moveon.org". Lie (it is really not spin when
it comes from someone so intellegent as you) if you want, but they put
it out, sponsored it, approved it, a

Lie?

I said the ad did not appear in the media.

So then you would not consider a public website which can be viewed by
a majority of the citizens of the world, not a media source?

Dave

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Right now, I could point out that as of November, there was already a net
gain of 589,000 jobs in 2003...but it will be more fun to post an even
higher number tomorrow.

What's 150,000 x 12?

I'm not strong in math, but it looks like 1.8mm to me. Long ways above 600k

We need 150,000 new jobs in this country *every* month just to keep pace with
population growth, immigration, etc.

According to the numbers provided above,
there are 1.2 million more people out of work now than 12 months ago.

I know, I know......you have a statistic that shows otherwise. Problem is, your
statistic assumes that unless somebody is collecting unemployment benefits they
must be working- or simply don't exist.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

So then you would not consider a public website which can be viewed by
a majority of the citizens of the world, not a media source?

Dave

Put it in context, Dave.

The proposed commercial was one of many, many, entries into a contest. It
reflects the opinion of the person that prepared it and entered it. It was an
item that was included with all the other entries to the same contest- as it
should have been. It was an entry.

Should moveon.org, or any organization, take it upon themselves to censor
contest entries that might be controversial?

Does your local rag ever run a letter to the editor expressing a sentiment you
disagree with? How dare they?!

Trust me, you really don't want to open the
"hateful web site" can of worms. There are some real doozies out there, and the
right would (and should) be very embarrassed by some of them.

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

On 09 Jan 2004 16:33:42 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

So then you would not consider a public website which can be viewed by
a majority of the citizens of the world, not a media source?

Dave

Put it in context, Dave.

I did. I consider the internet to be as visible (And in many cases
more so) than the traditional media of radio TV and print. Because
something erroneous or incideful was contained on the web is no reason
to treat it any differently than a similar piece in any other media.



The proposed commercial was one of many, many, entries into a contest. It
reflects the opinion of the person that prepared it and entered it. It was an
item that was included with all the other entries to the same contest- as it
should have been. It was an entry.

moveon.org should be responsible enough to verify the accuracy of
their sources. Promoting anything which is not true opens them up for
all sorts of liability suits.




Should moveon.org, or any organization, take it upon themselves to censor
contest entries that might be controversial?

They should if they become the vehicle by which blatant lies can be
promoted.


Does your local rag ever run a letter to the editor expressing a sentiment you
disagree with? How dare they?!

Op/Ed pieces are one thing. They are clearly marked as such. Placing
content on a web site without similar disclaimers is another.



Trust me, you really don't want to open the
"hateful web site" can of worms. There are some real doozies out there, and the
right would (and should) be very embarrassed by some of them.

And the first amendment protects them. But they aren't passing
themselves off as the truth either.

Dave

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Gould 0738 wrote:

Here's the context in which the alleged
"Dem sleaze ad" appeared. It was submitted as a contest entry. To the best of
my knowledge, it has not appeared anywhere except among a large number of
contest entries on a site designed to accept entries to this contest.

The rightwing are often called reactionary for good reason.
Had they produced any of the contest entries they would
defend the process against such an attack by liberal writers
as an effort to silence free speech and political freedom.

I wish I knew the term for the process, if a term even
exists, of launching a preemptive attack, using the most
foul of techniques to demean the other side for even
considering such tactics. They usurp what is decent and
leave it raped and bleeding in the trough of their
neofascist sty. They are so adept at distortion and
perversion that the truths they assault are no longer even
recognizable.

As the election approaches and the truth behind the invasion
of Irag; the destruction of our economy, and the very real
loss of our security and freedom becomes apparent to more
Americans I fear the Bu****es will take even more extreme
measures to maintain their hold.

All the signals have been seen before, in many countries,
over several recent generations. The current crop of
fascists have learned the techniques well, but, in their
arrogance they ignore the consequences, and this is the one
truth we may count on. They fail to attach the lessons of
history to their actions today.

If comparisons of Bush to Hitler are now being made in this
country it is encouraging in one way, it shows that
Americans may now be looking beyond diving Stukas in the old
newsreel images and seeing the political animal and the herd
he led to destruction. Americans are beginning to understand
that it can "happen here" and how easily a demagogue like
Bush can lead us to the same destination.

Rick

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

Rick wrote in message news:DVCLb.657

I wish I knew the term for the process, if a term even
exists, of launching a preemptive attack, using the most
foul of techniques to demean the other side for even
considering such tactics. They usurp what is decent and
leave it raped and bleeding in the trough of their
neofascist sty. They are so adept at distortion and
perversion that the truths they assault are no longer even
recognizable.

The proper term is "Democratic National Comittee"

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

OT--Dem sleaze tactics not working as planned.
 

moveon.org should be responsible enough to verify the accuracy of
their sources. Promoting anything which is not true opens them up for
all sorts of liability suits.

how do you verify the accuracy of an opinion? the entry into the ad contest
expressed an opinion. nothing more