I should have been more specific given some of the juvenile responses

You got that right! I've had the same thought considering the amount of
wood (structural, not decorative) I've found in my 3 year old "fiberglass"
boat.
Seems there's always a flamer hiding in the weeds.

Reading the posts feels so hopeless. So few do know what you're talking
about.
My boat sank 2 years ago. After removing the floor last year I discovered
that wood is almost gone. Now I wish that someone on the production line has
asked himself the question you are asking. In the era of composites I can't
believe we are talking about wood.
Strong? How long? Until the first crack. Durable? Yeah right. I've had
several boats and I know for a fact that wood is not a good material for
fiberglass boat. It has good properties when new, out of production line.
That's all. Feels solid. Yes, unless you encounter waves sweeping your deck.
Then the quiet process of rotting starts. And without your permission.
Exposed wood has a better chance to survive then the encapsulated one.
Moisture has nowhere to go but deeper inside... You have to be a complete
ignorant and moron not to know that.
Let's face it. Wood sucks big time. I would trade it anytime for composite
stringers or aluminum for that matter. Forget about leakproof laminating,
ask any boat repair shop what do they see if they have to fix a damage. They
are leakproof until first contact with water.
It is ridiculous that we can manufacture composite deck boards carrying
"guranteed forever" mark yet boats are still made with wood.
The only rationale is that manuf. know that well and they have no interest
in selling you the boat that will last you forever. That why there is no
"forever" car as well. The only positive element in this picture is that
stringers actually do not need wood after full cure. They take the load and
wood inside is a good addition but not 100% necessary. That's why many
rotten boats are OK to ride until you try to fix them up. Boat rigidity
stays the same because of the fiberglass around wodden stringers. That's
all. Ask experts. And if you don't know any better, do not post unnecessary
flame.


"stealth" wrote in message
news

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:41:36 -0500, stealth wrote:


I should have been more specific given some of the juvenile responses. I
was
speaking of the wood that is used in the structural coring, not the
aesthetic cabinetry/flooring. Wrapping fiberglass around wood that could
be
subject to seepage/leakage/rot may have been the best way twenty-five
years
ago, but with the low-cost composite type materials available on the
market
today, using wood in lieu of these composites doesn't make sense from a
layman point of view. And given the amount of surveys that show wood rot
in
coring areas, it would seem that not using wood would be a huge marketing
tool for the boat builder. As for the cost advantage, perhaps some of you
haven't seen the price of plywood lately! That said, if you wise guys
didn't
know the answer, all you had to do was just say so?



s

With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders still
use wood in the construction of their boats?

You get different characteristics depending on the material you select. There
is no perfect, flawless, material.

It's also tough to say "wood boat" and imply sort of a one-size-fits-all
concept.
Are we talking plywood, either sheathed or stitch and glue? Traditional plank
on frame? Cold molded? Even wood boat fans will argue bitterly about the
competing merits of various wood boat technologies.

Among the reasons people choose for wooden boats:

Quieter, warmer, hull. A more "solid" sensation.

Easier for many do-it-yourselfers to build, or assist in building.

Fewer environmental concerns with construction, use, and eventual disposal (the
initial harvest of trees notwithstanding).

When a boat is a one-off custom build, it is often less expensive to use wood
than to go through the process of creating a mold for a FRP hull.

As far as wood "rotting" when it is exposed to water, it's not as simple as
that. Sal****er actually preserves wood. Freshwater, (including rainwater)
promotes
the fungi that consume wood. Properly cared for, stored under cover, a wooden
boat can last for decades before major structural repairs are required.

Finally, a wooden boat is very repairable.
When a hull fails on a glass boat, it's likely due to a condition that effects
huge areas of the vessel. Wood boat owners aren't surprised to discover they
need to replace one or two planks during a routine haulout of an older wooden
boat- and do so without a lot of drama or catastrophic expense.

After a few decades, most wood boats will need to be "refastened", with new
screws installed to hold the planks to the frames.
This is a labor intensive job that doesn't require advanced journeyman level
skills, and many wood boat owners put aside a number of weekends to accomplish
the task without hiring help.

Wood boats are renewable. Sort of like the story of George Washington's axe. It
seems that somebody found the axe that Washington used to chop down the cherry
tree.....the handle had been replaced seven times over the years and it was on
its third blade, but by golly it was still the same axe. :-)

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders
still
use wood in the construction of their boats?

You get different characteristics depending on the material you select.
There
is no perfect, flawless, material.

It's also tough to say "wood boat" and imply sort of a one-size-fits-all
concept.
Are we talking plywood, either sheathed or stitch and glue? Traditional
plank
on frame? Cold molded? Even wood boat fans will argue bitterly about the
competing merits of various wood boat technologies.

Among the reasons people choose for wooden boats:

Quieter, warmer, hull. A more "solid" sensation.

Easier for many do-it-yourselfers to build, or assist in building.

Fewer environmental concerns with construction, use, and eventual disposal
(the
initial harvest of trees notwithstanding).

When a boat is a one-off custom build, it is often less expensive to use
wood
than to go through the process of creating a mold for a FRP hull.

As far as wood "rotting" when it is exposed to water, it's not as simple
as
that. Sal****er actually preserves wood. Freshwater, (including rainwater)
promotes
the fungi that consume wood. Properly cared for, stored under cover, a
wooden
boat can last for decades before major structural repairs are required.

Finally, a wooden boat is very repairable.
When a hull fails on a glass boat, it's likely due to a condition that
effects
huge areas of the vessel. Wood boat owners aren't surprised to discover
they
need to replace one or two planks during a routine haulout of an older
wooden
boat- and do so without a lot of drama or catastrophic expense.

After a few decades, most wood boats will need to be "refastened", with
new
screws installed to hold the planks to the frames.
This is a labor intensive job that doesn't require advanced journeyman
level
skills, and many wood boat owners put aside a number of weekends to
accomplish
the task without hiring help.

Wood boats are renewable. Sort of like the story of George Washington's
axe. It
seems that somebody found the axe that Washington used to chop down the
cherry
tree.....the handle had been replaced seven times over the years and it
was on
its third blade, but by golly it was still the same axe. :-)





I think the question is not why wooden boats, but why is wood still used in
GRP boats. Wood is one of the stronger materials for weight and does not
break like a lot of material under small flexing. Can be cheaper, and as
long as fresh water does not get to the wood, it lasts very well.
Bill

Cheap is the operative word. As to water not getting to it? It will spend
some portion of it's life sitting in water and probably most of it's life
outside. Properly laid up fiberglass would outlive a lot of us, the plywood
in the floor and transom will be long gone.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders
still
use wood in the construction of their boats?

You get different characteristics depending on the material you select.
There
is no perfect, flawless, material.

It's also tough to say "wood boat" and imply sort of a one-size-fits-all
concept.
Are we talking plywood, either sheathed or stitch and glue? Traditional
plank
on frame? Cold molded? Even wood boat fans will argue bitterly about the
competing merits of various wood boat technologies.

Among the reasons people choose for wooden boats:

Quieter, warmer, hull. A more "solid" sensation.

Easier for many do-it-yourselfers to build, or assist in building.

Fewer environmental concerns with construction, use, and eventual
disposal
(the
initial harvest of trees notwithstanding).

When a boat is a one-off custom build, it is often less expensive to use
wood
than to go through the process of creating a mold for a FRP hull.

As far as wood "rotting" when it is exposed to water, it's not as simple
as
that. Sal****er actually preserves wood. Freshwater, (including
rainwater)
promotes
the fungi that consume wood. Properly cared for, stored under cover, a
wooden
boat can last for decades before major structural repairs are required.

Finally, a wooden boat is very repairable.
When a hull fails on a glass boat, it's likely due to a condition that
effects
huge areas of the vessel. Wood boat owners aren't surprised to discover
they
need to replace one or two planks during a routine haulout of an older
wooden
boat- and do so without a lot of drama or catastrophic expense.

After a few decades, most wood boats will need to be "refastened", with
new
screws installed to hold the planks to the frames.
This is a labor intensive job that doesn't require advanced journeyman
level
skills, and many wood boat owners put aside a number of weekends to
accomplish
the task without hiring help.

Wood boats are renewable. Sort of like the story of George Washington's
axe. It
seems that somebody found the axe that Washington used to chop down the
cherry
tree.....the handle had been replaced seven times over the years and it
was on
its third blade, but by golly it was still the same axe. :-)





I think the question is not why wooden boats, but why is wood still used
in
GRP boats. Wood is one of the stronger materials for weight and does not
break like a lot of material under small flexing. Can be cheaper, and as
long as fresh water does not get to the wood, it lasts very well.
Bill

Actually, expensive boats use wood in structural members, where cost is not
the object. A 100% fiberglass transom, would probably be a lot thicker than
a cored transom, to get the same ability to handle the stress from a motor.
The non-wood transoms, such as a Davis Rock Harbor are still cored with
another material.
Bill

"Lawrence James" wrote in message
link.net...
Cheap is the operative word. As to water not getting to it? It will
spend
some portion of it's life sitting in water and probably most of it's life
outside. Properly laid up fiberglass would outlive a lot of us, the
plywood
in the floor and transom will be long gone.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders
still
use wood in the construction of their boats?

You get different characteristics depending on the material you
select.
There
is no perfect, flawless, material.

It's also tough to say "wood boat" and imply sort of a
one-size-fits-all
concept.
Are we talking plywood, either sheathed or stitch and glue?
Traditional
plank
on frame? Cold molded? Even wood boat fans will argue bitterly about
the
competing merits of various wood boat technologies.

Among the reasons people choose for wooden boats:

Quieter, warmer, hull. A more "solid" sensation.

Easier for many do-it-yourselfers to build, or assist in building.

Fewer environmental concerns with construction, use, and eventual
disposal
(the
initial harvest of trees notwithstanding).

When a boat is a one-off custom build, it is often less expensive to
use
wood
than to go through the process of creating a mold for a FRP hull.

As far as wood "rotting" when it is exposed to water, it's not as
simple
as
that. Sal****er actually preserves wood. Freshwater, (including
rainwater)
promotes
the fungi that consume wood. Properly cared for, stored under cover, a
wooden
boat can last for decades before major structural repairs are
required.

Finally, a wooden boat is very repairable.
When a hull fails on a glass boat, it's likely due to a condition that
effects
huge areas of the vessel. Wood boat owners aren't surprised to
discover
they
need to replace one or two planks during a routine haulout of an older
wooden
boat- and do so without a lot of drama or catastrophic expense.

After a few decades, most wood boats will need to be "refastened",
with
new
screws installed to hold the planks to the frames.
This is a labor intensive job that doesn't require advanced journeyman
level
skills, and many wood boat owners put aside a number of weekends to
accomplish
the task without hiring help.

Wood boats are renewable. Sort of like the story of George
Washington's
axe. It
seems that somebody found the axe that Washington used to chop down
the
cherry
tree.....the handle had been replaced seven times over the years and
it
was on
its third blade, but by golly it was still the same axe. :-)





I think the question is not why wooden boats, but why is wood still used
in
GRP boats. Wood is one of the stronger materials for weight and does
not
break like a lot of material under small flexing. Can be cheaper, and
as
long as fresh water does not get to the wood, it lasts very well.
Bill

"stealth" wrote in message
...
With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders
still
use wood in the construction of their boats? From a layman's point of
view,
it seems ludicrous to do so given that wood rots when exposed to water.


There are several reasons, and various arguments for and against them.

Consider the wood used in four different applications:

Structural: provides the basic strength of the hull, includes stringers,
ribs, beams, etc.

Fill: The interior of the deck, transom, sides, and bottom.

Backing: wood is commonly epoxied onto the back of the fiberglass so that
windows, deck plates, etc. can be fastened down with wood screws.

Appearance: usually teak, mahogany, etc. used in places it looks nice.


If it wasn't for the rotting issue, wood would be an ideal material. It is
flexible, relatively light weight and easy to work with. If you decide you
need to mount something at spot "A" you simply drill a hole there, apply
some sealer and mount your something with a wood screw.

The Flexibility of wood is a major issue for structural members. You can
take a boat with wood stringers and give it quite a beating without any
significant degradation. Replace those stringers with metal and you could
have all sorts of problems. Metal fatigue can lead to stress cracks and
complete failure. The fiberglass, which is flexible, may start to tear when
it is beat against the far less flexible beams.

For large areas, such as transoms, it is hard to beat the strength to weight
ratio of wood. Again, flexibility is a desired feature. You can't use a
material that might fracture.

There are boats being made that don't use any wood at all. Only time will
tell if they consistently provide more years of service or not.

Rod McInnis

Try KeyWestBoats Their motto is No Wood, No Rot


"stealth" wrote in message ...
With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders still
use wood in the construction of their boats? From a layman's point of view,
it seems ludicrous to do so given that wood rots when exposed to water.


s

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:14:34 +0000, Tom K wrote:

Try KeyWestBoats Their motto is No Wood, No Rot


"stealth" wrote in message ...
With today's technology and available materials, why do boat builders still
use wood in the construction of their boats? From a layman's point of view,
it seems ludicrous to do so given that wood rots when exposed to water.


Wood CAN rot when exposed to water, but there are lots of wooden boats
that are 40-50 years old still floating out there (a lot of Canada's West
Coast fishing fleet are wooden - mainly Yellow Cedar).

Also, when encapulated and used basically as "filler", it can last for
decades if done correctly.

So, as others have said, wood remains one of the best materials to
build boats with.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36: 20 yrs old, no rot in the wooden stringers.

On 1/6/2004 1:36 PM, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Wood CAN rot when exposed to water, but there are lots of wooden boats
that are 40-50 years old still floating out there (a lot of Canada's West
Coast fishing fleet are wooden - mainly Yellow Cedar).


You could probably count the total number of months my dad's Chris-Craft
has been *out* of the water on two hands, and she'll be 62 this year.

'Course, they used *real* woods like Indian mahogany back then, none of
this low-grade processed crud...

--
~/Garth