"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:41:36 -0500, stealth wrote:


I should have been more specific given some of the juvenile responses. I was
speaking of the wood that is used in the structural coring, not the
aesthetic cabinetry/flooring. Wrapping fiberglass around wood that could be
subject to seepage/leakage/rot may have been the best way twenty-five years
ago, but with the low-cost composite type materials available on the market
today, using wood in lieu of these composites doesn't make sense from a
layman point of view. And given the amount of surveys that show wood rot in
coring areas, it would seem that not using wood would be a huge marketing
tool for the boat builder. As for the cost advantage, perhaps some of you
haven't seen the price of plywood lately! That said, if you wise guys didn't
know the answer, all you had to do was just say so?



s

Calif Bill wrote:

He did ask! What is your answer? Why is wood used in modern boats made
with fiberglass?

And Larry answered very well. There isn't much need to supplement his
response except maybe to ask why, with such good digital and film
photography available, anyone would consider creating or purchasing a
painting.

Rick

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:24:15 GMT, "Lawrence James"
wrote:

Cheap is the operative word. As to water not getting to it? It will
spend
some portion of it's life sitting in water and probably most of it's life
outside. Properly laid up fiberglass would outlive a lot of us, the
plywood
in the floor and transom will be long gone.



Not necessarily. Some manufacturers have tried encapsulating other
products.... with mixed success. Boats are made of *something*
laminated on both sides because it gives strength and rigidity... not
unlike case hardened steel. A solid fiberglass boat would just be too
heavy. There is a company near Raleigh, NC making rotomolded boats if
you want to boat in a milk bottle. I guess that wouldn't rot, but
somehow, that doesn't appeal to me as much as wood, which if properly
encapsulated, will outlast both of us....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide




Do not knock rotomolded. My Ocean Kayak as well as most other yaks are
rotomolded. Makes a nice boat. Other than my canoe, do not own any glass
boats. Couple of aluminum.
Bill

I should have been more specific given some of the juvenile responses

You got that right! I've had the same thought considering the amount of
wood (structural, not decorative) I've found in my 3 year old "fiberglass"
boat.
Seems there's always a flamer hiding in the weeds.

Lawrence James wrote:
He might be asking about the use of wood in fiberglass boats, rather than
wood boats. Commonly the use of plywood for floors, transoms, and interior
pieces. As to the why, it's because plywood is cheap.


And wood in general is strong. Properly installed wood substructure
(encapsolated stringers etc) will last a good long time. The problem of
course is if water does get under the encapsolation.

My stringers are pressure treated fur that is encapsolated. Time will
tell how it will last in the long run. Much will depend on how I care
for the boat. But I do not fear it will fail any time soon. One might
guess that a poorly made fibreglass stringer system may develope cracks
over time. I am sure one properly built will last a lifetime. As will a
well built substructure made of wood.

Capt Jack R..

Reading the posts feels so hopeless. So few do know what you're talking
about.
My boat sank 2 years ago. After removing the floor last year I discovered
that wood is almost gone. Now I wish that someone on the production line has
asked himself the question you are asking. In the era of composites I can't
believe we are talking about wood.
Strong? How long? Until the first crack. Durable? Yeah right. I've had
several boats and I know for a fact that wood is not a good material for
fiberglass boat. It has good properties when new, out of production line.
That's all. Feels solid. Yes, unless you encounter waves sweeping your deck.
Then the quiet process of rotting starts. And without your permission.
Exposed wood has a better chance to survive then the encapsulated one.
Moisture has nowhere to go but deeper inside... You have to be a complete
ignorant and moron not to know that.
Let's face it. Wood sucks big time. I would trade it anytime for composite
stringers or aluminum for that matter. Forget about leakproof laminating,
ask any boat repair shop what do they see if they have to fix a damage. They
are leakproof until first contact with water.
It is ridiculous that we can manufacture composite deck boards carrying
"guranteed forever" mark yet boats are still made with wood.
The only rationale is that manuf. know that well and they have no interest
in selling you the boat that will last you forever. That why there is no
"forever" car as well. The only positive element in this picture is that
stringers actually do not need wood after full cure. They take the load and
wood inside is a good addition but not 100% necessary. That's why many
rotten boats are OK to ride until you try to fix them up. Boat rigidity
stays the same because of the fiberglass around wodden stringers. That's
all. Ask experts. And if you don't know any better, do not post unnecessary
flame.


"stealth" wrote in message
news

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:41:36 -0500, stealth wrote:


I should have been more specific given some of the juvenile responses. I
was
speaking of the wood that is used in the structural coring, not the
aesthetic cabinetry/flooring. Wrapping fiberglass around wood that could
be
subject to seepage/leakage/rot may have been the best way twenty-five
years
ago, but with the low-cost composite type materials available on the
market
today, using wood in lieu of these composites doesn't make sense from a
layman point of view. And given the amount of surveys that show wood rot
in
coring areas, it would seem that not using wood would be a huge marketing
tool for the boat builder. As for the cost advantage, perhaps some of you
haven't seen the price of plywood lately! That said, if you wise guys
didn't
know the answer, all you had to do was just say so?



s

Encapsulated in poly resin, not epoxy, right? I suggest you do some
research on the water permeability of various resins and you'll discover
that your stringers will eventually get wet.

"Jack Redington" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Lawrence James wrote:
He might be asking about the use of wood in fiberglass boats, rather
than
wood boats. Commonly the use of plywood for floors, transoms, and
interior
pieces. As to the why, it's because plywood is cheap.


And wood in general is strong. Properly installed wood substructure
(encapsolated stringers etc) will last a good long time. The problem of
course is if water does get under the encapsolation.

My stringers are pressure treated fur that is encapsolated. Time will
tell how it will last in the long run. Much will depend on how I care
for the boat. But I do not fear it will fail any time soon. One might
guess that a poorly made fibreglass stringer system may develope cracks
over time. I am sure one properly built will last a lifetime. As will a
well built substructure made of wood.

Capt Jack R..

And you are 100% right in your assumption. Encapsulated wood is a timebomb
waiting to go off. Everybody knows that.
Woodden boats is a different story, wood is exposed and can go through its
natural cycle. That is why it lasts longer


"Lawrence James" wrote in message
hlink.net...
The point of my link to the article was to support my statement that
polyester resin is not water proof. You won't find that I have suggested
that foam core is a good idea. I recognize that salt water can act as a
preservative. But what I see is that many boats are built with plywood.
In
the floor and transom. Some even use encapsulated plywood for stringer
grids. Many will get wet from rain water, not sea water. Not all, but
plenty of them will evetually suffer rot in these areas. So I see nothing
good about using plywood to build fiberglass boats.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:58:41 GMT, "Lawrence James"
wrote:

Here's an article on blisters that explains why poly resin is not water
proof. And that is what they are encapsulating stringers and transoms
with.
They will not outlast very many of us. Take a drill to any boat over
10
years old and you'll find the stringers are wet.

http://www.marine-surveyor.com/newsletters/9803.html



Your stated article certainly does not prove your point. First of
all, according to the article, only 25% of boats will ever blister, of
those, only some will have severe blistering. The article points out
that the likelihood of blistering is predicated on quality of
construction and quantity of materials employed. Thus, cheapness in
construction is more likely evidenced by the FRP methods and
engineering.

You assumption seems to be that if wood gets wet it immediately rots.
Wrong assumption for us coastwise boaters.

Would you applaud SeaRay for construction using foam? Thin gelcoat,
thin resin, and soggy foam? This is better?

Actually, this article spells out the fact that the FRP itself is
being degraded by water..... predictable position when one considers
the source was sales material by a resin/cloth/&associated retailer.

Assuming your position is true, look at your local marina and predict
how many of the boats there are rotten and unsafe......

Oh... and I have taken a drill to my 18 year old FRP boat and it is
*not* wet..... no blisters, either.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time
Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Steel, aluminum and composites plus better designs, in short (let's not
forget fiberglass... he he).


"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:37:05 GMT, "Lawrence James"
wrote:

The point of my link to the article was to support my statement that
polyester resin is not water proof. You won't find that I have suggested
that foam core is a good idea. I recognize that salt water can act as a
preservative. But what I see is that many boats are built with plywood.
In
the floor and transom. Some even use encapsulated plywood for stringer
grids. Many will get wet from rain water, not sea water. Not all, but
plenty of them will evetually suffer rot in these areas. So I see
nothing
good about using plywood to build fiberglass boats.


Ok... I'll bite.... what is the panacea for boat building?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 23:53:40 GMT, "Proxy"
wrote:

Steel, aluminum and composites plus better designs, in short (let's not
forget fiberglass... he he).


Steel = Rust
Aluminum = Corrosion

Fiberglass = a composite? = lots of weight

Encapsulated steel will last you forever (Eiffel Tower still standing by the
way, so is The Empire State Building).
Aluminum corrosion is not a factor as it also protects (unlike rust).
Imagine steel frame inside the composite stringers (0 rust due to 100%
adhesion steel-resin(versus 0% adhesion of rotten,moist wood-resin), hey
that is used in a car repair remember?). Composite deck reinforced with
steel net. Weight loss maybe 30-40 kG. No mold, mildew. 0 maintenance. You
get a solid boat and at a cost of additional 1000$ (about 3% of a new boat
price, considering most popular 20 foot bowrider as a benchmark). Tell me
what is wrong with that picture? Maybe I'm dreaming but that IS possible and
could be a reality. How do I know? I replaced rotten stringers with
composite ones in my boat (my project and construction) last summer. Cost
200$.




--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide