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Owner Feedback VCP , CD , P&H
I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a
couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. I would also like owner feedback on a Walden Passage, unrelated to the above boats. Interested for general fooling around usage in addition to one of the above. Thanks! |
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#3
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Vee wrote:
I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. I would also like owner feedback on a Walden Passage, unrelated to the above boats. Interested for general fooling around usage in addition to one of the above. Thanks! For reference, I currently own a Pintail, an Anas Acuta and a Bestsie Bay Aral. I've previously owned a Passage, a Nordkapp HM, a fiberglass BBK Recluse and a Nigel Foster Silhouette (European built). I've also built three Greenland style skin-on-frame kayaks. I've paddled a Skerray RM (not the RMX) for two weeks in Shetland and have demoed the Capella and the Gulfstream, which is the Sirocco's fiberglass "brother". I'm 6' tall and ~170# (currently 165#). The kayaks on your list are very different boats. The Passage is at the crossover point between recreational boats and true sea kayaks. It's pretty capable in rough water, but it's a too short, too wide and a bit too stable to be optimum. It's also rather slow, which can be a real handicap on longer days. It tracks moderately strongly compared to the others. It's a great boat for what it is and it served me well. If its size and capabilities suit your needs, it would be a good choice. The Skerray is a very maneuverable boat, essentially a "plastic Pintail". It's very confidence inspiring in rough water and seems to be a bit faster than a Pintail. It's definitely faster than a Passage and feels far more "spirited". I like the boat a lot. I would own one for teaching and rock play if I could justify buying another boat. The Capella feels very well made and has one of the stiffest plastic hulls on the market. Like the Skerray, it's very maneuverable, but I found that it weathercocked badly, to the point that the skeg could not correct it fully. Perhaps your experience has been different. I don't think it's as stable as the Skerray, but I paddled the boats a couple of years apart, so I can't say for certain. The Gulfstream/Scirocco is a bit of a tub, IMO. It's well built, but it's slow and somewhat ponderous feeling to me, probably because the cockpit is excessively roomy for someone my size. It tracks reasonably well and turns well on edge, but it just feels too big. Depending on your size and personal preferences, you may feel entirely differently than I do about these boats. I originally favored strong tracking boats, but now prefer more maneuverable craft, so consider my opinions in that context. |
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#4
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Brian Nystrom wrote in news:0K8rd.76575$7i4.55243
@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: Vee wrote: I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. The kayaks on your list are very different boats. The Passage is at the crossover point between recreational boats and true sea kayaks. It's pretty capable in rough water, but it's a too short, too wide and a bit too stable to be optimum. It's also rather slow, which can be a real handicap on longer days. It tracks moderately strongly compared to the others. It's a great boat for what it is and it served me well. If its size and capabilities suit your needs, it would be a good choice. Good description of the Passage. It's also worth mentioning that it's probably the shortest boat on the market that comes equipped with a skeg. I found that it tracks reasonably well without the skeg deployed but improves considerabled when dropped. Unlike another boat I won't mention the Passage is a boat that has been made better with the addition of the skeg. The Skerray is a very maneuverable boat, essentially a "plastic Pintail". It's very confidence inspiring in rough water and seems to be a bit faster than a Pintail. It's definitely faster than a Passage and feels far more "spirited". I like the boat a lot. I would own one for teaching and rock play if I could justify buying another boat. What a terrific assessment of the Skerray, though the Skerray RM is actually essentially a plastic Skerray. "Spirited" is a very good description of how it paddles. It's just a fun boat to paddle. Do you really think the Skerray (I assume you mean the composite version) is faster than a Pintail? I have used mine for teaching and it's a good fit for that, although when I'm demonstrating sweep turns or low brace turns I often feeling like I'm cheating because it's so easy. I often have to explain to students that my boat has a lot to do with how effective the turning strokes are. Would you be interested in a fiberglass version with an ocean cockpit? I've considered selling mine (but always change my mind when I get out and paddle it again) and might consider selling it to someone I know would appreciate it. |
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#5
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John Fereira wrote:
Brian Nystrom wrote in news:0K8rd.76575$7i4.55243 @bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: Vee wrote: I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. The kayaks on your list are very different boats. The Passage is at the crossover point between recreational boats and true sea kayaks. It's pretty capable in rough water, but it's a too short, too wide and a bit too stable to be optimum. It's also rather slow, which can be a real handicap on longer days. It tracks moderately strongly compared to the others. It's a great boat for what it is and it served me well. If its size and capabilities suit your needs, it would be a good choice. Good description of the Passage. It's also worth mentioning that it's probably the shortest boat on the market that comes equipped with a skeg. I found that it tracks reasonably well without the skeg deployed but improves considerabled when dropped. Unlike another boat I won't mention the Passage is a boat that has been made better with the addition of the skeg. The Skerray is a very maneuverable boat, essentially a "plastic Pintail". It's very confidence inspiring in rough water and seems to be a bit faster than a Pintail. It's definitely faster than a Passage and feels far more "spirited". I like the boat a lot. I would own one for teaching and rock play if I could justify buying another boat. What a terrific assessment of the Skerray, though the Skerray RM is actually essentially a plastic Skerray. "Spirited" is a very good description of how it paddles. It's just a fun boat to paddle. Do you really think the Skerray (I assume you mean the composite version) is faster than a Pintail? Actually, I was referring to the Skerray RM and yes, it seems a bit faster, but perhaps it's just that I consider my Pintail to be a real pig on flat water. It's the best rough water boat I've ever paddled and I wouldn't want to be without a pre-'95 Pintail in the "fleet", but it's drudgery to paddle when it's dead-flat-calm and I'm trying to keep up with other paddlers in higher performance boats. As you know, it pretty much "hits a wall" at around 4 knots. I have to admit that I've never paddled these boats back to back, so perhaps I'm mistaken about the speed difference. I have used mine for teaching and it's a good fit for that, although when I'm demonstrating sweep turns or low brace turns I often feeling like I'm cheating because it's so easy. I often have to explain to students that my boat has a lot to do with how effective the turning strokes are. Fun, isn't it? That's why I use my Pintail for instructing. My first instructor (when I was paddling the Passage) paddled a Skerray and I just assumed that the difference in our abilities was all a matter of skill. Little did I know that he was cheating... Would you be interested in a fiberglass version with an ocean cockpit? I've considered selling mine (but always change my mind when I get out and paddle it again) and might consider selling it to someone I know would appreciate it. I should hate you for tempting me like that! ;-) Actually, there wouldn't be much point in my getting a 'glass Skerray, since it wouldn't be much different from the Pintail. I would like to have an RM for teaching and rock bashing, and had a line on one a while back, but I just can't swing it right now. |
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#6
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Brian Nystrom wrote in
: John Fereira wrote: Brian Nystrom wrote in news:0K8rd.76575$7i4.55243 @bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: Vee wrote: I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. The kayaks on your list are very different boats. The Passage is at the crossover point between recreational boats and true sea kayaks. It's pretty capable in rough water, but it's a too short, too wide and a bit too stable to be optimum. It's also rather slow, which can be a real handicap on longer days. It tracks moderately strongly compared to the others. It's a great boat for what it is and it served me well. If its size and capabilities suit your needs, it would be a good choice. Good description of the Passage. It's also worth mentioning that it's probably the shortest boat on the market that comes equipped with a skeg. I found that it tracks reasonably well without the skeg deployed but improves considerabled when dropped. Unlike another boat I won't mention the Passage is a boat that has been made better with the addition of the skeg. The Skerray is a very maneuverable boat, essentially a "plastic Pintail". It's very confidence inspiring in rough water and seems to be a bit faster than a Pintail. It's definitely faster than a Passage and feels far more "spirited". I like the boat a lot. I would own one for teaching and rock play if I could justify buying another boat. What a terrific assessment of the Skerray, though the Skerray RM is actually essentially a plastic Skerray. "Spirited" is a very good description of how it paddles. It's just a fun boat to paddle. Do you really think the Skerray (I assume you mean the composite version) is faster than a Pintail? Actually, I was referring to the Skerray RM and yes, it seems a bit faster, but perhaps it's just that I consider my Pintail to be a real pig on flat water. It's the best rough water boat I've ever paddled and I wouldn't want to be without a pre-'95 Pintail in the "fleet", but it's drudgery to paddle when it's dead-flat-calm and I'm trying to keep up with other paddlers in higher performance boats. As you know, it pretty much "hits a wall" at around 4 knots. I have to admit that I've never paddled these boats back to back, so perhaps I'm mistaken about the speed difference. Could be. Some boats just "feel" faster. When I built my Outer Island I knew it was supposed to be a fast boat and I could easily tell that it was quick but I didn't realize how efficient it was at higher speeds until I was paddling with a friend of mine that's a strong paddler. When he's in his Artic Hawk I always struggled to keep up him over longer distances but in the OI I felt like I was just cruising and he wasn't pulling away from me as he normally would. Would you be interested in a fiberglass version with an ocean cockpit? I've considered selling mine (but always change my mind when I get out and paddle it again) and might consider selling it to someone I know would appreciate it. I should hate you for tempting me like that! ;-) Actually, there wouldn't be much point in my getting a 'glass Skerray, since it wouldn't be much different from the Pintail. I would like to have an RM for teaching and rock bashing, and had a line on one a while back, but I just can't swing it right now. That's actually my primary motivation for selling it. There are some pretty nice RM boats coming out these days and I wouldn't mind having something that would take the abuse of teaching and running a few big rivers like the Delaware. On the the other hand, for a glass boat the Skerray (and a Pintail) can take quite a beating. According to the serial number in mine it's 14 years old. |
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#7
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Vee wrote: I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. I would also like owner feedback on a Walden Passage, unrelated to the above boats. Interested for general fooling around usage in addition to one of the above. Thanks! |
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#8
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John Fereira wrote:
Brian Nystrom wrote in : John Fereira wrote: Brian Nystrom wrote in news:0K8rd.76575$7i4.55243 @bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: Vee wrote: I am buying my first kayak but have been renting and demoing for a couple of years. I have narrowed my choices to 3 similar boats. I am very interested in hearing from those that own or have used these boats for a period of time. The boats are VCP Skerray RMX, CD Sirocco, and P&H Cappella 166 RM. The kayaks on your list are very different boats. The Passage is at the crossover point between recreational boats and true sea kayaks. It's pretty capable in rough water, but it's a too short, too wide and a bit too stable to be optimum. It's also rather slow, which can be a real handicap on longer days. It tracks moderately strongly compared to the others. It's a great boat for what it is and it served me well. If its size and capabilities suit your needs, it would be a good choice. Good description of the Passage. It's also worth mentioning that it's probably the shortest boat on the market that comes equipped with a skeg. I found that it tracks reasonably well without the skeg deployed but improves considerabled when dropped. Unlike another boat I won't mention the Passage is a boat that has been made better with the addition of the skeg. The Skerray is a very maneuverable boat, essentially a "plastic Pintail". It's very confidence inspiring in rough water and seems to be a bit faster than a Pintail. It's definitely faster than a Passage and feels far more "spirited". I like the boat a lot. I would own one for teaching and rock play if I could justify buying another boat. What a terrific assessment of the Skerray, though the Skerray RM is actually essentially a plastic Skerray. "Spirited" is a very good description of how it paddles. It's just a fun boat to paddle. Do you really think the Skerray (I assume you mean the composite version) is faster than a Pintail? Actually, I was referring to the Skerray RM and yes, it seems a bit faster, but perhaps it's just that I consider my Pintail to be a real pig on flat water. It's the best rough water boat I've ever paddled and I wouldn't want to be without a pre-'95 Pintail in the "fleet", but it's drudgery to paddle when it's dead-flat-calm and I'm trying to keep up with other paddlers in higher performance boats. As you know, it pretty much "hits a wall" at around 4 knots. I have to admit that I've never paddled these boats back to back, so perhaps I'm mistaken about the speed difference. Could be. Some boats just "feel" faster. When I built my Outer Island I knew it was supposed to be a fast boat and I could easily tell that it was quick but I didn't realize how efficient it was at higher speeds until I was paddling with a friend of mine that's a strong paddler. When he's in his Artic Hawk I always struggled to keep up him over longer distances but in the OI I felt like I was just cruising and he wasn't pulling away from me as he normally would. I have OI plans and will eventually get around to building one. After paddling the fiberglass version recently, I was reminded of how great a boat it is. That's definitely got me more psyched about building it. Would you be interested in a fiberglass version with an ocean cockpit? I've considered selling mine (but always change my mind when I get out and paddle it again) and might consider selling it to someone I know would appreciate it. I should hate you for tempting me like that! ;-) Actually, there wouldn't be much point in my getting a 'glass Skerray, since it wouldn't be much different from the Pintail. I would like to have an RM for teaching and rock bashing, and had a line on one a while back, but I just can't swing it right now. That's actually my primary motivation for selling it. There are some pretty nice RM boats coming out these days and I wouldn't mind having something that would take the abuse of teaching and running a few big rivers like the Delaware. On the the other hand, for a glass boat the Skerray (and a Pintail) can take quite a beating. According to the serial number in mine it's 14 years old. My Pintail is a '93. It was rough when I bought it and it's taken plenty of abuse since then. It's held up remarkably well, needing only a bit of gelcoat work. |
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#9
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Thanks to both of you. From your feedback I surmise that the Skerray
would be the best choice but the Walden Passage is a good boat until I figure out what I want be when I grow up. I live in W.NY and my initial usage will probably be a mix of finger lakes, small rivers and the canal. These trips will probably be evenings after work, 1/2 day Saturdays and a rare overnight. I have not tried the Passage but will attempt to locate one. I have tried the smaller Waldens at Bay Creek but found the deck height too low to get comfortable. I don't have any rolling skills so the mention that it rolls well was encouraging because i was concerned about the width 24". I am in my 50's , 5'10 ,190# and size 10 shoes. Fit has been the issue with some other boats. I tried a CD Squamish and it felt tight that's why I asked about the Sirocco. Based on price the Passage is a winner and if $ were not an issue to the Skerray would be the way to go? My concern is probably the same as other first time buyers afraid to buy too low or too much for our beginning usage. Thanks for sharing your experience. |
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#10
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In a previous article, "vee" said:
attempt to locate one. I have tried the smaller Waldens at Bay Creek but found the deck height too low to get comfortable. I don't have any If you're paddling at Bay Creek (I assume you mean the one in Irondequoit Creek?), don't judge the Skerray RMX by the yellow one they rent out. I was paddling that one about twice a week this summer. I bought a brand new one that they had on the racks at their end-of-year sale, and while it handles about the same, it had a much better seat, much better thigh pads and the skeg is controlled by a slider (much like the rental Avocets) instead of the rope brake. Oh, and the plastic doesn't cut into your hands when you pick it up by the cockpit. The yellow Skerray was a trade-in, and evidently the previous owner customized it by ripping out the coaming(? is that the term?) that goes around the inside of the cockpit so that he could put in his own thigh pads. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ The software said it requires Windows 95 or better, so I installed Linux |
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