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Boater operator certificate
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? These things are always noble experiments that go totally awry because the government does it. Political pressures from the boat industry will dumb this thing down to nothing more than another tax. |
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon Where did you hear that? As far as I know, there is no proposal to require a license to boat. A group called WAMBE (Washington Alliance for Mandatory Boater Education) has drafted a bill that would eventually require anybody operating a boat powered by more than 10HP to carry a card that certifies they have completed a very basic boating safety course. At this point, they are still looking for a legislator to sponsor it. Similar proposals have died in committee during each of the last several legislative sessions, so there is no big push on "by the State of Washington" to pass this proposal. Even if the proposal passes, there are some important differences between a boating safety education card and a "license". To begin with, a license has to be renewed at regular intervals, and a fee is customarily collected at each renewal. The boating safety education card, once issued, is good for the life of the card holder and never needs to be renewed. Another major difference between a license and a boating safety card is that the court system can revoke a license if somebody misbehaves while pursuing the activity permitted by the license. The proposition drafted by WAMBE calls for a card that is irrevocable, as it should. One either has acquired the knowledge represented by the card, or has not, and future errors, accidents, or crimes won't change the fact that the card holder completed the minimum education requirements. The proposal sets the fee for obtaining the card at $15. This is not an annual fee, but a once-in-a-lifetime expense to offset the cost of adding a boater to the database and issuing a card. The only other fee a boater might be faced with is a similar charge to replace a card that gets lost or stolen. I don't know about others, but $15 just about pays the sales tax on one of my regular visits to the marine supply store. A lot of guys burn $15 worth of gas in a matter of minutes. The state isn't going to wind up with a huge slush fund processing applications and issuing cards at $15 each, and in the grand scheme of boat expenses $15 might as well be $zero. One of the reasons previous proposals have died is that some of them didn't have a funding provision built in. The $15 is supposed to correct that. Qualifying to carry the card is extremely easy. Anybody who has passed a course such as "Boat Smart" or any other short, introductory safety course offered by the USCGA or a Power Squadron need only present a their certificate of completion, from any time in the past, and they will be issued a card. Those who have been boating for a number of years and are confident that they have a good body of knowledge about boating safety do *not* have to sit through several sessions where an Auxiliary or Squadron instructor lectures on the diffrences between the types of PFD's, the dangers of hypothermia, basic equipment requirements, etc. There is a provision for a "challenge" test, rather than attending a formal class. Those who can pass a challenge test demonstrating that they know as much as the graduates of an elementary, introductory safety class never need to set foot in a classroom. Those who *cannot* pass such a test belong in the classroom, IMO. If the bill passes next year, the boating public will be required to comply by age groups. The youngest boaters will have to comply right away. Boaters who are currently at or approaching retirement age will have until 2016 to acquire a card. |
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:12:02 GMT, "Gordon" wrote:
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Canada recently brought in a licensing requirement. The red tape and operator cost has been negligible as it is a one time license without a renewal requirement. The big plus is that kids under 16 can no longer legally drive jet skis. However, the rules don't seem to prevent a couple of inexperienced 19 year olds from legally renting one *right now* on some kind of provisional license. I think it's a good thing, if only because it makes it clear one should have some qualification before jumping into a boat and hitting the throttle. The testing is so simple that anybody should be able to get one after reading the Coast Guard Safety Brochure, so it is not much of a hurdle to clear. Quite possibly the bar should be higher. Ryk |
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:12:02 GMT, "Gordon" wrote:
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance About 11 years ago, a PWC/Boat accident on the CT river in Haddam resulted in the legislature over reacting and passing the "Water Vehicle Safety Act" or something like that requiring a Safe Boating Certificate - basically a license. As usual in this state, the system is totally furbared. If you own a PWC and a boat, you have to take one class to a combination certificate, if you only own a PWC you have to have a PWC certificate or only own a boat you have to have a boating certificate. The best part is that the syllabus for all three state approved courses are identical. The state only accepts USCG, USPS and a couple of other "certificates" as a substitute for the state course. Oddly enough, those certificates are good for both PWC and Boat certificates, but not the state course. You couldn't make up a dumber, lameass system if you tried. Does it work improving safety? Maybe. The PWC operators I see are just as arrogant and stupid as ever, the boaters are just as stupid and arrogant as ever so I guess not. I know it hasn't decreased the accident rate any. Later, Tom |
It's a friggin 20 buck tax grab with a ridiculous exam that proves nothing
regarding operator competency! You now need one despite the fact you might have a Master/Minor Waters certification. It's ridiculous. CM "Ryk" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:12:02 GMT, "Gordon" wrote: Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Canada recently brought in a licensing requirement. The red tape and operator cost has been negligible as it is a one time license without a renewal requirement. The big plus is that kids under 16 can no longer legally drive jet skis. However, the rules don't seem to prevent a couple of inexperienced 19 year olds from legally renting one *right now* on some kind of provisional license. I think it's a good thing, if only because it makes it clear one should have some qualification before jumping into a boat and hitting the throttle. The testing is so simple that anybody should be able to get one after reading the Coast Guard Safety Brochure, so it is not much of a hurdle to clear. Quite possibly the bar should be higher. Ryk |
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... It's a friggin 20 buck tax grab with a ridiculous exam that proves nothing regarding operator competency! You now need one despite the fact you might have a Master/Minor Waters certification. It's ridiculous. CM It might keep those rum guzzlin' characters from terrorizing decent sailing folk in Mahone Bay......then again maybe not! |
Just another tax.
-- Keith __ ....at least I thought I was dancing, 'til somebody stepped on my hand. "Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:07:36 -0500, Ryk
wrote: I think it's a good thing, if only because it makes it clear one should have some qualification before jumping into a boat and hitting the throttle. The testing is so simple that anybody should be able to get one after reading the Coast Guard Safety Brochure, so it is not much of a hurdle to clear. Quite possibly the bar should be higher. I am also in Toronto, Canada, and got my certificate in the context of Canadian Power Squadron courses. Not a bad thing, and the red tape is minimal. While you can just "sit the test" without prior instruction, the advent of this licencing requirement is getting more people into Power Squadron courses, which is gradually upping the knowledge level of recreational boaters generally, or so it appears to me. At least it's no longer "zero". R. |
"the court system can revoke a license if somebody misbehaves while pursuing the activity permitted by the license. " I know of a few marriage licenses that need revoking.... |
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... It's a friggin 20 buck tax grab with a ridiculous exam that proves nothing regarding operator competency! You now need one despite the fact you might have a Master/Minor Waters certification. It's ridiculous. CM It might keep those rum guzzlin' characters from terrorizing decent sailing folk in Mahone Bay......then again maybe not! They're safe now..... Overproof is laying to her cradle..... in the parking lot of the local bar! :-D CM |
It may be so in your area but I can assure you all CYS courses were booked
solid years ago when I took my courses. I paid out of pocket with no hesitation for these courses. What ****es me off the most is that even though the certification automatically assures me an operator's card... I still have to pay the additional $20. This card is no more than a tax grab. I know lots of people who have folks write the test for them online and then pay their fee only to have no clue about boating safety. The card is a scam.... it won't hold up in court. CM "rhys" wrote in message I am also in Toronto, Canada, and got my certificate in the context of Canadian Power Squadron courses. Not a bad thing, and the red tape is minimal. While you can just "sit the test" without prior instruction, the advent of this licencing requirement is getting more people into Power Squadron courses, which is gradually upping the knowledge level of recreational boaters generally, or so it appears to me. At least it's no longer "zero". R. |
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:01:42 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... It's a friggin 20 buck tax grab with a ridiculous exam that proves nothing regarding operator competency! You now need one despite the fact you might have a Master/Minor Waters certification. Actually, the regulations require only that one carry proof of competency on board and recognize e.g. a CPS diploma as adequate proof of competency in lieu of a license. Ryk |
The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach anyone
how to operate a boat. There is also the problem that it is a lot different aiming a jon boat across the lake and handling a 40' cruiser offshore but both are covered in the same course. You only need to sit near the dock at a waterfront resturant (or any ramp) and watch the boats come and go to see the problem. |
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road?
"Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
In article ,
Ed C wrote: Did a license ever stop an accident on the road? I'm sure it has, but I don't think it's appropriate or feasible for boats. It's just a tax. Cars require a test, minimal though it is. -- Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m) http://www.sailnow.com "If there's no wind, row." |
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road?
I'm sure it has, but I don't think it's appropriate or feasible for boats. It's just a tax. Cars require a test, minimal though it is. Driver's licenses are just a tax too, along with being the defacto national ID card. In my state you can renew by mail pretty much after you are dead. My mom was 86 when she mailed in her 4th 6 year renewal, from a nursing home and she died before it arrived. The picture on my license looks like my high school yearbook and there are so many renewal stickers on it I have a hard time getting in in the wallet slot. They still cash my checks tho. |
The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach anyone
how to operate a boat. I very much agree. However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to know them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat. When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign was and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the road. That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't enough to turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few disasters caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived "right" to boat in ignorance. |
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road?
It can be logically assumed that there are fewer accidents when (most) drivers have met a minimal standard for knowledge of laws and traffic safety than there would be if everybody able to afford a car was allowed to head out onto the freeway without meeting any standards at all. |
However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to
know them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat. My problem is not that we should have requirements to operate a boat. I think the car model is not stringent enough for operating a boat. I think the boat license should be closer to the FAA license than the driver's license. You will never get that past the dealers who want every Popeye wannabe to be in the biggest, fastest boat he can afford. There should be different categories of operator license based on training and experience. It borders on criminal that any bozo with good credit can go buy a 30' boat that goes 60 MPH and run it offshore straight from the dealer without a minute of training. |
The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach anyone
how to operate a boat. Well, FWIW it seems that way to me, too, but this begs the question "how does anybody ever learn to operate a boat then?" Gould 0738 wrote: I very much agree. However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to know them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat. No course is ever going to instill a basic familiarity with the laws of physics and some common sense. When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign was and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the road. That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't enough to turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few disasters caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived "right" to boat in ignorance. The main thing these courses need to drive into the skulls of newbie boaters is 1- It's easier to screw up than you think 2- if you screw up, it will probably hurt. A lot. 2- if you hurt somebody else or damage their boat, they get to break all your leg & ankle bones. Slowly. And it will definitely hurt. A lot. It's not quite down to the one sentence minimum, but it covers all the bases nicely. Fair Skies Doug King |
Ed C wrote:
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road? Jeese louise I'd say yes:-) Here downunder we've had boat drivers licenses in most states almost forever. It varies from state to state, some only for boats "capable" of exceeding 10 kts, some only for boats over 10HP & some for all "powered craft" Also in some you need a special exam & license to drive a jetski (mongrel things:-)). The test requirements vary from state to state also, most have a computerised theory test, which is fairly OK & means people have the basics & at least some understanding of various lights (fishing boats with nets, dredges, big ships right of way in designated channels etc), colours & channel marking systems, plus anchoring & mooring etc, also it stresses safety gear compliance. At least one state you have to also sit a boat test after the theory test i.e. they have licensed professional testers, you meet them where ever, they check the boat then go for a run asking certain handling tests be achieved, again it's not perfect but better than nothing at all that lets just about any dopey nuff nuff go & kill his/her family or worse mine. I have to admit the govt does milk it for funds, but they claim this helps defray police & rescue costs, maybe but ....... The very few places that were late getting licenses found people just paid the fines & didn't care, but when they might lose their license to operate then they take notice, also & this is great I say:-) they have a crossover, get done on the breathalyser in the boat & you lose both car & boat licenses for the specified time. K "Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
Oregon phased one end some years ago requiring at least a rudimentary
knowledge of Colregs. Each state that has this varies in it's requirements and none require a demonstration of ability. In the USA the ability to drive or operate or sail a boat rests largely with the individual. For most that means buy the boat and tear the tab off the Budweiser at one end of the spectrum to the barely adequate ASA certification. The ASA cert's main and only purpose purports to be an assurance of basic skills prior to renting out (charter is the fancy term) a boat. In practice it's main reason for existence is to make money as it's required even of those who hold real licenses (100 ton and up). At that point it becomes and unecessary and expensive review of minimal skills. For most though it's the only training they will ever receive so it falls in the better than nothing but not by much category. The nation wide licensing begins with the 100 ton examination which strangely enough requires no practical examination. One only has to own a boat and then lists "as owner" days of sea time for themselves as "crew". However most who take the exam and apply for the license have invested enough time, money, and energy they 'usually' have a working practical knowledge of some sort. There ends the US system which may fairly be described for the vast majority on the water as Buy Boat, Buy GPS, Go Boating. Counterpoint is the British system which if far and away superior. The entry level is a written and practical examination called Competent Crew and it works up to the Offshore Skippers Certification. Licensing does not stop all accidents but the lack of any real licensing or examination of ability certainly contributes to the amount of accidents, injuries, drownings, and deaths on the water. Washington is making a needed step in the right direction. The problem is it's not the right Washington for a nationwide problem. M. "Ed C" wrote in message news:ikxmd.2939$CK.868@twister ..nyroc.rr.com... Did a license ever stop an accident on the road? "Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
Gould,
The insurance companies agree with you. They have found those who take the safety courses are less likely to have an accident. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach anyone how to operate a boat. I very much agree. However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to know them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat. When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign was and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the road. That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't enough to turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few disasters caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived "right" to boat in ignorance. |
DSK,
You have to be born with an innate ability to operate a boat. Most liberals do not have that ability. I would endorse a law that would not allow any registered Democrats to operate a boat. ; ) "DSK" wrote in message .. . The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach anyone how to operate a boat. Well, FWIW it seems that way to me, too, but this begs the question "how does anybody ever learn to operate a boat then?" Gould 0738 wrote: I very much agree. However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to know them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat. No course is ever going to instill a basic familiarity with the laws of physics and some common sense. When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign was and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the road. That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't enough to turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few disasters caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived "right" to boat in ignorance. The main thing these courses need to drive into the skulls of newbie boaters is 1- It's easier to screw up than you think 2- if you screw up, it will probably hurt. A lot. 2- if you hurt somebody else or damage their boat, they get to break all your leg & ankle bones. Slowly. And it will definitely hurt. A lot. It's not quite down to the one sentence minimum, but it covers all the bases nicely. Fair Skies Doug King |
No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to
have an accident. "Ed C" wrote in message ... Did a license ever stop an accident on the road? "Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
DSK,
You have to be born with an innate ability to operate a boat. Most liberals do not have that ability. I would endorse a law that would not allow any registered Democrats to operate a boat. ; ) Conservatives don't know how to operate a boat, either. They just hire an illegal immigrant at well below minimum wage to do it for them. Many of the II's have some bluewater boating experience, having floated in on makeshift rafts, etc. :-) |
Gould,
I am glad you highlighted the fact that conservatives who own a boat are less likely to have an accident. We need to either make it illegal for liberals to operate a boat, or at the very least, charge them substantially more for insurance. After all, why should conservatives have to subsidize your hobbies. ; ) "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... DSK, You have to be born with an innate ability to operate a boat. Most liberals do not have that ability. I would endorse a law that would not allow any registered Democrats to operate a boat. ; ) Conservatives don't know how to operate a boat, either. They just hire an illegal immigrant at well below minimum wage to do it for them. Many of the II's have some bluewater boating experience, having floated in on makeshift rafts, etc. :-) |
I have received a 10% allowance for my car and my boating safety courses.
I have to renew my defensive driving course every 3 yrs, but have received the 10% discount for the last 17 yrs, I have received a 10% discount for a course I took the last 1t yrs ago. .. "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:28:38 GMT, "Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote: No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to have an accident. I am a proponent of boater safety courses, however, since taking part in boater safety courses is an elective decision, you haven't established whether this phenomenon is cause or effect. I think it is most likely that those interested in boating safety pursue the courses out of the initiative of self improvement. They would have been safe, anyway. Given the embarrassingly small percentage of discount afforded by the insurance companies for boating safety course completers... I'd think that few to none of those people holding boating safety and navigational rules/information in low esteem would be induced to take courses for selfish monetary reasons. They'd probably be unsafe, anyway. There is a lot of difference between taking a course and altering someone's behavior. If I were an insurance company, I'd think of some pricing scheme to induce boaters to take these boating safety courses (even the disinterested ones), that is, if I truly felt that they would improve safety and my bottom line. Looking at the insurance companies complacent attitude toward this.... I'd conclude that it isn't all that strong a link to them..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
"Ryk" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:01:42 GMT, "Don White" wrote: "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... It's a friggin 20 buck tax grab with a ridiculous exam that proves nothing regarding operator competency! You now need one despite the fact you might have a Master/Minor Waters certification. Actually, the regulations require only that one carry proof of competency on board and recognize e.g. a CPS diploma as adequate proof of competency in lieu of a license. Better re-read that..... once fully implemented a Boat operator's Cert will be mandatory and required. CM |
A Boat Operators Card is not a defensive driving course... it's barely a
beginner's exam for a retard! CM "Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote in message news:G6Kmd.417721$D%.308970@attbi_s51... No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to have an accident. "Ed C" wrote in message ... Did a license ever stop an accident on the road? "Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I have no tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years. CM "Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote in message news:V4Lmd.417841$D%.372275@attbi_s51... I have received a 10% allowance for my car and my boating safety courses. I have to renew my defensive driving course every 3 yrs, but have received the 10% discount for the last 17 yrs, I have received a 10% discount for a course I took the last 1t yrs ago. . "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:28:38 GMT, "Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote: No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to have an accident. I am a proponent of boater safety courses, however, since taking part in boater safety courses is an elective decision, you haven't established whether this phenomenon is cause or effect. I think it is most likely that those interested in boating safety pursue the courses out of the initiative of self improvement. They would have been safe, anyway. Given the embarrassingly small percentage of discount afforded by the insurance companies for boating safety course completers... I'd think that few to none of those people holding boating safety and navigational rules/information in low esteem would be induced to take courses for selfish monetary reasons. They'd probably be unsafe, anyway. There is a lot of difference between taking a course and altering someone's behavior. If I were an insurance company, I'd think of some pricing scheme to induce boaters to take these boating safety courses (even the disinterested ones), that is, if I truly felt that they would improve safety and my bottom line. Looking at the insurance companies complacent attitude toward this.... I'd conclude that it isn't all that strong a link to them..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
It is time for you to change insurance companies.
Check out Geico. "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I have no tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years. CM "Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote in message news:V4Lmd.417841$D%.372275@attbi_s51... I have received a 10% allowance for my car and my boating safety courses. I have to renew my defensive driving course every 3 yrs, but have received the 10% discount for the last 17 yrs, I have received a 10% discount for a course I took the last 1t yrs ago. . "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:28:38 GMT, "Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote: No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to have an accident. I am a proponent of boater safety courses, however, since taking part in boater safety courses is an elective decision, you haven't established whether this phenomenon is cause or effect. I think it is most likely that those interested in boating safety pursue the courses out of the initiative of self improvement. They would have been safe, anyway. Given the embarrassingly small percentage of discount afforded by the insurance companies for boating safety course completers... I'd think that few to none of those people holding boating safety and navigational rules/information in low esteem would be induced to take courses for selfish monetary reasons. They'd probably be unsafe, anyway. There is a lot of difference between taking a course and altering someone's behavior. If I were an insurance company, I'd think of some pricing scheme to induce boaters to take these boating safety courses (even the disinterested ones), that is, if I truly felt that they would improve safety and my bottom line. Looking at the insurance companies complacent attitude toward this.... I'd conclude that it isn't all that strong a link to them..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
Cdn ... my opinion, just another money grab.
"Gordon" wrote in message ... Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon |
"Gordon" wrote in message . ..
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon Do you have a right to go boating? If you need a license, the government is changing it from a right to privilege. As soon as you start licensing some activity as a privilege, a lot of due process protections may go out the window. |
"Gordon" wrote in message . ..
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon I am in canada and as some said you have to get a more or less useless operator card for $20. Its better than nothing but not the big breakthrough. The goal must be to keep a certain kind of idiot of the water without makeing other peoples hobbies difficult. Which unfortunately useually fails as soon as politicians get their hands on it. Matt |
Not sure about in the middle of the country but I don't think due process
counts when the USCG teams or customs inspectors board. "Curtis CCR" wrote in message om... "Gordon" wrote in message . .. Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state? Thanks in advance Gordon Do you have a right to go boating? If you need a license, the government is changing it from a right to privilege. As soon as you start licensing some activity as a privilege, a lot of due process protections may go out the window. |
I don't think due process
counts when the USCG teams or customs inspectors board. That is probably why our sheriff usually carries an adolecent slick sleeve coastie on his boat. The coastie does the actual boarding. I also found it interesting that the coastie wasn't carrying the standard M9 Baretta side arm. He had, what appears to be, a sheriff issued Glock. Makes me wonder if it was loaded. When I was in the CG you needed to be "rated" to carry a sidearm in public. It was usually a GM2 or higher. Maybe the drug war has changed that. |
Capt. Mooron wrote:
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I have no tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years. CM so let's see...the politicos who dance to the beat of the insurance companies, and the TV ads paid for by the insurance companies told you that your insurance premiums would go down if you took a course or three...and you believed them... Insurance premiums...yah it's theft and it's legal Sucks eh? |
Just my opinion they should insure the driver not the car. After all the
tables are based on the drivers record are they not? Try not owning one at all and then renting. When I do have occasion to need a vehicle my rates, even with VISA backup are still $11 a day. With driver license insurance I could cover any listed class of vehicle... "prodigal1" wrote in message ... Capt. Mooron wrote: I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I have no tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years. CM so let's see...the politicos who dance to the beat of the insurance companies, and the TV ads paid for by the insurance companies told you that your insurance premiums would go down if you took a course or three...and you believed them... Insurance premiums...yah it's theft and it's legal Sucks eh? |
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