Butch Ammon wrote:

Say what you want, but I know from experience turkey hunting is real battle
of
wits and patience.

Butch Ammon


You've outwitted a turkey, eh?


Not exactly.... I've been "busted", as the saying goes, way too many times.
Turkeys always seem to have this sixth sense and know where I am and they know
the range of a shotgun too. They are very smart and frustrating for hunters to
hunt.

Question: You mentioned something about food at Giant, Safeware, or even
Kroger's, Ukrop's, Food Lion, etc... How did those Butterball Turkeys get in
the supermarket? Turkey hunting just saves a trip to the store, IMHO. Please
tell me you celebrate Thanksgiving and eat a turkey with your family.

Butch Ammon

They are delivered in a truck, Butch.

I buy my Thanksgiving turkey at Giant. It's usually a loss-leader item.
I got a 20-pound, Grade A, U.S. Government inspected fresh turkey for
about 90 cents a pound, cleaned and ready to stuff.

It was delicious.

How long did it take you to clean the turkey you didn't catch? And how
do you know it was disease-free?

h.



--
Email sent to is never read.

I've raised a couple turkeys for food and it's more of a PITA than it's
worth. It was only tolerable because I did it along side the show ducks. But
turkeys get into more trouble than ducks - LOL.

That said, were I to see a huge tom, I'd most likely blast it too. I *like*
turkey for dinner. That said, it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
If
the damn things are that savvy in the wild - it's easier to catch one at the
store.

And I paid .60 a pound for my loss leaders over the holidays.

-W (had turkey last night - the shrink wrapped kind)



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Butch Ammon wrote:

Say what you want, but I know from experience turkey hunting is real
battle
of
wits and patience.

Butch Ammon


You've outwitted a turkey, eh?


Not exactly.... I've been "busted", as the saying goes, way too many
times.
Turkeys always seem to have this sixth sense and know where I am and
they know
the range of a shotgun too. They are very smart and frustrating for
hunters to
hunt.

Question: You mentioned something about food at Giant, Safeware, or
even
Kroger's, Ukrop's, Food Lion, etc... How did those Butterball Turkeys
get in
the supermarket? Turkey hunting just saves a trip to the store, IMHO.
Please
tell me you celebrate Thanksgiving and eat a turkey with your family.

Butch Ammon

They are delivered in a truck, Butch.

I buy my Thanksgiving turkey at Giant. It's usually a loss-leader item.
I got a 20-pound, Grade A, U.S. Government inspected fresh turkey for
about 90 cents a pound, cleaned and ready to stuff.

It was delicious.

How long did it take you to clean the turkey you didn't catch? And how
do you know it was disease-free?

h.



--
Email sent to is never read.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


I've never seen stats on shooting accidents involving hunters, but, of
course, I've noticed the backpage headlines in the newspaper when it
happens. It does seem to occur with some frequency, and I'm guessing it
is the result of booze, stupidity or just outright carelessness.

According to my friend, "don't climb a tree with your gun loaded" is one of
the most often ignored rules. A lot of guns handed down from grandpa (and
probably some newer ones) won't pass the "drop test".


I just can't buy into the hunting scene. There was a bit on one of the
TV outdoor shows last night where a young kid was out with his dad,
grandad or uncle, not sure which, and they were ISO turkeys to shoot.
They enticed a huge tom into their sights about 25' away and after some
coaxing, the kid blasted the bird. I was thinking that if the kid had
been fishing, he could have had a few minutes of fun and then released
his catch.

A) They ate it.
B) It's better than anything you buy in the store.
C) The ones you buy in the store (believe it or not) were alive before they
were killed.

I'd like to mount a few trophy hunters on the wall, but people who hunt
responsibly and eat what they get? What's the problem with that?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Butch Ammon wrote:
I think it's great. The dad/granddad/uncle taught the young boy how to
get a
turkey to have for food.

The dad/grand-dad/uncle would better serve the kid by making sure he
knows how to read and how to otherwise prepare himself intellectually
for this unbrave new world. If you want food, you can go to Giant or
Safeware.

.....and get a turkey pumped full of antibiotics, a turkey that for reasons
nobody understands, has been bred and fed to produce a huge chunk of dried
out white meat. And, when they're killed, it's done in a way that's no more
or less humane than a hunted bird. I got my turkey in November from a local
farm. I asked the guy how they were killed. He said "You don't wanna know,
and we do it the best way possible".


I have gone turkey hunting many times and it is a
real challenge. Turkeys can see in full color like a human and their
sight is
50 times more sharper than ours. In other words, a turkey can see you
blink
your eyes from 200 yards away!

So?

So, he just deflated the kneejerk nonsense about how the odds are stacked in
the hunter's favor when turkey hunting.

At least it lets the kid know where meat comes from. As to turkey prices.
At Thanksgiving, Safeway had up to a 16# turkey for $4.99. About 31 cents a
pound.
Bill

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:N9CJb.275143$_M.1299325@attbi_s54...
I've raised a couple turkeys for food and it's more of a PITA than it's
worth. It was only tolerable because I did it along side the show ducks.
But
turkeys get into more trouble than ducks - LOL.

That said, were I to see a huge tom, I'd most likely blast it too. I
*like*
turkey for dinner. That said, it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
If
the damn things are that savvy in the wild - it's easier to catch one at
the
store.

And I paid .60 a pound for my loss leaders over the holidays.

-W (had turkey last night - the shrink wrapped kind)



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Butch Ammon wrote:

Say what you want, but I know from experience turkey hunting is real
battle
of
wits and patience.

Butch Ammon


You've outwitted a turkey, eh?


Not exactly.... I've been "busted", as the saying goes, way too many
times.
Turkeys always seem to have this sixth sense and know where I am and
they know
the range of a shotgun too. They are very smart and frustrating for
hunters to
hunt.

Question: You mentioned something about food at Giant, Safeware, or
even
Kroger's, Ukrop's, Food Lion, etc... How did those Butterball Turkeys
get in
the supermarket? Turkey hunting just saves a trip to the store, IMHO.
Please
tell me you celebrate Thanksgiving and eat a turkey with your family.

Butch Ammon

They are delivered in a truck, Butch.

I buy my Thanksgiving turkey at Giant. It's usually a loss-leader item.
I got a 20-pound, Grade A, U.S. Government inspected fresh turkey for
about 90 cents a pound, cleaned and ready to stuff.

It was delicious.

How long did it take you to clean the turkey you didn't catch? And how
do you know it was disease-free?

h.



--
Email sent to is never read.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:04:06 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .

Read the site. I suspect you've never delved deeper than the "Statement
of
Priniciples". When you have made a study of the entire PNAC program,
we'll be
on the same playing field in this discussion.

Before we start arguing the merits of each individual article on the
site, I think it's fair to discuss the principles of the organization.
We started with your comments shaping circumstances for favorable
outcomes, which you found arrogant. However, from later posts it seems
you agree with that statement.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

I doubt that Chuck disagrees completely with the idea of meddling PEACEFULLY
in order to create favorable political or economic situations. Every country
on earth does that to the best of its ability. I suspect the problem is that
people involved with the PNAC have already demonstrated that whether to
meddle peacefully or with weapons is pretty much a coin toss - a 50/50
chance of either happening. Not much different than standing in the cleaning
products at the supermarket and picking Ajax instead of Comet because it
doesn't make much difference.

Doug, this could be true, but Chuck referred to the shaping of
circumstances as arrogant. He didn't limit the shaping to combative
shaping.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"John H" wrote in message
...


I doubt that Chuck disagrees completely with the idea of meddling
PEACEFULLY
in order to create favorable political or economic situations. Every
country
on earth does that to the best of its ability. I suspect the problem is
that
people involved with the PNAC have already demonstrated that whether to
meddle peacefully or with weapons is pretty much a coin toss - a 50/50
chance of either happening. Not much different than standing in the
cleaning
products at the supermarket and picking Ajax instead of Comet because it
doesn't make much difference.

Doug, this could be true, but Chuck referred to the shaping of
circumstances as arrogant. He didn't limit the shaping to combative
shaping.

John H

Maybe Mrs Chuck shaped circumstances in such a way that he had to spend an
unwanted afternoon with a relative he's not fond of, so he expanded this
attitude to encompass world politics. I can't believe Chuck thinks EVERYONE
doesn't shape circumstances at one time or another. Even him. :-)

Maybe Mrs Chuck shaped circumstances in such a way that he had to spend an
unwanted afternoon with a relative he's not fond of, so he expanded this
attitude to encompass world politics. I can't believe Chuck thinks EVERYONE
doesn't shape circumstances at one time or another. Even him. :-)


It would be arrogant for me to assume I had the right, (perhaps the divine
imperative!), to shape curcumstances on the rest of the planet for my personal
benefit.

http://www.tomorrowsbestseller.com/w...State/book.asp

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Maybe Mrs Chuck shaped circumstances in such a way that he had to spend
an
unwanted afternoon with a relative he's not fond of, so he expanded this
attitude to encompass world politics. I can't believe Chuck thinks
EVERYONE
doesn't shape circumstances at one time or another. Even him. :-)


It would be arrogant for me to assume I had the right, (perhaps the divine
imperative!), to shape curcumstances on the rest of the planet for my
personal
benefit.


http://www.tomorrowsbestseller.com/w...State/book.asp

Chuck, I'm talking about doing it through any peaceful means, such as
diplomacy, above-board win-win financial arrangements, etc. By "win-win", I
don't mean that an American company gets permission to mine copper by paying
off some generalissimo, while the workers are essentially slaves from the
nearest prison. There *are* real-life situations which are better than that.
If you call Microsoft tech support at 3:00 AM Eastern time, you stand a good
chance of speaking to someone from Ireland or India.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:35:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .


I doubt that Chuck disagrees completely with the idea of meddling
PEACEFULLY
in order to create favorable political or economic situations. Every
country
on earth does that to the best of its ability. I suspect the problem is
that
people involved with the PNAC have already demonstrated that whether to
meddle peacefully or with weapons is pretty much a coin toss - a 50/50
chance of either happening. Not much different than standing in the
cleaning
products at the supermarket and picking Ajax instead of Comet because it
doesn't make much difference.

Doug, this could be true, but Chuck referred to the shaping of
circumstances as arrogant. He didn't limit the shaping to combative
shaping.

John H

Maybe Mrs Chuck shaped circumstances in such a way that he had to spend an
unwanted afternoon with a relative he's not fond of, so he expanded this
attitude to encompass world politics. I can't believe Chuck thinks EVERYONE
doesn't shape circumstances at one time or another. Even him. :-)

I think Chuck is a great guy. He is going to take my brother and I on
his boat, and they are not going to get my in a crossfire,
politically. But, he's the one that said it, not me. I didn't make it
up!

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!