"Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem." Not true. Locally the
valedictorian of a couple of years ago was censured for bringing up God in
his speech. He earned the right to give his speech by having the best
grades in the class. If another person had brought up HIndu's Shiva or
Mohammed in his speech, would he have been censured? This is graduation.
The winner gets to make a speech. It is their work, not anything demanded
by the school or the government. What is your spin to this?

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
It is not illegal if the majority of public school attendees want to
cite a prayer in school.

Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem.

According to the courts, (but what do they know?) it becomes illegal when
that
prayer becomes an official part of the school day.

Why do you fundies think its necessary to throw your religion in everybody
else's face? Would God refuse to listen to you if you gathered all the
kids
who felt they needed to pray, aloud, (and in the schoolhouse) in the
gymnasium,
or the auditorium, or the lunchroom 15 or 20 minutes before the beginning
of
the actual school day and prayed? Nothing stops your kids from doing so
now.
No, what you guys all seem to want is for the official school day to begin
with
not only the Flag Salute (which is appropriate in a public school) but the
Lord's Prayer as well.

If you think the majority of kids want to pray before the actual school
day
begins, fine. Give them a palce and an opportunity to do so. Even if only
one
kid wants to pray before school begins, give him or her an opportunity to
do
so. Just don't make a religious ceremony part of the official, taxpayer
funded,
school day.

And before you get all cranked on about the majority, ask yourself how
you'd
feel if you were a Protestant Christian in a neighborhood where the
"majority"
of residents were Catholic Christians. Would you be excited about somebody
handing your kid a rosary at the beginning of first period and then
instructing
the class to repeat, "Hail, Mary, full of grace......."? Sure, your kid
could
make a big nasty scene by refusing to go along.....but how many kids will
just
buckle under to peer pressure and pray as instructed?

Do you feel its the job of the school to teach religious values, or is
that the
responsibility of the family and the church.
Does the answer to that question change when the school is teaching *your*
specific religious values rather than some others?

If the local town wants to put up Christmas decorations and the
majority of the town is in agreement, then they should be allowed to
do so.

Once again, your opinion is different than the top legal minds in the US,
but
what do they know?

A town can put up snowmen, Santa Claus,
candy canes, and even decorated trees.
The government cannot establish or promote a religion, and at the point
where
the decorations begin broadcasting a religious message about angels,
virgins,
and etc the decorations are promoting an offshoot of Christianity.

Christmas isn't really Christian. It was never celebrated by Jesus, the
apostles, or the early church. Jesus never referred to a miraculous birth
in
any of his teachings. All other major incidents in the life of Jesus are
recorded in all four gospels, but two of the gospels don't even *mention*
an
incident where an enormous star appeared, hordes of angels hovered over a
herd
of sheep, three Arab soothsayers arrived on camels to give gold and other
precious treasures to a stranger's baby, born in a stable. You think maybe
all
four books would have mentioned something almost as dramatic in its own
right
as the crucifixion, had it occured?

(Many scholars agree that the stories of the Virgin birth, etc, were added
to
the Christian religious literature sometime in the second century. A
number of
Roman gods, and sometimes even the Roman Emporer himself would claim to be
born
of a virgin and the early church tweaked the tradition to keep up.
Potential
converts might otherwise ask, "Why should we adopt your religion? Heck,
your
guy wasn't even born of a virgin...")

To the degree that Christmas isn't Christian, I could go along with the
manger
display in city park. Unfortunately, Christmas becomes Christian when 99%
of
the Christians in town assume that it is.

You probably have some people in your town who think it's extremely
religious
to
dance naked around a pole on the First of May. Would you support the
expenditure of town funds to put up the pole? Would you say it's fine to
allow
this celebration to
use up all the space in the public park? How about naked people dancing
around
the pole for several weeks prior to May First, as it is the "season"?
Should
you send your kids to school naked on May First?

From a legal perspective, in a nation where
we have equal rights under the law, what makes the manger display and the
loudspeakers blaring "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" in City Park any more
acceptable than a bunch of naked people pounding on drums and dancing
around a
pole or a fire?


If 80% of a graduating class of a typical suburban high school is
white, then it stands to reason that the top candidates for college
admission would follow this demographic. Should a portion of the
majority of this class be denied their earned place in the college
admission because of some slanted minority "quota"?

College admissions officers should not be allowed to inquire about the
race of
an applicant. When an application is received,
the data should be transferred into a file where the sudent is referred to
by a
number, so there could be no subconscious impulse to approve or disapprove
Tyrone Johnson, vs. Heather Goldstein, vs. Loc Nguyen Hoy or Miguel
Hernandez
based on assumptions one might make based on name alone.



The law offers "equal" protection, not "special" protection for those
in the minority.

Yes, yes! The minority cannot prevent the majority from doing something
it has
a legal right to do. By the same token, the majority cannot simply presume
a
right that is unconstitutional, and the majority cannot prevent the
minority
from exercising any and all legal rights.



They can choose to either play the game, watch from the sidelines,
start their own game, or go home. But they have no right to make the
game stop.

If the game is unconstitutional, it has no right to begin in the first
place
and should be stopped.

How about a lynching, Dave? There have been plenty of instances where the
"majority" of citizens in a town have supported lynchings. Should those
who
oppose lynching just


remove
themselves from the act, or they can choose to observe their own
prayer. But they CAN NOT deny those who wish to, the opportunity to do
so.

Gould,

So true, I have never understood why that upsets some conservatives, they
can pray anywhere and anytime they want. In many school systems they could
start a bible study group and pray in their group.

Christians can pray in school already, the same way homosexuals can have a
civil contract between each other today. Christians want to have school
prayer included in school activities, as a way of confirming their beliefs,
the same as homosexuals want to be "married" so the public will confirm
lifestyle.

Neither group needs society to confirm their belief, they both already have
the rights they are seeking.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
It is not illegal if the majority of public school attendees want to
cite a prayer in school.

Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem.

According to the courts, (but what do they know?) it becomes illegal when
that
prayer becomes an official part of the school day.

Why do you fundies think its necessary to throw your religion in everybody
else's face? Would God refuse to listen to you if you gathered all the
kids
who felt they needed to pray, aloud, (and in the schoolhouse) in the
gymnasium,
or the auditorium, or the lunchroom 15 or 20 minutes before the beginning
of
the actual school day and prayed? Nothing stops your kids from doing so
now.
No, what you guys all seem to want is for the official school day to begin
with
not only the Flag Salute (which is appropriate in a public school) but the
Lord's Prayer as well.

If you think the majority of kids want to pray before the actual school
day
begins, fine. Give them a palce and an opportunity to do so. Even if only
one
kid wants to pray before school begins, give him or her an opportunity to
do
so. Just don't make a religious ceremony part of the official, taxpayer
funded,
school day.

And before you get all cranked on about the majority, ask yourself how
you'd
feel if you were a Protestant Christian in a neighborhood where the
"majority"
of residents were Catholic Christians. Would you be excited about somebody
handing your kid a rosary at the beginning of first period and then
instructing
the class to repeat, "Hail, Mary, full of grace......."? Sure, your kid
could
make a big nasty scene by refusing to go along.....but how many kids will
just
buckle under to peer pressure and pray as instructed?

Do you feel its the job of the school to teach religious values, or is
that the
responsibility of the family and the church.
Does the answer to that question change when the school is teaching *your*
specific religious values rather than some others?

If the local town wants to put up Christmas decorations and the
majority of the town is in agreement, then they should be allowed to
do so.

Once again, your opinion is different than the top legal minds in the US,
but
what do they know?

A town can put up snowmen, Santa Claus,
candy canes, and even decorated trees.
The government cannot establish or promote a religion, and at the point
where
the decorations begin broadcasting a religious message about angels,
virgins,
and etc the decorations are promoting an offshoot of Christianity.

Christmas isn't really Christian. It was never celebrated by Jesus, the
apostles, or the early church. Jesus never referred to a miraculous birth
in
any of his teachings. All other major incidents in the life of Jesus are
recorded in all four gospels, but two of the gospels don't even *mention*
an
incident where an enormous star appeared, hordes of angels hovered over a
herd
of sheep, three Arab soothsayers arrived on camels to give gold and other
precious treasures to a stranger's baby, born in a stable. You think maybe
all
four books would have mentioned something almost as dramatic in its own
right
as the crucifixion, had it occured?

(Many scholars agree that the stories of the Virgin birth, etc, were added
to
the Christian religious literature sometime in the second century. A
number of
Roman gods, and sometimes even the Roman Emporer himself would claim to be
born
of a virgin and the early church tweaked the tradition to keep up.
Potential
converts might otherwise ask, "Why should we adopt your religion? Heck,
your
guy wasn't even born of a virgin...")

To the degree that Christmas isn't Christian, I could go along with the
manger
display in city park. Unfortunately, Christmas becomes Christian when 99%
of
the Christians in town assume that it is.

You probably have some people in your town who think it's extremely
religious
to
dance naked around a pole on the First of May. Would you support the
expenditure of town funds to put up the pole? Would you say it's fine to
allow
this celebration to
use up all the space in the public park? How about naked people dancing
around
the pole for several weeks prior to May First, as it is the "season"?
Should
you send your kids to school naked on May First?

From a legal perspective, in a nation where
we have equal rights under the law, what makes the manger display and the
loudspeakers blaring "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" in City Park any more
acceptable than a bunch of naked people pounding on drums and dancing
around a
pole or a fire?


If 80% of a graduating class of a typical suburban high school is
white, then it stands to reason that the top candidates for college
admission would follow this demographic. Should a portion of the
majority of this class be denied their earned place in the college
admission because of some slanted minority "quota"?

College admissions officers should not be allowed to inquire about the
race of
an applicant. When an application is received,
the data should be transferred into a file where the sudent is referred to
by a
number, so there could be no subconscious impulse to approve or disapprove
Tyrone Johnson, vs. Heather Goldstein, vs. Loc Nguyen Hoy or Miguel
Hernandez
based on assumptions one might make based on name alone.



The law offers "equal" protection, not "special" protection for those
in the minority.

Yes, yes! The minority cannot prevent the majority from doing something
it has
a legal right to do. By the same token, the majority cannot simply presume
a
right that is unconstitutional, and the majority cannot prevent the
minority
from exercising any and all legal rights.



They can choose to either play the game, watch from the sidelines,
start their own game, or go home. But they have no right to make the
game stop.

If the game is unconstitutional, it has no right to begin in the first
place
and should be stopped.

How about a lynching, Dave? There have been plenty of instances where the
"majority" of citizens in a town have supported lynchings. Should those
who
oppose lynching just


remove
themselves from the act, or they can choose to observe their own
prayer. But they CAN NOT deny those who wish to, the opportunity to do
so.

On 11 Nov 2004 17:18:08 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

It is not illegal if the majority of public school attendees want to
cite a prayer in school.

Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem.

According to the courts, (but what do they know?) it becomes illegal when that
prayer becomes an official part of the school day.

Why do you fundies think its necessary to throw your religion in everybody
else's face? Would God refuse to listen to you if you gathered all the kids
who felt they needed to pray, aloud, (and in the schoolhouse) in the gymnasium,
or the auditorium, or the lunchroom 15 or 20 minutes before the beginning of
the actual school day and prayed? Nothing stops your kids from doing so now.
No, what you guys all seem to want is for the official school day to begin with
not only the Flag Salute (which is appropriate in a public school) but the
Lord's Prayer as well.

If you think the majority of kids want to pray before the actual school day
begins, fine. Give them a palce and an opportunity to do so. Even if only one
kid wants to pray before school begins, give him or her an opportunity to do
so. Just don't make a religious ceremony part of the official, taxpayer funded,
school day.

And before you get all cranked on about the majority, ask yourself how you'd
feel if you were a Protestant Christian in a neighborhood where the "majority"
of residents were Catholic Christians. Would you be excited about somebody
handing your kid a rosary at the beginning of first period and then instructing
the class to repeat, "Hail, Mary, full of grace......."? Sure, your kid could
make a big nasty scene by refusing to go along.....but how many kids will just
buckle under to peer pressure and pray as instructed?

Do you feel its the job of the school to teach religious values, or is that the
responsibility of the family and the church.
Does the answer to that question change when the school is teaching *your*
specific religious values rather than some others?

If the local town wants to put up Christmas decorations and the
majority of the town is in agreement, then they should be allowed to
do so.

Once again, your opinion is different than the top legal minds in the US, but
what do they know?

A town can put up snowmen, Santa Claus,
candy canes, and even decorated trees.
The government cannot establish or promote a religion, and at the point where
the decorations begin broadcasting a religious message about angels, virgins,
and etc the decorations are promoting an offshoot of Christianity.

Christmas isn't really Christian. It was never celebrated by Jesus, the
apostles, or the early church. Jesus never referred to a miraculous birth in
any of his teachings. All other major incidents in the life of Jesus are
recorded in all four gospels, but two of the gospels don't even *mention* an
incident where an enormous star appeared, hordes of angels hovered over a herd
of sheep, three Arab soothsayers arrived on camels to give gold and other
precious treasures to a stranger's baby, born in a stable. You think maybe all
four books would have mentioned something almost as dramatic in its own right
as the crucifixion, had it occured?

(Many scholars agree that the stories of the Virgin birth, etc, were added to
the Christian religious literature sometime in the second century. A number of
Roman gods, and sometimes even the Roman Emporer himself would claim to be born
of a virgin and the early church tweaked the tradition to keep up. Potential
converts might otherwise ask, "Why should we adopt your religion? Heck, your
guy wasn't even born of a virgin...")

To the degree that Christmas isn't Christian, I could go along with the manger
display in city park. Unfortunately, Christmas becomes Christian when 99% of
the Christians in town assume that it is.

You probably have some people in your town who think it's extremely religious
to
dance naked around a pole on the First of May. Would you support the
expenditure of town funds to put up the pole? Would you say it's fine to allow
this celebration to
use up all the space in the public park? How about naked people dancing around
the pole for several weeks prior to May First, as it is the "season"? Should
you send your kids to school naked on May First?

From a legal perspective, in a nation where
we have equal rights under the law, what makes the manger display and the
loudspeakers blaring "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" in City Park any more
acceptable than a bunch of naked people pounding on drums and dancing around a
pole or a fire?


If 80% of a graduating class of a typical suburban high school is
white, then it stands to reason that the top candidates for college
admission would follow this demographic. Should a portion of the
majority of this class be denied their earned place in the college
admission because of some slanted minority "quota"?

College admissions officers should not be allowed to inquire about the race of
an applicant. When an application is received,
the data should be transferred into a file where the sudent is referred to by a
number, so there could be no subconscious impulse to approve or disapprove
Tyrone Johnson, vs. Heather Goldstein, vs. Loc Nguyen Hoy or Miguel Hernandez
based on assumptions one might make based on name alone.



The law offers "equal" protection, not "special" protection for those
in the minority.

Yes, yes! The minority cannot prevent the majority from doing something it has
a legal right to do. By the same token, the majority cannot simply presume a
right that is unconstitutional, and the majority cannot prevent the minority
from exercising any and all legal rights.



They can choose to either play the game, watch from the sidelines,
start their own game, or go home. But they have no right to make the
game stop.

If the game is unconstitutional, it has no right to begin in the first place
and should be stopped.

How about a lynching, Dave? There have been plenty of instances where the
"majority" of citizens in a town have supported lynchings. Should those who
oppose lynching just


remove
themselves from the act, or they can choose to observe their own
prayer. But they CAN NOT deny those who wish to, the opportunity to do
so.


Who are you calling 'fundies'?

I hope you aren't putting anyone who has a conservative bent into the
'fundie' category. Most of us are not 'fundies' and have no problem
with the illegality of requiring prayer in a public school.

In my county the compromise is a 'moment of silence' during which a
person can pray, think about the last movie seen, worry about the
upcoming test, or anything else they wish to do silently. Works well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem." Not true. Locally
the
valedictorian of a couple of years ago was censured for bringing up God
in
his speech. He earned the right to give his speech by having the best
grades in the class. If another person had brought up HIndu's Shiva or
Mohammed in his speech, would he have been censured? This is
graduation.
The winner gets to make a speech. It is their work, not anything
demanded
by the school or the government. What is your spin to this?


The school sets the rules, picks the speakers and, if it wishes,
outlines the criteria for using its forum.

No one prevented that student from praying to himself or herself.

He talked about God in his life, not praying. You still can not comprehend
what you read. And they picked the speaker via who has the best GPA. HE
earned the right to speak.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem." Not true. Locally
the
valedictorian of a couple of years ago was censured for bringing up God
in
his speech. He earned the right to give his speech by having the best
grades in the class. If another person had brought up HIndu's Shiva or
Mohammed in his speech, would he have been censured? This is
graduation.
The winner gets to make a speech. It is their work, not anything
demanded
by the school or the government. What is your spin to this?


The school sets the rules, picks the speakers and, if it wishes,
outlines the criteria for using its forum.

No one prevented that student from praying to himself or herself.

And he did not require nor did the school require the audience to pray along
with the speaker. He was giving his view point.

He talked about God in his life, not praying. You still can not comprehend
what you read. And they picked the speaker via who has the best GPA. HE
earned the right to speak.

The school was clearly wrong to prohibit a student from mentioning God in a
speech.
But.....how does this negate the fact that anybody can pray in school at any
time?
Your example didn't involve prayer, did it?

Would seem to me that unless the spectacle was more important than the prayer
itself, people could be praying all over the place and who would know?

The winner gets to make a speech. It is their work, not anything demanded
by the school or the government. What is your spin to this?

No spin at all. The school was wrong to punish a student for utilizing an
opportunity for free speech. The the student wanted to
say, "God. God. God......" 10,000 times- no problem.

The school would be just as wrong to demand that students pray, open the school
day with a standardized prayer that everyone was expected to say aloud, or
otherwise inject religion into publicly funded education.

I hope you aren't putting anyone who has a conservative bent into the
'fundie' category. Most of us are not 'fundies' and have no problem
with the illegality of requiring prayer in a public school.

Then the shoe doesn't fit, so don't try to wear it.

A couple of traits often exhibited by "fundies" can include:

1) insisting the the United States is a "Christian" nation.........(makes one
wonder whether professing Christianity will become a prerequisite for
citizenship or voting......)

2) an assumption that if the "majority" follows a certain faith then that
majority should be allowed to include formal religious ceremonies or
observations as part of secular government functions like public education-
without restriction from the constitution and without worrying about the equal
rights afforded to folks who believe differently.

3) a generous concession that those not willing to recite a prayer are
absolutely free to suffer the embarassing stigma of the "odd man out" while all
the good little girls and boys who will be going to heaven recite some
impersonal, memorized, dogmatic statement and consider it a prayer.

I know of some (Christian) folks who pray by handling live rattle snakes. They
theorize that if their faith is strong, they won't die from snakebite. Heck,
just think of the fabulous scene in your substitute math class when one of the
students pulls out a live rattler to get closer to God during the moment of
silence. Now that *would* get the school day off to a memorable start. :-)

On 11 Nov 2004 17:18:08 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

It is not illegal if the majority of public school attendees want to
cite a prayer in school.

Anyone can pray in school, at any time. No problem.

According to the courts, (but what do they know?) it becomes illegal when that
prayer becomes an official part of the school day.

Define "official"? Is it official if the teacher makes time for it?

Why do you fundies

I'm not a "fundie" I don't even attend regular church services.


think its necessary to throw your religion in everybody
else's face? Would God refuse to listen to you if you gathered all the kids
who felt they needed to pray, aloud, (and in the schoolhouse) in the gymnasium,
or the auditorium, or the lunchroom 15 or 20 minutes before the beginning of
the actual schoo ldayandprayedNothingstopsyourkidsfromdoingsonow.
No, what you guys all seem to want is for the official school day to begin with
not only the Flag Salute (which is appropriate in a public school) but the
Lord's Prayer as well.

And if that's what the majority wants, then they should be allowed to
have it, despite those who cannot respect this and want to bitch about
it.


If you think the majority of kids want to pray before the actual school day
begins, fine. Give th emapalceandanopportunitytodoso.Evenifonlyone
kid wants to pray before school begins, give him or her an opportunity to do
so. Just don't make a religious ceremony part of the official, taxpayer funded,
school day.

If that's what the majority wants..... I know I'm sounding like a
broken record here, but you keep missing the point.


And before you get all cranked on about the majority, ask yourself how you'd
feel if you were a Protestant Christian in a neighborhood where the "majority"
of residents were Catholic Christians. Would you be excited about somebody
handing your kid a rosary at the beginning of first period and then instructing
the class to repeat, "Hail, Mary, full of grace......."? Sure, your kid could
make a big nasty scene by refusing to go along.....but how many kids will just
buckle under to peer pressure and pray as instructed?

If it bothered me that much, I'd move to an area which more closely
matched my own beliefs. Otherwise I'd either go with the flow out of
respect, or politely refuse. I would NOT make a scene about it, or
demand that it be stopped.


Do you feel its the job of the school to teach religious values, or is that the
responsibility of the family and the church.

I don't believe it's the job of the school to "teach" religious
values, but I do believe that they owe the majority of the citizens to
provide a place and time for the observance of prayer if that is what
the majority wishes.

Does the answer to that question change when the school is teaching *your*
specific religious values rather than some others?

Not applicable.


If the local town wants to put up Christmas decorations and the
majority of the town is in agreement, then they should be allowed to
do so.

Once again, your opinion is different than the top legal minds in the US, but
what do they know?

They can be biased. That's why the left is so punch drunk about the
possibility that Bush might bring in more conservative value judges
into the supreme court.

A town can put up snowmen, Santa Claus,
candy canes, and even decorated trees.
The government cannot establish or promote a religion, and at the point where
the decorations begin broadcasting a religious message about angels, virgins,
and etc the decorations are promoting an offshoot of Christianity.

They can certainly accommodate it if that's what the majority of
residents want. It is THEIR town after all. The government answers to
the people you know not the other way around.

Christmas isn't really Christian. It was never celebrated by Jesus

Well duh! It was the day of his birth. He couldn't very well,
celebrate it. It became something of a celebration after his death as
did most of Christianity. When he was alive, he never considered
himself as anything more than a Jew with a different attitude.

But all that is irrelevant. The majority of the people have their idea
of what Christmas is and how they want to celebrate it. So who has the
right to deny that?


To the degree that Christmas isn't Christian, I could go along with the manger
display in city park. Unfortunately, Christmas becomes Christian when 99% of
the Christians in town assume that it is.

You accept the majority rule on this but would deny that same majority
the right to observe it as they saw fit?

You probably have some people in your town who think it's extremely religious
to dance naked around a pole on the First of May.

No, not to the best of my knowledge. Then again, when some people
drink too much, they're bound to do that on any given day.

Would you support the
expenditure of town funds to put up the pole? Would you say it's fine to allow
this celebration to
use up all the space in the public park? How about naked people dancing around
the pole for several weeks prior to May First, as it is the "season"? Should
you send your kids to school naked on May First?

It that's what the majority of the residents wanted, then that's what
should be.


From a legal perspective, in a nation where
we have equal rights under the law, what makes the manger display and the
loudspeakers blaring "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" in City Park any more
acceptable than a bunch of naked people pounding on drums and dancing around a
pole or a fire?

There is no difference if that's what the majority wants.

If 80% of a graduating class of a typical suburban high school is
white, then it stands to reason that the top candidates for college
admission would follow this demographic. Should a portion of the
majority of this class be denied their earned place in the college
admission because of some slanted minority "quota"?

College admissions officers should not be allowed to inquire about the race of
an applicant. When an application is received,
the data should be transferred into a file where the sudent is referred to by a
number, so there could be no subconscious impulse to approve or disapprove
Tyrone Johnson, vs. Heather Goldstein, vs. Loc Nguyen Hoy or Miguel Hernandez
based on assumptions one might make based on name alone.

I agree, but that is not the case. I assume you are aware of the
"number" system in use in MIchigan?


The law offers "equal" protection, not "special" protection for those
in the minority.

Yes, yes! The minority cannot prevent the majority from doing something it has
a legal right to do. By the same token, the majority cannot simply presume a
right that is unconstitutional, and the majority cannot prevent the minority
from exercising any and all legal rights.

I have presented nothing which is unconstitutional nor anything which
has not been part of our tradition for over 2 centuries. The minority
has legal rights, but as a matter of weight, their rights should not
outweigh the rights of ther majority


They can choose to either play the game, watch from the sidelines,
start their own game, or go home. But they have no right to make the
game stop.

If the game is unconstitutional, it has no right to begin in the first place
and should be stopped.

What is unconstitutional, and how is it so?

How about a lynching, Dave? There have been plenty of instances where the
"majority" of citizens in a town have supported lynchings. Should those who
oppose lynching just

Lynching is addressed by law, and as such is an illegal practice. On
the other hand, years ago people were burned at the stake, and the law
condoned it.

The law and society's viewpoints are relative to the times in which
they are in common practice. It was once legal to own slaves. While
the practice is considered appalling today, the feeling was not that
way 200 years ago.

Consequently, it is disingenuous to present an act from the past, and
judge it with the viewpoint of today, unless that same act is still
valid and followed.

If your point is that Christmas traditions are old and outdated, you
could make that case, but I believe the majority of the citizens would
disagree with you. The percentages may not be as overwhelming as they
once were, but they're still a majority.

That's why Bush is still president, and not just on 4 out of the 7
days with Kerry taking up the other three.

Dave

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:04:18 -0500, JohnH
wrote:


Who are you calling 'fundies'?

Anyone with traditional values and morals. A label the left hopes to
tarnish.


I hope you aren't putting anyone who has a conservative bent into the
'fundie' category. Most of us are not 'fundies' and have no problem
with the illegality of requiring prayer in a public school.

And equally the illegality of preventing prayer in a public school.


In my county the compromise is a 'moment of silence' during which a
person can pray, think about the last movie seen, worry about the
upcoming test, or anything else they wish to do silently. Works well.

As it does here. We went from "prayer" to "moment of silence" sometime
in the middle 60's. The name changed, but we still knew what it was
meant for.

Dave