And that's the rub. WE are not the ones who are getting more extreme.
We're just now standing up for what we used to have and have slowly
lost.

Dave

You lost it in the late 19th and early 20th Century, when America enacted
industrial safety regulations.

You lost it in the 1960's, when we finally
*really* acknowledged that minorities weren't merely 3/5 of a person.

You lost it in the 1970's, when we realized that there were social costs
involved with using the public waterways as industrial sewers for private
enterprise.

You're absolutely right.....er, correct. The America you long for existed once
upon a time. 48% of the people have no interest in seeing you recreate it our
kids to live their lives in.

Rumor has it that Ashcroft is out.

I've heard that.

Is it still appropriate to stand while humming the Hallelujah Chorus?

On 05 Nov 2004 17:06:49 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

And that's the rub. WE are not the ones who are getting more extreme.
We're just now standing up for what we used to have and have slowly
lost.

Dave

You lost it in the late 19th and early 20th Century, when America enacted
industrial safety regulations.
You lost it in the 1960's, when we finally
*really* acknowledged that minorities weren't merely 3/5 of a person.

You lost it in the 1970's, when we realized that there were social costs
involved with using the public waterways as industrial sewers for private
enterprise.

You're absolutely right.....er, correct. The America you long for existed once
upon a time. 48% of the people have no interest in seeing you recreate it our
kids to live their lives in.


Wow, you really can spin with the best of them. None of those things
was what I was referring to, and I suspect you knew that.

Dave

Wow, you really can spin with the best of them. None of those things
was what I was referring to, and I suspect you knew that.

Dave



If we can just get every conservative a pair of those Normal Rockwell goggles
so you can all sit around and pretend its 1956, and if we can legalize cannabis
so enough of the liberals are too stoned to give a rip what you do, peace will
prevail on the American political scene. :-)

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:44:25 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:


If we can just get every conservative a pair of those Normal Rockwell
goggles so you can all sit around and pretend its 1956, and if we can
legalize cannabis so enough of the liberals are too stoned to give a rip
what you do, peace will prevail on the American political scene. :-)

Oh yeah, '56 was a good year. Now if you had said '54, that was the year
McCarthy got his "mandate" with a 50% approval rating (Gallup). What a
difference two years can make!

On 08 Nov 2004 16:44:25 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Wow, you really can spin with the best of them. None of those things
was what I was referring to, and I suspect you knew that.

Dave



If we can just get every conservative a pair of those Normal Rockwell goggles
so you can all sit around and pretend its 1956, and if we can legalize cannabis
so enough of the liberals are too stoned to give a rip what you do, peace will
prevail on the American political scene. :-)

The late 50's were a good time for most Americans. Life was simpler,
the government was smaller, and we didn't have a bunch of people
protesting every little thing they didn't personally agree with.

People had respect rather than contempt for other people's opinions.

The term "Majority rule" actually carried some weight.

People pulled their own weight, and were actually ashamed when they
couldn't for even a short time.

Families and small communities rallied around the needy and took care
of those who were temporarily down on their luck.

The majority of people celebrated the "Christmas" season for the month
of December. Decorations adorned most towns, and Christmas music
blared out of radio speakers. Those who didn't celebrate Christmas
took it on the chin and went with the flow.

Despite the 1st amendment's call for a separation of church and state,
we still swore an oath on the bible in court or during any "official"
ceremony. We printed "In God We trust" on our money, we hung the 10
commandments on our judicial buildings. And for whatever reason, no
one thought to complain.

One could watch the Cleveland Indians, or the Washington Redskins and
not have to worry if your team would get forced to change its name
because someone was "offended" by the name.

You could watch TV without having to worry if your children would be
exposed to graphic violence or gratuitous sex. Somehow the writers of
those same TV shows could produce some really good shows without
having to resort to such carnal attractions.

You could work hard in school, graduate with honors, and be assured of
a decent job, without the worry that you might get turned away due to
"quota filling".

The term "gay" meant happy. Aids were people who worked in the
library.

The term politically correct wasn't in anyone's vernacular.


I'm sure If I really wanted to, I could come up with a bunch more.

Dave

I'm sure If I really wanted to, I could come up with a bunch more.

Dave



But they would all say the same thing: Certain groups were granted extra-legal
privilege and status merely because they were more numerous and that was the
way it had *always* been done.

On 08 Nov 2004 18:54:03 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I'm sure If I really wanted to, I could come up with a bunch more.

Dave



But they would all say the same thing: Certain groups were granted extra-legal
privilege and status merely because they were more numerous and that was the
way it had *always* been done.

What "extra" privilege? They all had to pull their own weight. What
"privilege" they had, they EARNED.

We didn't need a social safety net, because no one would be caught
dead with the shame that would accompany someone on public assistance.

Dave

What "extra" privilege? They all had to pull their own weight. What
"privilege" they had, they EARNED.

How did they earn the right to devote a portion of the public school day to
Christian religious practice, (all the while demanding that non-Christians
either participate or just shut the f up- out of a respect the more numerous
demanded but were unwilling to demonstate in return)?

How did they earn the right to send people they felt were inferior to
designated
rest rooms, drinking fountains, the back row or second floor in a theater, and
substandard employment opportunities?

How does anyone earn the right to be a self righteous, intolerant, bigot, (and
put those prejudices into the core of the social fabric)?

How did you guys earn the right to ruin the
lives and reputations of thousands of innocent people in the McCarthy political
witch hunt?

We didn't need a social safety net, because no one would be caught
dead with the shame that would accompany someone on public assistance.

Funny comment from a guy who probably enjoys, as most Americans do, subsidized
housing (tax break for home mortgage interest), subsidized education (publicly
funded schools and taxpayer subsidized colleges and universities), a government
funded Ponzi-scheme fantasy retirement system (most people outlive their SS
contributions by many, many years), subsidized medical coverage (medicare,
medicaid, etc).....and like you I could go on and on.

When the public treasury steps up to meet you needs, that's OK- but if it meets
the needs of a seven-year-old child with irresponsible parents or an adult you
deem less worthy than yourself that is a "shame"?

On 09 Nov 2004 16:25:56 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

What "extra" privilege? They all had to pull their own weight. What
"privilege" they had, they EARNED.

How did they earn the right to devote a portion of the public school day to
Christian religious practice, (all the while demanding that non-Christians
either participate or just shut the f up- out of a respect the more numerous
demanded but were unwilling to demonstate in return)?

Them's the breaks when you live in a society where majority rules.
It's what the majority wanted, and it's what they got. The way it
should be. Not the majority's wishes being held hostage to the whining
whims of the small, but highly vocal minority.

How did they earn the right to send people they felt were inferior to
designated
rest rooms, drinking fountains, the back row or second floor in a theater, and
substandard employment opportunities?

Prejudice is a disease for which the cure is often long in coming. But
by mandating quotas, (systemic institutionalized discrimination) and
proliferating the racial divide, it only keeps that prejudice alive,
and in many cases infuriates it.


How does anyone earn the right to be a self righteous, intolerant, bigot, (and
put those prejudices into the core of the social fabric)?

Because some people, actions, and customs are not worthy of tolerance,
as they are abhorrent, decadent, or otherwise immoral. The line has to
be drawn somewhere. Logic says that if you wish to be tolerant, then
the end result is a nation which accepts any behavior no matter how
morally or socially wrong. If not, then the only difference between
you and I, is where we draw the line.

How did you guys earn the right to ruin the
lives and reputations of thousands of innocent people in the McCarthy political
witch hunt?

In every war, there is collateral damage. This is no different.
Although in all honesty, the McCarthy hearings were driven mostly from
paranoia. But it is in the best interests of national security to keep
tabs on subversives who seek to undermine or overthrow our government
and our hard earned way of life.


We didn't need a social safety net, because no one would be caught
dead with the shame that would accompany someone on public assistance.

Funny comment from a guy who probably enjoys, as most Americans do, subsidized
housing (tax break for home mortgage interest),

What, you're spin machine is working overtime now? You expect the
good folks out there to buy into the notion that the government was
doing us all a favor when they "graciously" allowed use to use an
exemption against our OWN MONEY paid in taxes that we shouldn't have
to pay in the first place? Please!

subsidized education (publicly
funded schools and taxpayer subsidized colleges and universities),

Public schools are one of the most inefficient and poorly organized of
all public works. I could take the money that I pay in public school
taxes and get a better quality education at any number of private
schools. That's one reason I favor school vouchers.

a government
funded Ponzi-scheme fantasy retirement system (most people outlive their SS
contributions by many, many years)

That's why I favor privatizing retirement in individual controlled
IRA-type accounts. I don't expect to see dime one from SS. I'm sure
that by the time I retire (God willing), the program will be bankrupt.
That's why I am actively participating in my own 401K. It would be
nice to take my yearly SS contribution and add it to my 401K where I
KNOW it will be there for me, when I need it.

, subsidized medical coverage (medicare,
medicaid, etc).....and like you I could go on and on.

My HMO is company paid. Currently the company extends full medical
benefits to retirees. That could change, but medicare is the least of
my worries.


When the public treasury steps up to meet you needs, that's OK- but if it meets
the needs of a seven-year-old child with irresponsible parents or an adult you
deem less worthy than yourself that is a "shame"?

I don't take anything from public assistance, and there is no reason
why other able bodied people need to.

Dave