Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

BY CARIE L. CALL,
Published by news-press.com on December 19, 2003


Lee County boaters who hit the throttle through state-posted manatee slow
speed zones this weekend may not be breaking the law.

A Lee Circuit Court appellate ruling has Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation Commission officials confused over whether the slow speed
zones can be legally enforced.



http://news-press.com/news/cape/p_031219mantee.html

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

RG wrote:

BY CARIE L. CALL,
Published by news-press.com on December 19, 2003


Lee County boaters who hit the throttle through state-posted manatee slow
speed zones this weekend may not be breaking the law.

A Lee Circuit Court appellate ruling has Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation Commission officials confused over whether the slow speed
zones can be legally enforced.



http://news-press.com/news/cape/p_031219mantee.html




Obviously, then, this is the weekend to get out in your powerboats,
open the throttles and slam into as many manatees as
possible.
Manatees, after all, have no reason to live, not when they get in the
way of powerboaters in a hurry.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Obviously, then, this is the weekend to get out in your powerboats,
open the throttles and slam into as many manatees as
possible.

You are going to have to be doing doughnuts at the end of the FPL discharge
pipes at the power plant. The water temperature is around 61-63 everywhere else
and if there is a manatee there he is dying anyway.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

spoken like a true sailor

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Greg,
Why is he dying?
Paul

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Obviously, then, this is the weekend to get out in your powerboats,
open the throttles and slam into as many manatees as
possible.

You are going to have to be doing doughnuts at the end of the FPL
discharge
pipes at the power plant. The water temperature is around 61-63 everywhere
else
and if there is a manatee there he is dying anyway.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Interesting. Not based on sound science. We have hunting & fishing regs
which are based on whatever science we have, even though it may be imperfect
thus far. I don't know many people who complain about those regulations.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

According to the folks at Mote Marine Labs 67 is about as cold as the water can
be before manatee start becoming cold stressed.
Without FLP the manatee would have migrated south over a month ago.
Now they hang out in the middle of the Okeechobee waterway, the only east-west
route across the peninsula of Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the
median of I-75 and wondering why all the deer keep getting hit.



Greg,
Why is he dying?
Paul


"Greg" wrote in message
The water temperature is around 61-63 everywhere
else
and if there is a manatee there he is dying anyway.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

The thing that makes this unconstitutional is that there is a federal
regulation. This is a state issue.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
The thing that makes this unconstitutional is that there is a federal
regulation. This is a state issue.

So are a number of other wildlife regulations. I suspect it has to do with
one of two things:

1) If the Feds do a study first, they make the regulation

2) If a state stands to **** off a group of some sort, politicians find a
way to get the Feds to make the rule. This keeps the in-state blowjob cycle
intact. We used to call it "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". Now
it's the blowjob cycle.

Some Florida politician didn't want to **** of boaters, so he arranged for
the Feds to do it.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

The 10th amendment says'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to
the people.

For the same reason that "murder" is a state crime, "speeding" should be too.
The only federal crimes, according to the Constitution, are treason and
counterfeiting.
Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

"Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights."

What about natural rights?

"Greg" wrote in message
...
The 10th amendment says'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or
to
the people.

For the same reason that "murder" is a state crime, "speeding" should be
too.
The only federal crimes, according to the Constitution, are treason and
counterfeiting.
Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Bzzzt.

Outside the scope of the discussion, which is a *legal* issues discussion,
not a morality discussion.

Natural rights need some codification before a court can deal with them.

-W

"Eric H" wrote in message
news:AOrFb.50$im3.27@fe01...
"Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim
of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights."

What about natural rights?

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Greg wrote:

The 10th amendment says'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to
the people.

For the same reason that "murder" is a state crime, "speeding" should be too.
The only federal crimes, according to the Constitution, are treason and
counterfeiting.
Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights.

Hey, go for it: kill all the manatees, burn down all the trees, and bury
the spent nuclear rods in your back yard. After all, why should anything
interfere with your Constitutionally granted right to drive your boat at
any speed you like?


--
Email sent to is never read.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

What about natural rights?


We are talking about constitutional law, not natural law. Natural law says the
strong survive. The weak becomes food.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Greg wrote:

What about natural rights?


We are talking about constitutional law, not natural law. Natural law says the
strong survive. The weak becomes food.



Well, then, you should hope you don't meet up with a hungry alligator.
Sadly, of course, man-eating alligators are shot.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Hey, go for it: kill all the manatees

If people actually knew what they were talking about they would know the State
of Florida DOES have plenty of manatee speed zones that are somewhat based on
scientific studies. The federal zone in question is simply a knee jerk reaction
to a law suit against Gail Norton and has no scientific reason to be.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:19:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Some Florida politician didn't want to **** of boaters, so he arranged for
the Feds to do it.

============================================

Not quite true. The "Save The Manatee Club", with the help of a great
deal of bleeding heart animal rights money, mostly northern,
successfully co-opted the federal wild life folks into starting an
anti-boater campaign. The feds in turn co-opted the Corps of
Engineers to withhold permits for dock construction until the state
and local governments fell into line. Non-boating waterfront home
owners who have been harassed by jet skis and the straight pipe go
fast crowd, saw the speed limits as a good thing and joined in the
chorus.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Well, then, you should hope you don't meet up with a hungry alligator.
Sadly, of course, man-eating alligators are shot.

Only a sissy shoots an aligator, You hook them and whack them in the head.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Non-boating waterfront home
owners who have been harassed by jet skis and the straight pipe go
fast crowd, saw the speed limits as a good thing and joined in the
chorus.

The problem with that thought is this federal zone is nowhere near any
homeowner. I really don't care since I don't go up in the river but it becomes
an issue of "when they came for the pick a group I remained silent" ... until
they come for YOU.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Unless you're Steve Erwin.

-W

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Well, then, you should hope you don't meet up with a hungry alligator.
Sadly, of course, man-eating alligators are shot.

Only a sissy shoots an aligator, You hook them and whack them in the head.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Yup, Steve just catches them, molests them a little and turns the loose.

Unless you're Steve Erwin.

-W

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Well, then, you should hope you don't meet up with a hungry alligator.
Sadly, of course, man-eating alligators are shot.

Only a sissy shoots an aligator, You hook them and whack them in the head.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

On 22 Dec 2003 02:42:10 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

The problem with that thought is this federal zone is nowhere near any
homeowner. I really don't care since I don't go up in the river but it becomes
an issue of "when they came for the pick a group I remained silent" ... until
they come for YOU.

================================================== ===

Individually we are relatively powerless. Boat US, however,
represents a powerful and effective lobbying force in Washington. For
reasons that I don't understand they seem to have had little to say
regarding Manatee madness. Perhaps they see it as just a SW Florida
issue but that would be short sighted.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

This is a very small area that is getting massive amounts of national
attention, mostly because the Save The Manatee club spams the whole country
with Action Alerts that have cut paste letters and the Email address of
legislators. This has 15 year old girls in Nebraska effectively making policy
for people 1800 miles away.
I notice the left abhors the same type of thing when the NRA does it.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Nothing is "outside the scope" of rec.boats. That's why its a train wreck
full of chuckles.

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:M3sFb.452051$275.1329244@attbi_s53...

Bzzzt.

Outside the scope of the discussion, which is a *legal* issues discussion,
not a morality discussion.

Natural rights need some codification before a court can deal with them.

-W

"Eric H" wrote in message
news:AOrFb.50$im3.27@fe01...
"Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim
of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights."

What about natural rights?

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Besides, it's been scientifically shown that slower boats hit manatees more
than fast ones. They can't hear the slow ones coming, but seem to be able to
hear the fast ones and get out of the way. Lots of bad science out there
"proving" things that folks with an agenda want "proven".

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Hey, go for it: kill all the manatees

If people actually knew what they were talking about they would know the
State
of Florida DOES have plenty of manatee speed zones that are somewhat based
on
scientific studies. The federal zone in question is simply a knee jerk
reaction
to a law suit against Gail Norton and has no scientific reason to be.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
Greg wrote:

The 10th amendment says'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to
the people.

For the same reason that "murder" is a state crime, "speeding" should be too.
The only federal crimes, according to the Constitution, are treason and
counterfeiting.
Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights.

Hey, go for it: kill all the manatees, burn down all the trees, and bury
the spent nuclear rods in your back yard. After all, why should anything
interfere with your Constitutionally granted right to drive your boat at
any speed you like?


My God man. Why must you always get so hysterical? No one here, not
one of use has advocated burning down trees, storing rods in public
areas, etc. It is just not true. Why must you always carry on like a
14 year old? I just don't get it.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Backyard Renegade wrote:

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
Greg wrote:

The 10th amendment says'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to
the people.

For the same reason that "murder" is a state crime, "speeding" should be too.
The only federal crimes, according to the Constitution, are treason and
counterfeiting.
Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights.

Hey, go for it: kill all the manatees, burn down all the trees, and bury
the spent nuclear rods in your back yard. After all, why should anything
interfere with your Constitutionally granted right to drive your boat at
any speed you like?


My God man. Why must you always get so hysterical? No one here, not
one of use has advocated burning down trees, storing rods in public
areas, etc. It is just not true. Why must you always carry on like a
14 year old? I just don't get it.


Whoooooooosh.




--
Email sent to is never read.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

West Indies Manatees become very susceptible to viruses and die when the
water temp falls to the mid-to-high 50's. They are unnaturally drawn to the
warm-water discharge from FPL's plant along the Caloosahatchee...instead of
swimming back to where they came from.



"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Greg,
Why is he dying?
Paul

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Obviously, then, this is the weekend to get out in your powerboats,
open the throttles and slam into as many manatees as
possible.

You are going to have to be doing doughnuts at the end of the FPL
discharge
pipes at the power plant. The water temperature is around 61-63
everywhere
else
and if there is a manatee there he is dying anyway.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Doug,
The dynamics behind the manatee war has more to do with a group of
"preservationists" who oppose increased use of the waterways down here. The
Save the Manatee's founding principles may have been to protect the manatee.
However, its current agenda is to remove as many powerboats from the waters
by finding means to restrict access. Most of its members are either
non-boaters...or waterfront property owners who already have *their* dock
and don't want anybody else out on *their* waterways. Here's an admission of
"Fact" from their own website:

MYTH #7: If the government adopts additional manatee sanctuaries and
refuges, shoreline property owners will not be able to have boat access to
their land.


FACT: There would be 100% access by boat to shoreline property by property
owners and their guests but not by the general boating public. In addition
to protecting manatees in essential habitat, this limitation on boat traffic
would help protect both natural shorelines and seawalls from erosion and
allow for more backyard privacy. It would help protect boats moored adjacent
to private property from the wakes of passing boats and cut down on noise.
It would also help prevent theft and vandalism.

To summarize one *why* SMC is for slow speed zones:
1) limit boat traffic to protect seawalls
2) limit boat traffic to allow more backyard privacy
3) protect boats moored to adjacent private property from the wakes of
passing boats
4) cut down noise (in their backyards)
5) prevent theft and vandalism (what does speed have to do with that!)



As boat owners, everybody here should be outraged. It's not about manatees!





"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Interesting. Not based on sound science. We have hunting & fishing regs
which are based on whatever science we have, even though it may be
imperfect
thus far. I don't know many people who complain about those regulations.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Greg" wrote in message
...
The thing that makes this unconstitutional is that there is a federal
regulation. This is a state issue.

So are a number of other wildlife regulations. I suspect it has to do with
one of two things:

1) If the Feds do a study first, they make the regulation

2) If a state stands to **** off a group of some sort, politicians find a
way to get the Feds to make the rule. This keeps the in-state blowjob
cycle
intact. We used to call it "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". Now
it's the blowjob cycle.

Some Florida politician didn't want to **** of boaters, so he arranged for
the Feds to do it.

No. Save the Manatee sued the Feds and got a "back-room" settlement. Gale
Norton decided not to enforce the settlement and was forced by a
Clinton-appointed US district court judge (Emmitt Sullivan--the same guy
that ordered the release of Cheney's task force energy documents) to enact
the zones or be held in contempt. Sullivan sits on a bench in DC, not
Florida...and knows nothing about manatees except what SMC tells him.

Here's the enemy:
http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sullivan-bio.html

In response, Norton instituted the zones...but the Feds don't have the
resources to enforce them. :-)

Now, local law enforcement is refusing to do the Fed's dirty work. :-)

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Greg wrote:

The 10th amendment says'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively,
or to
the people.

For the same reason that "murder" is a state crime, "speeding" should be
too.
The only federal crimes, according to the Constitution, are treason and
counterfeiting.
Some federal use the 14th amendment to expand federal powers in the aim
of
insuring HUMAN rights but manatee have no constitutional rights.

Hey, go for it: kill all the manatees, burn down all the trees, and bury
the spent nuclear rods in your back yard. After all, why should anything
interfere with your Constitutionally granted right to drive your boat at
any speed you like?


The manatee issue isn't about manatees.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Non-boating waterfront home
owners who have been harassed by jet skis and the straight pipe go
fast crowd, saw the speed limits as a good thing and joined in the
chorus.

The problem with that thought is this federal zone is nowhere near any
homeowner

That's not true. The entire coastline along the banks of the Caloosahatchee
has homes.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

FACT: There would be 100% access by boat to shoreline property by property
owners and their guests but not by the general boating public.

That "fact" is bull****. They are still holding up dock permits in spite of an
order to start permitting again.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Greg,
Okay now I understand your statement. Thanks.
Paul

"Greg" wrote in message
...
According to the folks at Mote Marine Labs 67 is about as cold as the
water can
be before manatee start becoming cold stressed.
Without FLP the manatee would have migrated south over a month ago.
Now they hang out in the middle of the Okeechobee waterway, the only
east-west
route across the peninsula of Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in
the
median of I-75 and wondering why all the deer keep getting hit.



Greg,
Why is he dying?
Paul


"Greg" wrote in message
The water temperature is around 61-63 everywhere
else
and if there is a manatee there he is dying anyway.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

Clams,
I like that free diver Manny. He goes down and tickles the alligator
under its mouth and the thing just sort of goes to sleep. Pretty much the
same as flipping over a shark and rubbing its belly. How in the heck did
they ever figure this out? How many hands and fingers were lost in the
process? Sort of makes me wonder how they ever came up with Long Island Ice
tea, I mean, who'd have thought that five different types of liquor would
end up tasting like ice tea? How many different things did they try first,
and how long was the hangover?
Paul

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:IBtFb.174475$_M.796605@attbi_s54...
Unless you're Steve Erwin.

-W

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Well, then, you should hope you don't meet up with a hungry alligator.
Sadly, of course, man-eating alligators are shot.

Only a sissy shoots an aligator, You hook them and whack them in the
head.

Manatee speed rules unconstituitional?
 

odd, on the north fork of the st. lucie river, all the manatee zones are on the
blind curves,, concidence, or misuse of a manatee zone,, YOU DECIDE!
Sterling