OT Howard Dean and America
Please, righties, read with an open mind:
From Jon Carrol: An acquaintance of mine, Ted Webster, has thought of a fine bumper sticker. Goes like this: "If Dean Is Too Liberal Why Don't We All Just Shoot Ourselves?" Yes, the dangerous radical who threatens our very way of life is the last in a long line of zany socialistic Vermont governors. They're almost Canadian. Leftie Dean cut state income twice and cut the state sales tax entirely, and increased prison terms for felons. He is also, of course, opposed to an unprovoked invasion of a foreign country. He is opposed to lying about the reasons for the attack. This used to be an honorable opinion. In the past, opposition to war often came from people who'd served in the previous one. That opinion was treated seriously, even when it was wrong. Franklin Roosevelt thought it was necessary to convince the American public that war against the Germans and Japanese was a good idea. His main opposition came from conservative Republican senators. Everyone understood why they did not want to get involved in a European struggle -- the horror that was World War I was less than 20 years in the past. Vietnam is almost 30 years away; you'd think we might at least entertain the notion that fighting a war half a world away is a bad idea. So it used to be OK to hold an opinion different from that held by the president of the United States. Now doing so leaves you open for accusations of treason, which is how Howard Dean got to be the fighting liberal. Swell. Howard Dean said the United States was rendered "no safer" by the capture of Saddam Hussein. This is of course true; no one seriously disputes it. It may be that the capture of Saddam Hussein makes American soldiers in Iraq safer, although it's too soon to know that. Let us hope it does; if Iraq turns into a grinding war of attrition, we'll be chin deep in the Big Muddy with rain predicted. I'm not sure whether you were watching television when Dean made his statement. It was like a bomb going off. Commentators could not believe their ears. The look on their faces was precious. It was all, "Am I going to lose my job for allowing that on the air?" Those guys and gals seem to be a little nervous. So here we all were, rejoicing over the bad dental work and scruffy appearance of the onetime dictator, and here Dean was raining on our parade. Typical Vermont behavior -- Calvin Coolidge was no fun at parties either. So let's review briefly why the capture of Saddam Hussein does not make America any safer. On Sept. 11, 2001, there was an unprovoked attack on American cities. It shortly emerged that this attack was the work of radical Muslims, what we now call "Jihadists" to differentiate them from the vast majority of non-radical non-murderous Muslims. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a secular nation. Its women were unveiled; the sexes mingled freely in public places; Shariah was not the law of the land. Thus and therefore, it is unlikely that Iraq had anything to do with the Sept. 11 attacks, despite the administration's attempt to dig up at least one meeting between someone and someone else somewhere. It is generally agreed that Osama bin Laden was responsible for those attacks. Bin Laden is now almost certainly holed up in Pakistan, our wonderful ally and great good friend. In other words: The guy who actually attacked us is getting a free ride (and also helping in the effort to destabilize Afghanistan, our other client state in the region), while a guy who had nothing to do with attacking us is in custody. So what Howard Dean said is not radical or remarkable or innovative. I mean, he's an interesting guy, and I might even find myself voting for him, but he's not Roosevelt or anything. He just hasn't signed on to the Official Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz worldview, which makes him a suspicious character indeed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One really interesting thing about Bush is his iron discipline at news conferences. No matter what the question, he says what he came into the room to say. It doesn't even need to make sense. |
OT Howard Dean and America
|
OT Howard Dean and America
basskisser wrote:
Please, righties, read with an open mind: Always happy to try & keep up with the latest left spruik:-) From Jon Carrol: An acquaintance of mine, Ted Webster, has thought of a fine bumper sticker. Goes like this: "If Dean Is Too Liberal Why Don't We All Just Shoot Ourselves?" Yes, the dangerous radical who threatens our very way of life is the last in a long line of zany socialistic Vermont governors. They're almost Canadian. So it seems the very fears the world hold about this lefty loon are true!!! Even his own side agree this is the perception??? So there must be some reason millions hold it??? Leftie Dean cut state income twice and cut the state sales tax entirely, and increased prison terms for felons. Gee now there a classic lefty tactic, take a couple of things & say that specifies the bloke; come on atl man even you're not that stupid, or are you?? So I guess he played golf the rest of the time?? or was he busy doing lefty governor stuff, like telling people how to live their lives, or passing laws redistributing wealth from those that work to earn it to those that just claim it; Harry style?? He is also, of course, opposed to an unprovoked invasion of a foreign country. So he's a liar then yes?? The provocation was the sneek attack on a civilian city which killed thousands of non military people. That was the provocation, there were a few others also, afghanistan?? they were a base for the attackers & wouldn't/couldn't do anything about it, Iraq, it was seen as a risk so you gave them endless opportunities to just comply with the efforts to verify the truth, however they chose to play games & thumb their nose at you so they were easily taken over. So now your boy Dean is just another lying BS lefty like Harry. He is opposed to lying about the reasons for the attack. There were no lies from the Pres. he was acting in good faith on the material provided, the thing is at any time saddam could have come clean & just let full open unhindered inspections, however they didn't. I bet the next dictator will now:-) Libya just came ti heel why??? becasue it's clear they better start behaving or ................. This used to be an honorable opinion. It's not an "opinion" it's a typical fabricated lie from the left, have a look at Harry he just fabricates lies, seems this Dean bloke does likewise. In the past, opposition to war often came from people who'd served in the previous one. That opinion was treated seriously, even when it was wrong. Franklin Roosevelt thought it was necessary to convince the American public that war against the Germans and Japanese was a good idea. His main opposition came from conservative Republican senators. Everyone understood why they did not want to get involved in a European struggle -- the horror that was World War I was less than 20 years in the past. Vietnam is almost 30 years away; you'd think we might at least entertain the notion that fighting a war half a world away is a bad idea. What a load of waffle, total crap. The attack on you was worse than Pearl Harbour, worse that most any attack in history, that is was unprovoked & completely on innocent citizens means your cry baby cowards corner BS is seen for what it is. So it used to be OK to hold an opinion different from that held by the president of the United States. Now doing so leaves you open for accusations of treason, which is how Howard Dean got to be the fighting liberal. Swell. You (& us) are at war!!!! Don't you get it yet?? These people want to come into your cities & kill people en mass!!! So yes to give then support while it might not be "treason" it's certainly sick behaviour, for anyone trying for the office of president to be doing it is dangerous in the extreme. Howard Dean said the United States was rendered "no safer" by the capture of Saddam Hussein. This is of course true; no one seriously disputes it. I do!!! Many of "his" followers will go way now = safer for the US, Those who imagined somehow that he would get back into power?? have now seen they won't = safer for US. Those countries that opposed you france & fgmy will be seen for what they are & have through history always been lefty cowards & sympathisers = safer US, When he spills the beans over the next few years about all sorts of things Bush will be easily re-elected = safer US. It may be that the capture of Saddam Hussein makes American soldiers in Iraq safer, although it's too soon to know that. Let us hope it does; if Iraq turns into a grinding war of attrition, we'll be chin deep in the Big Muddy with rain predicted. Iraq is won, get used to it, there will be ongoing terrorist attacks, mainly moslem against iraqi but over time that will settle & democracy will be real in yet another country for the benefit of the people & the overall benefit of the US. I'm not sure whether you were watching television when Dean made his statement. It was like a bomb going off. Commentators could not believe their ears. The look on their faces was precious. It was all, "Am I going to lose my job for allowing that on the air?" Those guys and gals seem to be a little nervous. So here we all were, rejoicing over the bad dental work and scruffy appearance of the onetime dictator, and here Dean was raining on our parade. Typical Vermont behavior -- Calvin Coolidge was no fun at parties either. So let's review briefly why the capture of Saddam Hussein does not make America any safer. On Sept. 11, 2001, there was an unprovoked attack on American cities. It shortly emerged that this attack was the work of radical Muslims, what we now call "Jihadists" to differentiate them from the vast majority of non-radical non-murderous Muslims. Gee you are sick people you really are, on the one hand you play up the ongoing terrorist attacks as Bush's fault on the other you say 911 wasn't the terrorists fault, you're sick nothing much else. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a secular nation. Its women were unveiled; the sexes mingled freely in public places; Shariah was not the law of the land. Thus and therefore, it is unlikely that Iraq had anything to do with the Sept. 11 attacks, despite the administration's attempt to dig up at least one meeting between someone and someone else somewhere. Unlikely?? Gee now there';s more of the lefts' BS & rumour spreading, but no matter as time goes on saddam will help join the dots & it will all get reported over time. I'll enjoy watching the left under the drip I really will!! It is generally agreed that Osama bin Laden was responsible for those attacks. Bin Laden is now almost certainly holed up in Pakistan, our wonderful ally and great good friend. In other words: The guy who actually attacked us is getting a free ride (and also helping in the effort to destabilize Afghanistan, our other client state in the region), while a guy who had nothing to do with attacking us is in custody. So the left is going to put it's hands over it's ears & eyes but keep telling lies at the top of it's voice?? Gee this is going to be better than even I had hoped!!! So what Howard Dean said is not radical or remarkable or innovative. I mean, he's an interesting guy, and I might even find myself voting for him, but he's not Roosevelt or anything. He just hasn't signed on to the Official Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz worldview, which makes him a suspicious character indeed. He's desperate is what he is & that the left would even consider him means they've given up already. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One really interesting thing about Bush is his iron discipline at news conferences. No matter what the question, he says what he came into the room to say. It doesn't even need to make sense. But it usually does, just most of the uneducated left can't understand it. K Here's some of Harry's lies for you, just to bring back old memories:-) I'm doing my part to ease unemployment. I'm hiring another writer for my staff. Will be putting the ad on MONSTER.COM and in the Wash Post. I need more staff because 2004 is a major election year and business booked to date indicates we'll be drowning in work. We need to hire a production coordinator, too. It has very little to do with the state of the economy, other than using it as reason to defeat Republicrap candidates. I'm doing my part to ease unemployment. I'm hiring another writer for my staff. Will be putting the ad on MONSTER.COM and in the Wash Post. We have first-class benefits, including a top-of-the-line health insurance plan, a non-contributory defined-benefit pension plan, a 401k, and a life insurance policy equal to annual salary. We contribute a share of profits to the 401k on behalf of the employee. Our employees pay $4.50 for generic prescriptions and $8.00 for non-generics, but that's going up next year to $10 and $15. New employees get two weeks vacation the first year, and that goes to three weeks the third year. In addition, we have 12 paid holidays and we shut down from noon on Christmas eve to the day after New Year's Day. We also provide 20 days of paid sick leave a year. And we have an outside company administering pre-tax flexible bennies for our employees. Our fringe benefit package follows the trade union model, except, of course, for the profit contributions to 401k's. Trade unions are not-for-profit enterprises. How do these compare to the bennies at your shop? Paid? Every year? I call "bull****". With 3 weeks vacation, 12 paid holidays, and 20 paid sick days that's 47 *paid* days off every year. Are they hourly employees? For a "small business", that's the road to bankruptcy. Boy...and you had me going there for a minute. Not quite so simple, though you are trying hard to make it so. Our business is up because we're on the cusp of an election year. Our business always goes up in a major election year. You could say we're going to be doing very well in 2004 because Bush is such a total failure. The 20 paid sick days aren't part of the "paid" days off unless those days are used. None of our people abuses sick leave. In fact, no one as yet has even come close to using 20 sick days in one year. They're there in case they're needed. Oh, I forgot. We also provide everyone with LTD. The company provides an insurance plan that pays 50% of an employe's salary for Long Term Disability. Employes have the option of purchasing an additional 16.66%, bringing their total to 66.66%. The basic benefit maximum is $4,000 per month. With the buy up, the limit is increased to $10,000 per month. Here's just some of his prior lies (in his own words pasted); I sold off nearly $3,000,000 in new motors and boats, depressing the new boat industry in southern Connecticut for an entire season. Everything was sold...every cotter pin, every quart of oil, 30 days after I started. For near full-retail, too. He had just under $1,000,000 on floor plan with a syndicate of banks led by National Shawmut of Boston. He had been a solid customer of that back for more than 20 years and they gave him great rates. As far as your other complaints, well, almost every president in my memory, and I *remember* Truman, Eisenhower (who cheated on his wife), Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush, lied and participated in deceit to one degree or another, and on issues far more important than who was giving them blow jobs. Good lord. I met *every* president in the damned group except Bush, and I worked once for his father. My father used to pray that the north shore of LI Sound would be hit by a mild hurricane. No one injured, no on-shore property damaged, but lots of boats sunk. Preferably early in July. We had the Hatteras for two years. Last year, out of the cold clear, a broker approached me with an offer to buy. Our continued Florida lifestyle was somewhat up in the air, because the two breadwinners hereabouts were about to be offered long-term but temporary assignments they could not refuse in the Washington, D.C., area. So, after being romanced a little, we sold the Hatt for almost precisely what we paid for it. Not bad, after two full years of use. And I mean full years. So, we didn't "make" any money off the Hatt, but we didn't lose any, either. The proceeds were prudently invested. The PWC was won as a prize in a raffle. Never mind that. Why does he have a Bilgeliner in front of his office? Is it a display of "Boating Don'ts?" Yeah, when we were in the boat biz, my father always had one or two "around the back" that he was forced to take in trade. These were sold as "as is, where is." He made sure the engine would start and run. Beyond that, it was up to the prospective buyer to decide if he wanted it. They moved off the lot pretty quickly, partially because my dad's main store was on a highly trafficked commercial route with lots of manufacturing and machining and aerospace plants near by. In those days, workers at these places could fix anything. Actually, Dipper, I don't think my father ever saw a Bayliner. But he still called bumpers bumpers. -- Bayliner wined and dined my father a half dozen times to entice him into becoming its dealer. His operation was the largest small boat dealership in its area of New England, and for 30 years, he was the *exclusive* Evinrude dealer in a densely populated coastal county. He also handled Mercuries. He never liked Bayliners, and referred to them as "jerry-built." From 1947 until he died, he sold more than 500 outboard motors a year from his stores, accounting for a reasonably high percentage of *all* outboards sold in his home state for those years. This is a killer. My father was in the boat business dating back to right after the Big War. When he died and I was looking through his warehouse, I found wrapped in a nuclear fall-out bag (no kidding), a brand-new 1949 Evinrude 8015 50 hp outboard. The motor was a gift to my father from Evinrude for winning some outboard stock utility or hydroplane race. I gave the motor to a friend of my dad's, who worked at the shop as head mechanic. I don't believe he ever used it and I'm sure it is still brand-new. I have no idea who might own it now. He also built boats, and I worked on a few, both wood, glass covered wood and all fiberglass. After he died, however, we sold the biz and I've just been an occasional boat owner. Besides, I worked off and on in the boat business and inherited it when he died. So, as I said, I'm knee-deep in boat heritage. Oh, and I had some friends who died in the service, too, but it wasn't for what they believed in. They were drafted, shipped to Vietnam and came back in body bags. During the war, he turned out experimental brass shell casings for the Army and hopped up outboards for the Navy, which wanted to use them on smaller landing craft. I had photos at one time of my father with Ole Evinrude himself. My mother knew one of Evinrude's wives...she was a minor movie star or singer...I forgot which. Maybe both. Have you ever sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii? I have. Have you ever rounded Cape Horn? I have, twice. Have you ever transited the Panama Canal? I have. Have you owned more than 20 boats in your lifetime? I have. Have you ever sailed large boats competitively? I have. Have you ever been hundreds of miles from land in a powerboat under your command? I have. My father and his chief mechanic once crossed the Atlantic in winter in a 22' boat powered by twin outboards. Yes, it is possible, even the fuel. Got a "fireboat" welcome in NYC. Here are some: Hatteras 43' sportfish Swan 41' racing/cruising sloop Morgan 33 O'Day 30 Cruisers, Inc., Mackinac 22 Century Coronado Bill Luders 16, as sweet a sailboat as ever caught a breeze. Century 19' wood lapstrake with side wheel steering Cruisers, Inc. 18' and 16' wood lapstrakes Wolverines. Molded plywood. Gorgeous. Several. 14,15,17 footers with various Evinrudes Lighting class sailboat Botved Coronet with twin 50 hp Evinrudes. Interesting boat. Aristocraft (a piece of junk...13', fast, held together with spit) Alcort Sunfish Ancarrow Marine Aquiflyer. 22' footer with two Caddy Crusaders. Guaranteed 60 mph. In the late 1950's. Skimmar brand skiff Arkansas Traveler fiberglass bowrider (I think it was a bowrider) Dyer Dhow Su-Mark round bilge runabout, fiberglass Penn Yan runabouts. Wood. Old Town wood and canvas canoe Old Town sailing canoe...different than above canoe Sometime in the early 1960s, I was driving back from Ft. Leonard Wood to Kansas City in a nice old MGA I owned at the time. About halfway home it started raining heavily, I turned on the wipers, and EVERY SINGLE electrical accessory and light in the car flashed on, there was a large popping sound and it all blew out at once. And the car caught fire. I pulled over to the side of the road, watched the fire, removed my license plate and hitched on home. For all I know, that old MGA is still there. Sure was a pretty little car. Puh-lease, Karen. You've not seen nor have I ever posted one example of my professional writings on building structure and the effects on it of hurricane-force winds and seismic activity. I haven't done any of these in at least 10 year, but at the time I was field researching, photographing and writing these reports, they were quite accurate, topical and well-received by their intended audiences. A small fleet of Polar skiffs were purchased by an inshore bait, tackle and boat rental business on the ICW in NE Florida. These boats were not used on open waters. Within 90 days, cracks developed in the liners that also served as the deck over the flotation in the bottom of the hulls. A guide I know, one whose boats and engines are supplied to him by manufacturers, also had a Polar skiff go bad on him for the same reasons -liner and then hull fractures. Harry has claimed to have a 20 yrs his junior beautiful wife, he even put a fake pic of a beautiful woman on a website once claiming it was his "young bride", he may have a wife, although I doubt it, we don't like nor tolerate misogynists for long. Needless to say he's made up many "dramatic" over the top stories over the years about this lie to feed his ego & pretend he's the centre of attention, but as with his boat claims & other crap, there's never once been even a shred of independently verifiable material. After he stalked Madcow in real life, which was most frightening, I do suspect he's very very dangerous & that this "bride" story is his delusional appropriation of his, probably court ordered, treating psychotherapist as "wife" (it seems he was under lock & key for what?? over a year??? a sexual deviant maybe??), have a read of just a small part of his BS & make up your own mind, it's all about free choice:-) 1. She *is* my bride. There are no rules that determine the end of "bride-hood." If I want to refer to her as my bride, I may. 2. As a professional writer, I know the rules of language and am entitled to break them in exercise of my license. 3. I doubt many married women would object to their husbands lovingly referring to them as brides. The connotations are pleasant. 4. She's 20 years younger than I am. Naw. What happened was that I handled a couple of "political" consulting jobs funded out of the DC area to help a few candidates and defeat a couple of ballot issues. Through no fault of mine, we won each of the races, so some of the deep pockets types based in the DC area think I actually *know something* about the process. I was offered a contract that requires my presence in DC quite frequently. My bride also was offered a job up here that represented a significant professional career move. So, we're "up here" much of the time and "down there" the rest of it, except when we're "somewhere else." I've been back to Jax (well, really south of Jax) five times since coming "up here" late last summer and my bride just returned from a business trip there. I swear this is true. Here's a funny. My bride had to fly out to San Diego Wednesday and hitched a ride on her company's corporate jet. They landed in Salina, Kansas, which is due north of Wichita and Skippy's suburb of Derby. So when she gets to San Diego, I get a call asking, "What the hell did you do in Kansas...we didn't fly over one significant patch of water...?" Harry, you make over 500 posts a week to this group and you don't own a boat? And why are you so crabby? Maybe these two factors are related? One has to own something to use it? Hmmm. My bride drives off in her car every day, but she doesn't own it. I'm not crabby. You asked for advice I gave you some. I questioned your wanting to take a very small boat out into high seas and suddenly you turned sour. It's your pot; you are the one stewing in it. No, it is the boat of a friend. It is a 24' ProLine center console with, if I recall, a 225 hp Merc on it. It was a dark and stormy day in January (1997) when we went out, but the sky cleared once we got out to the Gulf Stream. Bride and I caught and released: 1 white marlin 12-15 yellowtail snappers, maybe two pounds each. Pretty, pretty fish. Assorted red snappers 1 amberjack 2 jack crevalle jacks 1 snook Nondescript sharks Did you spend a year as a line psychotherapist at a 650-bed state hospital for forensic patients? Did you spend a year as senior psychotherapist at a county facility for substance abusers? Did you spend two years as chief of therapy at a private, 200-bed facility for the mentally and emotionally ill, at which approximately half the patients were trying to beat drugs or alcohol? Are you currently chief of therapy for a for a multi-practitioner practice of some 825 patients, about a third of which are seeking help for substance abuse problems? Licensed psychotherapist Screening as to character and background for each degree earned On-going screening by faculty while in educational system Interviews and screenings for required years of internships, plus, at the same time, supervision by a licensed professional. Close professional and personal supervision by a licensed therapist for two years of employment before being allowed to apply for licensure Licensure background check, submission of recommendations by licensed practitioners Four hour written examination on state laws Five hour written examination on diagnosis, procedure and practice My wife went through this before becoming licensed. Her final internship was as a psychotherapist at a 600-bed high security state psychiatric hospital where, on a daily basis, she was exposed to more danger than your average soldier. My wife worked for a year as psychotherapist in a Florida 600-bed state mental institution for forensic patients. She saw and treated numerous sexual deviants who do a bit more than expose themselves. Such "treatment" is part of being in the mental health professions. You see, I'm a nautical psychotherapist, and for only $125 an hour, until their health insurance runs out, I help Bayliner owners overcome their feelings of boatable inadequacy. She is a licensed, practicing psychotherapist and often tells me I am the sanest person she sees each day. Which can be taken any way one likes. 1. I'm married to a psychotherapist. Live-in therapy, dontcha know? And much of Freud is passe. My ex-wife surpassed the anti-Christ at least a decade ago. They're not actually "free" moments. I go to boat dealers to round-up Bayliner owners who are trying to find one who will take their own version of flotsam and jetsam in on trade. 1. The address listed is not a home address. It is an office. 2. I have three phone numbers. The phone number listed is not one of mine. It has never been one of mine. The phone number *did* belong to an after-hours message recording hotline my wife maintained for her most mentally disturbed patients. Some of these troubled souls were court-ordered referrals. *Every* call to that phone number--every call--was recorded AND because of the nature of the line, my wife had the ability to alert the telephone company to trace the phone number of every incoming call to that line, *even* if the person making the call tried to block his number. Why, you might ask? Because when you are dealing with suicidal people, they'll liable to tell their therapist over the phone that they are planning to take their life. If the therapist believes the threat is real, she or he will want to dispatch emergency srvices and perhaps the police. In the years my wife has provided this pro bono service, she has never received a threatening or abusive call from a mentally ill patient or court-ordered referral. However, after the ranking Flaming Ass of this newsgroup posted the hotline number in this newsgroup, she received a number of abusive, foul-mouthed AND life-threatening calls. These were mostly directed at me but, of course, I never received them BECAUSE (duh!) the phone is not mine and I've never answered it. Naturally, my wife alerted the authorities, with whom she works closely because of her court-referred patients. The authorities are investigating the callers and have involved both the FBI *and* authorities in other states, including Florida, Georgia, California and Texas. Working with the telephone company, the authorities have been able to trace the origin of virtually every abusive call. And, of course, they have the tape recordings of the abusive messages. Several suspects have been identified. I really don't know what the outcome of all this will be. We haven't had an update in several weeks, nor are either of us here that interested in the sleazeballs that would make such calls. The phone number, of course, is "wired," so when the obnoxious calls came in from the idiot rec.boaters, the numbers were easy enough to trace. The local police handled a complaint, the local telco was involved and when it was discovered the point of origin was out of state, the FBI got involved. At least one of the idiots was caught and prosecuted. As far as I can tell, he has not posted here again |
OT Howard Dean and America
"basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. |
OT Howard Dean and America
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:29 +0000, NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. Yup, it seems a rather stupid thing to do when running for President. But in fairness, how about GWB's records. http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...es/000897.html |
OT Howard Dean and America
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:29 +0000, NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. Yup, it seems a rather stupid thing to do when running for President. But in fairness, how about GWB's records. http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...es/000897.html I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The only good things to come out of Vermont are maple syrup, and Ben & Jerry's ice cream (the product...not the men). |
OT Howard Dean and America
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:20:02 +0000, NOYB wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:29 +0000, NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. Yup, it seems a rather stupid thing to do when running for President. But in fairness, how about GWB's records. http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...es/000897.html I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The link was referring to GWB's records while Governor of Texas. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:20:02 +0000, NOYB wrote: "thunder" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:29 +0000, NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. Yup, it seems a rather stupid thing to do when running for President. But in fairness, how about GWB's records. http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...es/000897.html I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The link was referring to GWB's records while Governor of Texas. The link made a one-sentence reference to GWB's record while governor...but there was no further mention of it. That was the first time I even heard mention of him having his records sealed from the time he was governor. Any further specifics on the allegation? |
OT Howard Dean and America
NOYB wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:20:02 +0000, NOYB wrote: "thunder" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:29 +0000, NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. Yup, it seems a rather stupid thing to do when running for President. But in fairness, how about GWB's records. http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...es/000897.html I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The link was referring to GWB's records while Governor of Texas. The link made a one-sentence reference to GWB's record while governor...but there was no further mention of it. That was the first time I even heard mention of him having his records sealed from the time he was governor. Any further specifics on the allegation? It's not an allegation. -- Email sent to is never read. |
OT Howard Dean and America
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:40:33 +0000, NOYB wrote:
The link made a one-sentence reference to GWB's record while governor...but there was no further mention of it. That was the first time I even heard mention of him having his records sealed from the time he was governor. Any further specifics on the allegation? From the above link: " Dean's right, in a sense, about Bush. The former Texas governor had his gubernatorial records sent to his father's presidential library at Texas A&M, where they are kept from public scrutiny (requests have to go through the state's attorney general's office, who just happens to be a close Bush ally)." Upon further reading, GWB's records were moved back into state custody in July 2002, after "a Texas attorney general's opinion had established that they were subject to the state's open-records law." I agree with you, Dean should unseal his records. It is a stupid thing for a candidate to do and GWB should also have been held to task for it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...¬Found=true |
OT Howard Dean and America
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:40:33 +0000, NOYB wrote: The link made a one-sentence reference to GWB's record while governor...but there was no further mention of it. That was the first time I even heard mention of him having his records sealed from the time he was governor. Any further specifics on the allegation? From the above link: " Dean's right, in a sense, about Bush. The former Texas governor had his gubernatorial records sent to his father's presidential library at Texas A&M, where they are kept from public scrutiny (requests have to go through the state's attorney general's office, who just happens to be a close Bush ally)." Upon further reading, GWB's records were moved back into state custody in July 2002, after "a Texas attorney general's opinion had established that they were subject to the state's open-records law." I agree with you, Dean should unseal his records. It is a stupid thing for a candidate to do and GWB should also have been held to task for it. Nevertheless, Dean made this statement: "I'll unseal mine if he'll (Bush) unseal all of his" If Bush's records are "unsealed" now, isn't about time Dean kept his promise to unseal his? |
OT Howard Dean and America
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:48:19 +0000, NOYB wrote:
If Bush's records are "unsealed" now, isn't about time Dean kept his promise to unseal his? Yup. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:48:19 +0000, NOYB wrote: If Bush's records are "unsealed" now, isn't about time Dean kept his promise to unseal his? Yup. Think he will? |
OT Howard Dean and America
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 07:26:00 +0000, NOYB wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:48:19 +0000, NOYB wrote: If Bush's records are "unsealed" now, isn't about time Dean kept his promise to unseal his? Yup. Think he will? I've been doing a little reading on this tonight and a couple of things have come to light. Bush's records aren't quite as "unsealed" as it would appear. The decision of access is left to the Texas AG. http://www.thevictoriaadvocate.com/o...-1820174c.html As for Dean's records, he has decided to leave the decision to release the records in the hands of a judge. I would also warn that there is probably no "smoking gun", as sealing a portion of records seems to be pretty standard. Personally, I think he should release them. In a democracy, open government is important. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/2278349 http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/s...s/dean/174.htm |
OT Howard Dean and America
On 21 Dec 2003 00:57:14 -0600, noah wrote:
On 19 Dec 2003 09:31:05 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: Snipped -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One really interesting thing about Bush is his iron discipline at news conferences. No matter what the question, he says what he came into the room to say. It doesn't even need to make sense. bk, I really can't pretend that GWB makes any sense at all. Somebody ought to tell him, though, that "nucular" is not a word. It's difficult to trust someone that doesn't speak English. Whether they're Iraqi, or Texan. This Off-topic post is offered as appeasement to the OT Gods, in hopes that they will reconsider. Regards, noah noah, by "OT God" are you referring your worship of Harry? And, BTW, be sure to read what the Washington Post is saying about Dean. Doesn't sound too good, especially coming from a more liberal newspaper. ************************** Dean's Remarks Give Rivals Talking Points His Readiness to Lead Is Questioned By Jim VandeHei and Jonathan Finer Washington Post Staff Writers Thursday, December 18, 2003; Page A01 BURLINGTON, Vt. -- Howard Dean's penchant for flippant and sometimes false statements is generating increased criticism from his Democratic presidential rivals and raising new questions about his ability to emerge as a nominee who can withstand intense, sustained scrutiny and defeat President Bush. Dean, for instance, recently spoke of a "most interesting theory" that Saudi Arabia had "warned" Bush about the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Although Dean said he does not believe Bush was tipped off about the assaults that killed nearly 3,000, he has made no apologies for raising the rumor. "How is what I did different from what Dick Cheney or George Bush . . . did during the time of the buildup of the invasion of Iraq?" the former Vermont governor said Tuesday night aboard his campaign plane. "There were all these theories that they mentioned. Many of them turned out not to be true. The difference is that I acknowledged that I did not believe the theory I was putting out." Bush this week called the theory an "absurd insinuation." Dean's remarks, his critics say, are in keeping with his history of making statements that are mean-spirited or misleading. He has distorted his past support for raising the retirement age for Social Security and slowing Medicare's growth. He has falsely said he was the only Democratic presidential candidate talking about race before white audiences. And he made allegations -- some during his years as governor -- that turned out to be untrue. After saying at his last gubernatorial news conference that he was sealing his official records to avoid political embarrassment, Dean now says he was joking and is not sure what is in the files. When Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) unveiled his health care plan in April, Dean, through his campaign, belittled the lawmaker's record on the subject. Dean later walked away from the statement, saying it did not reflect his views. But this fall, in debates and TV ads, Dean has resurrected the criticism, accusing his congressional rivals, including Gephardt, of producing only rhetoric on health care in comparison to his record in Vermont. In recent days, Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) said Dean lacks the "credibility" to be president and accused him of misleading voters about past remarks on Iraq. One example cited by Kerry's campaign: Dean recently said, "I never said Saddam was a danger to the United States. Ever." But in September 2002, Dean told CBS's "Face the Nation": "There is no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat to the United States. The question is: Is he an immediate threat?" With polls suggesting Dean is pulling away from his rivals, they are stepping up their criticisms on several fronts, including foreign policy, government experience and credibility. Dean spokesman Jay Carson, asked about the challenges to his boss's veracity, said Wednesday: "That's all they do now: attack Howard Dean." Last week, after Dean denied providing a tax break as governor that benefited Enron Corp. -- which a published report showed he did -- Gephardt said: "Once again, Howard Dean refuses to admit the truth. You can't beat George W. Bush if you can't tell the truth about your own record." Tricia Enright, a Dean spokeswoman, called the quarrel a difference of "interpretation." Dean, she said, restructured the Vermont tax code for scores of companies and did not provide a specific break to Enron. To be sure, plenty of presidential candidates have bent facts and stretched figures to sharpen a point or blunt criticism. And interviews this year suggest that many voters give Dean high marks for speaking his mind. "To a great extent, the public does not give a damn" about the claims against Dean, said former representative Tony Coelho (D-Calif.), chairman of Al Gore's 2000 campaign. Voters want straight-talking leaders, he said, and former governors such as Dean have "a tendency to say what they think without having everything checked out before they do things." On Tuesday, when several rivals criticized him for saying America is not safer after Hussein's capture, Dean did not back away. "You know me; if I think something's true, I say it," he told reporters. But critics note he sometimes says things that are not true. In January, Dean told an abortion rights audience about a young patient he believed had been impregnated by her father. He was explaining why he opposes parental notification requirements for girls and young women seeking an abortion. But Dean later told Jake Tapper of Salon.com that he learned several years ago that "her father was not the father of her child; it was more complicated than that." Carson said Wednesday that Dean's January anecdote "wasn't misleading at all. The story illustrates the downside of [mandatory] parental notification, and is an example from the life experience of the governor." Some of Dean's opponents in his gubernatorial campaigns say he was prone to misleading statements then. In a 1998 debate, Dean and GOP candidate Ruth Dwyer argued over new regulations for large farms in Vermont. Dwyer told of Bristol farmer Bob Hill, who struggled to build a barn for his 600 cows while complying with the state's strict permit requirements. The next day, Dean told the Associated Press he had "done a little research on that farmer. He's in violation of the natural resource conservation service laws." Dean later acknowledged he was wrong and apologized to Hill. Several Vermont legislators from both parties who served while Dean was governor said they rarely found cause to question his honesty and chalked up his controversial comments to misspeaking. "He could be trusted and knew better than to lie to us," said Cheryl Rivers, a former Democratic state senator who sometimes clashed with Dean. "Yes, he would shoot from the hip, but it was not deliberate or malicious." But lately, as he courts liberal Democrats nationwide, Dean has distorted portions of his record as governor, when he was generally considered a centrist. He has repeatedly denied siding with Republicans such as then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) in 1995 in calling for slowing Medicare's annual growth from 10 percent to 7 percent, even though he told a Vermont newspaper he "fully subscribed" to the idea. Vermont Abenaki Indian leaders said they were outraged last month to see Dean onstage at a Native American conference in Albuquerque. For more than a decade, they said, his administration vigorously opposed their quest for state and federal recognition, contending the Indians might make land claims and bring casinos to Vermont. Dean drew raucous applause from his New Mexico audience when he endorsed the benefits of tribal gambling establishments. "Needless to say, to hear him say onstage in Albuquerque that he was in favor of gaming for federally recognized tribes came as a big shock to a lot of people in Vermont," said Jeff Benay, a Dean appointee who heads the Vermont Governor's Advisory Council on Indian Affairs and who has advised Dean's campaign. Carson, responding Wednesday to the Abenaki issue, said: "It would be inappropriate for the state to recognize them before the federal government does." The dust-up over the Saudi question began Dec. 1, on WAMU-FM's nationally syndicated "Diane Rehm Show," when Dean was asked why Bush was suppressing information from a commission looking into the Sept. 11 attacks. "The most interesting theory that I've heard so far -- which is nothing more than a theory, it can't be proved -- is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis," Dean replied. "Now who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kinds of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not, and they get repeated as fact." When asked a few days later on Fox News why he said it, Dean said, "because there are people who believe it. . . . I don't believe it . . . but it would be nice to know." A campaign aide said Dean heard the rumor from various people on the campaign trail. ********************************************* John On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD |
OT Howard Dean and America
"NOYB" wrote in message
om... I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The only good things to come out of Vermont are maple syrup, and Ben & Jerry's ice cream (the product...not the men). Oh yes. Didn't one or both of them have beards? We can't have THAT sort wandering around unrestrained. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"NOYB" wrote in message . com...
"basskisser" wrote in message om... which makes him a suspicious character indeed. What makes Dean a suspicious character is the fact that he sealed all of his records from when he was governor. You need to understand the context of that. He did so, and then stated, when Bush opens his files on Iraq , then Dean will open his records. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"NOYB" wrote in message om...
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:40:33 +0000, NOYB wrote: The link made a one-sentence reference to GWB's record while governor...but there was no further mention of it. That was the first time I even heard mention of him having his records sealed from the time he was governor. Any further specifics on the allegation? From the above link: " Dean's right, in a sense, about Bush. The former Texas governor had his gubernatorial records sent to his father's presidential library at Texas A&M, where they are kept from public scrutiny (requests have to go through the state's attorney general's office, who just happens to be a close Bush ally)." Upon further reading, GWB's records were moved back into state custody in July 2002, after "a Texas attorney general's opinion had established that they were subject to the state's open-records law." I agree with you, Dean should unseal his records. It is a stupid thing for a candidate to do and GWB should also have been held to task for it. Nevertheless, Dean made this statement: "I'll unseal mine if he'll (Bush) unseal all of his" If Bush's records are "unsealed" now, isn't about time Dean kept his promise to unseal his? But there NOT. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message om... I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The only good things to come out of Vermont are maple syrup, and Ben & Jerry's ice cream (the product...not the men). Oh yes. Didn't one or both of them have beards? We can't have THAT sort wandering around unrestrained. I seldom trust a man with facial hair below the mouth. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message om... I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The only good things to come out of Vermont are maple syrup, and Ben & Jerry's ice cream (the product...not the men). Oh yes. Didn't one or both of them have beards? We can't have THAT sort wandering around unrestrained. I seldom trust a man with facial hair below the mouth. OK. I figured your explanation was simple and worthless. I wish there was a way to bet on your responses. |
OT Howard Dean and America
Doug Kanter wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message om... I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The only good things to come out of Vermont are maple syrup, and Ben & Jerry's ice cream (the product...not the men). Oh yes. Didn't one or both of them have beards? We can't have THAT sort wandering around unrestrained. I seldom trust a man with facial hair below the mouth. OK. I figured your explanation was simple and worthless. I wish there was a way to bet on your responses. There's a way. Just bet that whatever the issue, he'll go for the right-wing extremist, mindless, goose-stepping response. -- Email sent to is never read. |
OT Howard Dean and America
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message om... I'm not interested in what Dean did while in college...'cause it's not relevant. However, the decisions that he made while an elected representative (governor of Vermont) *are* very relevant. The only good things to come out of Vermont are maple syrup, and Ben & Jerry's ice cream (the product...not the men). Oh yes. Didn't one or both of them have beards? We can't have THAT sort wandering around unrestrained. I seldom trust a man with facial hair below the mouth. I believe you for once! I honestly think that you are so uptight, such a goose-stepping Furor Bush follower, that you somehow can justify, in your closed mind, that people that have a beard are somehow below you. Putz. |
OT Howard Dean and America
On 23 Dec 2003 00:45:10 -0600, noah wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 07:39:22 -0500, JohnH wrote: This Off-topic post is offered as appeasement to the OT Gods, in hopes that they will reconsider. Regards, noah noah, by "OT God" are you referring your worship of Harry? And, BTW, be sure to read what the Washington Post is saying about Dean. Doesn't sound too good, especially coming from a more liberal newspaper. LOL! My "worship" of Harry is limited to the fact that he is a "reg" here, and has a respectable knowledge of boats. When he wants to... Don't pull me in to your "crab trap". I thought you were a friend of Harry's? Fairweather? Regards, noah Me? A friend of Harry's? Not hardly. I've met the man once. Arguing politics is one thing (I do so with my brother whom I love dearly). Arguing politics with someone who persists in name-calling and personal attacks is another. No, Harry and I aren't friends. John On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD |
OT Howard Dean and America
This group,and all soap operas, share one thing in common. Leave for six
monthes, return, and you haven't missed a beat. The off topic bs flows like a recently let steer! |
OT Howard Dean and America
That's what I like about this group, you can check in every 6 months, and
know you haven't missed anything. ; ) "PBitschura" wrote in message ... This group,and all soap operas, share one thing in common. Leave for six monthes, return, and you haven't missed a beat. The off topic bs flows like a recently let steer! |
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