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boat liability insurance needed Calif?
Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know
most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! |
Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know
most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! If the boat is "super cheap" for certain reasons, you may not be able to get hull insurance on it in any event. It is certainly responsible, even where not legally required, to carry liability coverage. It might be tricky to find an underwriter who will issue a liability policy on a boat that might be otherwise uninsurable. One good option is to see about "umbrella" coverage through your regular general insurance carrier. You can buy a few million dollars worth of umbrella coverage for relatively little, (probably more than enough to cover your butt if you were moored next to a megayacht and a galley fire broke out and spread). The umbrella coverage also provides liability for most of the other activities you pursue, or if somebody slips on a wet sidewalk in front of your doorstep, etc. If you go the umbrella policy route, do make sure your agent knows that you have a sailboat and make sure that boating isn't a risk that's excluded somewhere in the fine print |
Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know
most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! boats under 26 feet (actual) and 15 (?) hp usually are covered without additional fee under your homeowners/renters policy. if you home/rent and/or larger boat, many standard insurance companies (Allstate, for instance) will sell a liability only policy on boats. Most marine insurance agents don't want to even hear of libability only policies. Too little commission to be worth the effort. They tell such doesn't exist. |
JAXAshby wrote:
Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! boats under 26 feet (actual) and 15 (?) hp usually are covered without additional fee under your homeowners/renters policy. if you home/rent and/or larger boat, many standard insurance companies (Allstate, for instance) will sell a liability only policy on boats. Most marine insurance agents don't want to even hear of libability only policies. Too little commission to be worth the effort. They tell such doesn't exist. I would add however, that you should not assume your homeowners insurance automatically covers your boat. Years ago I was in a similar situation and found my homeowners policy *would* cover liability, but it required a rider on the policy and an additional small premium. Eisboch |
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... JAXAshby wrote: Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! boats under 26 feet (actual) and 15 (?) hp usually are covered without additional fee under your homeowners/renters policy. if you home/rent and/or larger boat, many standard insurance companies (Allstate, for instance) will sell a liability only policy on boats. Most marine insurance agents don't want to even hear of libability only policies. Too little commission to be worth the effort. They tell such doesn't exist. I would add however, that you should not assume your homeowners insurance automatically covers your boat. Years ago I was in a similar situation and found my homeowners policy *would* cover liability, but it required a rider on the policy and an additional small premium. Eisboch I would also highly recommend tow inusrance :-) |
In article , Gould 0738 wrote: Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! If the boat is "super cheap" for certain reasons, you may not be able to get hull insurance on it in any event. It is certainly responsible, even where not legally required, to carry liability coverage. It might be tricky to find an underwriter who will issue a liability policy on a boat that might be otherwise uninsurable. One good option is to see about "umbrella" coverage through your regular general insurance carrier. You can buy a few million dollars worth of umbrella coverage for relatively little, (probably more than enough to cover your butt if you were moored next to a megayacht and a galley fire broke out and spread). The umbrella coverage also provides liability for most of the other activities you pursue, or if somebody slips on a wet sidewalk in front of your doorstep, etc. If you go the umbrella policy route, do make sure your agent knows that you have a sailboat and make sure that boating isn't a risk that's excluded somewhere in the fine print Nearly all umbrella policies require anywhere from $300-500k of underlying liability insurance on any of a set of "specific" risks - and watercraft are almost always one of those specific risks. An umbrella is an excellent investment as they are quite cheap. However, the underlying insurance requirement is an issue you pretty much can't get around. Umbrellas are meant as "excess liability" insurance, not replacements. -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind |
In article , P.Fritz wrote: Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! I would also highly recommend tow inusrance :-) On a SAILboat? Why? What's wrong with the sail(s)? If the motor fails, use the wind! -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind |
"Karl Denninger" wrote in message news:Pi8dd.31592$bk1.3423@fed1read05... In article , P.Fritz wrote: Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! I would also highly recommend tow inusrance :-) On a SAILboat? Why? What's wrong with the sail(s)? If the motor fails, use the wind! Running aground,, rigging failure, for two.....For the cost of the insurance, vs. the one time cost of towing.....it is well worth it. -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind |
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Been there, done that. The "umbrella carrier" always requires you to
carry some minimum amount of liability on your house, cars, boats, etc. before they will issue the policy. Typically the minimums are in the range of 100 to 300K$. I have an umbrella liability policy that covers risks for which there is *no* underlying liability insurance available. I have had the same policy for over 20 years, (although the limits and premiums keep increasing), so things may be different in the current market. Suppose, for example, that I owned income producing real estate. At least in my state, many insurance companies will not write fire insurance on older rental dwellings. One that will write fire policies on 20-50 YO rentals does not offer inidividal liability insurance for houses or small multiplexes, but does offer an umbrella policy that covers not only property on which they write fire insurance but any other asset or activity as well. If I owned income producing real property in my state, had a policy like I just described, and had a 26-foot sailboat that was otherwise not insured my liability would be covered while sailing. Every situation is different, and the guy contemplating buying the "super cheap" sailboat should be sure he explores all the options. |
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How to the owners obtain protection?
Buy an umbrella policy from the same company that writes fire, or go naked. |
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Thanks for the responses... just so's you know, I'm basically "judgment
proof" since I have zero assets except for a cheap car, a few possibilities of having any assets any time soon. That's why the boat I'm buying is so inexpensive ;).. I'm also probably not going to be parking her in marinas but mostly keeping her at anchorage. Thanks again. "Karl Denninger" wrote in message news:dh8dd.31591$bk1.10487@fed1read05... In article , Gould 0738 wrote: Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! If the boat is "super cheap" for certain reasons, you may not be able to get hull insurance on it in any event. It is certainly responsible, even where not legally required, to carry liability coverage. It might be tricky to find an underwriter who will issue a liability policy on a boat that might be otherwise uninsurable. One good option is to see about "umbrella" coverage through your regular general insurance carrier. You can buy a few million dollars worth of umbrella coverage for relatively little, (probably more than enough to cover your butt if you were moored next to a megayacht and a galley fire broke out and spread). The umbrella coverage also provides liability for most of the other activities you pursue, or if somebody slips on a wet sidewalk in front of your doorstep, etc. If you go the umbrella policy route, do make sure your agent knows that you have a sailboat and make sure that boating isn't a risk that's excluded somewhere in the fine print Nearly all umbrella policies require anywhere from $300-500k of underlying liability insurance on any of a set of "specific" risks - and watercraft are almost always one of those specific risks. An umbrella is an excellent investment as they are quite cheap. However, the underlying insurance requirement is an issue you pretty much can't get around. Umbrellas are meant as "excess liability" insurance, not replacements. -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind |
Interesting.
I actually ran into something like this with a rental unit that my daughter bought (read me). It was built in 1920 and the insurance company that I used for our other two houses was reluctant to insure it for fire or anything else for that matter. I spent some money to rehab the house and all was well after that. Does that work the same way in your state? Later, Tom ----------- "Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt..." Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653 Once a year the insurance company gives an adjustor a list of addresses insured by individual policy holders. The adjustor does a "drive-by" and takes a few polaroid shots or each property. He of course feels compelled to come up with something, somewhere, to justify his gig. Once a year the insurance company then sends out notices declaring that unless the "peeling paint on the south wall is repaired", the "leaky downspout near the back bedroom is replaced" or "the tenant removes the camping trailer parked in the side yard" coverage will terminate in 90 days. I've never been certain how paint peeling on the sunny side of the house creates an additional fire hazard, but the ins.co. has policy holders by the short hairs as there is very little competition. One winds up doing the repairs to keep the coverage, but the repairs would need to be done in any event. If I had any income property, the relationship with the insurance company would go back to the mid-70's. There might even be rumors that I enjoyed some "grandfathered" considerations not available to newcomers. |
I would add however, that you should not assume your homeowners insurance
automatically covers your boat. Years ago I was in a similar situation and found my homeowners policy *would* cover liability, but it required a rider on the policy and an additional small premium. I second this advice, as our homeowner's insurance policy covers our small (125 hp, 19 ft) powerboat with a liability rider which costs $100 per year. |
Thanks for the responses... just so's you know, I'm basically "judgment
proof" since I have zero assets except for a cheap car, a few possibilities SNIP Judgement proof? I seriously doubt that ANYONE is "judgement proof"... You may be right that you have very little that anyone could take, but a judgement against you would ensure that anything you earn or own in the future would be subject to claim. Get the insurance. |
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"Falky foo" wrote in message om...
Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! Either way I strongly recommend liabilty as even a cheap boat can cause great damage to othes. Matt |
"Falky foo" wrote in message om...
Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! As others have mentioned, you may have trouble getting a liability only policy on a boat. It shouldn't be that way, but it is (just business). I would inquire about a rider on a my homeowners policy. OR look at a minimal package that covers a low agreed hull value, or fair market value. I have more than adequate liability and FMV coverage for the hull for my baby jetboat (a Sea-Doo) and it cost less than $150 per year (BOAT/US). Note that the jetboat is on a trailer in my garage most of the time. But even my old 36' Chris Craft, kept in a slip, gets full coverage (agreed value @ $30,000) for $350. A homeowners insurance rider on a small inexpensive boat will probably be a two-figure annual expense. (note that my homeowners insurance, State Farm, would not do a rider for either boat, but they do offer boat insurance - though they are pricey). I have never been required to show proof of insurance at any transient dock/mooring for either boat. My home marina requires me to have liability insurance with a certificate making the marina 'named insured'. This is not an unusual requirement. |
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it makes
no more sense to go to your homeowner/renter insurance agent expecting expert advice on boat insurance.. yet, they the liability insurance they sell for liabilities associated with boating troubles are in fact liability policies regulated by the state's insurance regulator. marine insurance brokers don't sell liability only policies. |
In article , Gould 0738 wrote: Been there, done that. The "umbrella carrier" always requires you to carry some minimum amount of liability on your house, cars, boats, etc. before they will issue the policy. Typically the minimums are in the range of 100 to 300K$. I have an umbrella liability policy that covers risks for which there is *no* underlying liability insurance available. I have had the same policy for over 20 years, (although the limits and premiums keep increasing), so things may be different in the current market. Suppose, for example, that I owned income producing real estate. At least in my state, many insurance companies will not write fire insurance on older rental dwellings. One that will write fire policies on 20-50 YO rentals does not offer inidividal liability insurance for houses or small multiplexes, but does offer an umbrella policy that covers not only property on which they write fire insurance but any other asset or activity as well. If I owned income producing real property in my state, had a policy like I just described, and had a 26-foot sailboat that was otherwise not insured my liability would be covered while sailing. Every situation is different, and the guy contemplating buying the "super cheap" sailboat should be sure he explores all the options. Careful with that Chuck. "No underlying insurance AVAILABLE" doesn't mean "not available at a price you want to pay." In most cases liability coverage IS available on major risks (like watercraft) You may have to pay for OTHER coverages to get what you want, but that doesn't make the underlying "unavailable" - just "undesireable." Look very, very carefully at these issues and enlist the help of a good attorney skilled in estate-protection matters. The cost of being wrong on one of these things if something really bad happens is usually damn near everything you have (with some exceptions in places like Florida where homestead residences are judgement-proof.) -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind |
expert advice on boat insurance..
yet, they sell the liability insurance for liabilities associated with boating troubles ??? You no good english... ??? no, gene, *your* opinion is just not worth proofreading for. |
are in fact liability policies regulated by the state's
insurance regulator. If not automotive, not in my state. bull****. all fifty states. every last one. |
marine insurance brokers don't sell liability only
policies. For the simple reason that most people actually intend to *use* the boat, no, for the simple reason they don't wish to deal with ****ant commisions on tiny policies. |
*use* the
boat, whereupon: Property Damage Wind Damage Towing and Assistance * Medical * Uninsured Boater * L&HCA Personal Property * and Trailer begin to seem like really good ideas, especially when those marked with an asterisk are not a bump-up in premium after Liability and Property Damage are bought. none germaine to the issue of a cheap ass boat. jgunnie, keep in mind that the total premiums on a pool of risk is equal to the total risk, plus a profit. If you have a $2,000 boat you are a fool to pay $800 a year to insure it against a total loss, less $500 deductible. what you want to insure (even paying a premium to the insurer for his profit) against is the potential that a $2,000 boat hits a $500,000 boat and causes it to sink. That is worth $75/year to most people. See: http://www.boats.com/content/default...ontentid=12761 -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
If you have a $1,000 boat you
are a fool to pay $8000 a year to insure it against a total loss, less $2500 deductible. yup. |
Again, straw man figures. If you only have liability and the only
line item on your declarations page is $2,000, that is all they are going to pay..... and I wouldn't pay even $75 for that. junnie, you obviously have no clucking fue what the word liability means. go away. And I think your basic premise is probably flawed. First, I can't imagine a 26 foot sailboat being worth only $2000, nor do I believe that most boat owners want to incur unreasonable risk.... which is a function, not only of the value of the insured property, but of the owner's net worth. |
How do you insure your sunfish? Liability only?
yes. and it costs me $75/yr for half mil liability protection. |
half mil, ***************** liability *************.
obviously, junnie, you are still too stucking fupid to know what liability insurance is, so just be quiet. From: "Gene Kearns" Date: 10/21/2004 9:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time Message-id: On 21 Oct 2004 02:31:01 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: junnie, I have been well aware of what the term "liability" has meant for decades. Liability insurance is in fact liability insurance. Duh. Jax, if what you own is covered by a $75.00 annual premium (and I'm sure it is), just be happy. Now, go sit on your sunfish. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
yuk. what a fumb duck junnie is totally, as he obviously shows one and all his
utter lack of understanding of even the simpel term "liability" is thusly: From: "Gene Kearns" Date: 10/22/2004 9:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time Message-id: On 22 Oct 2004 02:11:01 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: half mil, ***************** liability *************. obviously, junnie, you are still too stucking fupid to know what liability insurance is, so just be quiet. One last post of warning, not to you, since you seem to feel covered, but to anybody else following this. There are various types of liability coverage. If you want a general umbrella policy, you can get that pretty cheap... and you get what you pay for. There are liability policies that closely address the needs of boaters... and they'll cost more. I'm not an insurance guru, and Jax has made it abundantly clear that he isn't either. Your best advise will come from insurance professionals. Talk to one familiar with marine interests and talk to your regular agent. Make an informed choice, but make *sure* you are adequately covered against perils to which you feel exposed. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
"Curtis CCR" wrote in message om... "Falky foo" wrote in message om... Hi, I'm planning on buying a very inexpensive ~26 foot sail boat. I know most marinas require some sort of insurance, right? How about transient anchorages, moorings, etc run by the county/state? The boat is so inexpensive that I wouldn't really care if it were a complete loss, so the only insurance I'd get would be that which is required. Is that liability insurance? Is there some sort of standard liability insurance or something else super cheap? Thanks! As others have mentioned, you may have trouble getting a liability only policy on a boat. It shouldn't be that way, but it is (just business). I would inquire about a rider on a my homeowners policy. OR look at a minimal package that covers a low agreed hull value, or fair market value. I have more than adequate liability and FMV coverage for the hull for my baby jetboat (a Sea-Doo) and it cost less than $150 per year (BOAT/US). Note that the jetboat is on a trailer in my garage most of the time. But even my old 36' Chris Craft, kept in a slip, gets full coverage (agreed value @ $30,000) for $350. A homeowners insurance rider on a small inexpensive boat will probably be a two-figure annual expense. (note that my homeowners insurance, State Farm, would not do a rider for either boat, but they do offer boat insurance - though they are pricey). I have never been required to show proof of insurance at any transient dock/mooring for either boat. My home marina requires me to have liability insurance with a certificate making the marina 'named insured'. This is not an unusual requirement. Moss Landing requires proof of insurance for overnight ties. Since he has no assets, he needs no insurance. Way of the world. If he is in school and has a future big earning capability he needs insurance. Is a major complaint of mine. If I run into an uninsured motorist and cripple him, he gets a couple of million from me and my insurance company. But if he does the same to me, I get what my uninsured motorist policy provides. My cure for the liability crises is that you can sue for the amount of liability insurance you carry. You can get direct medical costs covered by the insured person, but no pain and suffering, no lost wages. |
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