On 15 Oct 2004 23:27:09 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I believe that "lighter per amp hour" is accurate.

==========================================

Possibly a dangerous assumption since they are still lead-acid cells.

For any given battery chemistry such as lead-acid / nickel-cadmium /
NiMH / etc., capacity tracks very closely with weight. The way I read
your article, their "break through" was compressing more lead into the
same area (thinner plate separation). The batteries sound to me like
a variation on AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) which has been around for
awhile. As others have stated, I'd be interested in a side by side
tabulation of specifications against a conventional lead-acid 8D.
Even though there are big quality differences between 8Ds as expressed
in longevity, they all tend to have the same specifications.

I believe that "lighter per amp hour" is accurate.

==========================================

Possibly a dangerous assumption since they are still lead-acid cells.


Some comparisons for you:

The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60 amps
per pound.

A 225-amp West Marine gel cell battery weighs 161 pounds, delivering only 1.39
amps per pound.

The 245-amp West Marine AGM battery weighs 158 pounds, rivaling but not
equaling the Meridian amp/pound output at 1.55 amps per pound.

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs 132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

Without bothering to run a comparsion against every single battery on the
market,
it is possible to establish that these batteries are indeed "lighter per amp
hour"
(or, more amp hours per pound) than many batteries, including every variety of
8D Marine battery offered by the nation's largest marine retailer.

On 17 Oct 2004 05:23:20 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60 amps
per pound.

A 225-amp West Marine gel cell battery weighs 161 pounds, delivering only 1.39
amps per pound.

The 245-amp West Marine AGM battery weighs 158 pounds, rivaling but not
equaling the Meridian amp/pound output at 1.55 amps per pound.

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs 132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

================================================== ==

Based on your numbers, it does look like the AGMs are delivering about
25% more power per pound. Significantly better, but not exactly a
break through. More telling in my mind is that the Meridian seems to
be about the same as other AGMs which is the appropriate criteria for
judging their claims. Getting a lot more capacity in the same space
as an 8D is certainly an attractive proposition regardless of power to
weight ratios. If they'd like to send me a couple, I'd be happy to
conduct some real world life cycle testing for them. :-)

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:34:04 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 05:23:20 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60 amps
per pound.

A 225-amp West Marine gel cell battery weighs 161 pounds, delivering only 1.39
amps per pound.

The 245-amp West Marine AGM battery weighs 158 pounds, rivaling but not
equaling the Meridian amp/pound output at 1.55 amps per pound.

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs 132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

================================================= ===

Based on your numbers, it does look like the AGMs are delivering about
25% more power per pound. Significantly better, but not exactly a
break through. More telling in my mind is that the Meridian seems to
be about the same as other AGMs which is the appropriate criteria for
judging their claims. Getting a lot more capacity in the same space
as an 8D is certainly an attractive proposition regardless of power to
weight ratios. If they'd like to send me a couple, I'd be happy to
conduct some real world life cycle testing for them. :-)

Me too!!!

I just switched to AGMs this morning - I'm convinced that the safety
factors alone are well worth the dollars spent.

I liked Chuck's idea about the replaceable cells, but in my boats,
that's problematic.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I believe that "lighter per amp hour" is accurate.

==========================================

Possibly a dangerous assumption since they are still lead-acid cells.


Some comparisons for you:

Did you do this research, or did you take what they gave you?


The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60
amps
per pound.

okay....

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs
132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

That would be the Sea Volt "dual purpose" battery. If you are going to
comparison based on amp-hours I would expect that you would compare against
deep cycle batteries.

Without bothering to run a comparsion against every single battery on the
market,
it is possible to establish that these batteries are indeed "lighter per
amp
hour"
(or, more amp hours per pound) than many batteries, including every
variety of
8D Marine battery offered by the nation's largest marine retailer.


Hey, that is great information. The Meridian has more amp-hours per pound
than some batteries.

Why not compare it against batteries that people respect as being performers
in the deep cycle arena?

Trojan Battery: 8D Deep Cycle battery; 216 amp-hours, 132 lbs. 1.64
amp-hours per pound. That exceeds the Meridian!

How about comparing it against the gold standard in deep cycle, the good old
"golf cart" battery. Trojan battery, T-105. They are six volts so you need
two. 2x 62lbs = 124 pounds. 225 amp-hours 1.81 amp-hours / pound.
Doesn't that just blow away a Meridian?

All right, maybe you have a thing about comparing against batteries you can
find in the West Marine catalog. SeaVolt, L16 case size, 113 lbs (they are
six volt so you need two, or 226 lbs). 370 amp-hours, 1.64 amp-hours per
pound.

I sure don't see how you can claim that the Meridian batteries are lighter
per amp-hour.

You might also note that two of the Meridian 210 batteries would NOT fit in
the 8D battery box that you could buy at "the nations largest marine
retailer". The inside dimensions of the 8D battery box that West Marine
sells is 21" long (the Meridian is 22 inches long) and the height is only
10.5 inches tall (the Meridian is 12.6 inches tall).

The Meridian battery does appear to have some interesting features. Their
amp-hour per cubic inch appears to be quite good. They aren't twice what a
flooded 8D would be (as claimed in your article) but they are significantly
better.

Rod

You might also note that two of the Meridian 210 batteries would NOT fit in
the 8D battery box that you could buy at "the nations largest marine
retailer". The inside dimensions of the 8D battery box that West Marine
sells is 21" long (the Meridian is 22 inches long) and the height is only
10.5 inches tall (the Meridian is 12.6 inches tall).

There are two Meridian batteries on display, in a typical 8D box. The vendor
who retails these batteries in this area is not WM, and doesn't sell WM battery
boxes.

Remember that "8D" is a case size.

If your email address works, watch for a couple of photos. The batteries in the
box in the photo are combined to create 24-volts.



Trojan Battery: 8D Deep Cycle battery; 216 amp-hours, 132 lbs. 1.64
amp-hours per pound. That exceeds the Meridian!

By 6 amp-hours, and 1 pound, and takes up twice the space. Under the "twice the
power or half the space" theme of the article, 2 Meridians in the same
footprint would provide 420 amp-hours. That certainly exceeds 216.

How about comparing it against the gold standard in deep cycle, the good old
"golf cart" battery. Trojan battery, T-105. They are six volts so you need
two. 2x 62lbs = 124 pounds. 225 amp-hours 1.81 amp-hours / pound.
Doesn't that just blow away a Meridian?

If you want to digress from 12-volt 8D's to
other types and sizes of batteries, obviously the comparisons will change as
well.

I sure don't see how you can claim that the Meridian batteries are lighter
per amp-hour.

They are lighter per amp hour than some batteries. Not all batteries. They are
lighter per amp hour than every 8D battery shown in the WM catalog, as an
example. The major benefit of the capacity and case size of the Meridians is
the "half the space, or twice the power" option.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

There are two Meridian batteries on display, in a typical 8D box. The
vendor
who retails these batteries in this area is not WM, and doesn't sell WM
battery
boxes.

Well, I was only using the West Marine box because you had already
established that the extent of your research was limited to the West Marine
catalog

Remember that "8D" is a case size.

Yes, and the Meridians are outside of that case size. They are taller and
longer than an 8D.


If your email address works, watch for a couple of photos. The batteries
in the
box in the photo are combined to create 24-volts.


I am sure that you could find a box that two Meridians would fit in. I
think you are doing a mis-service to the boating public to say that two
Meridians will fit in an 8D box when they are clearly longer and taller than
an 8D, and too long and too tall to fit in the 8D battery box that many
people might have previously bought. If I had been sold on this concept
that they would fit I would be really ****ed if I had to go buy a new
battery box (those 8D boxes are not cheap).


If you want to digress from 12-volt 8D's to
other types and sizes of batteries, obviously the comparisons will change
as
well.

Your article didn't say that all comparisons were strictly against 8Ds, and
the start of this branch of the thread was on your statement to the effect
that the Meridian batteries were lighter per amp-hour than "conventional
automotive batteries". I wouldn't consider an 8D to be a conventional
automotive battery.

They are lighter per amp hour than some batteries.

Not significantly so that it is "newsworthy". They certainly are not ligher
per amp-hour than any battery I would compare it against if I was shopping
for a deep cycle battery.

The major benefit of the capacity and case size of the Meridians is
the "half the space, or twice the power" option.

The half/twice number is a bit of a generous "rounding" of the true number
(the North Star Battery website claims 40%), but none the less their
amp-hour per cubic inch is impressive. Perhaps you would do everyone a
favor if you would focus on that instead.

Rod