OT - OT-Cops for Kerry? - Not
 

"While Kerry was flying around the country campaigning and leaving the
actual work of the nation to his colleagues in the Senate, the
President was out there working on our behalf,"

This is the funniest new wrinkle in campaigning I've seen in a long time. The
charge is very popular in both national and local raes this year. "My opponent
actually has the audacity to *campaign for office*! He or she should get of the
campaign trail, leave it solely at my disposal, and stick to casting votes in
the legislature."

Awfully good thing that President Bush hasn't been flying around the country
campaigning as well. Who would have been there to work for the Fraternal Order
of Republican Cops?

Gould 0738 wrote:
"While Kerry was flying around the country campaigning and leaving the
actual work of the nation to his colleagues in the Senate, the
President was out there working on our behalf,"


This is the funniest new wrinkle in campaigning I've seen in a long time. The
charge is very popular in both national and local raes this year. "My opponent
actually has the audacity to *campaign for office*! He or she should get of the
campaign trail, leave it solely at my disposal, and stick to casting votes in
the legislature."

Awfully good thing that President Bush hasn't been flying around the country
campaigning as well. Who would have been there to work for the Fraternal Order
of Republican Cops?



Fortunately, all this election politicking is soon to end.

Looks like it is all over for John Kerry. His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended) and the new questions about how he
secured an "Honorable Discharge" from the Navy will do him in.

It is really too bad a more decent and qualified candidate had not been
nominated by the Democrats. Bush was certainly vulnerable, but the
Democratic party blew their chance.

Eisboch

Looks like it is all over for John Kerry. His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Not so. The vast majority of folks who believe that having a lesbian daughter
is a "disgrace", something to be hidden or an indication of a personal
shortcoming were certainly not going to vote for Kerry in the first place.

Kerry's response to the question whether
homosexuality was a choice included the remarks, "I'm sure, for example, the VP
Cheney and his wife support their daughter and lover her for who she is." The
*only* way to turn that into a negative is to perceive that "accusing" somebody
of having a gay or lesbian child is an insult----
and folks who feel that way are going to vote conservative most of the time.

Cheney himself discussed his daughter's sexuality in the VP debate. Does he now
feel "outed" by Kerry in the final Presidential debate, or is it that the polls
are running neck and neck?

and the new questions about how he
secured an "Honorable Discharge" from the Navy will do him in.

That's a streeeeeeeetch. GWB has demonstrated that a politician can easily
survive all sorts of disclosures and speculations about service and discharge.

Weren't the Swift Boaters supposed to "do him in"? Wasn't the original RW lie
after Kerry wrapped up the nomination in the primaries ("Kerry got his
secretary pregnant and he has sent her to Africa until the campaign is over")
supposed to do the same?

Why does the Kerry candidacy continue to threaten the Bush regime? It's because
as flawed as Kerry is, just about half the people in this country are fed up to
the eyebrows with the status quo in Washington DC. Many of them are like me-
they only support Kerry because he represents our best hope for change now,
rather than in 2008.

It is really too bad a more decent and qualified candidate had not been
nominated by the Democrats. Bush was certainly vulnerable, but the
Democratic party blew their chance.

Maybe yes, maybe no. All the people who say, "I would have voted for one of the
Democrats if they had run a candidate that was more like most of the
Republicans," are really expressing a preference for the Republican style. If
the race were between
Bush and "Bush-Lite", those same people would likely vote for the real right
wing McCoy, not the "wannabe".

Gould 0738 wrote:


Not so. The vast majority of folks who believe that having a lesbian daughter
is a "disgrace", something to be hidden or an indication of a personal
shortcoming were certainly not going to vote for Kerry in the first place.

Kerry's problem has nothing to do with old fashioned beliefs of
"disgrace", etc. It has everything to do with the fact that most
thinking people can see through the BS and recognize why he said it.
Kerry is unfortunately such an elitist that he thinks nobody is as smart
as he is. His condescending attitude is why he is going to lose.



Cheney himself discussed his daughter's sexuality in the VP debate. Does he now
feel "outed" by Kerry in the final Presidential debate, or is it that the polls
are running neck and neck?

He discussed it because John Edwards specifically brought up the subject
of his daughter. In contemporary America, this subject is still
regarded as a private matter. If Cheney and/or his daughter want to
discuss it, that is their right. Edwards and Kerry discussed it only to
try to gain a political advantage, period, no matter how "nicely" they
did it and the majority of the voters recognize it, IMHO.


and the new questions about how he
secured an "Honorable Discharge" from the Navy will do him in.


That's a streeeeeeeetch. GWB has demonstrated that a politician can easily
survive all sorts of disclosures and speculations about service and discharge.


This controversy is relatively new, Chuck. It may have some legs to it.
Having been in the service for 9 years in the same time period of
Kerry, I am familiar with the mechanisms of military discharges. His
was not routine.

Eisboch

In article ,
says...
Gould 0738 wrote:


Not so. The vast majority of folks who believe that having a lesbian daughter
is a "disgrace", something to be hidden or an indication of a personal
shortcoming were certainly not going to vote for Kerry in the first place.

Kerry's problem has nothing to do with old fashioned beliefs of
"disgrace", etc. It has everything to do with the fact that most
thinking people can see through the BS and recognize why he said it.
Kerry is unfortunately such an elitist that he thinks nobody is as smart
as he is. His condescending attitude is why he is going to lose.

And folks like you are more comfortable with a down home fool than
someone who knows better.

I predict Bush is going to lose. There is a voter registration uprising
in this country and they're not registering Republican.

jps

jps wrote:


And folks like you are more comfortable with a down home fool than
someone who knows better.

Where did I say I was more comfortable with a down home fool? All I
said was that it was all over for Kerry.


Eisboch

I predict Bush is going to lose. There is a voter registration uprising
in this country and they're not registering Republican.

jps


There are many stories about evangelical Christian churches conducting voter
registration drives among the membership.
The churches can't instruct the members about the actual choice of candidate,
(without risking loss of tax exempt status) but there's enough nodding,
winking, other little messages sent to get the job done.
Most of these people are very conservative, and would be Bush supporters. To
the dismay of many of the right wing churches, a high percentage of the members
are *already* registered to vote, so the actual
number of new right wing voters is going to be fairly small.

Very interesting theory going around is that this election will be "decided" by
the
20-somethings. Vast numbers of these young people use cell phones, exclusively,
and pollsters are prohibited from calling cell phone prefixes because the
recipient of the call has to pay for the "minutes" used. Since all the old
farts in the country
seem to be split about 50-50, let's see who the kids put into office.

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Gould 0738 wrote:


Not so. The vast majority of folks who believe that having a lesbian
daughter
is a "disgrace", something to be hidden or an indication of a personal
shortcoming were certainly not going to vote for Kerry in the first
place.

Kerry's problem has nothing to do with old fashioned beliefs of
"disgrace", etc. It has everything to do with the fact that most
thinking people can see through the BS and recognize why he said it.
Kerry is unfortunately such an elitist that he thinks nobody is as smart
as he is. His condescending attitude is why he is going to lose.

And folks like you are more comfortable with a down home fool than
someone who knows better.

I predict Bush is going to lose. There is a voter registration uprising
in this country and they're not registering Republican.

jps

I've got plans for that eventuality. No it doesn't involve explosives.

Get out of all investments, move money offshore and try to keep up with
inflation. Taxes and inflation are going to increase exponentially.

To be fair, it's only going to be 30% Kerry with the cost of energy being
the majority but everyone in this news group blames the president unless he
is a democrat.

And how about the "Honorable Dischrage" supposedly obtained by our
chickenhawk leader Bush? Especially after he was AWOL for almost a year,
although most of us who really wore a uniform during those years would
call him a lowly DESERTER, not just AWOL.

Capt. Jeff

"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...
And how about the "Honorable Dischrage" supposedly obtained by our
chickenhawk leader Bush? Especially after he was AWOL for almost a year,
although most of us who really wore a uniform during those years would
call him a lowly DESERTER, not just AWOL.

Capt. Jeff

Who the hell cares about the military duties of Kerry or Bush some 35 years
ago? Why is that important to you and Kerry?

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:39:14 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:

His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Cheney's daughter is working in the BushCo campaign. She is open for
discussion. This is a non-issue, so shut the **** up.

--
Q

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:36 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


Cheney himself discussed his daughter's sexuality in the VP debate.
Does he now feel "outed" by Kerry in the final Presidential debate, or
is it that the polls are running neck and neck?

He discussed it because John Edwards specifically brought up the subject
of his daughter. In contemporary America, this subject is still
regarded as a private matter. If Cheney and/or his daughter want to
discuss it, that is their right. Edwards and Kerry discussed it only to
try to gain a political advantage, period, no matter how "nicely" they
did it and the majority of the voters recognize it, IMHO.

In point of fact, Ifill brought Cheney's daughter into the debate.

Ifill: "The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting:
"Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you
were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used *your family's
experience* as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional
ban on same-sex unions?"

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...pt2/index.html

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
thunder wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:36 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


Cheney himself discussed his daughter's sexuality in the VP debate.
Does he now feel "outed" by Kerry in the final Presidential debate, or
is it that the polls are running neck and neck?

He discussed it because John Edwards specifically brought up the subject
of his daughter. In contemporary America, this subject is still
regarded as a private matter. If Cheney and/or his daughter want to
discuss it, that is their right. Edwards and Kerry discussed it only to
try to gain a political advantage, period, no matter how "nicely" they
did it and the majority of the voters recognize it, IMHO.

In point of fact, Ifill brought Cheney's daughter into the debate.

Ifill: "The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting:
"Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when
you
were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used *your family's
experience* as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional
ban on same-sex unions?"

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...pt2/index.html



The truth is, the Cheneys do not support equal rights for their own
daughter.

--


How so?

"starwars" wrote in message
elinux.net...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Q wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:39:14 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:

His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Cheney's daughter is working in the BushCo campaign. She is open for
discussion. This is a non-issue, so shut the **** up.

--
Q

You don't have any class or ethics.

He emulates Kerry.

Harry Krause wrote:
starwars wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Q wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:39:14 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:


His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Cheney's daughter is working in the BushCo campaign. She is open for
discussion. This is a non-issue, so shut the **** up.

--
Q

You don't have any class or ethics.



If Mary Cheney were still in the closet, it would have been
inappropriate. Ms. Cheney, however, is openly gay. In fact, she flaunts
her sexual preference. During the GOP convention, she sat in the VP's
box with her gay partner. Her private sector job was as a liaison to the
gay community as an employee of Coors Brewing.

MAry's parents obviously are upset with their daughter's sexual
preference, and they support Bush's plan to take a right away from gays.

The righties are pandering to their small-minded pseudo-Christian base.
You obviously are a part the small-minded.



Now Harry, I may be small-minded to some, but pseudo-Christian I am not.

Eisboch

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
starwars wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Q wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:39:14 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:


His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Cheney's daughter is working in the BushCo campaign. She is open for
discussion. This is a non-issue, so shut the **** up.

--
Q

You don't have any class or ethics.



If Mary Cheney were still in the closet, it would have been
inappropriate. Ms. Cheney, however, is openly gay. In fact, she flaunts
her sexual preference. During the GOP convention, she sat in the VP's
box with her gay partner. Her private sector job was as a liaison to the
gay community as an employee of Coors Brewing.

MAry's parents obviously are upset with their daughter's sexual
preference, and they support Bush's plan to take a right away from gays.

The righties are pandering to their small-minded pseudo-Christian base.
You obviously are a part the small-minded.



Now Harry, I may be small-minded to some, but pseudo-Christian I am not.

Eisboch

I don't believe you to be small-minded or pseudo anything. You sort of
remind me of the old style responsible Republican moderates, the ones
that helped make this country a better place to live.



Funny to see you squirm with someone who you admire and respect yet
continuously proves you wrong.

I the reply to you were made by me, JohnH, Jon Smith and the same it would
be totally different.

Dance Krause....dance....LMAO!

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:18:11 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


Now Harry, I may be small-minded to some, but pseudo-Christian I am not.

I am the Walrus - coo coo ka choooooo...

Later,

Tom

JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

starwars wrote:


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Q wrote:


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:39:14 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:



His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Cheney's daughter is working in the BushCo campaign. She is open for
discussion. This is a non-issue, so shut the **** up.

--
Q

You don't have any class or ethics.



If Mary Cheney were still in the closet, it would have been
inappropriate. Ms. Cheney, however, is openly gay. In fact, she flaunts
her sexual preference. During the GOP convention, she sat in the VP's
box with her gay partner. Her private sector job was as a liaison to the
gay community as an employee of Coors Brewing.

MAry's parents obviously are upset with their daughter's sexual
preference, and they support Bush's plan to take a right away from gays.

The righties are pandering to their small-minded pseudo-Christian base.
You obviously are a part the small-minded.



Now Harry, I may be small-minded to some, but pseudo-Christian I am not.

Eisboch

I don't believe you to be small-minded or pseudo anything. You sort of
remind me of the old style responsible Republican moderates, the ones
that helped make this country a better place to live.




Funny to see you squirm with someone who you admire and respect yet
continuously proves you wrong.

I the reply to you were made by me, JohnH, Jon Smith and the same it would
be totally different.

Dance Krause....dance....LMAO!



My fault. I got the names and replys messed up.

Harry's ok. I don't agree with his politics much, nor does he with mine,
but it's always an agreeable disagreement. Same with Gould.

It's when the focus shifts from healthy debate to frustrated name
calling that the threads in the NG spiral out of control.

It's good to mulch other ideas or philosophys once in a while.
Sometimes you learn something and modify your own positions. Sometimes
your position simply becomes stronger in your mind.

Eisboch (going to watch the Sox/Yankees now)

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

starwars wrote:


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Q wrote:


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:39:14 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:



His remarks regarding
Cheney's daughter (however intended)

Cheney's daughter is working in the BushCo campaign. She is open for
discussion. This is a non-issue, so shut the **** up.

--
Q

You don't have any class or ethics.



If Mary Cheney were still in the closet, it would have been
inappropriate. Ms. Cheney, however, is openly gay. In fact, she flaunts
her sexual preference. During the GOP convention, she sat in the VP's
box with her gay partner. Her private sector job was as a liaison to
the
gay community as an employee of Coors Brewing.

MAry's parents obviously are upset with their daughter's sexual
preference, and they support Bush's plan to take a right away from
gays.

The righties are pandering to their small-minded pseudo-Christian base.
You obviously are a part the small-minded.



Now Harry, I may be small-minded to some, but pseudo-Christian I am not.

Eisboch

I don't believe you to be small-minded or pseudo anything. You sort of
remind me of the old style responsible Republican moderates, the ones
that helped make this country a better place to live.




Funny to see you squirm with someone who you admire and respect yet
continuously proves you wrong.

I the reply to you were made by me, JohnH, Jon Smith and the same it
would be totally different.

Dance Krause....dance....LMAO!

My fault. I got the names and replys messed up.

Harry's ok. I don't agree with his politics much, nor does he with mine,
but it's always an agreeable disagreement. Same with Gould.

It's when the focus shifts from healthy debate to frustrated name calling
that the threads in the NG spiral out of control.

It's good to mulch other ideas or philosophys once in a while. Sometimes
you learn something and modify your own positions. Sometimes your
position simply becomes stronger in your mind.

Eisboch (going to watch the Sox/Yankees now)


Despite our recent differences on the undecided vote I have always thought
you to be among the more restrained and intelligent posters to this NG. My
opinion has not changed despite our recent differences.

Regarding Harry Krause though, I do disagree with you. The man is a nut
case, a stalker and a frustrated wanna-be. I think most of the NG shares my
feelings, especially since he recently wished death and catastrophe to the
republican member family's. ;-)

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:29:11 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:36 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


Cheney himself discussed his daughter's sexuality in the VP debate.
Does he now feel "outed" by Kerry in the final Presidential debate, or
is it that the polls are running neck and neck?

He discussed it because John Edwards specifically brought up the
subject of his daughter. In contemporary America, this subject is
still regarded as a private matter. If Cheney and/or his daughter want
to discuss it, that is their right. Edwards and Kerry discussed it only
to try to gain a political advantage, period, no matter how "nicely"
they did it and the majority of the voters recognize it, IMHO.

In point of fact, Ifill brought Cheney's daughter into the debate.

Ifill: "The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting:
"Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when
you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used *your
family's experience* as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional
ban on same-sex unions?"

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...pt2/index.html



The truth is, the Cheneys do not support equal rights for their own
daughter.

I'm not so sure. Having a gay child can be an eye opening experience. I
have no reason to doubt Cheney loves his daughter and his "freedom means
freedom for everyone" was a heart-felt statement. That being said, he is
also not above making political hay. He claims indignation at Kerry's
comments, but I haven't heard his response to Alan Keyes calling his
daughter a "sinner" and "a selfish hedonist".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897569/

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:10:49 +0200 (CEST), starwars
wrote:

You don't have any class or ethics.


I have never shied away from an open discussion of ideas with anyone.
If a person were to offer up his/her own ideas, fine -- I'll be glad
to enter a debate. Posting articles to get discussion going are fine
also.

However, when all a person has to offer is a sound bite parroted from
the Rush Limpballs and Bill O'lielies of the new America, forget it.
You'll get a ****in' sound bite right back at ya'.

--
Q