"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house
tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office.

Tje job is first class and the price...$1000 LESS than two non-union
contractors bid for the job.


You need to hire a union typist, Harry.
ROFL!!!!!!!!

Is this an audience, or an oil painting?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house
tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office.


*Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just
say so.

And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non
union company would have beat it.

What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? The way you
rave about the details of the work makes it obvious you have never put down
tile before. Hell, my sister tiled her own counter top and back splash
without a lick of problem. No need for union workers to do it for her.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house
tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office.


*Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not
just
say so.

And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a
non
union company would have beat it.

What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union?

Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship)
arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring
someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their
own home, decided to open a business.

If you measure quality on a one to ten scale, you might be happy with a tile
job that was a seven if you'd never seen a ten. Sounds like Harry got a ten.
I got a ten when a union guy sheetrocked the ceiling of my dining room,
working on top of plaster, rather than removing it, which would've risked
the release of lead dust. They guy spent the first four hours with some sort
of wacky looking arrangement of little bubble levels, wires and huge
straightedges, applying various thicknesses of aluminum shims that he made
at home. When it was done, it looked like the room had been flipped upside
down and had the ceiling poured on, allowing gravity to level it like the
surface of a quiet pond.

Sure - this kind of work isn't necessarily exclusive to union workers. But,
when I questioned the shimming & leveling tricks, he said he'd learned it
during 3 years of training with some union guys. If YOU wanted to do that
kind of work, where would you go to learn it? Would you waste time buying
magazines and browsing the web, hoping to find the information, or take the
most direct route to the source of training, which is probably other
workers?

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:57:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Sure - this kind of work isn't necessarily exclusive to union workers. But,
when I questioned the shimming & leveling tricks, he said he'd learned it
during 3 years of training with some union guys. If YOU wanted to do that
kind of work, where would you go to learn it? Would you waste time buying
magazines and browsing the web, hoping to find the information, or take the
most direct route to the source of training, which is probably other
workers?

I am probably going to take a lot of flack for this, but I'm not
totally convinced that hiring a Union worker is the best way to go.
My results have been 50/50 with Union trades - I've already told the
story of the two Union masons and their apprentices, so I won't tell
it again.

However, because of somebody near and dear to me, is a union
supporter, worker and member and one of my friends is a IBEW type (as
in bigshot) I often try to hire Union when I need something done. I
have even hired Union Labor - just average joes who are sitting around
the Union hall looking for work.

My observation is that just like every other thing, you get good Union
workers, so-so Union workers and lousy Union workers - more so-so and
lousy than good to outstanding Union workers. That has been my
experience.

We've had a rather interesting situation here in CT of having unions
strike unions for higher pay and benefits than the parent union gives
it's own members - and get them! There is something wrong with that.

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

So I'm ambivalent about unions. If pressed my opinion would be that
the era of big unions has passed on and that a return to local guilds
and trade groups would be more beneficial to the average tradesman or
worker.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would
have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us
a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An
electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display
speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy
Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician.
He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the
guy still acted like the world was about to end.

The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience.
The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of
that stuff.

Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said
the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got
under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a
slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady
"Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch
your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll
have you know he's an engineer with NASA".

Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-)

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would
have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us
a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An
electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display
speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy
Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician.
He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the
guy still acted like the world was about to end.

The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience.
The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of
that stuff.

Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said
the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got
under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a
slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady
"Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch
your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll
have you know he's an engineer with NASA".

Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-)

Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about
engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :)

I've got a ton of them.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.


Like a girls volleyball tournament that was held at the Philadelphia
Convention Center.

Following quoted from Philadelphia Daily News:

Its organizers can set up a complete volleyball court in an hour or less
with eight 14-year-old girls. But not in our Convention Center. Here, it
took six union laborers two hours a court at a cost of $65 per person
per hour. Because the four barrels holding down the volleyball poles are
filled with water, in Philadelphia this means you involve two plumbers
for two hours each to fill and place the four barrels needed for each court.

The bottom line: $135,000 for 30 courts as compared to $15,000 for 54
courts in Baltimore!

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house
tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office.


*Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not
just
say so.

And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a
non
union company would have beat it.

Why would you assume that krause is telling the truth about this when he
couldn't about his wife's degrees or his "lobsta boat"



What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? The way
you
rave about the details of the work makes it obvious you have never put
down
tile before. Hell, my sister tiled her own counter top and back splash
without a lick of problem. No need for union workers to do it for her.