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Oil 53.55 this morning...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:05:21 GMT, "tony thomas"
wrote: And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Let's play the link or liar contest. Link please. bb |
And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon
immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Unless you can substantiate that with something stronger than "Sean Hannity says........", I call bull**** http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...2004_0525.html Remember the gas tax promises of 2000? Bush was going to roll back the gas tax to provide some relief for middle class tax payers. Gas tax hasn't dropped a penny in four years, and Bush never proposed reducing it in any budget ever submitted to congress. Bush's version of middle class tax relief turned out to be eliminating capital gains taxes on the sale of stock held by corporations- and exempting most dividend income from taxation. I guess when you're as rich as the Bush family, folks who earn a living by clipping dividend coupons and trading in corporate owned stock are somewhere down around "middle class". http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidrespo...es/001470.html |
What's the *real* price of oil these days?
When you consider the military costs involved to try and secure a few countries in the middle east that we can ultimately compell to sell us as much oil as we want/need? Gotta be north of $100 a bbl. Cost of oil? $100. An arm and a leg. Your first born. John Kerry has proposed a $4000 tax credit for people who will buy hybrid or alternative fuel cars. That seems to me to be a bit more repsonsible than making a list of oil-rich countries where we can claim terrorists may be hiding. If everybody drove a hybrid car, we'd have all the more fuel left for my boat. :-) |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Unless you can substantiate that with something stronger than "Sean Hannity says........", I call bull**** http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...2004_0525.html WOW! How ground-breaking! "As part of his plan to do this, Kerry said he will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels, and establish a realistic fuel economy standard coupled with tax incentives for consumers to buy and manufacturers to build the efficient vehicles of the future. Specifically, Kerry said he will offer $10 billion in new incentives for the American automobile industry to lead the world in building Advanced Technology Vehicles and offer consumers a $4,000 tax credit to help them afford the vehicles. Kerry also said he will help families by managing the strategic petroleum reserve to protect our security without driving up prices and engaging in diplomacy to ensure US consumers are not held hostage to instability in the Middle East. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? |
So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate
future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Not so fast, NOYB. Your side of the fence lobbed a claim that "Kerry wants to increase gas taxes by 50 cents right away, and then another 50 cents later on." Substantiate that, or admit it's bull****, and then the discussion can move forward. |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Unless you can substantiate that with something stronger than "Sean Hannity says........", I call bull**** Kerry supported Carter's plan to add $0.50/gallon back in 1979. 1994: Kerry Supported Half-Dollar Increase In Gas Tax. (Jill Zuckman, "Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks To 7 N.E. Lawmakers," The Boston Globe, 3/1/94) "[Carter] Administration Officials Briefly Floated The Idea Of A 50-Cent-A-Gallon Gasoline Tax ..." (David Espo, "Kennedy Attacks Carter On OPEC Price Hikes," The Associated Press, 12/20/79) Sen. Edward Kennedy Said Plan Would Increase Inflation, Hurt Poor. Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) said the Carter "proposal to slap a 50-cent-a-gallon tax on gasoline ... would cost the average family $200 a year in 1981. 'The American public is already numb from the soaring cost of energy,' Kennedy said ... 'Yet the Carter administration is on the verge of proposing a 50-cent-a-gallon tax on gasoline.' ... Kennedy said such a tax would add 2 percent to 4 percent to inflation, impose an unfair burden on the poor, discriminate against areas with poor mass transit systems and fail to achieve a significant savings in gasoline consumption. ... 'I oppose any plan to impose a 50-cent-a-gallon gas tax,' Kennedy said in the statement." (David Espo, The Associated Press, 12/8/79) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you're right, Chuck...it is bull****. In *today's* dollars, it would be more like $1.50/gallon. |
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Unless you can substantiate that with something stronger than "Sean Hannity says........", I call bull**** http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...2004_0525.html WOW! How ground-breaking! "As part of his plan to do this, Kerry said he will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels, and establish a realistic fuel economy standard coupled with tax incentives for consumers to buy and manufacturers to build the efficient vehicles of the future. Specifically, Kerry said he will offer $10 billion in new incentives for the American automobile industry to lead the world in building Advanced Technology Vehicles and offer consumers a $4,000 tax credit to help them afford the vehicles. Kerry also said he will help families by managing the strategic petroleum reserve to protect our security without driving up prices and engaging in diplomacy to ensure US consumers are not held hostage to instability in the Middle East. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Consider the opposite: We now have a tax incentive available which included Hummers. I have no idea when it was enacted, but at the very least, Bush could interrupt his 18,000th game of Grand Theft Auto and spend a week eliminating a law which is an embarrassment, considering the current environment. |
Do YOU have any bright ideas for getting lazy thinkers to reconsider the
types of cars they buy, or how they use those cars? Or, is everything just fine the way it is? |
Doug Kanter wrote:
Consider the opposite: We now have a tax incentive available which included Hummers. I have no idea when it was enacted, but at the very least, Bush could interrupt his 18,000th game of Grand Theft Auto and spend a week eliminating a law which is an embarrassment, considering the current environment. Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? Last time I looked the opposite was true. There is a "Gas Guzzler" tax paid on all new vehicles that do not meet certain fuel mileage guidelines. Eisboch |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Not so fast, NOYB. Your side of the fence lobbed a claim that "Kerry wants to increase gas taxes by 50 cents right away, and then another 50 cents later on." Substantiate that, or admit it's bull****, and then the discussion can move forward. Kerry supported Carter's plan to add $0.50/gallon back in 1979. 1994: Kerry Supported Half-Dollar Increase In Gas Tax. (Jill Zuckman, "Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks To 7 N.E. Lawmakers," The Boston Globe, 3/1/94) "[Carter] Administration Officials Briefly Floated The Idea Of A 50-Cent-A-Gallon Gasoline Tax ..." (David Espo, "Kennedy Attacks Carter On OPEC Price Hikes," The Associated Press, 12/20/79) Sen. Edward Kennedy Said Plan Would Increase Inflation, Hurt Poor. Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) said the Carter "proposal to slap a 50-cent-a-gallon tax on gasoline ... would cost the average family $200 a year in 1981. 'The American public is already numb from the soaring cost of energy,' Kennedy said ... 'Yet the Carter administration is on the verge of proposing a 50-cent-a-gallon tax on gasoline.' ... Kennedy said such a tax would add 2 percent to 4 percent to inflation, impose an unfair burden on the poor, discriminate against areas with poor mass transit systems and fail to achieve a significant savings in gasoline consumption. ... 'I oppose any plan to impose a 50-cent-a-gallon gas tax,' Kennedy said in the statement." (David Espo, The Associated Press, 12/8/79) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So back to my questions: So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Unless you can substantiate that with something stronger than "Sean Hannity says........", I call bull**** http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...2004_0525.html WOW! How ground-breaking! "As part of his plan to do this, Kerry said he will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels, and establish a realistic fuel economy standard coupled with tax incentives for consumers to buy and manufacturers to build the efficient vehicles of the future. Specifically, Kerry said he will offer $10 billion in new incentives for the American automobile industry to lead the world in building Advanced Technology Vehicles and offer consumers a $4,000 tax credit to help them afford the vehicles. Kerry also said he will help families by managing the strategic petroleum reserve to protect our security without driving up prices and engaging in diplomacy to ensure US consumers are not held hostage to instability in the Middle East. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Consider the opposite: We now have a tax incentive available which included Hummers. I have no idea when it was enacted, but at the very least, Bush could interrupt his 18,000th game of Grand Theft Auto and spend a week eliminating a law which is an embarrassment, considering the current environment. Agreed. |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... And Kerry said he is going to raise the Gas tax by 50 cents a gallon immendiately and another 50 cents a gallon in 6 months. That will really help gas prices and the economy. Unless you can substantiate that with something stronger than "Sean Hannity says........", I call bull**** http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...2004_0525.html WOW! How ground-breaking! "As part of his plan to do this, Kerry said he will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels, and establish a realistic fuel economy standard coupled with tax incentives for consumers to buy and manufacturers to build the efficient vehicles of the future. Specifically, Kerry said he will offer $10 billion in new incentives for the American automobile industry to lead the world in building Advanced Technology Vehicles and offer consumers a $4,000 tax credit to help them afford the vehicles. Kerry also said he will help families by managing the strategic petroleum reserve to protect our security without driving up prices and engaging in diplomacy to ensure US consumers are not held hostage to instability in the Middle East. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Consider the opposite: We now have a tax incentive available which included Hummers. I have no idea when it was enacted, but at the very least, Bush could interrupt his 18,000th game of Grand Theft Auto and spend a week eliminating a law which is an embarrassment, considering the current environment. I agree with you...and apparently so does Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress: "Small business owners who want to purchase Hummers won't be so lucky, since lawmakers agreed to sew up what's been labeled a loophole in current tax law, which lets such businesses deduct up to $100,000 from their taxable income for purchasing a sport utility vehicle or a light truck weighing at least 6,000 pounds. This tax break became known as a loophole for business owners wanting to buy a Hummer or other large vehicles for personal use. Hummer models cost between $50,000 and $100,000. " http://www.investors.com/breakingnew...23448126&brk=1 |
Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax
incentive to purchase a Hummer? There is, or very recently was, a tax write off for vehicles above a certain GVW purchased by businesses. I think it was 7000 pounds. The auto industry says that the most significant impact of the law was a huge increase in the number of people buying the largest SUV's for use as executive vehicles. |
So back to my questions:
So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? I don't think it's realistic to expect either president to dramatically lower the price of gas in the immediate future. We need long term policies so that we aren't held hostage by every little feifdom on the planet with an oil well. As far as "how does the plan differ from Bush"........ http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy/compare.html |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... So back to my questions: So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? I don't think it's realistic to expect either president to dramatically lower the price of gas in the immediate future. We need long term policies so that we aren't held hostage by every little feifdom on the planet with an oil well. As far as "how does the plan differ from Bush"........ http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy/compare.html Working with Oil Producers Bush (according to Kerry): Broke his promise to force OPEC to "open the spigots" Kerry : Bring a renewed American position to work with OPEC to manage supply How does he plan to do that, hmmmmmm? I thought you guys are the ones who keep saying that Bush has more influence with the Saudis? Managing the Strategic Oil Reserve Bush (according to Kerry): Unnecessarily filling, which takes oil off an already tight market Kerry: Manage effectively to protect supply without hurting the economy " Using the SPR solely for political purposes to lower gasoline prices would reduce our protection and weaken our position in that war. "--Bush Increasing Fuel Efficiency Bush (according to Kerry): Ignores need for increased fuel efficiency Kerry: Set goals for increased fuel efficiency, rely on sound science False. Bush sent his energy plan to Congress earlier this year. The President's energy plan focuses on three top priorities: 1.. Encouraging new production, conservation, and technology like ethanol, clean coal and hydrogen power; 2.. Modernizing and expanding the electricity grid, and passing mandatory reliability standards so the system has adequate capacity; and, 3.. Promoting efficiency, raising fuel economy standards, and encouraging investment in our energy infrastructure. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: Consider the opposite: We now have a tax incentive available which included Hummers. I have no idea when it was enacted, but at the very least, Bush could interrupt his 18,000th game of Grand Theft Auto and spend a week eliminating a law which is an embarrassment, considering the current environment. Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? Last time I looked the opposite was true. There is a "Gas Guzzler" tax paid on all new vehicles that do not meet certain fuel mileage guidelines. Eisboch There was until very recently a huge incentive to purchase huge truck-like vehicles. I believe it was a one-year write-off...in other words, buy a huge pickup trick for your "business" (if you are a dentist, picking up a tank of laughing gas), write the whole purchase off in one year. "There is no reason for a dental office to own a truck. It'd be a hard sell to the IRS should you be audited."--Dr. NOYB's accountant in 2003. Ergo, I don't claim my vehicle (which *would* qualify) as a deduction. Some dentists that I know who own two offices, can claim the mileage driving between the offices as a deduction. There's a grey area for those folks when buying an SUV. The Section 179 expense limit was raised to $100,000 and should stay there...but the SUV deduction loophole portion of it should (and has been) cut. |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? There is, or very recently was, a tax write off for vehicles above a certain GVW purchased by businesses. I think it was 7000 pounds. The auto industry says that the most significant impact of the law was a huge increase in the number of people buying the largest SUV's for use as executive vehicles. An owner of an S-Corp who bought a $100,000 Hummer in 2003 and 2004 could deduct every penny of it...effectively saving himself in the neighborhood of $30,000 in taxes. He/she could essentially buy a large SUV for 70 cents on the dollar. |
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:10:56 -0400, Eisboch wrote:
Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? Last time I looked the opposite was true. There is a "Gas Guzzler" tax paid on all new vehicles that do not meet certain fuel mileage guidelines. Besides the tax deduction for businesses, it's my understanding that Hummers are exempt from cafe standards. http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0428-03.htm http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...hummer17.shtml |
Weren't you the person who proposed Bush must be on drugs for him to have a
poor showing on the first debate, and then have a respectable showing in the 2nd debate? Please substantiate that bit of bull****. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Not so fast, NOYB. Your side of the fence lobbed a claim that "Kerry wants to increase gas taxes by 50 cents right away, and then another 50 cents later on." Substantiate that, or admit it's bull****, and then the discussion can move forward. |
"Jon Smithe" wrote in message news:g6Aad.226519$D%.78729@attbi_s51... Weren't you the person who proposed Bush must be on drugs for him to have a poor showing on the first debate, and then have a respectable showing in the 2nd debate? Please substantiate that bit of bull****. Remember....if a liebral makes a statement, it must be accepted as fact....no questions asked.......... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... So which part of his plan will lower the price of gas in the immediate future? And how is his plan different from Bush's? Not so fast, NOYB. Your side of the fence lobbed a claim that "Kerry wants to increase gas taxes by 50 cents right away, and then another 50 cents later on." Substantiate that, or admit it's bull****, and then the discussion can move forward. |
Still waiting for an answer, NOYB:
Do YOU have any bright ideas for getting lazy thinkers to reconsider the types of cars they buy, or how they use those cars? Or, is everything just fine the way it is? To put it another way, it's EXTREMELY likely that this country could, in the not-so-distant future, exercise some leverage with oil prices in the same way I can exercise leverage with new car prices because there are at least 4 dealers for any brand of car in Rochester NY. To put it another way, people in relationships will refuse to admit they're wrong about even the most trivial crap until they've been dragged through 194 hours of couples counseling. Analogy: At some point, people need to give up their attitude of "God gave every American the right to own whatever vehicle we want, to drive it as much as we want, and maintain it as poorly as we want, and you're a fascist/commie/whatever if you suggest otherwise." Do you think it's worth beginning the oil consumption counseling now, or doesn't that give you as big a hard-on as seeing cities in flames? A real man would get a HUGE woody from being able to tell a supplier to shove their product. |
"Jon Smithe" wrote in message
news:g6Aad.226519$D%.78729@attbi_s51... Weren't you the person who proposed Bush must be on drugs for him to have a poor showing on the first debate, and then have a respectable showing in the 2nd debate? Please substantiate that bit of bull****. That may be bull****, but surely, SOMETHING is going on with your president. Watch this and tell me differently: http://media.ebaumsworld.com/sovereignty.mov |
Eisboch wrote:
Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? Yup. A business owner may purchase any vehicle with a GVW over 6,000 pounds for business purposes (wink, wink,) and take a deduction of up to $106,000 in the first year after buying a $110,000 Hummer H1. Right now the "opportunity" expires in 2006, but who knows... Go to http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-deduction.htm for all the gory details. Who ever said life was fair.... |
"John Wentworth" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? Yup. A business owner may purchase any vehicle with a GVW over 6,000 pounds for business purposes (wink, wink,) and take a deduction of up to $106,000 in the first year after buying a $110,000 Hummer H1. Right now the "opportunity" expires in 2006, but who knows... Go to http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-deduction.htm for all the gory details. Who ever said life was fair.... Hey...if a hard working bricklayer needs the biggest pickup truck on earth and actually uses it to haul tons of stone, that's one thing. But, some asshole who buys a hummer just to tool around in, that's bull****, especially since he probably whines as much as everyone else about oil this, oil that, OPEC's a bunch of crooks...blah blah blah. |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Still waiting for an answer, NOYB: Do YOU have any bright ideas for getting lazy thinkers to reconsider the types of cars they buy, or how they use those cars? Or, is everything just fine the way it is? I'd impose much stiffer gas guzzler taxes on vehicles before I'd tax gasoline. If the vehicle is necessary for business, I'd make the gas guzzler tax partially deductible/refundable so that businesses that need trucks/vans/SUV's aren't squeezed as hard by it. It must be realized that this would negatively impact truck/SUV sales, so the government must offset the tax with huge tax rebates to those factories which attain a certain production level of vehicles employing new fuel-saving technology. To put it another way, it's EXTREMELY likely that this country could, in the not-so-distant future, exercise some leverage with oil prices in the same way I can exercise leverage with new car prices because there are at least 4 dealers for any brand of car in Rochester NY. To put it another way, people in relationships will refuse to admit they're wrong about even the most trivial crap until they've been dragged through 194 hours of couples counseling. Analogy: At some point, people need to give up their attitude of "God gave every American the right to own whatever vehicle we want, to drive it as much as we want, and maintain it as poorly as we want, and you're a fascist/commie/whatever if you suggest otherwise." Do you think it's worth beginning the oil consumption counseling now, or doesn't that give you as big a hard-on as seeing cities in flames? A real man would get a HUGE woody from being able to tell a supplier to shove their product. Taxing gas isn't the answer. A person who is driving a hybrid fuel car may be doing so because they have a long commute to work and that's the only way they can fit fuel expenses into their budget. By taxing the fuel, you may make them exceed their budget, but leave them with no alternative. Taxing the purchase of products which use a lot of fuel is a better answer. It's cheaper to buy a two-stroke outboard motor than a four-stroke. If the government wants to attack the fuel economy issue and some environmental issues at the same time, then they should impose a stiff gas-guzzler/polluting tax on the conventional two-strokes. They can also offer huge incentives on the manufacturing side. Having manufacturers make large changes in technology is very expensive. The government needs to reward the companies which make those changes. |
"John Wentworth" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: Do I understand this statement correctly ... that there is a tax incentive to purchase a Hummer? Yup. A business owner may purchase any vehicle with a GVW over 6,000 pounds for business purposes (wink, wink,) and take a deduction of up to $106,000 in the first year after buying a $110,000 Hummer H1. Right now the "opportunity" expires in 2006, but who knows... Congress removed the loophole just last Friday. |
Weren't you the person who proposed Bush must be on drugs for him to have a
poor showing on the first debate, and then have a respectable showing in the 2nd debate? Please substantiate that bit of bull****. Nice Dodge. Your wife drive a Chrysler? I expressed an opinion, wondering why Bush was so different in the second debate. Some right wing reactionary stated as a fact, not an opinion "John Kerry will put in a 50 cent a gallon gas tax right away and another later on." Should be easily substantiated by quoting some bit of Kerry's energy proposal. So far, dead silence from the right and shameful attempts to switch the subject. If it is your opinion that there was no difference in GWB's performance between debate 1 and debate 2, fine. You're entitled. |
Very nice dodge. I like the way you turned the conversation from you making
a completely unsubstiated defamatory "opinion" to wither or not I saw any difference between the 1st and 2nd debate. Very good dodge, but not much of anything else. In my statement, I stated Bush did a poor job in the first debate and did a respectable job in the 2nd debate. There are so many reason for a difference in performance, and drugs would be one of the very last. The fact that you actually believe drugs is the most likely explanation says more about you than about Bush. By the way, have you found once piece of legistlation that Kerry sponsored that you think is important? "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Weren't you the person who proposed Bush must be on drugs for him to have a poor showing on the first debate, and then have a respectable showing in the 2nd debate? Please substantiate that bit of bull****. Nice Dodge. Your wife drive a Chrysler? I expressed an opinion, wondering why Bush was so different in the second debate. Some right wing reactionary stated as a fact, not an opinion "John Kerry will put in a 50 cent a gallon gas tax right away and another later on." Should be easily substantiated by quoting some bit of Kerry's energy proposal. So far, dead silence from the right and shameful attempts to switch the subject. If it is your opinion that there was no difference in GWB's performance between debate 1 and debate 2, fine. You're entitled. |
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Still waiting for an answer, NOYB: Do YOU have any bright ideas for getting lazy thinkers to reconsider the types of cars they buy, or how they use those cars? Or, is everything just fine the way it is? I'd impose much stiffer gas guzzler taxes on vehicles before I'd tax gasoline. If the vehicle is necessary for business, I'd make the gas guzzler tax partially deductible/refundable so that businesses that need trucks/vans/SUV's aren't squeezed as hard by it. Logical, although you'd have to work out some sort of highly detailed scheme for hobbyists, like someone who raises horses for kicks and needs one of those huge diesel pickups with a 5th wheel for the trailer. Same for people who haul an RV and need that same kind of truck. It must be realized that this would negatively impact truck/SUV sales, so the government must offset the tax with huge tax rebates to those factories which attain a certain production level of vehicles employing new fuel-saving technology. Only if those car makers redesign their SUVs to reflect the fact that maybe 10% of owners actually need the vehicles geared for off-road use. Otherwise, all they'll do is tweak the engines just enough to squeeze under whatever new limit is set. No redesign, no tax break. To put it another way, it's EXTREMELY likely that this country could, in the not-so-distant future, exercise some leverage with oil prices in the same way I can exercise leverage with new car prices because there are at least 4 dealers for any brand of car in Rochester NY. To put it another way, people in relationships will refuse to admit they're wrong about even the most trivial crap until they've been dragged through 194 hours of couples counseling. Analogy: At some point, people need to give up their attitude of "God gave every American the right to own whatever vehicle we want, to drive it as much as we want, and maintain it as poorly as we want, and you're a fascist/commie/whatever if you suggest otherwise." Do you think it's worth beginning the oil consumption counseling now, or doesn't that give you as big a hard-on as seeing cities in flames? A real man would get a HUGE woody from being able to tell a supplier to shove their product. Taxing gas isn't the answer. I'm not referring to taxing. I'm talking about an advertising scheme as pervasive as what we now see for tobacco, drugs and DWI. Taxing may cut demand indirectly, but changing minds is direct. If you don't believe this, take a peek at what the carbohydrate scandal has done to the earnings of the major bakers in this country. |
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:30:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: There are no angels. A - freakin' - men.... [1] Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 [1] Except for my two daughters and wife that is. :) |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:30:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: There are no angels. A - freakin' - men.... [1] Take care. Tom How did you like that lobster book, by the way? |
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:17:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:30:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: There are no angels. A - freakin' - men.... [1] Take care. Tom How did you like that lobster book, by the way? It's on the top of my pile of winter books - I was afraid that if I got into it, I'd waste a couple of summer days reading it. There is such a dearth of good reading material out there today that I ration my books. And I don't particularly care for action or adventure novels, except for sci-fi and that genre has pretty much gotten VERY boring and predictable. I've read every 19th century sailing hero novel ever written, five times over I might add, so that's out. I'm even thinking of breaking down and buying a DVD player for my office so I can catch up on movies this winter. ~~ sigh ~~ it's tough being old, 'ya know? :) Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:17:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:30:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: There are no angels. A - freakin' - men.... [1] Take care. Tom How did you like that lobster book, by the way? It's on the top of my pile of winter books - I was afraid that if I got into it, I'd waste a couple of summer days reading it. There is such a dearth of good reading material out there today that I ration my books. And I don't particularly care for action or adventure novels, except for sci-fi and that genre has pretty much gotten VERY boring and predictable. I've read every 19th century sailing hero novel ever written, five times over I might add, so that's out. I'm even thinking of breaking down and buying a DVD player for my office so I can catch up on movies this winter. ~~ sigh ~~ it's tough being old, 'ya know? :) Yeah...I know. Two weeks ago, I was out with Da Boyz - the same crew I've known for almost 20 years. I'm 51, and a youngster who's 47 started whining about his health, followed by how all supermarket cashiers are idiots. We took his drink away and told him we'd pants him and toss him in the parking lot if he kept it up. He was starting to sound like my 82 old mother in law. :-) |
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:17:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:30:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: There are no angels. A - freakin' - men.... [1] Take care. Tom How did you like that lobster book, by the way? It's on the top of my pile of winter books - I was afraid that if I got into it, I'd waste a couple of summer days reading it. There is such a dearth of good reading material out there today that I ration my books. And I don't particularly care for action or adventure novels, except for sci-fi and that genre has pretty much gotten VERY boring and predictable. I've read every 19th century sailing hero novel ever written, five times over I might add, so that's out. I'm even thinking of breaking down and buying a DVD player for my office so I can catch up on movies this winter. ~~ sigh ~~ it's tough being old, 'ya know? :) Yeah...I know. Two weeks ago, I was out with Da Boyz - the same crew I've known for almost 20 years. I'm 51, and a youngster who's 47 started whining about his health, followed by how all supermarket cashiers are idiots. We took his drink away and told him we'd pants him and toss him in the parking lot if he kept it up. He was starting to sound like my 82 old mother in law. :-) Speaking of books, I recommend The Last Sail Down East, which discusses the end of commercial sailing in the New England to Baltimore areas. Lots of nice photos, too. Sail power was not uncommon as late as WW II. Here's a page that references the book: http://www.hazegray.org/features/schooners/ |
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:15:24 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: ~~ snip age ~~ Speaking of books, I recommend The Last Sail Down East, which discusses the end of commercial sailing in the New England to Baltimore areas. Lots of nice photos, too. Sail power was not uncommon as late as WW II. Here's a page that references the book: http://www.hazegray.org/features/schooners/ I'll check that out. Thanks. Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Still waiting for an answer, NOYB: Do YOU have any bright ideas for getting lazy thinkers to reconsider the types of cars they buy, or how they use those cars? Or, is everything just fine the way it is? I'd impose much stiffer gas guzzler taxes on vehicles before I'd tax gasoline. If the vehicle is necessary for business, I'd make the gas guzzler tax partially deductible/refundable so that businesses that need trucks/vans/SUV's aren't squeezed as hard by it. Logical, although you'd have to work out some sort of highly detailed scheme for hobbyists, like someone who raises horses for kicks and needs one of those huge diesel pickups with a 5th wheel for the trailer. Same for people who haul an RV and need that same kind of truck. I would make no allowance for vehicles used for "hobbies". Hobbies cost money. If the tax puts a hobby out of reach financially, then it's time to find another hobby. It must be realized that this would negatively impact truck/SUV sales, so the government must offset the tax with huge tax rebates to those factories which attain a certain production level of vehicles employing new fuel-saving technology. Only if those car makers redesign their SUVs to reflect the fact that maybe 10% of owners actually need the vehicles geared for off-road use. Otherwise, all they'll do is tweak the engines just enough to squeeze under whatever new limit is set. No redesign, no tax break. Not if the limit is set high enough. They don't have to reinvent the wheel (at least not immediately), they just need to build a better mousetrap. To put it another way, it's EXTREMELY likely that this country could, in the not-so-distant future, exercise some leverage with oil prices in the same way I can exercise leverage with new car prices because there are at least 4 dealers for any brand of car in Rochester NY. To put it another way, people in relationships will refuse to admit they're wrong about even the most trivial crap until they've been dragged through 194 hours of couples counseling. Analogy: At some point, people need to give up their attitude of "God gave every American the right to own whatever vehicle we want, to drive it as much as we want, and maintain it as poorly as we want, and you're a fascist/commie/whatever if you suggest otherwise." Do you think it's worth beginning the oil consumption counseling now, or doesn't that give you as big a hard-on as seeing cities in flames? A real man would get a HUGE woody from being able to tell a supplier to shove their product. Taxing gas isn't the answer. I'm not referring to taxing. I'm talking about an advertising scheme as pervasive as what we now see for tobacco, drugs and DWI. Taxing may cut demand indirectly, but changing minds is direct. If you don't believe this, take a peek at what the carbohydrate scandal has done to the earnings of the major bakers in this country. You're assuming that people who buy the gas-guzzlers have a conscience. Otherwise, advertising won't work. A large gas guzzler premium *will* have an influence however. |
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:03:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . ~~ sniggappe ~~ ~~ sigh ~~ it's tough being old, 'ya know? :) Yeah...I know. Two weeks ago, I was out with Da Boyz - the same crew I've known for almost 20 years. I'm 51, and a youngster who's 47 started whining about his health, followed by how all supermarket cashiers are idiots. We took his drink away and told him we'd pants him and toss him in the parking lot if he kept it up. He was starting to sound like my 82 old mother in law. :-) Heh - my Platoon has a reunion every year - kind of a last man alive thing. We all put $100 into a kitty, placed under the control of a lawyer (now a law firm) whose instructions were to make at least 10% per annum reviewable every five years and the last man alive get's to spend it with any charity he so desires. There's a French word for it, but I can't remember what it is. Anyway, last years annual event, one of the guys started with the same crap only in this case he was complaining about the lack of roughage in diets and it degraded from there with his complaints about his health. We threw a bucket of ice over his head. :) All the best, Tom -------------- "What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup... is there a computer terminal in the day room of some looney bin somewhere?" Bilgeman - circa 2004 |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:03:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . ~~ sniggappe ~~ ~~ sigh ~~ it's tough being old, 'ya know? :) Yeah...I know. Two weeks ago, I was out with Da Boyz - the same crew I've known for almost 20 years. I'm 51, and a youngster who's 47 started whining about his health, followed by how all supermarket cashiers are idiots. We took his drink away and told him we'd pants him and toss him in the parking lot if he kept it up. He was starting to sound like my 82 old mother in law. :-) Heh - my Platoon has a reunion every year - kind of a last man alive thing. We all put $100 into a kitty, placed under the control of a lawyer (now a law firm) whose instructions were to make at least 10% per annum reviewable every five years and the last man alive get's to spend it with any charity he so desires. There's a French word for it, but I can't remember what it is. It's a phrase, not a word: Une boîte du vin. |
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:08:09 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:03:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . ~~ sniggappe ~~ ~~ sigh ~~ it's tough being old, 'ya know? :) Yeah...I know. Two weeks ago, I was out with Da Boyz - the same crew I've known for almost 20 years. I'm 51, and a youngster who's 47 started whining about his health, followed by how all supermarket cashiers are idiots. We took his drink away and told him we'd pants him and toss him in the parking lot if he kept it up. He was starting to sound like my 82 old mother in law. :-) Heh - my Platoon has a reunion every year - kind of a last man alive thing. We all put $100 into a kitty, placed under the control of a lawyer (now a law firm) whose instructions were to make at least 10% per annum reviewable every five years and the last man alive get's to spend it with any charity he so desires. There's a French word for it, but I can't remember what it is. It's a phrase, not a word: Une boîte du vin. A box of wine? Is this related to the WWI thing where everybody passed along a bottle until the last man? I thought it was one word and started with a T? Then again, I don't speak French very well. Spanish and Vietnamese with a touch of Laotian unfortunately. All the best, Tom -------------- "What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup... is there a computer terminal in the day room of some looney bin somewhere?" Bilgeman - circa 2004 |
It's a phrase, not a word: Une boîte du vin.
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: A box of wine? My wife loves boxed wine, but I can't imagine the French being impressed with it... ... Is this related to the WWI thing where everybody passed along a bottle until the last man? Possibly. I thought it was one word and started with a T? Tontine. I'm not sure if it's French or Latinate Legalese. One of the best episodes (imho of course) of TV M.A.S.H. is where Col. Potter receives a bottle of fine French wine, a tontine from some of his best WW1 buddies. Regards Doug King |
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