OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof
that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks
against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious
Palestinian terrorist.

Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just
weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US
history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the
then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of
the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the
Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day
"work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.

In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and
demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for
attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".

The second part of the memo, which is headed "Niger Shipment", contains a
report about an unspecified shipment - believed to be uranium - that it says
has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria.

Although Iraqi officials refused to disclose how and where they had obtained
the document, Dr Ayad Allawi, a member of Iraq's ruling seven-man
Presidential Committee, said the document was genuine.

"We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with
al-Qaeda," he said. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that
we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with
al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11
attacks."

Although Atta is believed to have been resident in Florida in the summer of
2001, he is known to have used more than a dozen aliases, and intelligence
experts believe he could easily have slipped out of the US to visit Iraq.

Abu Nidal, who was responsible for the failed assassination of the Israeli
ambassador to London in 1982, was based in Baghdad for more than two
decades.



http://makeashorterlink.com/?T25A31EC6

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

NOYB wrote:

Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof
that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks
against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious
Palestinian terrorist.



Wow! What a find! Was the ink dry on the hand-written note?




--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin reports.


For anyone attempting to find evidence to justify the war in Iraq, the
discovery of a document that directly links Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda
mastermind of the September 11 attacks, with the Baghdad training camp of
Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist, appears almost too good to be
true.

Ever since four hijacked civilian jets devastated the United States'
eastern seaboard on September 11, 2001, there have been any number of
reports circulating Western intelligence agencies suggesting that Saddam
Hussein's Iraq had close links to al-Qaeda.

Most of the claims relate to meetings between al-Qaeda and Iraqi
intelligence to discuss co-operation on matters such as funding, training
and equipment.

Prior to the discovery of the document published today by the
Telegraph, the most controversial report related to the suggestion that Atta
had met Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, a senior Iraqi intelligence
officer, in Prague in April 2001.

But while both President Bush and Tony Blair have dropped numerous
hints that they believe there was a significant level of co-operation
between Saddam and al-Qaeda, their respective intelligence agencies have
actively sought to downplay the significance of the relationship, especially
the suggestion that Saddam was in any way involved in the September 11
attacks.

To this end America's Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), with the
backing of Britain's MI6, have poured scorn on Atta's Prague meeting.

However, the tantalising detail provided in the intelligence document
uncovered by Iraq's interim government suggests that Atta's involvement with
Iraqi intelligence may well have been far deeper than has hitherto been
acknowledged.

Written in the neat, precise hand of Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti,
the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and one of the few
named in the US government's pack of cards of most-wanted Iraqis not to have
been apprehended, the personal memo to Saddam is signed by Habbush in
distinctive green ink.

Headed simply "Intelligence Items", and dated July 1, 2001, it is
addressed: "To the President of the Ba'ath Revolution Party and President of
the Republic, may God protect you."

The first paragraph states that "Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian national,
came with Abu Ammer (an Arabic nom-de-guerre - his real identity is unknown)
and we hosted him in Abu Nidal's house at al-Dora under our direct
supervision.

"We arranged a work programme for him for three days with a team
dedicated to working with him . . . He displayed extraordinary effort and
showed a firm commitment to lead the team which will be responsible for
attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy."

There is nothing in the document that provides any clue to the
identity of the "targets", although Iraqi officials say it is a coded
reference to the September 11 attacks.

The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence, helped by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an (unspecified)
shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya and Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference in
the document to this.

Habbush writes that the successful completion of the shipment was "the
fruit of your excellent secret meeting with Bashir al-Asad (the Syrian
president) on the Iraqi-Syrian border", and concludes: "May God protect you
and save you to all Arab nations."

While it is almost impossible to ascertain whether or not the document
is legitimate or a clever fake, Iraqi officials working for the interim
government are convinced of its authenticity, even though they decline to
reveal where and how they obtained it. "It is not important how we found
it," said a senior Iraqi security official. "The important thing is that we
did find it and the information it contains."

A leading member of Iraq's governing council, who asked not to be
named, said he was convinced of the document's authenticity.

"There are people who are working with us who used to work with
Habbush who are convinced that it is his handwriting and signature. We are
uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's dealings with al-Qaeda, and
this document shows the extent of the old regime's involvement with the
international terrorist network."

This is the second document published by this newspaper that appears
to highlight Saddam's links with al-Qaeda. Earlier this year the Telegraph
published details of another Iraqi intelligence document that indicated
Saddam's regime was attempting to set up a meeting with Osama bin Laden, the
al-Qaeda leader, who was then based in Sudan.

Intelligence experts point out that a memo such as that written by
Habbush would of necessity be vague and short. "Trained intelligence
officers hate putting anything down in writing," said one former CIA
officer. "You never know where it might turn up."

Certainly the memo's detail concerning Mohammed Atta and Abu Nidal
fits in with the known movements of the two terrorists in the summer of
2001. Abu Nidal, the renegade Palestinian terrorist responsible for a wave
of outrages in the 1980s, such as the 1985 bomb attacks on Rome and Vienna
airports, was based in Baghdad, under Saddam's personal protection, for most
of his career.

Having briefly relocated to Libya, Abu Nidal returned to Baghdad at
some point in early 2001. At the time it was assumed that Saddam had lured
the Palestinian terrorist back to help the Iraqi leader plan a number of
terrorist attacks aimed at destabilising American plans to remove him.

In particular, Saddam wanted Abu Nidal to revive his network of
"sleeper cells" in Europe and the Middle East to carry out a new wave of
attacks. During 2001 Abu Nidal lived in a number of houses in the Baghdad
area, including a spacious home in the al-Dora district where he is reported
to have met Atta.

The relationship between Abu Nidal and Saddam, however, quickly turned
sour, mainly because - as the Telegraph reported at the time - the ageing
Palestinian leader was reluctant to accede to Saddam's request to train
al-Qaeda fighters in sophisticated terrorist techniques.

Abu Nidal was murdered in August 2001, although the Iraqis tried to
claim that he had committed suicide. Habbush appeared at a hastily arranged
press conference in Baghdad in an attempt to persuade the sceptical Arab
media that Abu Nidal had taken his own life after Iraqi investigators had
uncovered a plot to assassinate Saddam.

Although Western intelligence agencies have attempted to trace Atta's
movements in the months preceding September 11, there remain several periods
during which his precise whereabouts are unknown. Having moved to Florida
from Hamburg in 2000, Atta is known to have made at least two trips from the
US to Europe in 2001.

In early January he flew to Madrid for a few days. His next confirmed
trip was to Zurich in early July. In between, American investigators have
concluded from a detailed examination of Atta's credit cards and phone
records, that he spent most of the spring and early summer of 2001 in
Florida, interspersed by occasional domestic trips. The only confirmed
sighting of Atta during this period, however, was on April 26 when he was
pulled over for a traffic violation in Florida.

This traffic offence, taken with other evidence collated by FBI
agents, is one of the reasons that CIA officials have discounted the report
that Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague earlier in the month
(the Czech authorities claim Atta was in Prague on April 8). Yesterday the
New York Times reported that Ani, who was taken into US custody last July,
had told American interrogators that he had not met Atta in Prague.

"The Prague meeting does not appear very convincing," said Lorenzo
Vidino, a terrorism analyst at The Investigative Project, a non-profit
organisation that investigates international terrorism, in Washington. "But
even if that meeting did not take place you have to remember that Atta used
a large number of aliases when he travelled. It is not inconceivable that
Atta slipped out of the US undetected sometime in the first half of 2001."

The US Congressional report into the September 11 attacks states that
Atta used 16 to 17 known aliases, although American intelligence experts
concede that there may have been others.

It is entirely conceivable, then, that Atta secretly made his way to
Baghdad to undertake training with Abu Nidal a few months before the
September 11 attacks. But as long as Saddam and his senior intelligence
operatives remain at large, it is impossible to assess just how much they
knew about, and were involved in, the planning and execution of the
September 11 atrocities.

.Con Coughlin is the author of Saddam: The Secret Life (Macmillan)

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin reports.


For anyone attempting to find evidence to justify the war in Iraq, the
discovery of a document that directly links Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda
mastermind of the September 11 attacks, with the Baghdad training camp of
Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist, appears almost too good to be
true.

Your answer may be found in the last phrase of the sentence...

"...too good to be true."

Some Bush-ite from Faux News probably planted the document.




--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a
meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin
reports.


For anyone attempting to find evidence to justify the war in Iraq,
the
discovery of a document that directly links Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda
mastermind of the September 11 attacks, with the Baghdad training camp
of
Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist, appears almost too good
to be
true.

Your answer may be found in the last phrase of the sentence...

"...too good to be true."

Perhaps. However, what *would* it take to convince someone like yourself
that there was a definitive link?



Some Bush-ite from Faux News probably planted the document.


Sure. That's why the reporting of such a document is nowhere to be found on
Fox's website.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a
meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin
reports.


Nidal is a Palestinian terrorist. Not an Iraqi terrorist.
What does that tell you?

What about the fact that many of the the 9-11 terrorists made Florida
their home and in fact received their training there...

Perhaps we should bomb the crap out of Florida.

What's your address again?




--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

I think we should use the new hi tech bombs to just blow the hell out of
every single democrat in the US, that will teach them to mess around with a
republican president. We will bomb the democrats back to the stone age.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a
meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin
reports.


Nidal is a Palestinian terrorist. Not an Iraqi terrorist.
What does that tell you?

What about the fact that many of the the 9-11 terrorists made Florida
their home and in fact received their training there...

Perhaps we should bomb the crap out of Florida.

What's your address again?




--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a
meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin
reports.


Nidal is a Palestinian terrorist. Not an Iraqi terrorist.
What does that tell you?

What about the fact that many of the the 9-11 terrorists made Florida
their home and in fact received their training there...

Perhaps we should bomb the crap out of Florida.

Florida is part of the US. You're showing your hatred for our country once
again.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a
meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin
reports.


Nidal is a Palestinian terrorist. Not an Iraqi terrorist.
What does that tell you?

What about the fact that many of the the 9-11 terrorists made Florida
their home and in fact received their training there...

Perhaps we should bomb the crap out of Florida.

Florida is part of the US. You're showing your hatred for our country once
again.




I see. So it is ok to plan terrorist acts against the USA if you are
*in* the USA...you can do that without fear of being invaded or bombed.

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. You never know when the next pack of
native-born right-wing conservative extremists will blow up a building.

--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:

Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a meeting
between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin reports.

Possibly, but I would be careful. Chalabi is on the Iraqi Council. If he
had anything to do with it, it's probably garbage. Chalabi has already
fed Rumsfeld considerable bad intelligence.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence, helped
by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an
(unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya and
Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference
in the document to this.

I think, at least this part, is BS. IMO uranium from Niger has been
totally debunked. An interesting read:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:


Does this link Saddam to 9/11?
(Filed: 12/14/2003)


A document discovered by Iraq's interim government details a

meeting

between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the
Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin

reports.


For anyone attempting to find evidence to justify the war in Iraq,

the

discovery of a document that directly links Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda
mastermind of the September 11 attacks, with the Baghdad training camp

of

Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist, appears almost too good

to be

true.


Your answer may be found in the last phrase of the sentence...

"...too good to be true."


Perhaps. However, what *would* it take to convince someone like yourself
that there was a definitive link?



Some Bush-ite from Faux News probably planted the document.



Sure. That's why the reporting of such a document is nowhere to be found on
Fox's website.



May I submit a better question is just how dangerous would it be to
allow that motley bunch of extreme loons from the left to get back into
power??

Harry is just an example of how they will happily bag their own country
& even more happily see citizens & brave soldiers at risk if it furthers
their political aims.

Bush is continuing to do a good job in routing out these terrorists &
as always the US & allied armed men & women are performing
magnificently, with some truly sad loss of life. Again the left seem to
think allied casualties are nothing more than a political opportunity
for them; the average US citizen will use the ballot to meter out it's
punishment to these lefty grubs in it's own good time.

If nothing else Harry serves as a public insight into just how dumb &
sick the left is, so ensuring Bush's second term & a much better chance
that the world economy might still avoid a meltdown.

Good work Harold keep those lies a comin' you sick *******.

K

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence,
helped
by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an
(unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya and
Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference
in the document to this.

I think, at least this part, is BS. IMO uranium from Niger has been
totally debunked.

Actually, the uranium from Niger report hasn't been totally debunked.
British intelligence stands by its original story. If you remember, it was
CIA employee Valerie Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, who made the claim that
he could find no evidence of the uranium transfer...and his bias is
evidenced by his maxed out campaign contributions to the Democratic Party
and John Kerry's campaign...and by the anti-war piece he wrote for Nation
magazine in February.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:10:52 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence,
helped
by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an
(unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya and
Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit
reference in the document to this.

I think, at least this part, is BS. IMO uranium from Niger has been
totally debunked.

Actually, the uranium from Niger report hasn't been totally debunked.
British intelligence stands by its original story. If you remember, it
was CIA employee Valerie Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, who made the
claim that he could find no evidence of the uranium transfer...and his
bias is evidenced by his maxed out campaign contributions to the
Democratic Party and John Kerry's campaign...and by the anti-war piece he
wrote for Nation magazine in February.

Read the above. It says Iraq *acquired* uranium from Niger. There is no
evidence of this. The documents that sent Wilson to Niger have been
proven and accepted to be forgeries. What the British claim is
that they have additional information that Iraq *sought* to buy uranium
from Niger. That information is most likely from French intelligence.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...International/

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030...4149-3172r.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/thisw...999291,00.html

And again, to put the pieces together:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:10:52 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence,
helped
by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an
(unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya
and
Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the
controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in
his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit
reference in the document to this.

I think, at least this part, is BS. IMO uranium from Niger has been
totally debunked.

Actually, the uranium from Niger report hasn't been totally debunked.
British intelligence stands by its original story. If you remember, it
was CIA employee Valerie Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, who made the
claim that he could find no evidence of the uranium transfer...and his
bias is evidenced by his maxed out campaign contributions to the
Democratic Party and John Kerry's campaign...and by the anti-war piece
he
wrote for Nation magazine in February.

Read the above. It says Iraq *acquired* uranium from Niger.

No it doesn't. It talks of an "unspecified" shipment from Niger to
Baghdad...which was shipped with the help of al qaeda via Lybia and Syria.


There is no
evidence of this. The documents that sent Wilson to Niger have been
proven and accepted to be forgeries. What the British claim is
that they have additional information that Iraq *sought* to buy uranium
from Niger. That information is most likely from French intelligence.


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...e0308/BNPrint/
International/

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030...4149-3172r.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/thisw...999291,00.html

And again, to put the pieces together:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:47:16 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:10:52 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence,
helped
by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an
(unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya
and
Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the
controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in
his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit
reference in the document to this.

I think, at least this part, is BS. IMO uranium from Niger has been
totally debunked.

Actually, the uranium from Niger report hasn't been totally debunked.
British intelligence stands by its original story. If you remember,
it was CIA employee Valerie Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, who made
the claim that he could find no evidence of the uranium transfer...and
his bias is evidenced by his maxed out campaign contributions to the
Democratic Party and John Kerry's campaign...and by the anti-war piece
he
wrote for Nation magazine in February.

Read the above. It says Iraq *acquired* uranium from Niger.

No it doesn't. It talks of an "unspecified" shipment from Niger to
Baghdad...which was shipped with the help of al qaeda via Lybia and Syria.

Huh? "Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference
in the document to this."

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:47:16 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:10:52 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:29:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence,
helped
by
"a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an
(unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya
and
Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the
controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in
his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit
reference in the document to this.

I think, at least this part, is BS. IMO uranium from Niger has been
totally debunked.

Actually, the uranium from Niger report hasn't been totally debunked.
British intelligence stands by its original story. If you remember,
it was CIA employee Valerie Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, who made
the claim that he could find no evidence of the uranium
transfer...and
his bias is evidenced by his maxed out campaign contributions to the
Democratic Party and John Kerry's campaign...and by the anti-war
piece
he
wrote for Nation magazine in February.

Read the above. It says Iraq *acquired* uranium from Niger.

No it doesn't. It talks of an "unspecified" shipment from Niger to
Baghdad...which was shipped with the help of al qaeda via Lybia and
Syria.

Huh? "Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial
shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his
efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference
in the document to this."'

The memo cited in the news report talks of an "unspecified" shipment. The
news report itself says "Iraqi officials believe this is reference to the
controversial shipments of uranium". The original Italian document proved
to be forgery...but MI6 stands by their intel that said that Iraq indeed did
seek uranium. I feel you just can't say for sure that an attempt to
purchase uranium never took place.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
...


Nidal is a Palestinian terrorist. Not an Iraqi terrorist.
What does that tell you?

What about the fact that many of the the 9-11 terrorists made Florida
their home and in fact received their training there...

Perhaps we should bomb the crap out of Florida.

Florida is part of the US. You're showing your hatred for our country
once
again.

No, Einstein. He's pointing out that a terrorists place of training does not
automatically assign guilt to that country. If the world ran according to
your logic, then the U.S.A. would be guilty of harboring terrorists. After
all, they *did* learn to fly those planes at flight schools here, not
abroad.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:3knDb.12069

No, Einstein. He's pointing out that a terrorists place of training does
not
automatically assign guilt to that country. If the world ran according to
your logic, then the U.S.A. would be guilty of harboring terrorists. After
all, they *did* learn to fly those planes at flight schools here, not
abroad.

There's a world of difference between sending people to a flight school as
innocuous individuals under false pretenses, and setting up a paramilitary
training camp with the express approval and financial support of the host
country. You do see that, don't you?

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:3knDb.12069

No, Einstein. He's pointing out that a terrorists place of training does
not
automatically assign guilt to that country. If the world ran according
to
your logic, then the U.S.A. would be guilty of harboring terrorists.
After
all, they *did* learn to fly those planes at flight schools here, not
abroad.

There's a world of difference between sending people to a flight school as
innocuous individuals under false pretenses, and setting up a paramilitary
training camp with the express approval and financial support of the host
country. You do see that, don't you?



Yes. And a meeting between two people in Baghdad doesn't necessarily
constitute a training camp. Or, if it does, then the same thing applies to a
Muslim house of worship in New Jersey, in which case the port authority may
be liable for helping terrorists get from Manhattan to Jersey City
repeatedly.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:vgpDb.12073


Yes. And a meeting between two people in Baghdad doesn't necessarily
constitute a training camp. Or, if it does, then the same thing applies to
a
Muslim house of worship in New Jersey, in which case the port authority
may
be liable for helping terrorists get from Manhattan to Jersey City
repeatedly.

Your point carries in principle, but suffers under realistic examination.
The fact is that because of the way our country operates, with open borders,
etc., just about anyone can come to school here (flight or otherwise), or
come visit a house of worship, without knowledge of the government -- at
least not immediate or timely knowledge.

But the reverse is not true. No one - no one at all - gets into a
mid-eastern country, particularly one of the ilk of Iraq, Iran, Syria, SA,
without the police agencies being precisely aware of the who, where, and
why of your visit. To schedule or attend a meeting with a government
official would increase your 'attention quotient' in spades. There could be
no such thing as a casual meeting in Baghdad involving either a known
terrorist or a government official without security agency knowledge and
consent.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:vgpDb.12073


Yes. And a meeting between two people in Baghdad doesn't necessarily
constitute a training camp. Or, if it does, then the same thing applies
to
a
Muslim house of worship in New Jersey, in which case the port authority
may
be liable for helping terrorists get from Manhattan to Jersey City
repeatedly.

Your point carries in principle, but suffers under realistic examination.
The fact is that because of the way our country operates, with open
borders,
etc., just about anyone can come to school here (flight or otherwise), or
come visit a house of worship, without knowledge of the government -- at
least not immediate or timely knowledge.

But the reverse is not true. No one - no one at all - gets into a
mid-eastern country, particularly one of the ilk of Iraq, Iran, Syria, SA,
without the police agencies being precisely aware of the who, where, and
why of your visit. To schedule or attend a meeting with a government
official would increase your 'attention quotient' in spades. There could
be
no such thing as a casual meeting in Baghdad involving either a known
terrorist or a government official without security agency knowledge and
consent.

OK. Where did they meet in Baghdad?

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

John Gaquin wrote:

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:3knDb.12069

No, Einstein. He's pointing out that a terrorists place of training does
not
automatically assign guilt to that country. If the world ran according to
your logic, then the U.S.A. would be guilty of harboring terrorists. After
all, they *did* learn to fly those planes at flight schools here, not
abroad.

There's a world of difference between sending people to a flight school as
innocuous individuals under false pretenses, and setting up a paramilitary
training camp with the express approval and financial support of the host
country. You do see that, don't you?



Indeed, we set up lots of military training camps with the approval and
support of our government. It's OK when we do it, but not when others do it?

Did those paramilitary units invade the United States and take over our
major cities?

Did our military units invade other countries and take over their major
cities?



--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:3knDb.12069

No, Einstein. He's pointing out that a terrorists place of training
does
not
automatically assign guilt to that country. If the world ran according
to
your logic, then the U.S.A. would be guilty of harboring terrorists.
After
all, they *did* learn to fly those planes at flight schools here, not
abroad.

There's a world of difference between sending people to a flight school
as
innocuous individuals under false pretenses, and setting up a
paramilitary
training camp with the express approval and financial support of the
host
country. You do see that, don't you?



Yes. And a meeting between two people in Baghdad doesn't necessarily
constitute a training camp.

Doug,
The Iraqi gov't issued sanctuary to Abu Nidal. He wasn't living there
clandestinely. If he was meeting with al Qaeda, it was with the full
knowledge of Saddam. All of those issues makes that situation a far cry
from two terrorists meeting in New Jersey.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Probably in the same apartment in which Abu Nidal was gunned down in shortly
thereafter.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:vgpDb.12073


Yes. And a meeting between two people in Baghdad doesn't necessarily
constitute a training camp. Or, if it does, then the same thing
applies
to
a
Muslim house of worship in New Jersey, in which case the port
authority
may
be liable for helping terrorists get from Manhattan to Jersey City
repeatedly.

Your point carries in principle, but suffers under realistic
examination.
The fact is that because of the way our country operates, with open
borders,
etc., just about anyone can come to school here (flight or otherwise),
or
come visit a house of worship, without knowledge of the government -- at
least not immediate or timely knowledge.

But the reverse is not true. No one - no one at all - gets into a
mid-eastern country, particularly one of the ilk of Iraq, Iran, Syria,
SA,
without the police agencies being precisely aware of the who, where,
and
why of your visit. To schedule or attend a meeting with a government
official would increase your 'attention quotient' in spades. There
could
be
no such thing as a casual meeting in Baghdad involving either a known
terrorist or a government official without security agency knowledge and
consent.

OK. Where did they meet in Baghdad?

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:LIpDb.12075

OK. Where did they meet in Baghdad?

I have no idea where they met, and the where is beside the point. My point
was that it could not have been a "casual" meeting. It could not have
occurred without knowledge and consent of the Iraqi security forces.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:LIpDb.12075

OK. Where did they meet in Baghdad?

I have no idea where they met, and the where is beside the point. My
point
was that it could not have been a "casual" meeting. It could not have
occurred without knowledge and consent of the Iraqi security forces.

That's quite an "absolute". I'm sure Iraq was (and will again become) an
Orwellian nightmare, but when WE have chosen to watch someone, we're capable
of creating the same situation for that person. Still, it's not foolproof,
and various attacks have shown.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news:LIpDb.12075

OK. Where did they meet in Baghdad?

I have no idea where they met, and the where is beside the point. My
point
was that it could not have been a "casual" meeting. It could not have
occurred without knowledge and consent of the Iraqi security forces.

That's quite an "absolute". I'm sure Iraq was (and will again become) an
Orwellian nightmare, but when WE have chosen to watch someone, we're
capable
of creating the same situation for that person. Still, it's not foolproof,
and various attacks have shown.



Oops. "AS various attacks...."

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Jack Meholf" wrote in message news:V04Db.540493$HS4.4112918@attbi_s01...
I think we should use the new hi tech bombs to just blow the hell out of
every single democrat in the US, that will teach them to mess around with a
republican president. We will bomb the democrats back to the stone age.

There you go, proof that republicans shouldn't breed. Spoken like a true dolt.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"NOYB" wrote in message news:JVtDb.79121$%
Doug,
The Iraqi gov't issued sanctuary to Abu Nidal. He wasn't living there
clandestinely. If he was meeting with al Qaeda, it was with the full
knowledge of Saddam. All of those issues makes that situation a far cry
from two terrorists meeting in New Jersey.

You sound like Rush/Bush. IF, PERHAPS, etc. Just about as much
substance and truth to your statements as Bush saying his people KNOW
there are WMD's, etc.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"NOYB" wrote in message ...
Probably in the same apartment in which Abu Nidal was gunned down in shortly
thereafter.

More pure speculation. But then again, you republicans don't mind
going into a country, unprovoked, and blowing it to hell, along with
innocent men, women and children, all based on nothing more than wild
speculation.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

I think with you we should just castrate you. It might teach the other
idiots to behave.


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Jack Meholf" wrote in message
news:V04Db.540493$HS4.4112918@attbi_s01...
I think we should use the new hi tech bombs to just blow the hell out of
every single democrat in the US, that will teach them to mess around
with a
republican president. We will bomb the democrats back to the stone age.

There you go, proof that republicans shouldn't breed. Spoken like a true
dolt.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Jack Meholf wrote:

I think with you we should just castrate you. It might teach the other
idiots to behave.


Oh, come on, Jim. You haven't the balls to castrate a sugar-plum fairy.
--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Sure I do, I would even castrate a fairy like yourself. ; )


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jack Meholf wrote:

I think with you we should just castrate you. It might teach the other
idiots to behave.


Oh, come on, Jim. You haven't the balls to castrate a sugar-plum fairy.
--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

"Jack Meholf" wrote in message news:OMhEb.585039$Tr4.1560563@attbi_s03...
I think with you we should just castrate you. It might teach the other
idiots to behave.


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Jack Meholf" wrote in message
news:V04Db.540493$HS4.4112918@attbi_s01...
I think we should use the new hi tech bombs to just blow the hell out of
every single democrat in the US, that will teach them to mess around
with a
republican president. We will bomb the democrats back to the stone age.

There you go, proof that republicans shouldn't breed. Spoken like a true
dolt.

Jack, I've told you before. I'm in your area. Time and place, please,
then you may try to castrate me. Be a man, Jack. If you think you can
do something like that to me, tell me where you are. You can email me.
Then, we'll post the results to the newgroup.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Isn't Usenet just great, you can puff up and look all tough for everyone.
Will you break my pencil neck for me?


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Jack Meholf" wrote in message
news:OMhEb.585039$Tr4.1560563@attbi_s03...
I think with you we should just castrate you. It might teach the other
idiots to behave.


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Jack Meholf" wrote in message
news:V04Db.540493$HS4.4112918@attbi_s01...
I think we should use the new hi tech bombs to just blow the hell
out of
every single democrat in the US, that will teach them to mess around
with a
republican president. We will bomb the democrats back to the stone
age.

There you go, proof that republicans shouldn't breed. Spoken like a
true
dolt.

Jack, I've told you before. I'm in your area. Time and place, please,
then you may try to castrate me. Be a man, Jack. If you think you can
do something like that to me, tell me where you are. You can email me.
Then, we'll post the results to the newgroup.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Jack Meholf wrote:
Isn't Usenet just great, you can puff up and look all tough for everyone.
Will you break my pencil neck for me?


So, Gallow, how much did you get for that wakeboard boat?

--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Are you going to break my neck too? Wow, all the kind hearted individuals
are busy high fiveing each other.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jack Meholf wrote:
Isn't Usenet just great, you can puff up and look all tough for
everyone.
Will you break my pencil neck for me?


So, Gallow, how much did you get for that wakeboard boat?

--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Jack Meholf wrote:

Are you going to break my neck too? Wow, all the kind hearted individuals
are busy high fiveing each other.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jack Meholf wrote:
Isn't Usenet just great, you can puff up and look all tough for
everyone.
Will you break my pencil neck for me?


So, Gallow, how much did you get for that wakeboard boat?

--
Email sent to is never read.



Nope. I just want to know how much you got for the wakeboard boat,
Gallow. Oh...and that your son is doing well in college.

--
Email sent to is never read.

OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
 

Subject: OT--Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
From: "Jack Meholf"
Date: 12/19/03 3:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: l7MEb.599772$Tr4.1568003@attbi_s03

Are you going to break my neck too? Wow, all the kind hearted individuals
are busy high fiveing each other.


why don't you just take him up on it?

chris