|
Follow Up Question: Weak Battery with Two Dry Plates
Earlier I had reported that I was in the process of recharging a
battery that had been weak and I thought might have lost its water prematurely. After a trickle charge of 24 hours, a hydrometer test still seemed to reveal one weak cell (the five balls would rise to the top, then drop back down. On other cells, only one ball would drop.) The bad cell was not one of the originally dry ones. Very little "gurgling" action was shown in the cell while charging. I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) He said the bad hydrometer reading was probably due to imcompletely mixed acid and water. The battery has not been put back into service, but before I did, I thought I would ask the experts! Did the hydrometer test lie, or is the cell really NG, in which case the AZ guy was wrong and I'll have a future problem again. (Really can't imagine the cell would be bad if the battery put out more than 12 volts under load.) Once again, thanks so much for your help! Frank |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:53:27 GMT, frank1492
wrote: Earlier I had reported that I was in the process of recharging a battery that had been weak and I thought might have lost its water prematurely. After a trickle charge of 24 hours, a hydrometer test still seemed to reveal one weak cell (the five balls would rise to the top, then drop back down. On other cells, only one ball would drop.) The bad cell was not one of the originally dry ones. Very little "gurgling" action was shown in the cell while charging. I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) He said the bad hydrometer reading was probably due to imcompletely mixed acid and water. The battery has not been put back into service, but before I did, I thought I would ask the experts! Did the hydrometer test lie, or is the cell really NG, in which case the AZ guy was wrong and I'll have a future problem again. (Really can't imagine the cell would be bad if the battery put out more than 12 volts under load.) Once again, thanks so much for your help! It's possible to have an incomplete mix, but highly unlikely. I'd have it retested.at a different store or repair shop. With one cell theoritically bad, it shoudl read marginal at best. Later, Tom |
In article , frank1492
@worldnet.att.net says... Earlier I had reported that I was in the process of recharging a battery that had been weak and I thought might have lost its water prematurely. After a trickle charge of 24 hours, a hydrometer test still seemed to reveal one weak cell (the five balls would rise to the top, then drop back down. On other cells, only one ball would drop.) The bad cell was not one of the originally dry ones. Very little "gurgling" action was shown in the cell while charging. I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) He said the bad hydrometer reading was probably due to imcompletely mixed acid and water. The battery has not been put back into service, but before I did, I thought I would ask the experts! Did the hydrometer test lie, or is the cell really NG, in which case the AZ guy was wrong and I'll have a future problem again. (Really can't imagine the cell would be bad if the battery put out more than 12 volts under load.) Once again, thanks so much for your help! Frank Lets put it this way. As a battery charges it gives up some of it's liquid in the form of gas. After some period of time that liquid has to be replenished with distilled water. In simple terms.......... Your charging system has a regulator that turns on and off the charging current to the battery as needed to prevent over charging and excessive fluid loss. In one case, if the regulator goes bad the battery recessives constant charging current and you lose fluid more rapidly then you should. I've never had one fail the other way, no current to the battery that is, but I suppose it could happen. The next case is if you have a dead cell. These usually result from derbies from the battery plates falling to the bottom of the battery and shorting out a cell. While the battery may show the required voltage a dead cell will cause a regulator to constantly provide charging current to the battery and also result in a more rapid loss of fluid. I'd be more inclined to trust a hydrometer that showed five out of six cells as ok then the test done where ever. Now, if the hydrometer had shown all cells as dead I'd be looking for a new one. However, you can use the hydrometer to suck up and shoot the acid mix in to and out of the suspect cell to "mix" the acid water and see what happens. Another option is to put the battery back in and go out and bounce the boat of a few wakes then retest with the hydrometer. -- MikeG Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:48:26 -0400, MikeG
wrote: In article , frank1492 says... Earlier I had reported that I was in the process of recharging a battery that had been weak and I thought might have lost its water prematurely. After a trickle charge of 24 hours, a hydrometer test still seemed to reveal one weak cell (the five balls would rise to the top, then drop back down. On other cells, only one ball would drop.) The bad cell was not one of the originally dry ones. Very little "gurgling" action was shown in the cell while charging. I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) He said the bad hydrometer reading was probably due to imcompletely mixed acid and water. The battery has not been put back into service, but before I did, I thought I would ask the experts! Did the hydrometer test lie, or is the cell really NG, in which case the AZ guy was wrong and I'll have a future problem again. (Really can't imagine the cell would be bad if the battery put out more than 12 volts under load.) Once again, thanks so much for your help! Frank Lets put it this way. As a battery charges it gives up some of it's liquid in the form of gas. After some period of time that liquid has to be replenished with distilled water. In simple terms.......... Your charging system has a regulator that turns on and off the charging current to the battery as needed to prevent over charging and excessive fluid loss. In one case, if the regulator goes bad the battery recessives constant charging current and you lose fluid more rapidly then you should. I've never had one fail the other way, no current to the battery that is, but I suppose it could happen. You've never had an alternator go bad on an engine? Neophyte. :) The next case is if you have a dead cell. These usually result from derbies from the battery plates falling to the bottom of the battery and shorting out a cell. While the battery may show the required voltage a dead cell will cause a regulator to constantly provide charging current to the battery and also result in a more rapid loss of fluid. I'd be more inclined to trust a hydrometer that showed five out of six cells as ok then the test done where ever. Now, if the hydrometer had shown all cells as dead I'd be looking for a new one. However, you can use the hydrometer to suck up and shoot the acid mix in to and out of the suspect cell to "mix" the acid water and see what happens. Another option is to put the battery back in and go out and bounce the boat of a few wakes then retest with the hydrometer. Good advice, but I'd be concerned about the levels of electrolyte. I've had it happen to me - the electrolyte mix was way low in one cell - improperly filled - and it didn't show up until a couple of years later. There isn't any reason for one cell to be low on electrolyte and the others ok - it just doesn't settle that way. All the best, Tom -------------- "What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup... is there a computer terminal in the day room of some looney bin somewhere?" Bilgeman - circa 2004 |
I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it
through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) You took a battery off the charger, hauled it to Auto Zone, and the kid behind the counter said it was OK because it showed over 12 volts? You should be at 12.6-13.2 with a fully charged battery. One very weak cell sounds like a distinct possibility. Most batteries "fail" when a single cell goes bad. That's why I now have batteries built from individual, replaceable cells. When one bites the dust, you replace the cell- not the whole works. |
Gould 0738 wrote:
That's why I now have built individual cells...from individual, replaceable cells. When one bites the dust, you replace the cell- not the whole works. Watch it...there's an idiot here who will think you are talking about al -Qaeda. -- "...vice president (Cheney), I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors. He voted against the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa. It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry's." - Senator John Edwards, 10/05/04 |
|
Really....well, who makes such a beastie (Tom asked because he is
always looking for new and interesting technology that he's never heard of before)? http://www.rollsbattery.com/ |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:15:46 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On 06 Oct 2004 23:08:20 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote: Really....well, who makes such a beastie (Tom asked because he is always looking for new and interesting technology that he's never heard of before)? http://www.rollsbattery.com/ How do they compare cost wise? Never mind - I just looked them up. You can buy a lot of batteries every couple of years for that kind of money. Sheesh. Later, Tom |
How do they compare cost wise?
Later, Tom Probably among the most cost effective batteries you can buy. My batteries came with a ten-year warranty, and the first seven are not pro-rated. If a cell takes a dive at six years, eleven months, they will replace it straight across. I get a lot of stuff at wholesale, sometimes even well below, through my business connections. I think I remember paying $600-700 for a pair of 8D's with two very nice new battery boxes. And that was 2 or three years ago, I think. You would probably need to shop pretty hard to get the same deal if you're buying retail- but it may be out there. This is a couple of times the price of a pair of "ordinary" batteries, but I can expect 2 and a half to three times the useful life. Remember that when you replace the cheapie battery you buy today, you will be paying the inflated price for the second, and maybe even the third battery needed to provide the same service as a top quality product. You also get the fun of wrestling with those heavy batteries, or paying somebody else to wrestle them, more often when you go with the BIC Disposable approach. There are times when the cheapie battery is appropriate. Need to replace a battery in a boat you're trying to sell? Few buyers would be willing to pay the additional difference represented between a new WalMart special and a new Rolls, for example. |
Never mind - I just looked them up.
You can buy a lot of batteries every couple of years for that kind of money. Sheesh. Every time you buy a new round of disposables they cost more than the last. Plus there's the time/labor/inconvenience for installation. Plus there is increased risk of battery failure prior to replacement when a battery is of lesser quality. It's always a good idea to buy the best battery you can afford, unless you're planning to sell the boat right away. Even then, you don't want to go too cheapie-cheapie. There have been plenty of boat sales shot down in flames because the *&*#! thing wouldn't start for a prospective buyer. |
|
|
Many thanks to you both, especially Mike G. for your
lengthy reply. The boat has a voltmeter, not an ammeter. In the old days, ammeters seemed more common and gave, in my opinion, a much better idea of the charging process. The voltage reads about 14V while the engine is running, which seems reasonable. What I do not know is whether the connections to the battery from the alternator were sound as corrosion readiliy develops during the season. I will keep the regulator in mind, particlularly since you say a faulty regulator can result in premature water loss due to overcharging. So we could have overcharging dry cells weak battery, or undercharging weak battery. As for the current condition of the battery, I agitated the water/ acid in the "bad" cell and the hydrometer read the same. I did this several times. I will try having the battery checked at a different place. But exactly how can a hydrometer lie???? The device is so simple I would think it would be infallible. Frank On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:53:27 GMT, frank1492 wrote: Earlier I had reported that I was in the process of recharging a battery that had been weak and I thought might have lost its water prematurely. After a trickle charge of 24 hours, a hydrometer test still seemed to reveal one weak cell (the five balls would rise to the top, then drop back down. On other cells, only one ball would drop.) The bad cell was not one of the originally dry ones. Very little "gurgling" action was shown in the cell while charging. I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) He said the bad hydrometer reading was probably due to imcompletely mixed acid and water. The battery has not been put back into service, but before I did, I thought I would ask the experts! Did the hydrometer test lie, or is the cell really NG, in which case the AZ guy was wrong and I'll have a future problem again. (Really can't imagine the cell would be bad if the battery put out more than 12 volts under load.) Once again, thanks so much for your help! Frank |
The battery was tested by the manager, and he said it was putting out
13V to be exact. On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:53:27 GMT, frank1492 wrote: Earlier I had reported that I was in the process of recharging a battery that had been weak and I thought might have lost its water prematurely. After a trickle charge of 24 hours, a hydrometer test still seemed to reveal one weak cell (the five balls would rise to the top, then drop back down. On other cells, only one ball would drop.) The bad cell was not one of the originally dry ones. Very little "gurgling" action was shown in the cell while charging. I had the battery tested at the local Autozone. He put it through a load test and proclaimed it to be in excellent condition. (The voltage was over 12 volts.) He said the bad hydrometer reading was probably due to imcompletely mixed acid and water. The battery has not been put back into service, but before I did, I thought I would ask the experts! Did the hydrometer test lie, or is the cell really NG, in which case the AZ guy was wrong and I'll have a future problem again. (Really can't imagine the cell would be bad if the battery put out more than 12 volts under load.) Once again, thanks so much for your help! Frank |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... Really....well, who makes such a beastie (Tom asked because he is always looking for new and interesting technology that he's never heard of before)? I see those a lot on very large batteries, often found on very large solar panel arrays. They are really, really big, and really expensive. I can't imagin replacing one at a time, however. Rod |
In article , frank1492
@worldnet.att.net says... I will try having the battery checked at a different place. But exactly how can a hydrometer lie???? The device is so simple I would think it would be infallible. Frank That's pretty much the reason why I am inclined to go with the hydrometer test. Good luck with it. On the up side, if you are living in a winter bearing climate as I am, pretty soon you won't have to worry about it for another bunch of months. -- MikeG Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
In article ,
says... There isn't any reason for one cell to be low on electrolyte and the others ok - it just doesn't settle that way. I concur but, and I may be disremebering it, one cell failed the hydrometer test but the low electrolyte was pretty much across the board. But the memory isn't always as reliable as it used to be. Take care -- MikeG Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
In article ,
says... There isn't any reason for one cell to be low on electrolyte and the others ok - it just doesn't settle that way. I concur but, and I may be disremebering it, one cell failed the hydrometer test but the low electrolyte was pretty much across the board. But the memory isn't always as reliable as it used to be. Take care -- MikeG Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
In article , frank1492
@worldnet.att.net says... I will try having the battery checked at a different place. But exactly how can a hydrometer lie???? The device is so simple I would think it would be infallible. Frank That's pretty much the reason why I am inclined to go with the hydrometer test. Good luck with it. On the up side, if you are living in a winter bearing climate as I am, pretty soon you won't have to worry about it for another bunch of months. -- MikeG Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:08:33 -0400, MikeG
wrote: In article , says... There isn't any reason for one cell to be low on electrolyte and the others ok - it just doesn't settle that way. I concur but, and I may be disremebering it, one cell failed the hydrometer test but the low electrolyte was pretty much across the board. But the memory isn't always as reliable as it used to be. Hmmmmmm - good point. Odd that one cell would do that though. Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:10 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com