yet, yo-yo, the fact is the statement was made that multi-grade oil tickens up
at ****very high temps*****
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDD this is a
reason to use single weight oil.

sorry, dood, but single weight oils thicken up under the very same very high
temps, so the arguement is specious (look up the word).

that is also true of single weight oils, but you knew that didn't you (you
being a service manager and all)?




The discussion that you interupted concerns mult-grade oils.

Bill Grannis
service manager

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 05:54:19 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I appreciate you thoughts and agree, it's just that I don;t have
definitive information on exactly what Mercury recommends for what
temperature.
Ps for some other posters, my engines are FWC.

I don't mean to be offensive here, but you have the basis for making a
solid decision on this.

Right from the Mercury web site:

What type of oil should I use? Can I use synthetic oil?

To help obtain optimum engine performance and to provide maximum
protection, we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40
Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and
40-weight oils for marine engines. If not available, a good grade,
straight weight, detergent automotive oil of correct viscosity, with
an API service rating of SH,CF/CF-2 may be used.

In those areas where Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40 Marine Engine
Oil or a recommended straight weight oil is not available, a
multi-viscosity 20W-40 or, as a second but less preferable choice,
20W-50, with API service ratings of SH,CF/CF-2 may be used.

IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other
than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality 20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic
oils, low quality oils or oils that contain solid additives are
specifically NOT recommended.

The table below is a guide to crankcase oil selection. The oil filter
should always be changed with the engine oil.

AIR TEMPERATURE
Oil Type

All Temperatures
Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40 Marine Engine Oil

Below 32? F (0? C)

SAE 20W

32-50? F (0-10? C)
SAE 30W

Above 50? F (10? C)
SAE 40W


This crankcase oil recommendation supersedes all previously printed
crankcase oil recommendations for MerCruiser gasoline engines. The
reason for this change is to include the newer engine oils that are
now available in the recommendation.

Older owner manuals, service manuals and other publications that are
not regularly updated will not be revised to show this latest engine
oil recommendation. Current owners manuals, service manuals and other
service publications that receive regular updates will receive this
revised recommendation the next time they are updated.

Hope that helps.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40
Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and
40-weight oils for marine .

What crap! If you blend 25 and 40 weight oil you don't get 25w-40 you get
an average viscosity of the two oils based on their ratio. MM's 25w40 is
formulated the same way everyone else's mulit-weights are. They start with
a base 25 and add polymers (assuming that it's dino oil).

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
yet, yo-yo, the fact is the statement was made that multi-grade oil
tickens up
at ****very high temps*****
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDD this is a
reason to use single weight oil.

sorry, dood, but single weight oils thicken up under the very same very
high
temps, so the arguement is specious (look up the word).


Guys... oil does not thicken when you heat it up.

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:06:26 GMT, "DanO" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40
Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and
40-weight oils for marine .

What crap! If you blend 25 and 40 weight oil you don't get 25w-40 you get
an average viscosity of the two oils based on their ratio. MM's 25w40 is
formulated the same way everyone else's mulit-weights are. They start with
a base 25 and add polymers (assuming that it's dino oil).

I will readily admit that I don't know a lot about this, but your
contention was my understanding - base twenty five and on from there.

However, sometimes you get marketing idiots who don't understand
anything other than the fact that they are very overpaid to do what
they do which is changing and redoing "concepts" and this may well be
one of those times. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:38:16 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:14:39 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:06:26 GMT, "DanO" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40
Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and
40-weight oils for marine .

What crap! If you blend 25 and 40 weight oil you don't get 25w-40 you get
an average viscosity of the two oils based on their ratio. MM's 25w40 is
formulated the same way everyone else's mulit-weights are. They start with
a base 25 and add polymers (assuming that it's dino oil).


They probably start with a viscosity near 25, but the point is that
25W is a relative number used to rate the "crankability" of an engine
at low temperatures. A base stock, somewhere between SAE40 and SAE25
is employed and pour point depressants are added to make the oil shear
at lower temperatures.... thus the engine spins easier.

At 100 Deg C 5W-40, 15W-40, and SAE 40 should be in the same kinematic
viscosity range. At cold temperatures.... the lower the W number the
easier the engine will crank... single weight will (obviously) fare
the worst.

Note that the amusing point is that this specification doesn't address
pumpability.... as one poster here steadfastly believes. For
pumpability, one should reference the Borderline Pumping
Temperature... which gives the minimum temperature at which you may
expect adequate flow through your engine.

You know - in between the other BS, you glean nuggets of wonderful
information.

Neat info.

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

junnie, you are babbling. wanna know what the men/women who build extreme
performance race engines use? It goes $10 to $15 a quart, and they are happy
to pay the price.

the word ------------ can --------------------- has no meaning in this
discussion. Probably the easiest way to determine the validity of any claim
that one oil is better suited for the marine environment than another is to ask
yourself if the major oil companies make different oils for the marine market
than they make for the markets using the same base engines. If there is a need
in marine engines that doesn't exist in the same engines used in the non-marine
market those guys know it and are more than happy to make a special oil and
sell it at a special price for a special profit. If large oil companies think
is is the same, you can bet one is the same.

this ain't rocket science. oil company engineers aren't stupid.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 2:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 03:07:23 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Marine Oil is boutique oil and ---------------------------- can
----------------------------------- have an additive package tailored
to the marine environment

why on Earth would anyone believe that? The world
-------------------------------- can ----------------------- turn in
figures
eights, but does it?

If an outside force acted upon the earth in a prescribed manner, the
earth *would* turn in figure eights. Given that there are many
different bottlers of oil (as opposed to one earth), do you feel that
it is equally impossible that oils contain different additives? That's
a stretch, even for you.

Any bottler of XYZ oil (marine, or not) has the option of putting any
sort of additives into the oil they deem fit. Since there are numerous
re-packagers of oil (as well as oil producing concerns), it would be
impossible to give *one* answer to this general question.

There certainly are additives that could enhance the performance of
oil destined for high operating RPM, high ambient humidity, relatively
low operating temperatures... things that automotive oils may well
perform, but haven't been tailored to excel.

Do you have any DATA to refute this?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

agreed.

we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40
Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and
40-weight oils for marine .

What crap! If you blend 25 and 40 weight oil you don't get 25w-40 you get
an average viscosity of the two oils based on their ratio. MM's 25w40 is
formulated the same way everyone else's mulit-weights are. They start with
a base 25 and add polymers (assuming that it's dino oil).

junnie, why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 5:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:14:39 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:06:26 GMT, "DanO" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...

we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40
Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and
40-weight oils for marine .

What crap! If you blend 25 and 40 weight oil you don't get 25w-40 you get
an average viscosity of the two oils based on their ratio. MM's 25w40 is
formulated the same way everyone else's mulit-weights are. They start with

a base 25 and add polymers (assuming that it's dino oil).


They probably start with a viscosity near 25, but the point is that
25W is a relative number used to rate the "crankability" of an engine
at low temperatures. A base stock, somewhere between SAE40 and SAE25
is employed and pour point depressants are added to make the oil shear
at lower temperatures.... thus the engine spins easier.

At 100 Deg C 5W-40, 15W-40, and SAE 40 should be in the same kinematic
viscosity range. At cold temperatures.... the lower the W number the
easier the engine will crank... single weight will (obviously) fare
the worst.

Note that the amusing point is that this specification doesn't address
pumpability.... as one poster here steadfastly believes. For
pumpability, one should reference the Borderline Pumping
Temperature... which gives the minimum temperature at which you may
expect adequate flow through your engine.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

DanO, it does at _very_ high temps, above 300F. That wasn't part of the
discussion (and needed have been part of the discussion) until some poster
incorrectly stated that only multi-grade oils did this. It is a probable with
all petro oils.

yet, yo-yo, the fact is the statement was made that multi-grade oil
tickens up
at ****very high temps*****
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDD this is a
reason to use single weight oil.

sorry, dood, but single weight oils thicken up under the very same very
high
temps, so the arguement is specious (look up the word).


Guys... oil does not thicken when you heat it up.

junnie, after reading your meandering below, I ask again:

why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 7:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 22:57:58 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

junnie, why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different
from
"pumpability"?


You sorta missed the point, there, dood.....

Viscosity is resistance to flow and, therefore, is related to
pumpability.

The point that you have missed is that 0W is not SAE 0(it is
undefined), 5W is not SAE 5, nor is 10W equivalent to SAE 10. "W"
numbers are NOT a viscosity reference. The Cold Crank Simulator (CCS)
and Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV) tests are used to determine the oil's
"W" grade and are, thus, not related to viscosity.

Sorry, but 15W-50 is not 15 weight in the winter and 50 weight in the
summer.... it never had a calendar.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

junnie, now listen closely. race engines are ALWAYS prelubed thoroughly before
engine startup, so therefore have no need for the rapid pumping of oil to
bearing needing pressure upon engine startup.

btw, race engine builders still use high price oil and still feel the money is
well-spent even if you still don't understand why.

junnie, why is it you -- with your decades of experience that finally qualified
you for an A&E license -- didn't know this?

junnie, you are babbling. wanna know what the men/women who build extreme
performance race engines use? It goes $10 to $15 a quart, and they are
happy
to pay the price.

Yep. and it is straight weight, too!

As you have posted no data,

junnie, I did post data. I posted that no major oil company makes a special
oil for the marine market (save 2-cycle oils, which are not part of this
discussion).

Can you produce *ANY* data that oils promoted by *ANY* of the marine
engine manufacturers is unaltered, rebottled automotive oil?

That oil grade level (SG, SH, SJ) on the bottle.

I ask yet again, though this time I removed the fluff you can concentrate:

junnie, after reading your meandering below, I ask again:

why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?


Please read for content....

Viscosity is resistance to flow and, therefore, is related to
pumpability.

The point that you have missed is that ... Mini-Rotary
------------------------- Viscometer ------------------------------- (MRV)
tests are used to determine the oil's
"W" grade and are, thus, not related to viscosity.

huh?

Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Sorry, but 15W-50 is not 15 weight in the winter and 50 weight in the
summer.... it never had a calendar.....

junnie, no one ever said that. what was said is the 15w-50 oil pumps like 15
weight oil upon engine startup at ordinary ambient temps (and thus pumps
pressure to all bearings needing pressure oil MUCH more quickly than 50 weight
oil would) AND the film strength equivilent to 50 weight oil at engine
operating temps (which 15 weight oil would not).

junnie, it appears you are not all that familar why multi-weight oils were
developed nor why engine builders accross the board reccomend their use.

junnie, you move all over the place trying not to look like a fumb duck. but
you always end up clearly showing everyone here that you really didn't
understand the question in the start and clearly don't understand the question
in the end. Are you as dumb as jeffies?

let me explain it to you in simple terms, junnie. use multi-grade oil in your
engine. It is the oil made by oil companies for your engine. It is the oil
the designers of your engine intend you use in your engine. your engine will
last longer, junnie if you use multi-grade oil in it.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 8:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:42:32 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

I ask yet again, though this time I removed the fluff you can concentrate:

junnie, after reading your meandering below, I ask again:

why is it you think "viscosity" is in any particular way different from
"pumpability"?


Please read for content....

Viscosity is resistance to flow and, therefore, is related to
pumpability.

The point that you have missed is that ... Mini-Rotary
------------------------- Viscometer ------------------------------- (MRV)
tests are used to determine the oil's
"W" grade and are, thus, not related to viscosity.

huh?


Jax,

I don't know what to tell you, here. You've either misinterpreted the
test or haven't read the specification. 10W is NOT, I repeat, NOT a 10
weight oil. It is not a relationship of viscosity vs pumpability. It
is merely shear strength.

The only thing I can do is refer you to ASTM D-2602 and/or D-5293, for
THAT is the definition of what xxW means with respect to oil
specification.

One point I might be able to guide you on is that multi-vis oil is, by
definition, Non-Newtonian....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

junnie, you are more stupid than jeffies. At least he has a wife to keep from
acting like you.

use multi-grade oil, junnie. that is what the oil companies produce for your
engine, that is what the designers of your engine intended you use.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/9/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:47:03 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Sorry, but 15W-50 is not 15 weight in the winter and 50 weight in the
summer.... it never had a calendar.....

junnie, no one ever said that. what was said is the 15w-50 oil pumps like
15
weight oil upon engine startup at ordinary ambient temps

Not true. 15W does not equate with SAE 15.

(and thus pumps
pressure to all bearings needing pressure oil MUCH more quickly than 50
weight
oil would)

Most probably.... depending on temperature. (Be reasonable... don't
always assume a dry bearing at startup. Thin oil (multi-vis)will
drain from bearings, whereas thick oil will not.)

AND the film strength equivilent to 50 weight oil at engine
operating temps (which 15 weight oil would not).


Unlikely. Again, dependent upon temperature. 10W-50 and SAE 50
should offer the same protection at 100 degrees C(per ASTM spec.)... I
don't have any data to support your opinion at temperatures divergent
from the ASTM spec... do you?

junnie, it appears you are not all that familar why multi-weight oils were
developed nor why engine builders accross the board reccomend their use.


Jax, I know exactly why they were developed... I also know that not
ALL engine builders recommend their use (accross the board )(sic)....

Are there any disadvantages in using multi-vis oils? Warning, think
before you post... I have the answer and (as usual) supporting data...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Yeah, ok, this has degenerated to the point that it usually does.

junnie, it always gets to the same point. namely, you have no understanding
the concepts and minimal familiarity with the words of the google'd overview.

Yeah, ok,

junnie, you are more stupid than jeffies. At least he has a wife to keep
from
acting like you.

use multi-grade oil, junnie. that is what the oil companies produce for
your
engine, that is what the designers of your engine intended you use.

Yeah, ok, this has degenerated to the point that it usually does.
Whatever. Have it your way... dood. Go for it.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

I'd listen and go 40.... particularly if it's got some hours on it.

-W (runs 20/50 in the '68 Vette with a zillion miles)

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...

I have Mercruiser 5.7's 1989 and boat on Lake Erie near Cleveland.
My mechanic recommends straight 30wt oil and that's been fine, today he
said a new bulletin came out from Mercury and it was something like 30
wt up to 60 degrees F and 40 wt for over 60 degrees F.

Now my mechanic says to use straight 40 weight.

What do you think?

so, which "additives" make oil work in an engine used to drive a propeller are
not in oil in an engine used to drive a driveshaft?

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 10/11/2004 8:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:39:00 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Can you produce *ANY* data that oils promoted by *ANY* of the marine
engine manufacturers is unaltered, rebottled automotive oil?


That is not an answer to the question posed.

That oil grade level (SG, SH, SJ) on the bottle.

Incorrect.

SG and SH classifications are obsolete. SJ is for engines prior to
2001 and SL is for all gasoline and propane engines (using detergent
oil). SL is current for gasoline engines... both straight weight and
multi-vis (dino and synthetic).

The API "S" and "C" classifications merely address a minimum
performance level. Oil can contain *ANY* additives, meet a minimum
performance, and receive the SJ or SL classification. Thus, any sort
of additive can be added to a SL oil and if it doesn't do anything to
reduce the ability of the oil's ability to reach the spec... it is
still a legal SL oil.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

laugh with us. tell us which major oil companies produce oil specifically for
use in 4-cycle gas engines used in a marine environment, and how that oil
differs from the same company's oil produced for the same engines used in say
highway driving.

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 10/11/2004 8:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:36:33 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

As you have posted no data,

junnie, I did post data. I posted that no major oil company makes a special
oil for the marine market (save 2-cycle oils, which are not part of this
discussion).

That statement is so laughably and obviously wrong that it doesn't
merit a reply.


--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

I did address that very issue the very instant you brought it up. I shall
repeat it, junnie, because you were obviously too stew ped from eating dinner
to understand. race engines are pre-lubed before startup, therefore race
engines have full oil galleys before ignition, therefore gain no advantage from
multi-grade oils.

go stand in the corner, junnie.

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 10/11/2004 9:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 09 Oct 2004 23:34:23 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


btw, race engine builders still use high price oil and still feel the money
is
well-spent even if you still don't understand why.


Why don't you address the issue. Why do they chose a single weight oil
over multi-viscosity oil?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 12 Oct 2004 01:43:27 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


I did address that very issue the very instant you brought it up. I shall
repeat it, junnie, because you were obviously too stew ped from eating dinner
to understand. race engines are pre-lubed before startup, therefore race
engines have full oil galleys before ignition, therefore gain no advantage from
multi-grade oils.



So then you admit that single viscosity oils are superior to multi-vis
oils, with the exception of pre-lubing?



The manufacturer of the twin cylinder engine on my small tractor
recommends straight 30-weight oil, as does the manufacturer of the
engine on my lawnmower. Gosh...you'd think they'd insist on multi-vis
oil...

So then you admit that single viscosity oils are superior

superior is incorrect.

to multi-vis
oils, with the exception of pre-lubing?

junnie, you are one slow learner. pre-lubing is the reason multi-grade oils
were developed six decades ago, the reason multi-grade oils are by far the oil
of choice, the reason virtually all engine manufacturers recommend multi-grade
oils going on a quarter century.

JAXAshby wrote:
So then you admit that single viscosity oils are superior


superior is incorrect.


to multi-vis
oils, with the exception of pre-lubing?


junnie, you are one slow learner. pre-lubing is the reason multi-grade oils
were developed six decades ago, the reason multi-grade oils are by far the oil
of choice, the reason virtually all engine manufacturers recommend multi-grade
oils going on a quarter century.



Wrong.

never let it be suspected that junnie has a coherant thought in his head.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/11/2004 10:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 01:41:01 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

laugh with us. tell us which major oil companies produce oil specifically
for
use in 4-cycle gas engines used in a marine environment, and how that oil
differs from the same company's oil produced for the same engines used in
say
highway driving.


If you have a car engine in your sunfish or is it Sunfish..... ( oh,
gawd, that's funny), my sympathies. Please don't tell the USCG..... I
think they'd give you a pass on that all chain rode, but that auto
engine? .... oh, that'd cost you....

Haven't you figured, by now, that if anybody cares about the gist of
this thread they've already googled the result and decided that you
are clueless?
Sorry, dood....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

so, ----------- which -------------------- major oil companies produce a
special "marine" grade oil?

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/11/2004 10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 01:38:22 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

so, which "additives" make oil work in an engine used to drive a propeller
are
not in oil in an engine used to drive a driveshaft?

Oh, mygawd, that is the first intelligent post you've made!!!

There may really be *some* hope!

Think carefully, now, auto vs boat.......

RPM?
Persistent Ambient Humidity?
Running Temperatures?
Ambient Temperatures?
Frequency of Use?
Etc.?

Think about it....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

thank you, hoary, for your informative post.

Harry Krause
Date: 10/11/2004 10:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:
So then you admit that single viscosity oils are superior


superior is incorrect.


to multi-vis
oils, with the exception of pre-lubing?


junnie, you are one slow learner. pre-lubing is the reason multi-grade
oils
were developed six decades ago, the reason multi-grade oils are by far the
oil
of choice, the reason virtually all engine manufacturers recommend
multi-grade
oils going on a quarter century.



Wrong.

The thing you are all ignoring is a car may start up at 0f or colder and they
will run a 210f thermostst, with the oil running hotter than that. In a boat
the thermostat is almost 100 degrees cooler (typically 120f on a 4s outboard
and I doubt most folks will start it at much under 65 or 70f.)
That operating range for the oil is a small fraction of what it is in a car.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On 09 Oct 2004 23:34:23 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


btw, race engine builders still use high price oil and still feel the
money is
well-spent even if you still don't understand why.


Why don't you address the issue. Why do they chose a single weight oil
over multi-viscosity oil?


My experience with race car crews (including the guys that build the
engines) is that they do a LOT of things based on folk lore and "that's just
the way it's done". Don't try looking for a lot of logic from racers, they
are more into superstition than science.

That said, racing presents an entirely different environment for the oil
than recreational or regular automotive. They aren't likely to get 3000
miles on an engine, so they aren't likely to care what the long term
durability of the oil is. What they do care about is how the oil reacts in
high RPM situations. A "racing" oil is formulated to reduce foaming, which
can be a critical issue on a high performance engine. You don't want to run
that in your car or boat, however, unless you intend to change your oil on a
weekly basis.

Rod

manufacturers of engine oil products all use sae specifications. this
is to mainly present a level playing field. when making, buying,
selling, choosing an oil product.
here is a website that explains how/why, buy the material, interesting
read.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J2227_200204

here is a website that the first is referring to "manufacturers specs"
omg its a marine company.

http://accessorycatalogue.penta.volvo.se/catalogue.asp

please dont let jax lead you through a conversation. his replies are
vitriolic and misleading.







(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
so, ----------- which -------------------- major oil companies produce a
special "marine" grade oil?

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/11/2004 10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 01:38:22 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

so, which "additives" make oil work in an engine used to drive a propeller
are
not in oil in an engine used to drive a driveshaft?

Oh, mygawd, that is the first intelligent post you've made!!!

There may really be *some* hope!

Think carefully, now, auto vs boat.......

RPM?
Persistent Ambient Humidity?
Running Temperatures?
Ambient Temperatures?
Frequency of Use?
Etc.?

Think about it....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 12 Oct 2004 03:15:54 GMT, (Greg) wrote:


The thing you are all ignoring is a car may start up at 0f or colder and they
will run a 210f thermostst, with the oil running hotter than that. In a boat
the thermostat is almost 100 degrees cooler (typically 120f on a 4s outboard
and I doubt most folks will start it at much under 65 or 70f.)
That operating range for the oil is a small fraction of what it is in a car.


No, actually that was mentioned.... but Jax, of course, berated the
poster for mentioning it...




Frankly, if I espied Jax with tools in his and anywhere near a boat of
mine, I'd reach for the shotgun.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 12 Oct 2004 00:24:58 -0700, (BenC) wrote:


manufacturers of engine oil products all use sae specifications. this
is to mainly present a level playing field. when making, buying,
selling, choosing an oil product.
here is a website that explains how/why, buy the material, interesting
read.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J2227_200204

here is a website that the first is referring to "manufacturers specs"
omg its a marine company.

http://accessorycatalogue.penta.volvo.se/catalogue.asp

please dont let jax lead you through a conversation. his replies are
vitriolic and misleading.


Don't I know. That is essentially why I told him to "look it up."
...which he won't, of course. He'll just post some oblique response
hoping "here we go again."

Funny thing is, it is my election whether we go or not... and that
drives him nuts....



When you decide not to, he'll declare victory. It's a characteristic...

JAXAshby wrote:
junnie, anyone who attempts rational discourse with you sooner or later
understands that if they shine a flashlight in your eyes they would see the
back of your skull. a vacuum has no characteristic called "rational".




On the scale of rationality, as it pertains to things mechanical, if 10
were perfect and 0 were you, Gene would be at the 8 mark. I'd be at the
4 mark.

keep up, Forrest.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/11/2004 11:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 02:44:08 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

So then you admit that single viscosity oils are superior

superior is incorrect.

to multi-vis
oils, with the exception of pre-lubing?

junnie, you are one slow learner. pre-lubing is the reason multi-grade oils
were developed six decades ago, the reason multi-grade oils are by far the
oil
of choice, the reason virtually all engine manufacturers recommend
multi-grade
oils going on a quarter century.


Ok, let's try this again.... *WHY* do racers elect to spend extra
money on single viscosity oils when multi-vis oils could be had much
cheaper??? Is there something you are neglecting to tell us???

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

the engine under discussion was a mercruiser.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/12/2004 7:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 03:15:54 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

The thing you are all ignoring is a car may start up at 0f or colder and
they
will run a 210f thermostst, with the oil running hotter than that. In a boat
the thermostat is almost 100 degrees cooler (typically 120f on a 4s outboard
and I doubt most folks will start it at much under 65 or 70f.)
That operating range for the oil is a small fraction of what it is in a car.

No, actually that was mentioned.... but Jax, of course, berated the
poster for mentioning it...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

so,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------- which
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- one?


Gene Kearns
Date: 10/11/2004 11:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 02:49:25 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

so, ----------- which -------------------- major oil companies produce a
special "marine" grade oil?

Try Google. You *might* learn something. Then again....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide