Police Marine Units
 

"CCred68046" wrote in message
...
Patrol the boat ramps and their usage. The rules here are that the tow
vehicles make the line and it never fails that someone in a boat will just
pull
up to the ramp and think they can sit there while they go get their
vehicle...
Nothing like a good fight at a busy ramp.

I've seen it at our ramp occasionally as well, I'll try to keep an eye on
that. Thanks.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
swatcop,
Just can't beat common sense. To Protect and to Serve is what's it's
all
about. You sound like a good cop to me.
Paul

Thanks, Paul. I'm a firm believer in good ol' common sense.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:4uNCb.533010$HS4.4073001@attbi_s01...

"swatcop" wrote in message news:INMCb.12534

Thanks for the tip on the narrow areas, although I
would have thought that to be common sense. Maybe it's different in your
area.

It's different here. We have a patch of river 8 miles long and 200 - 300
feet wide. And often the Marine Patroll doods troll right up the middle,
particularly the newer younger guys. I mean, it is "instinct" to drive up
the middle, but if you see a skiier coming it's *nice* to pull aside, as
opposed to watching to see if he'll slow down for you.

And as a question on the safety checks, other than the marinas in my
town, most people use a public boat ramp area. Would you be offended if
the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in
line
to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that
way.

*I* wouldn't be offended at the ramp, no. I tend to be be a comedian about
it and show him the life-preservers, throwables, ski-vests, fire
extinguisher, flares, whistle, horn, anchor, sunscreen, sunglasses, TCW-3,
12 soda, 6 beer, 1 energy drink, 1 milk, 1 orange juice, 1 orange, 2
apple
pies, 1 canned ravioli, 1 Spaghetti-O's Etc etc...

(yanno - we might think it's funny - until the day the Marine Patroll
finds
a subject in hypoglycemic shock and comes screaming after my boat to get
my
goodies - *then* he'll be glad I showed him the Hostess Apple Pies!)

Don't laugh - I actually make notes about those sort of things. I know who
to go in town for various special needs. You may be an asset one day by your
preparedness.


But anyway, a lot of people tend to view a "safety check" like an "MV
stop" - they wanna know what they did to draw your attention in the first
place. shrug

Speaking of the ramp, I don't know how enforcable it is (perhaps via
loitering laws hehe) but some of the idiots that tie up / slow down the
ramps need a ticket for *something* LOL.

I've seen this mentioned a few times. I will keep an eye on inconsiderate
people at the ramp.


-W

PS: Look at bright side - it's *got* to be a lot more fun than S.W.A.T.
work
is!!

Um, NOT!!! I'm much more at home in my "black pajamas" with my AR-15.

Just still be carefull out there. Binoculars are your friend. If you run
into drug runners on a boat, it's way too easy to just shoot the cop and
sink the evidence. Remember *they* already know what's up as your
approaching them.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Luckily in my area the Fish & Wildlife
commission and the local Sheriff's marine boat are usually in the water. We
make it a habit to stay in touch with one another while we're out there.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:2GNCb.533063$HS4.4073767@attbi_s01...
MOST importantly. Come back HERE often to post the best "idiot" stories.
!!!

That's a deal, as long as you guys keep steering me in the right direction.


I'll give you the best one I ever heard:

A friend of mine is a State Trooper. One night he was gassing up his
vehicle at one of the little "Statie stops" they have here for the
Troopers
to gas up at. So while he's filling his (unmarked) car, the subject pulls
up to the pumps, drunk as a skunk, and when the Officer comes over to the
subjects window to see what he possibly could want - he slurrs: "Fill her
up please".

A moment of silence follows while the officer looks at the subject ,
meanwhile the subject is looking the officer up and down, and becomes
dimly
aware of the real situation.

Subject rolls down his window - stucks out both hands - and says "OK you
got
me - that was pretty clever"

Poor cop said he had a hard time stopping laughing long enough to ask the
guy for his liscence and reg so he could start the OUI arrest.. LOL.

"So how'd you get this one?"

"He just kinda drove up and surrendered."

-W

That about sums up the quotation after my signature (see below).
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Rick" wrote in message
ink.net...
Clams Canino wrote:

This might parrot what others said, but in my opinon the more you can
hound
wreckless jet-ski's the better. hehe And then of course wreckless
boaters
in general.

I think the "wreckless" ones should be left alone and go after those
with many wrecks to their credit.

Rick

I'm sure the ones with wrecks to their credit will put themselves into the
spotlight on a regular basis and will be dealt with accordingly. Thanks for
your input, Rick.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:50:22 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
Just F.Y.I., my personal definition of a safety inspection is not to be a
jerk and have a citation writing contest. I was thinking more along the
lines of pointing out to the boaters what equipment is old or missing,
trying to help out, not be an ass with a ticket book.

================================================== ====

Your attitude is commendable but your role is slightly confused. Your
role as an armed, badge wearing law officer is to enforce the law (in
a hopefully reasonable manner), not to offer helpful suggestions to
people who are not even on the water yet. To me that is overly
intrusive, and comparable to stopping someone who is backing out of
the driveway for a quick safety check of their car.

Police Marine Units
 

I second this notion. I see far more ignorance and inconsiderate behavior
(and, therefore, angry people) at the launch ramp than on the water. Worse
at the end of the day when many folks have had a few Coors and are already
****ed about their empty live wells.
Just my $0.02 worth.

"swatcop" wrote in message
...



"CCred68046" wrote in message
...
Patrol the boat ramps and their usage. The rules here are that the tow
vehicles make the line and it never fails that someone in a boat will just
pull
up to the ramp and think they can sit there while they go get their
vehicle...
Nothing like a good fight at a busy ramp.

I've seen it at our ramp occasionally as well, I'll try to keep an eye on
that. Thanks.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

.... Or, the knuckleheads who
need help docking on a windy day, and when they toss you their line, it's
always 2 feet shorter than the distance from the boat to the dock. Wouldn't
want to buy a 15 ft rope when a 3 footer will work just as well. Sort of.
:-)

Usually this sort of stupidity is self punishing. But the problem is that the
stupid don't learn better no matter how many times it happens.

DSK

Police Marine Units
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:50:22 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
Just F.Y.I., my personal definition of a safety inspection is not to be a
jerk and have a citation writing contest. I was thinking more along the
lines of pointing out to the boaters what equipment is old or missing,
trying to help out, not be an ass with a ticket book.

================================================== ====

Your attitude is commendable but your role is slightly confused. Your
role as an armed, badge wearing law officer is to enforce the law (in
a hopefully reasonable manner), not to offer helpful suggestions to
people who are not even on the water yet. To me that is overly
intrusive, and comparable to stopping someone who is backing out of
the driveway for a quick safety check of their car.


Ah - I see what you're saying now. Your analogy made a lot of sense to me.
Point well taken, thanks.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Eric H" wrote in message
om...
I second this notion. I see far more ignorance and inconsiderate behavior
(and, therefore, angry people) at the launch ramp than on the water. Worse
at the end of the day when many folks have had a few Coors and are already
****ed about their empty live wells.
Just my $0.02 worth.

A point well taken - it seems that the two biggest "bitches" so far are
jetskis and morons at the boat ramp. Thank you for your input.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Jack Meholf wrote:

I wonder how many deer he killed when he developed that land and increased
man's encroachment upon the deer's native habitat.

So, how much did you say you got for that wakeboard skiboat?

This is the third time you posted this question which has nothing to do
with the discussion which was your hypocrisy in speaking out of on side
of your mouth about of preserving land and wildlife, while out of the
other side about your [supposed] real estate development venture.

One can only conclude that you truly are mentally ill exhibiting
flight-of-idea symptoms.

Have your junior live-in aide contact the doctor immediately. Things are
getting worse.

-- Charlie


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Police Marine Units
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:50:22 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
Just F.Y.I., my personal definition of a safety inspection is not to be a
jerk and have a citation writing contest. I was thinking more along the
lines of pointing out to the boaters what equipment is old or missing,
trying to help out, not be an ass with a ticket book.

================================================== ====

Your attitude is commendable but your role is slightly confused. Your
role as an armed, badge wearing law officer is to enforce the law (in
a hopefully reasonable manner), not to offer helpful suggestions to
people who are not even on the water yet. To me that is overly
intrusive, and comparable to stopping someone who is backing out of
the driveway for a quick safety check of their car.


I can see your point, but on the other hand (and there's always another
hand), the police *do* sometimes slow down traffic to peek in cars for seat
belt compliance. There are occasional complaints about this, but mostly it
goes by without much whining.

(Unbelievably, they actually catch people without seat belts - people who
had a full minute to put them on while they waited their turn to be peeked
at).

Police Marine Units
 

"swatcop" wrote in message
...


I don't think that a fistfull of citations is the answer.....

Your supervisors might think citations are the answer, however. Of course,
there are never "quotas", per se. A friend with Nassau County Highway Patrol
(Long Island) use to respond to the quota question with "Hell no....there's
no quota. We can write as many as we want". (Huh???)

Police Marine Units
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:42:59 +0000, Wayne.B wrote:

I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my hot
buttons:

Really tough noise enforcement.

As I get older, I'm surprised at how intrusive I find loud noises. Things
that never used to bother me are now an annoyance, loud boats,
un-muffled Harleys, or, my personal favorite, the Sunday mower
marathon.

I can sort of put up with the mowers, but it's the leaf blowers that get to
me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide and 30
feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down 17 blades
of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom off our
driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.

Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

You'd really love me. I don't own a gas blower, so I use the tractor to
blow the grass clippings that find their way on the driveway. But at a
length of over 50 feet and wide enough to do a U-turn in, not including
the drive which goes around back to the "big" garage, it's a bit of
asphalt to clear.

"there isn't a job that can't be made better with power tools"

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

swatcop wrote:

Looking for a little bit of direction here. I've been recently assigned to
my department's Marine Unit. I've been a cop for 15 years. I lived in NJ at
the shore around boats most of my life, but never owned one. I rarely even
went out on boats except for fishing or waterskiing. I moved to Florida in
late 2000, and I'm still working as a cop (just in a nicer place). As a
result of some administrative changes in my department, I was assigned to
the Marine Unit. I've completed the necessary training and such, but one
thing is lacking: experience. I'll try to get to the point - I'm open for
comments and opinions. I know what the law says, and I know what my job is,
but I try to use more common sense than what the law may actually say in
black & white. What do you (as boaters) feel the most important issues are
for the Police to deal with on the water? Would you like to see more O.U.I.
enforcement? More vessel stops for no wake zone infractions? More safety
inspections? More after dark patrols of inlets, channels, and harbor areas?
You tell me. I'm asking for your honest opinions here. As a rule I use more
common sense than anything on the job. I treat people fairly, and as a
result I rarely ever have to appear in court. I would like to do the same on
the water. Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.


My Advice; Know the law, and how it applies to the water. If someone is
clearly violating the law, then do what is necessary.

Do not become entangled in the politics of opinion which divides the
various boating groups.

Remember what's one man's annoyance is another's extreme pleasure.
Jetski's are a common example of what is considered annoying by many
people. But while people complain about jetskis remaining in the same
general area, it is generally not unlawful for them to do so, despite
how it makes some other people feel. Same thing goes for fishermen who
complain about the wakes of skiboats and other transients. There should
be no expectation of glass smooth water when there are boats in the
area, and everyone has to be cognizant of the risks, and deal with the
conditions accordingly. Don't expect other people to know exactly what
everyone else is doing. There is a fine line between negligent operation
and a normal day on the water, when there are a bunch of boats all
plying the same waterway, looking for different pleasures.

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:4uNCb.533010$HS4.4073001@attbi_s01...


Speaking of the ramp, I don't know how enforcable it is (perhaps via
loitering laws hehe) but some of the idiots that tie up / slow down the
ramps need a ticket for *something* LOL.


I know what you mean. There's a whole list of behaviors which fall into the
category of "general lack of consideration", like warming up your 17 year
old Chevy Blazer for 20 minutes right outside your neighbor's open window,
because you think them darn EPA hippies are wrong about fumes being bad for
you.

At one of our local ramps, there's some sort of unofficial thing that goes
on. Officially, they have nubile babes collecting the ramp fee. And
officially, boaters are "advised" by 2-3 old guys who look like they spent
the last 6 months in a life raft. Mostly, they spend their time reminding
the illiterate that ramps are designated for "in" or "out" depending on
traffic, and that the "IN" and "OUT" signs mean (quizzically) "In" or "Out".
UNofficially, these old guys are usually accompanied by equally ancient
buddies who hang around helping kids with bait, or showing newbies how to
operate a cleat. You can sort of tell who's who by the presence or absence
of polo shirts with the township's emblem. ANYWAY....this crew of life raft
veterans does a good job of mildly embarrassing morons at the ramp. Imagine
Don Rickles, toned down by 50%.

My first time at the ramp, this young woman backs her PWC into the water and
ties it up right at the bottom of the ramp. Why move it down to the end so
someone else could launch while you park, especially since there were 30
cars waiting. She parks her car and sits in it for about 5 minutes doing
something to her hair. Meanwhile, nobody can move. One of the old guys yells
to her "Are you gonna get a manicure too, 'cause there are people waiting
but I could see if they'll come back tomorrow". Needless to say, she ended
her beauty parlor routine instantly. You can't argue with a 100 year old man
who obviously knows what he's talking about. :-) There was much laughter
from the waiting cars.

Other nonsense: Signs all over the parking area say "Boaters Only - Vehicles
Without Trailers Will Be Ticketed". All day long, people come up to the
booth and ask the attendant "Do ya think I'll really get a ticket? I don't
have a trailer". Sometimes they approach the cop who's writing tickets and
ask if they can just park for a couple of hours without getting a ticket.
:-)

I really want to make a movie about this stuff. I need a catchy title. The
dumbest people will be featured in the movie without their permission.
Especially the monkeys who, on a really busy afternoon, let their 4 kids run
up and down the dock with fishing poles while other boaters are scrambling
to get in or out and make way for the next person. Or, the knuckleheads who
need help docking on a windy day, and when they toss you their line, it's
always 2 feet shorter than the distance from the boat to the dock. Wouldn't
want to buy a 15 ft rope when a 3 footer will work just as well. Sort of.
:-)


These, and other reasons are why I've started boating on weekdays.....

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

Clams Canino wrote:

Hi!

This might parrot what others said, but in my opinon the more you can hound
wreckless jet-ski's the better.

Why? Unless they are breaking a definite law, they have the same right
to be on the water as anyone else, regardless of how they may "annoy"
someone.



hehe And then of course wreckless boaters
in general.

OUI is important too, but use your head. A couple guys out in a rowboat with
a 5hp Jonnyrude, fishing, with a 12 pack in the cooler ain't the real big
problem, it's the speedboats with intoxicated operators that think they're
Mario Andretti. LOL.

If the guy in the rowboat with the 5HP engine puts in in a large bay
like the Chesapeake, which is home to megayachts, commercial ships, and
wind swept chop, then his judgement is impared.

Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.



Equipment checks are a good way to "bust balls" of someone you stopped for
operation. But to stop people *just* to do equipment checks is annoying as
all hell. There's enough strange operatoin out there to keep you busy.

Busting "balls" is one way to kindle resentment.


And as a personal favor. grin Older couples often don't have an extra
person to "spot" for the skiier.Yes, I know the law (in most states)
requires a spotter, but it's often just me and my wife. So I put a rearview
mirror on the boat and call the German shepard my spotter. A warning will do
just fine - as we're at least *trying* to get it right with the mirror.
Sometimes you just can't find a spotter without kidnapping someone - a worse
crime. Don't make me have to get a blow up doll.grin

My daughter is now becoming old enough to function as a spotter. So this
summer should see a resumption in my skiing and tubing activities. That
is, if the muscles in my back and legs can take it.....

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

You'd really love me. I don't own a gas blower, so I use the tractor to
blow the grass clippings that find their way on the driveway. But at a
length of over 50 feet and wide enough to do a U-turn in, not including
the drive which goes around back to the "big" garage, it's a bit of
asphalt to clear.

I'm not the least bit surprised.

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message

Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.

I dissagree. Alcohol slows reaction time. The faster the boat, the more that
reaction time comes into play. My boat is plenty fast, and you won't find
me out on a busy lake with any measurable B.A.C.

The guy with the duel 454's and duel martini's scares me a *lot* more than
the dood with a rowboat and duel six-packs. My cousin was *killed* when a
hotboat overtook him from the rear and drove up over his stern. It's a fact
of math that more HP plus more alcohol = more risk. :)

(Now if I'm up at Charlies for the weekend, we might go out for a late night
"booze cruise" where we TROLL out to the middle of the lake, in sight of
camp, turn up the CD player and do some pretty serious drinking and then
TROLL back to the dock at 3am. Legal - no, but there's no boat traffic (or
Marine patroll) at 3am. The only thing that ever scared us was the sound of
a boat approaching fast at WOT at 2am, I looked at Charlie and said "if he's
as drunk as we are - that ******* could plow right into us" We started
blinking our lights and stuff to make sure we were seen. )

I don't have a beef with speedboats - I *like* hotboats and am a paid member
over at the Scream & Fly boards. I don't like boats going fast with
impaired operators. And I don't feel threatened by a little rowboat with a
trolling motor. I don't feel real threatened by those "party barges" either,
though some of them are starting to get way too much HP on the back.

I don't fish much, but all I'm saying is that (in my opinion) people that
troll, fish, and drink aren't the real problem out there - as compared to
people that drink and go fast - or drink and pull rope-toys.

If I see a guy in a rowboat with a pole and a beer I'd be likely to go by
and say "catch anything much today?" If I see a speedboat with an operator
with a beer I'd be likely to say "so how many beers you had today?" it's
called *discretion*.

-W

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
Clams Canino wrote:

Hi!

This might parrot what others said, but in my opinon the more you can
hound
wreckless jet-ski's the better.

Why? Unless they are breaking a definite law, they have the same right
to be on the water as anyone else, regardless of how they may "annoy"
someone.

Sometimes they have miles of water to play in, but they congregate around
anchored boats whose owners simply want a little peace and quiet. They may
not be breaking a law by doing that, but it's absolutely obnoxious. There's
nothing wrong with a cop teaching them some manners, since their parents
obviously forgot. You know this. Stop baiting the assembled audience.


If the guy in the rowboat with the 5HP engine puts in in a large bay
like the Chesapeake, which is home to megayachts, commercial ships, and
wind swept chop, then his judgement is impared.

If the guy in the small boat plants himself near a channel, he's made a
choice. If he plants himself miles from a channel and some asshole in a 50
ft boat chooses to come within 200 ft and throw an enormous wake, it's
obnoxious. Again, there's nothing wrong with a cop pulling him over for a
little chat. You know this. Stop baiting the assembled audience.


Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.

Like jetski operators, speedboats sometimes they have miles of water to play
in, but they congregate around anchored boats whose owners simply want a
little peace and quiet. They may not be breaking a law by doing that, but
it's absolutely obnoxious. Some people go boating for the quiet. Some people
go boating for the excitement. They have to allow for each other. You know
this. Stop baiting the assembled audience.

It's interesting, isn't it? This is such a simple thing that I can use most
of the same words to help you in all 3 cases.

Police Marine Units
 

Clams Canino wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message

Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.

I dissagree. Alcohol slows reaction time. The faster the boat, the more that
reaction time comes into play. My boat is plenty fast, and you won't find
me out on a busy lake with any measurable B.A.C.

Like I said, BUI is a no-brainer. But why tie BUI operators with
speedboats? You are coming off like you're stereotyping the typical
performance boater. I find that somewhat offensive. I don't drink
alchohol AT ALL when I boat.


The guy with the duel 454's and duel martini's scares me a *lot* more than
the dood with a rowboat and duel six-packs. My cousin was *killed* when a
hotboat overtook him from the rear and drove up over his stern. It's a fact
of math that more HP plus more alcohol = more risk. :)

Speed and alchohol don't mix, but neither are they surgically attached
at the hip.

I don't fish much, but all I'm saying is that (in my opinion) people that
troll, fish, and drink aren't the real problem out there - as compared to
people that drink and go fast - or drink and pull rope-toys.

It's all a matter of perspective. I don't excuse someone because their
potential for injury is less, as they recklessly disregard the law. In
reality, you're probably right, but it's no excuse to form a bias
against a particular segment of the boating sport.


If I see a guy in a rowboat with a pole and a beer I'd be likely to go by
and say "catch anything much today?" If I see a speedboat with an operator
with a beer I'd be likely to say "so how many beers you had today?" it's
called *discretion*.

In some circles that might be considered "profiling".

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


Like I said, BUI is a no-brainer. But why tie BUI operators with
speedboats? You are coming off like you're stereotyping the typical
performance boater. I find that somewhat offensive.

I'm surprised. You, Dave "I wish I was a Vulcan" Hall should see the logic
here. If a speedboater's a mile away and not breaking any rules about speed,
wake or channel, nobody cares and nobody notices. If he's drunk and hits a
wave the wrong way, flipping the boat and killing everyone onboard, so what?

But, here's a REAL LIFE SCENARIO that I see just about every time I take my
boat out: There are a few areas where boats commonly anchor, at least a mile
or two from the channel, and usually behind islands. Very fast boats, which
have the whole world to play in, come flying past these groups of boats,
sometimes as close as 100', and the same boats sometimes do it repeatedly,
as if they just want to be seen.

Now, let's pretend that these boats made absolutely no wake, and that there
was no speed limit in the area. So, they're breaking no laws. But: A
mechanical or operator failure at high speeds could cause quite a disaster
if that boat is too close to other boats. Therefore (and here comes the
logic, Dave), it is perfectly reasonable to assume that someone doing this
is exercising very poor judgement, and might very well be drunk. Whether
they're breaking any laws or not, they deserve a visit from the authorities.

In a motor vehicle, vague offenses are routinely put in the "reckless
driving" category. It's not a problem. You know that.

Police Marine Units
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:12:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:47:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"noah" wrote in message
.. .

I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman. :o)


Thank heaven for judges who understand the difference between the essence
of
the law and the letter of the law (unlike the sad troopers who are told
to
sit on the thruway all day and look only for speeders - never mind the
tailgaters, or 30 yr old dump trucks spewing opaque fumes).

Last year, I went to court to explain to a judge that I was doing 79 mph
at
a certain moment, not 80 as the trooper claimed. The dangerous psychopath
ahead of me was in a wheelchair with neck brace and oxygen tank, after
being
beaten mercilessly by 3 DEC officers for being a week gone on his fishing
license. The judge asked him if he was ware of the odd renewal date here
in
NY - end of Sept or something like that. He responded that he understood,
but generally forgot, like almost everyone else who's also preoccupied
with
raking leaves at that time of year. Then, the judge asked him how the
fishing was that day. He told the judge he'd been set upon by bluefills,
and
hadn't caught any steelhead. The judge explained that justice would not
be
served by fining a fisherman who hadn't caught anything worthwhile.


Problem, "Doug"?

I didn't have the "wearable". I got a ticket. It was bull****. I paid
it.
I guess if I had been fishing from a Camaro, it would have been OK.

****ed about something?
Regards,
noah

Well, when I read your message, I was ****ed that I'd run out of grapefruit.
But, my comment on balanced judges seems to fit what you mentioned. You said
the fine was a small one, right? I responded by describing a similar judge.
Did my typo (bluefills instead of bluegills) cause some confusion?
-Doug


Naw, we fish for bluefills all the time.
I think it was the tag-team beating that threw me off. :o)

Regards,
noah

To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
....as you were. :o)

Police Marine Units
 

Dave Hall wrote:

Clams Canino wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message

Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.

I dissagree. Alcohol slows reaction time. The faster the boat, the more that
reaction time comes into play. My boat is plenty fast, and you won't find
me out on a busy lake with any measurable B.A.C.

Like I said, BUI is a no-brainer. But why tie BUI operators with
speedboats? You are coming off like you're stereotyping the typical
performance boater. I find that somewhat offensive. I don't drink
alchohol AT ALL when I boat.


Wish you boated in my waters with your obnoxiously loud boat. I'd have
you cited every time you drove by...



--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:53:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
I can see your point, but on the other hand (and there's always another
hand), the police *do* sometimes slow down traffic to peek in cars for seat
belt compliance. There are occasional complaints about this, but mostly it
goes by without much whining.

=================================================

I always wear my seat belt, as do my passengers. I think it's just
common sense, and don't really understand people who have a problem
with fastening their belts.

On the other hand (as you would say), I think the seat belt law is bad
legislation, and I think that police roadblocks to enforce it is
equally bad law enforcement. Surely their are more important things
for our dedicated and highly trained officers to be doing other than
creating traffic jams and trampling on our constitutional rights in
the process. All of these roadblocks and checkpoints for seat belts,
inspection stickers, DWI screening, etc,, smack of border line police
state tactics and should be seriously discouraged no matter how worthy
the goal. The constitutional prohibitions (actually the Bill of
Rights) against unreasonable search and seizure were put there for a
reason; good reasons. Let's not decide 200 years later that none of
this is important. We walk around as free men today (more or less),
because of the wisdom of our ancestors who learned the hard way.

Police Marine Units
 

Most traffic laws and enforcement are only revenue generation techniques,
having little to do with safety. For instance, why do you see so many cops
out with radar guns on highways, when most accidents occur at intersections?
Easier to bring in the $$ that way.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:53:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
I can see your point, but on the other hand (and there's always another
hand), the police *do* sometimes slow down traffic to peek in cars for
seat
belt compliance. There are occasional complaints about this, but mostly
it
goes by without much whining.

=================================================

I always wear my seat belt, as do my passengers. I think it's just
common sense, and don't really understand people who have a problem
with fastening their belts.

On the other hand (as you would say), I think the seat belt law is bad
legislation, and I think that police roadblocks to enforce it is
equally bad law enforcement. Surely their are more important things
for our dedicated and highly trained officers to be doing other than
creating traffic jams and trampling on our constitutional rights in
the process. All of these roadblocks and checkpoints for seat belts,
inspection stickers, DWI screening, etc,, smack of border line police
state tactics and should be seriously discouraged no matter how worthy
the goal. The constitutional prohibitions (actually the Bill of
Rights) against unreasonable search and seizure were put there for a
reason; good reasons. Let's not decide 200 years later that none of
this is important. We walk around as free men today (more or less),
because of the wisdom of our ancestors who learned the hard way.

Police Marine Units
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:53:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
I can see your point, but on the other hand (and there's always another
hand), the police *do* sometimes slow down traffic to peek in cars for
seat
belt compliance. There are occasional complaints about this, but mostly
it
goes by without much whining.

=================================================

I always wear my seat belt, as do my passengers. I think it's just
common sense, and don't really understand people who have a problem
with fastening their belts.

On the other hand (as you would say), I think the seat belt law is bad
legislation, and I think that police roadblocks to enforce it is
equally bad law enforcement.

I take a more severe view when it comes to automobiles, so my opinions
aren't very popular. If I won a really BIG lottery and had money to burn,
I'd actually hire someone to do a proper study to find out if one of my
theories is true: 90% of drivers are either drunk, completely distracted,
incompetent, legally blind or dead, too stupid to operate a spoon with other
people around, or too frightened of driving to function safely. As a result,
I have no problem with checkpoints. Driving's a privilege, not a right. Free
travel is a right, but not automobile use.

On a more down to earth level, I know two cops, and both have described what
it's like to arrive at an accident scene and try to figure out which arm
belongs to which child, when both are 50% pulverized against a windshield,
or worse, on the road. They say they actually nab people at the checkpoints
whose kids are romping around the car unbelted. The parents often try the
"Hey....I didn't know" routine. Remember what I said in the previous
paragraph? Too stupid to operate a spoon?

Police Marine Units
 

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Most traffic laws and enforcement are only revenue generation techniques,
having little to do with safety. For instance, why do you see so many cops
out with radar guns on highways, when most accidents occur at
intersections?
Easier to bring in the $$ that way.

I'd agree. Each year, before the high-traffic holidays, a NY State Police
spokesperson issues a little recording for radio stations who'd like to use
it. It mentions the most dangerous things drivers can do. Frequently, they
mention tailgating at highway speeds as something which causes more pileups
than anything else, and I'm sure that's true.

In 35 years of driving, I've never spoken to ANYONE who's gotten a ticket
for tailgating on a highway. Give me an unmarked car, and I could easily
write tickets all day long for that offense. But, it can't be measured with
a radar or laser gun, so the cops never do it.

Police Marine Units
 

"noah" wrote in message
...


Well, when I read your message, I was ****ed that I'd run out of
grapefruit.
But, my comment on balanced judges seems to fit what you mentioned. You
said
the fine was a small one, right? I responded by describing a similar
judge.
Did my typo (bluefills instead of bluegills) cause some confusion?
-Doug


Naw, we fish for bluefills all the time.
I think it was the tag-team beating that threw me off. :o)


That was satire! It was a comment on the fact that enforcement is sometimes
wasted on tiny infractions. I mean, at the spot where that guy was busted
for no license, there's also a boat launch. Not a day goes by when I don't
see at least one boat that creates a 30' oil slick when it's backed into the
water. The DEC guy's pickin' his nose someplace else when that happens.

Police Marine Units
 

Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:53:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
I can see your point, but on the other hand (and there's always another
hand), the police *do* sometimes slow down traffic to peek in cars for seat
belt compliance. There are occasional complaints about this, but mostly it
goes by without much whining.

=================================================

I always wear my seat belt, as do my passengers. I think it's just
common sense, and don't really understand people who have a problem
with fastening their belts.

I usually wear my belt too, but my wife finds it uncomfortable and
refuses to.


On the other hand (as you would say), I think the seat belt law is bad
legislation, and I think that police roadblocks to enforce it is
equally bad law enforcement.

Any law that's enacted for the sole purpose of protecting ourselves from
ourselves is intrusive and unnecessary. If someone does not wear their
seatbelt, and they are in an accident, then it's on them if they get
hurt worse. If someone's comfort is worth more to them, than the
potential for increased injury, it's a choice that should be made by the
individual. If someone wants to be on the fast track to a Darwin award,
who are we to stop them?

I would feel differently if the seatbelt law was designed to protect
other people from an individual's negligence (such as DUI), but that's
generally not the case.


Dave

Police Marine Units
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
Clams Canino wrote:

Hi!

This might parrot what others said, but in my opinon the more you can
hound
wreckless jet-ski's the better.

Why? Unless they are breaking a definite law, they have the same right
to be on the water as anyone else, regardless of how they may "annoy"
someone.

Sometimes they have miles of water to play in, but they congregate around
anchored boats whose owners simply want a little peace and quiet. They may
not be breaking a law by doing that, but it's absolutely obnoxious.

Agreed. But encouraging a LEO to "hound them" simply becasue you don't
like what they do, is not legal.

There's
nothing wrong with a cop teaching them some manners, since their parents
obviously forgot.

It's not a cop's place to "teach manners". His place is to enforce
existing laws. If there is no law that prohibits a jetski from
frequenting the same are of a the water, the cop has no right to hassle
the PWC operator.


If the guy in the rowboat with the 5HP engine puts in in a large bay
like the Chesapeake, which is home to megayachts, commercial ships, and
wind swept chop, then his judgement is impared.

If the guy in the small boat plants himself near a channel, he's made a
choice.

Right, a bad one.


If he plants himself miles from a channel and some asshole in a 50
ft boat chooses to come within 200 ft and throw an enormous wake, it's
obnoxious. Again, there's nothing wrong with a cop pulling him over for a
little chat. You know this. Stop baiting the assembled audience.

Again, if you can cite the specific law that's been broken, that's one
thing. Otherwise, making judgement calls based on personal opinion, is
not within the purview of the LEO. Perhaps you favor the cops randomly
pulling over certain cars, which display certain behavioral traits which
*might* be offensive. Some people might call that profiling.


Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.

Like jetski operators, speedboats sometimes they have miles of water to play
in, but they congregate around anchored boats whose owners simply want a
little peace and quiet.

Really? A guy who spends $100K on a flashy Fountain, is going to spend
his time running circles around a bunch of anchored boats? You must boat
in a really strange place. Usually, the only time larger boats run like
this is when they are pulling water toys. It just so happens that some
of the best coves for anchoring, are also the calmest coves for skiing.

Maybe you should reconsider your choice of place to enjoy "peace and
quiet". Anchoring adjacent to a transient channel, and attempting to
complain when people pass by, is a bit ridiculous.


They may not be breaking a law by doing that, but
it's absolutely obnoxious. Some people go boating for the quiet. Some people
go boating for the excitement. They have to allow for each other. You know
this.

Being "obnoxious" is not illegal. Bad taste maybe. Poor manners, likely.
Bad judgement, probably. Oblivious of their affects, most likely. But
illegal, no.

Stop baiting the assembled audience.

I'm not "baiting" anyone. I'm just illustrating the line which exists
between the law, and people's personal opinions. There is no law
protecting anyone from being "annoyed" by the actions of another. This
is a free country (more or less) and people have the right to pursue
their leisure activities, provided that those actions do not pose a
danger to the health and safety of the general population, or are not
expressly prohibited by specific laws.


Dave

Police Marine Units
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


Like I said, BUI is a no-brainer. But why tie BUI operators with
speedboats? You are coming off like you're stereotyping the typical
performance boater. I find that somewhat offensive.

I'm surprised. You, Dave "I wish I was a Vulcan" Hall should see the logic
here. If a speedboater's a mile away and not breaking any rules about speed,
wake or channel, nobody cares and nobody notices.

A new corrolary on the old "If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody
sees it...."?


My main point of contention here is the subtle attempt to link drunk
boating with speedboats and the people who run them. That smacks of
stereotyping. Are performance boaters really that more likely to be
driving drunk?


If he's drunk and hits a
wave the wrong way, flipping the boat and killing everyone onboard, so what?

No one should be operating a boat while drunk.


But, here's a REAL LIFE SCENARIO that I see just about every time I take my
boat out: There are a few areas where boats commonly anchor, at least a mile
or two from the channel, and usually behind islands. Very fast boats, which
have the whole world to play in, come flying past these groups of boats,
sometimes as close as 100', and the same boats sometimes do it repeatedly,
as if they just want to be seen.

Have to considered the possibility that these boats are housed in a
small anchorage or marina, which they get to by taking the path that
you've outlined? Why would people buzz back and forth in the same small
area, when they can venture into more expanse? These aren't jetskis
which are usually based at a land location somewhere close.


Now, let's pretend that these boats made absolutely no wake, and that there
was no speed limit in the area. So, they're breaking no laws. But: A
mechanical or operator failure at high speeds could cause quite a disaster
if that boat is too close to other boats.

And a meteor could strike the earth or I could win the lottery tomorrow.


Therefore (and here comes the
logic, Dave), it is perfectly reasonable to assume that someone doing this
is exercising very poor judgement, and might very well be drunk.

It is common for people, who don't know all the facts, to make incorrect
assumptions about a person's motives. Just like you guys on the left are
always doing when it comes to world politics.


Whether they're breaking any laws or not, they deserve a visit from the authorities.

If they are truly operating in a reckless manner, or pose a very real
potential for danger, then there are laws which address this, and at
that point I would agree with you. But, if your only judgement criteria
is that it "bothers" you, then you can go flap in the breeze.


In a motor vehicle, vague offenses are routinely put in the "reckless
driving" category. It's not a problem. You know that.

If, in fact, the operator is operating recklessly. The criteria for
determining that is fairly well known, and not normally subject to a
wide interpretation.

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:

Clams Canino wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message

Intoxicated operators is a no-brainer, but why the beef with speedboats?
I, like many performance boaters, like things in the fast lane. There
are many myths proliferated relating to operation at speed. Most are a
bunch of hot air.

I dissagree. Alcohol slows reaction time. The faster the boat, the more that
reaction time comes into play. My boat is plenty fast, and you won't find
me out on a busy lake with any measurable B.A.C.

Like I said, BUI is a no-brainer. But why tie BUI operators with
speedboats? You are coming off like you're stereotyping the typical
performance boater. I find that somewhat offensive. I don't drink
alchohol AT ALL when I boat.


Wish you boated in my waters with your obnoxiously loud boat. I'd have
you cited every time you drove by...

As if you could.....

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

noah wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:12:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:47:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"noah" wrote in message
.. .

I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman. :o)


Thank heaven for judges who understand the difference between the essence
of
the law and the letter of the law (unlike the sad troopers who are told
to
sit on the thruway all day and look only for speeders - never mind the
tailgaters, or 30 yr old dump trucks spewing opaque fumes).

Last year, I went to court to explain to a judge that I was doing 79 mph
at
a certain moment, not 80 as the trooper claimed. The dangerous psychopath
ahead of me was in a wheelchair with neck brace and oxygen tank, after
being
beaten mercilessly by 3 DEC officers for being a week gone on his fishing
license. The judge asked him if he was ware of the odd renewal date here
in
NY - end of Sept or something like that. He responded that he understood,
but generally forgot, like almost everyone else who's also preoccupied
with
raking leaves at that time of year. Then, the judge asked him how the
fishing was that day. He told the judge he'd been set upon by bluefills,
and
hadn't caught any steelhead. The judge explained that justice would not
be
served by fining a fisherman who hadn't caught anything worthwhile.


Problem, "Doug"?

I didn't have the "wearable". I got a ticket. It was bull****. I paid
it.
I guess if I had been fishing from a Camaro, it would have been OK.

****ed about something?
Regards,
noah

Well, when I read your message, I was ****ed that I'd run out of grapefruit.
But, my comment on balanced judges seems to fit what you mentioned. You said
the fine was a small one, right? I responded by describing a similar judge.
Did my typo (bluefills instead of bluegills) cause some confusion?
-Doug


Naw, we fish for bluefills all the time.
I think it was the tag-team beating that threw me off. :o)

Regards,
noah


Doug goes crazy with metaphors on occasion. It makes for a more
entertaining story, if nothing else....

Dave

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


I usually wear my belt too, but my wife finds it uncomfortable and
refuses to.

So, I guess she's prepared to be a Darwinian statistic, eh? Have you ever
done the driver ed class demo for her? At 10 mph, in a safe parking lot,
nail the brakes. I mean JUMP on the pedal. Stop the car instantly. You may
want to put two pillows on the dashboard first.

Any law that's enacted for the sole purpose of protecting ourselves from
ourselves is intrusive and unnecessary. If someone does not wear their
seatbelt, and they are in an accident, then it's on them if they get
hurt worse.

What about the children of people who are too stupid to wear them? Do you
agree with the law which allows cops to ticket parents whose kids aren't
belted?

I took a very interesting driving course a couple of years ago. Among other
things, it taught us how to get back in control of the car after we'd gone
from normal pavement and onto the grass median, a common occurrence in
highway accidents. Clue: Except during new construction, you have never seen
and will never see anyone with a lawn roller tidying up the median. It's
unbelievably bumpy after a few winters' worth of frost heaving.

The seatbelts are the only thing that keep you behind the wheel in such
instances. If you're on the median at 50+ mph and you're still driving,
you've probably avoided hitting other cars. You have a much better chance of
finishing the episode alive if you're behind the wheel snugly so you can
drive. Only an idiot would want to be bouncing around the car.

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


Wish you boated in my waters with your obnoxiously loud boat. I'd have
you cited every time you drove by...

As if you could.....

Dave

If any law enforcement service gets a half dozen calls about the same moron,
you can bet your ass they'll stop by. They have lots to lose by not doing
so.

Police Marine Units
 

More often than you may realize, cops have to deal with situations which
involve no violation of the law. But, smart cops show up anyway because they
know that if they don't, they'll have a REAL problem on their hands
otherwise.

You may want to ask a cop about this next thing, but I know you're not too
keen on getting involved with your local public servants.

Forget hostage situations. Forget armed robbers. Forget bomb scares. What is
the most dangerous and unpredictable situation for which cops are called
regularly? Hint: 99% of the time, it initially involves no laws being
broken.

Police Marine Units
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

Doug goes crazy with metaphors on occasion. It makes for a more
entertaining story, if nothing else....

Dave

Sit down, be quiet and drink your chocolate milk.

Police Marine Units
 

Probably domestic / family arguments.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
More often than you may realize, cops have to deal with situations which
involve no violation of the law. But, smart cops show up anyway because
they
know that if they don't, they'll have a REAL problem on their hands
otherwise.

You may want to ask a cop about this next thing, but I know you're not too
keen on getting involved with your local public servants.

Forget hostage situations. Forget armed robbers. Forget bomb scares. What
is
the most dangerous and unpredictable situation for which cops are called
regularly? Hint: 99% of the time, it initially involves no laws being
broken.

Police Marine Units
 

Yep. The nose is in the door. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I saw some
shoulders go by. It won't be long before the tail is past the door, and the
pigs (Animal Farm Reference) have built the fence, a piece at a time.

"WaIIy" wrote in message

No, I don't want to hear about how much it's costing us in medical
bills, blah, blah, blah.

It's erosion of personal freedom, plain and simple.