Police Marine Units
 

"noah" wrote in message
...

I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman. :o)


Thank heaven for judges who understand the difference between the essence of
the law and the letter of the law (unlike the sad troopers who are told to
sit on the thruway all day and look only for speeders - never mind the
tailgaters, or 30 yr old dump trucks spewing opaque fumes).

Last year, I went to court to explain to a judge that I was doing 79 mph at
a certain moment, not 80 as the trooper claimed. The dangerous psychopath
ahead of me was in a wheelchair with neck brace and oxygen tank, after being
beaten mercilessly by 3 DEC officers for being a week gone on his fishing
license. The judge asked him if he was ware of the odd renewal date here in
NY - end of Sept or something like that. He responded that he understood,
but generally forgot, like almost everyone else who's also preoccupied with
raking leaves at that time of year. Then, the judge asked him how the
fishing was that day. He told the judge he'd been set upon by bluefills, and
hadn't caught any steelhead. The judge explained that justice would not be
served by fining a fisherman who hadn't caught anything worthwhile.

Police Marine Units
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:47:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"noah" wrote in message
.. .

I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman. :o)


Thank heaven for judges who understand the difference between the essence of
the law and the letter of the law (unlike the sad troopers who are told to
sit on the thruway all day and look only for speeders - never mind the
tailgaters, or 30 yr old dump trucks spewing opaque fumes).

Last year, I went to court to explain to a judge that I was doing 79 mph at
a certain moment, not 80 as the trooper claimed. The dangerous psychopath
ahead of me was in a wheelchair with neck brace and oxygen tank, after being
beaten mercilessly by 3 DEC officers for being a week gone on his fishing
license. The judge asked him if he was ware of the odd renewal date here in
NY - end of Sept or something like that. He responded that he understood,
but generally forgot, like almost everyone else who's also preoccupied with
raking leaves at that time of year. Then, the judge asked him how the
fishing was that day. He told the judge he'd been set upon by bluefills, and
hadn't caught any steelhead. The judge explained that justice would not be
served by fining a fisherman who hadn't caught anything worthwhile.


Problem, "Doug"?

I didn't have the "wearable". I got a ticket. It was bull****. I paid it.
I guess if I had been fishing from a Camaro, it would have been OK.

****ed about something?
Regards,
noah

********************
Off-topic posting is a bit like farting in a house of worship.
Only children, the arrogant, or the ignorant, can truly enjoy it.
Only the arrogant and the ignorant insist upon doing it.

To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
....as you were. :o)

Police Marine Units
 

But not the innocent dogs, I presume.
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"swatcop" wrote in message
m...


I don't know the official legal name of the law covering wakes, but when
my
son's in the boat, I call it "attempted murder". One of these days,
someone's gonna get a bullet in their fuel tank.

Do something about that, wherever you work.

I'm not sure of the actual name of the statute (as I said I'm new at this
aspect of policing), but I know it exists. Part of my training was with
the
Coast Guard, and I remember the instructor really driving his point home
about boaters being responsible for their wake. One of his examples was a
woman drinking coffee on her husband's boat. Some schmuck flew past them
and
she spilled her coffee on her lap resulting in burns. The operator of the
other boat was heavily fined and also came under civil suit. I will
definitely keep an eye on the wakes of vessels. Thank you for your input.

When you stop those people, always begin the conversation with "please kneel
on the deck and keep your hands where I can see them". Fear is good.

This is why I'm not a cop. I'd execute people for allowing their dogs to
roam the neighborhood unsupervised.

Police Marine Units
 

Also keep an eye out for people shooting at other folks gas tanks...

"swatcop" wrote in message
m...



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"swatcop" wrote in message
...
Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.

Here in Rochester NY, there's a busy area where the sherrifs behave like
giant mosquitoes, pestering anyone who looks wrong. I think it's a great
idea, even though they've bugged me frequently to check my fishing
license.
I have to imagine they nail people for more serious stuff. So, I'd say
"Be
the biggest pain in the ass you can".

My pet peeve involves something that happens constantly when I'm
fishing.
The bay here is about a mile wide, and from side to side, it's deep
enough
for any boat. There's one spot where small fishing boats have been
congregating for years because that's where the perch hang out. The
spot's
about an acre in size. Without fail, there's at least one moron per hour
who
feels the need to crank past the fishermen at top speed, throwing 3-5 ft
wakes.

I don't know the official legal name of the law covering wakes, but when
my
son's in the boat, I call it "attempted murder". One of these days,
someone's gonna get a bullet in their fuel tank.

Do something about that, wherever you work.

I'm not sure of the actual name of the statute (as I said I'm new at this
aspect of policing), but I know it exists. Part of my training was with
the
Coast Guard, and I remember the instructor really driving his point home
about boaters being responsible for their wake. One of his examples was a
woman drinking coffee on her husband's boat. Some schmuck flew past them
and
she spilled her coffee on her lap resulting in burns. The operator of the
other boat was heavily fined and also came under civil suit. I will
definitely keep an eye on the wakes of vessels. Thank you for your input.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:47:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"noah" wrote in message
.. .

I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman. :o)


Thank heaven for judges who understand the difference between the essence
of
the law and the letter of the law (unlike the sad troopers who are told
to
sit on the thruway all day and look only for speeders - never mind the
tailgaters, or 30 yr old dump trucks spewing opaque fumes).

Last year, I went to court to explain to a judge that I was doing 79 mph
at
a certain moment, not 80 as the trooper claimed. The dangerous psychopath
ahead of me was in a wheelchair with neck brace and oxygen tank, after
being
beaten mercilessly by 3 DEC officers for being a week gone on his fishing
license. The judge asked him if he was ware of the odd renewal date here
in
NY - end of Sept or something like that. He responded that he understood,
but generally forgot, like almost everyone else who's also preoccupied
with
raking leaves at that time of year. Then, the judge asked him how the
fishing was that day. He told the judge he'd been set upon by bluefills,
and
hadn't caught any steelhead. The judge explained that justice would not
be
served by fining a fisherman who hadn't caught anything worthwhile.


Problem, "Doug"?

I didn't have the "wearable". I got a ticket. It was bull****. I paid
it.
I guess if I had been fishing from a Camaro, it would have been OK.

****ed about something?
Regards,
noah

Well, when I read your message, I was ****ed that I'd run out of grapefruit.
But, my comment on balanced judges seems to fit what you mentioned. You said
the fine was a small one, right? I responded by describing a similar judge.
Did my typo (bluefills instead of bluegills) cause some confusion?
-Doug

Police Marine Units
 

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:35:44 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
I want to know what the
PUBLIC wants done. Thank you for your input.

==========================================

I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my
hot buttons:

Really tough noise enforcement. There is no excuse whatsoever for
operating a boat that can be heard more than a mile away. Ideally
this should start with the manufacurers and dealers but tough "on the
water" enforcement would have the same effect over time. No mufflers,
no boating.

Mindless operation in general, particularly personal water craft (jet
skis) that circle in the same general area. This is a constant
annoyance both to anchored boats, and also to home owners who can't
escape.

Mindless enforcement by marine police with a "by the book" radar trap
mentality. Speed zones are out of control in many areas because of
the mindless and irresponsible actions of a few. If a boat is being
operated in a safe manner, leaving a minimal wake, is not bothering
anyone, leave them alone - even if they are running on plane in a
speed zone. Many small boats can run on plane without endangering or
bothering anyone.

Last but not least, be unobtrusive. People are on the water to have a
good time and do not like a police state atmosphere. It's a tough
balance to strike but well worth the effort.

Police Marine Units
 

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:55:36 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
Would you be offended if the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
to launch at a boat ramp?

======================================

Absolutely offended. This is intrusive enforcement with no probable
cause. Leave people alone unless they are doing something stupid or
annoying.

Police Marine Units
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...


I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my
hot buttons:

Really tough noise enforcement.

You'll be running for town supervisor here next year, right? :-)

Police Marine Units
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:42:59 +0000, Wayne.B wrote:

I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my hot
buttons:

Really tough noise enforcement.

As I get older, I'm surprised at how intrusive I find loud noises. Things
that never used to bother me are now an annoyance, loud boats,
un-muffled Harleys, or, my personal favorite, the Sunday mower
marathon.

Police Marine Units
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:42:59 +0000, Wayne.B wrote:

I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my hot
buttons:

Really tough noise enforcement.

As I get older, I'm surprised at how intrusive I find loud noises. Things
that never used to bother me are now an annoyance, loud boats,
un-muffled Harleys, or, my personal favorite, the Sunday mower
marathon.

I can sort of put up with the mowers, but it's the leaf blowers that get to
me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide and 30
feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down 17 blades
of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom off our
driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.

Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

Police Marine Units
 

There are no USCG regs that "require" an anchor on a boat.
krj

Doug Kanter wrote:
"swatcop" wrote in message
m...


Would you be offended if the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that way.



That's a good idea. Include proper anchors in the list of necessary toys.
I've had the CG look over my yacht and check everything EXCEPT the anchor. I
can't tell you how many times I've had to hoist MY anchor to get out of the
way of some putz with an undersized anchor whose boat starts drifting and
threatening other anchored boats because the guy's motor won't start fast
enough.

Fishing is my church. Nobody disturbs my worship with my whining about it.
:-)

Police Marine Units
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote

... the requirement to have an anchor
aboard is not Federal. Many states have placed their own requirement
for
an anchor, and generally the CG will include the anchor as required in
those
states.


Well, then people without anchors should be tried on the spot

Oh, I agree with you in principle (we might negotiate the nightcrawler
thing). I've been teaching in the CG Aux for several years, and we always
have to take time to clearly explain this irony. My personal opinion is
that only a fool would be afloat without an anchor, even on a pole raft.
But that is the law, odd as it seems.

Police Marine Units
 

I'll bet you a 6-pack that anyone stupid enough NOT to have one also has no
idea what the coast guard requirements are. You could probably tell them
they were required to have a can of Spam for each passenger and they'd
believe it.

"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
.. .
There are no USCG regs that "require" an anchor on a boat.
krj

Doug Kanter wrote:
"swatcop" wrote in message
m...


Would you be offended if the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in
line
to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that
way.



That's a good idea. Include proper anchors in the list of necessary
toys.
I've had the CG look over my yacht and check everything EXCEPT the
anchor. I
can't tell you how many times I've had to hoist MY anchor to get out of
the
way of some putz with an undersized anchor whose boat starts drifting
and
threatening other anchored boats because the guy's motor won't start
fast
enough.

Fishing is my church. Nobody disturbs my worship with my whining about
it.
:-)

Police Marine Units
 

cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
to launch at a boat ramp?

======================================

Absolutely offended. This is intrusive enforcement with no probable
cause.


I would only be offended that they were squandering police resources for
something that could be accomplished by the boy scouts.

BTW my best experience on the water with law enforcement was a stop by a
Florida Marine Patrol officer who was really looking for fishing violations. In
a very friendly conversation with the officer, who was complimenting me on how
I had my boat rigged, I realized he had seen every piece of required equipment.
That man was a professional. I guess I did make it easy for him since
everything is easily accessible but that is for my safety. My experience with
SW Fla marine officers has always been positive.

Police Marine Units
 

Patrol the boat ramps and their usage. The rules here are that the tow
vehicles make the line and it never fails that someone in a boat will just pull
up to the ramp and think they can sit there while they go get their vehicle...
Nothing like a good fight at a busy ramp.

Police Marine Units
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:13 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:

I can sort of put up with the mowers,

With the mowers, it isn't the sound I find objectionable, it's the
marathon. Around here, Sunday is the day for mowing. The problem is that
they don't all mow at the same time, it's an all day affair.

but it's the leaf blowers that get
to me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide
and 30 feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down
17 blades of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom
off our driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.

Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

I'm sure you have seen this guy. A can of beer in one hand, a hose in the
other, hosing of that driveway. At least it's quieter.

Police Marine Units
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:13 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:

I can sort of put up with the mowers,

With the mowers, it isn't the sound I find objectionable, it's the
marathon. Around here, Sunday is the day for mowing. The problem is that
they don't all mow at the same time, it's an all day affair.

but it's the leaf blowers that get
to me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide
and 30 feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down
17 blades of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom
off our driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet
long.

Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

I'm sure you have seen this guy. A can of beer in one hand, a hose in the
other, hosing of that driveway. At least it's quieter.

His brother lives on my street. He's got a cousin who visits three times a
week, and stays until 1:00 AM. When he leaves, he says goodbye to the
household by honking his horn. Moron.

Police Marine Units
 

thunder wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:13 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:

I can sort of put up with the mowers,

With the mowers, it isn't the sound I find objectionable, it's the
marathon. Around here, Sunday is the day for mowing. The problem is that
they don't all mow at the same time, it's an all day affair.

but it's the leaf blowers that get
to me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide
and 30 feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down
17 blades of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom
off our driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.

Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

I'm sure you have seen this guy. A can of beer in one hand, a hose in the
other, hosing of that driveway. At least it's quieter.


Down near the front of our little country road, we have a farmer who has
what I can only describe as a muffler-less diesel tractor (or maybe just
a defective muffler) with which he tows a very substantial mower. The
noise is breathtaking.

Guy grows two acres of tobacco in the spring and summer, then hangs it
in a traditional dingy red barn. I had thought the raising of tobacco
had been restricted in Maryland, but there must be loopholes. In any
event, the plant itself looks quite nice when it is fully grown, and has
some interesting flowers. After the tobacco is cleared, he grows
turnips, kale and several other very traditional southern leaf crops for
his table.

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."



--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Down near the front of our little country road, we have a farmer who has
what I can only describe as a muffler-less diesel tractor (or maybe just
a defective muffler) with which he tows a very substantial mower. The
noise is breathtaking.

Guy grows two acres of tobacco in the spring and summer, then hangs it
in a traditional dingy red barn. I had thought the raising of tobacco
had been restricted in Maryland, but there must be loopholes. In any
event, the plant itself looks quite nice when it is fully grown, and has
some interesting flowers. After the tobacco is cleared, he grows
turnips, kale and several other very traditional southern leaf crops for
his table.

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."

The plant is in the same family as Nicotiana, a very popular spring annual
that people buy by the millions each year.

As far as why he's growing tobacco, he may be selling it to boutique cigar
makers who've set up shop since people began to think cigars looked and
smelled good. Sort of like the hundreds of coffee and chocolate boutiques we
now have.

Police Marine Units
 

As far as why he's growing tobacco,


He is trying to maintain his quota. If he ever stops growing it he will never
be able to grow it again. It is very possible that the plot is actually leased
out.

Police Marine Units
 

On 14 Dec 2003 17:19:54 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

My experience with
SW Fla marine officers has always been positive.

===========================================

That's good to know since that's where I'm doing my boating these days
and we have no shortage of mindless speed zones around here.

Police Marine Units
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Down near the front of our little country road, we have a farmer who has
what I can only describe as a muffler-less diesel tractor (or maybe just
a defective muffler) with which he tows a very substantial mower. The
noise is breathtaking.

Guy grows two acres of tobacco in the spring and summer, then hangs it
in a traditional dingy red barn. I had thought the raising of tobacco
had been restricted in Maryland, but there must be loopholes. In any
event, the plant itself looks quite nice when it is fully grown, and has
some interesting flowers. After the tobacco is cleared, he grows
turnips, kale and several other very traditional southern leaf crops for
his table.

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."

The plant is in the same family as Nicotiana, a very popular spring annual
that people buy by the millions each year.

As far as why he's growing tobacco, he may be selling it to boutique cigar
makers who've set up shop since people began to think cigars looked and
smelled good. Sort of like the hundreds of coffee and chocolate boutiques we
now have.



Might be. I'll ask him. Maybe he grows tobacco for the Governator's cigars.
He does some bush-hogging for me from time to time. Love that word.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

Greg wrote:

As far as why he's growing tobacco,


He is trying to maintain his quota. If he ever stops growing it he will never
be able to grow it again. It is very possible that the plot is actually leased
out.

It is a leased-out plot. It's right across the street from his farmhouse.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

Swatcop:
I just want to echo what others have said, and to thank you for asking for
the opinions of boaters on the subject of marine law enforcement!

"swatcop" wrote in message
m...



"Snafu" wrote in message
nk.net...
You can go by the book enforcing any laws at your disposal related to
the
operation of jet skis...

I agree on that subject - not to worry. Thanks.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

In Canada, an anchor _is_ a federal requirement. See
http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/obs-bsn. They do not, however, state anything about
the anchor except that it exist!

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in.


That's a good idea. Include proper anchors in the list of necessary
toys.
I've had the CG look over my yacht and check everything EXCEPT the
anchor.

I don't know where you are, Doug, but the requirement to have an anchor
aboard is not Federal. Many states have placed their own requirement for
an
anchor, and generally the CG will include the anchor as required in those
states.

JG

Police Marine Units
 

Harry Krause wrote:

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."

Oh, you mean someone like yourself who described himself as just doing a
little real estate development? Not that I believe that for a second,
but the hypocrisy you ooze out of every pore makes you something of a
one man freak show.

-- Charlie


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Police Marine Units
 

1/ We have a great program in Canada, which I think exists in many places in
the U.S. too, of "courtesy" inspections. However, I don't know if the police
offers them - I get mine from the CGAux. (In fact, I think the police have a
formal "zero tolerance" policy.) There are no penalties - it's just
advisory. The "advice," if you found to be in violation, is that if a police
officer ever stops you, you will be fined.

So, responsible boaters who have done their best and think their boat is
adequately equipped can have it checked by an authoritative source without
fear of recrimination, and without occupying police resources which perhaps
could be better utilized elsewhere.

The check on my boat takes a good twenty minutes, so I'm not sure how you
could do that in a boat-ramp line-up. (Are they that slow?)

2/ In our society, we all (almost) know how to drive a car, so a police
officer can take special training in highway enforcement, and even advanced
driving techniques, and be a good highway patrolman. But we don't all have
much experience operating boats, and a course or two is very good but
nowhere near the experience and expertise that some recreational boaters
have, so that's a problem I've heard about at times: boaters being ordered
to hold station in a cross-wind with an opposing current in a narrow
shipping channel, for example, which just can't work. A Rule of the Sea is
that the captain (even the owner or operator of a small recreational boat)
is responsible for the safe operation of that vessel, and can refuse orders
from other authorities if he/she believes it necessary. I don't know if
that's written or traditional. And I suspect that you would want to be able
to convince a judge, later, that you weren't just trying to evade the
officer, but really could not in all conscience behave as demanded. That can
often be resolved by a patient police officer asking for clarification -
firmly but politely - or asking in what manner could the boater maneuver
his/her boat in order for the further inspection to proceed, etc.

This should start along the lines of, "I'm sorry officer, but am unable to
comply due to the narrow channel with a cross-wind and current. Could you
suggest an alternate course of action?" Or, "May I suggest an alternate
course of action?" But people are often very threatened and angry when
approached, so handling it professionally I think sometimes requires every
ounce of self-control the officer can muster.

I, for example, have had good, long looks through the Nav Rules on many
occasions, and still learn something new each time I inspect them, and I
sincerely doubt that most weekend marine policemen understand them as well
as I do. That need not be a problem if I remain respectful, and if the
policemen doesn't have the insecurity that some exhibit about having about
limitations of their knowledge, as long as both parties are simply willing
to have a conversation and then to gauge what they think about the accuracy
of the new information and reformulate their plans based on that. I am also
very familiar with my boat, and understand its capabilities and limitation,
and don't expect every police officer to know all about the different
handling characteristics of small planing sailboats, large keel boats,
planing power boats with single or double I/O's or IB's, displacement and
semi-displacement trawlers... there's a lot to know, and it takes years of
boat operation to come to grips with some of it.

Some law enforcers go into bureaucratic mode, and I've heard of, "You're
trying my patience, plead guilty or spend the night in jail," over very
minor stuff that just required a few minutes of calm explanation. From what
I've seen so far, you're not one of those (and I hope they're the minority).

Which is good!

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"swatcop" wrote in message
m...
... And as a question on the safety checks, other than the marinas in my
town, most people use a public boat ramp area. Would you be offended if
the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that way.
Thank you for your input.
-= swatcop =-

Police Marine Units
 

"Charles T. Low" wrote in message

In Canada, an anchor _is_ a federal requirement. See

Sorry, Charles. Once again, I forgot to specify. :-)

JG

Police Marine Units
 

Yeah, wasn't he developing houses using 100% union labor, just to show the
unions and the developers how it could be profitable. The man is a godsend
to humanity.


"Charles" wrote in message
...


Harry Krause wrote:

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."

Oh, you mean someone like yourself who described himself as just doing a
little real estate development? Not that I believe that for a second,
but the hypocrisy you ooze out of every pore makes you something of a
one man freak show.

-- Charlie


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News==----
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Newsgroups
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=---

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Jack Meholf wrote:

Yeah, wasn't he developing houses using 100% union labor, just to show the
unions and the developers how it could be profitable. The man is a godsend
to humanity.

How much did you say you got for that ski boat?

--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

I wonder how many deer he killed when he developed that land and increased
man's encroachment upon the deer's native habitat.

Someone should shot this guy before he kills more deer, if not shot him at
least pin him down with a truck so he can't do any more damage to our
environment.

"Charles" wrote in message
...


Harry Krause wrote:

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."

Oh, you mean someone like yourself who described himself as just doing a
little real estate development? Not that I believe that for a second,
but the hypocrisy you ooze out of every pore makes you something of a
one man freak show.

-- Charlie


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Police Marine Units
 

Jack Meholf wrote:

I wonder how many deer he killed when he developed that land and increased
man's encroachment upon the deer's native habitat.

So, how much did you say you got for that wakeboard skiboat?

--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

I don't believe I discussed a skiboat or a wakeboard boat.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jack Meholf wrote:

I wonder how many deer he killed when he developed that land and
increased
man's encroachment upon the deer's native habitat.

So, how much did you say you got for that wakeboard skiboat?

--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

Jack Meholf wrote:
I don't believe I discussed a skiboat or a wakeboard boat.


Not under your current ID of Jack-Me-Off.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Police Marine Units
 

swatcop,
Just can't beat common sense. To Protect and to Serve is what's it's all
about. You sound like a good cop to me.
Paul

"swatcop" wrote in message
...
Looking for a little bit of direction here. I've been recently assigned to
my department's Marine Unit. I've been a cop for 15 years. I lived in NJ
at
the shore around boats most of my life, but never owned one. I rarely even
went out on boats except for fishing or waterskiing. I moved to Florida in
late 2000, and I'm still working as a cop (just in a nicer place). As a
result of some administrative changes in my department, I was assigned to
the Marine Unit. I've completed the necessary training and such, but one
thing is lacking: experience. I'll try to get to the point - I'm open for
comments and opinions. I know what the law says, and I know what my job
is,
but I try to use more common sense than what the law may actually say in
black & white. What do you (as boaters) feel the most important issues are
for the Police to deal with on the water? Would you like to see more
O.U.I.
enforcement? More vessel stops for no wake zone infractions? More safety
inspections? More after dark patrols of inlets, channels, and harbor
areas?
You tell me. I'm asking for your honest opinions here. As a rule I use
more
common sense than anything on the job. I treat people fairly, and as a
result I rarely ever have to appear in court. I would like to do the same
on
the water. Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.

Police Marine Units
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'll bet you a 6-pack that anyone stupid enough NOT to have one also has
no
idea what the coast guard requirements are. You could probably tell them
they were required to have a can of Spam for each passenger and they'd
believe it.
Actually, he's correct. By USCG standards an anchor is a "suggested" piece
of equipment, but not mandatory.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:55:36 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
Would you be offended if the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in
line
to launch at a boat ramp?

======================================

Absolutely offended. This is intrusive enforcement with no probable
cause. Leave people alone unless they are doing something stupid or
annoying.

Just F.Y.I., my personal definition of a safety inspection is not to be a
jerk and have a citation writing contest. I was thinking more along the
lines of pointing out to the boaters what equipment is old or missing,
trying to help out, not be an ass with a ticket book. I just figured while
you were in line at the boat ramp and I was walking by I could do a quick
equipment check. YOU may have everything you are supposed to have and
everything might be up to date, but the boaters in front of you and behind
you may be a different story. My idea of safety checks is not to be
intrusive (or trying to establish probable cause to search your boat for
other stuff), but to help. You may have had bad experiences in the past with
other officers, but my outlook is a little bit different. Thank you for your
input, though. I will note you response.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Charles T. Low" wrote in message
...
1/ We have a great program in Canada, which I think exists in many places
in
the U.S. too, of "courtesy" inspections. However, I don't know if the
police
offers them - I get mine from the CGAux. (In fact, I think the police have
a
formal "zero tolerance" policy.) There are no penalties - it's just
advisory. The "advice," if you found to be in violation, is that if a
police
officer ever stops you, you will be fined.

Luckily I'm not like that. I don't think that a fistfull of citations is the
answer unless the driver/operator is a disrespectful assclown with
absolutely no respect for the safety of others.


So, responsible boaters who have done their best and think their boat is
adequately equipped can have it checked by an authoritative source without
fear of recrimination, and without occupying police resources which
perhaps
could be better utilized elsewhere.

The check on my boat takes a good twenty minutes, so I'm not sure how you
could do that in a boat-ramp line-up. (Are they that slow?)

Well, actually sometimes they are that slow. I've seen 10 to 15 trucks with
boats on the trailer waiting their turn in line.


2/ In our society, we all (almost) know how to drive a car, so a police
officer can take special training in highway enforcement, and even
advanced
driving techniques, and be a good highway patrolman. But we don't all have
much experience operating boats, and a course or two is very good but
nowhere near the experience and expertise that some recreational boaters
have, so that's a problem I've heard about at times: boaters being ordered
to hold station in a cross-wind with an opposing current in a narrow
shipping channel, for example, which just can't work. A Rule of the Sea is
that the captain (even the owner or operator of a small recreational boat)
is responsible for the safe operation of that vessel, and can refuse
orders
from other authorities if he/she believes it necessary. I don't know if
that's written or traditional. And I suspect that you would want to be
able
to convince a judge, later, that you weren't just trying to evade the
officer, but really could not in all conscience behave as demanded. That
can
often be resolved by a patient police officer asking for clarification -
firmly but politely - or asking in what manner could the boater maneuver
his/her boat in order for the further inspection to proceed, etc.

Which is exactly why I am asking for the opinions of people like yourself
with experience.


This should start along the lines of, "I'm sorry officer, but am unable to
comply due to the narrow channel with a cross-wind and current. Could you
suggest an alternate course of action?" Or, "May I suggest an alternate
course of action?" But people are often very threatened and angry when
approached, so handling it professionally I think sometimes requires every
ounce of self-control the officer can muster.

I'm always open for suggestions if I'm not absolutely sure that I'm right on
a certain topic. Some of the "rookies" have that "I'm right and you're
wrong" attitude, but I'm long over that.


I, for example, have had good, long looks through the Nav Rules on many
occasions, and still learn something new each time I inspect them, and I
sincerely doubt that most weekend marine policemen understand them as well
as I do. That need not be a problem if I remain respectful, and if the
policemen doesn't have the insecurity that some exhibit about having about
limitations of their knowledge, as long as both parties are simply willing
to have a conversation and then to gauge what they think about the
accuracy
of the new information and reformulate their plans based on that. I am
also
very familiar with my boat, and understand its capabilities and
limitation,
and don't expect every police officer to know all about the different
handling characteristics of small planing sailboats, large keel boats,
planing power boats with single or double I/O's or IB's, displacement and
semi-displacement trawlers... there's a lot to know, and it takes years
of
boat operation to come to grips with some of it.

Some law enforcers go into bureaucratic mode, and I've heard of, "You're
trying my patience, plead guilty or spend the night in jail," over very
minor stuff that just required a few minutes of calm explanation. From
what
I've seen so far, you're not one of those (and I hope they're the
minority).

I'm definitely not one of "those," and I'm sorry that some idiot with a
badge who obviously had himself confused with an entity berated you. We're
not all like that.


Which is good!

====

Charles T. Low

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it and will note your response.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

"Capt. Matt" wrote in message
...
Sir,
I am impressed! I have always had positive dealings with law enforcement,
as
a P.S. teacher and as a boat captain. But the fact that I see you not
only
ask but reply to local boaters, I think we have a real asset on the water
with you! If you are in the Naples to E.G.C. area I hope to see you
'unofficially on the water. Be safe, I'll do the same!

Capt. Matt

Thanks, Capt. Matt - I'll be on the Gulf of Mexico in the Tampa Bay area.
And it's not "sir," it's Bill. Be safe.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Police Marine Units
 

(snip)
You don't sound like the type, but just for future reference:

I went striper fishing one early morning, in the pouring rain, by
myself, in my 14' jon-boat, on the Hudson River. I launched in the
dark, and although I had two approved throwable PDF's onboard, I left
my "wearable" PDF on the launch ramp.

A few hours later, a DEC center cabin comes roaring up, and hooks my
gunwale. My little anchor is holding both of us, against a rising
tide and current, and he damned near swamps me. I disobey his
instruction to leave my anchor set, and pull it before my jon goes
under.

I'm wet, cold, with no fish, and he writes me up for no "wearable"
PDF. Yup, it was my mistake, but he was bustin' my ass, and he was an
idiot. In a 14' jon, the law does not require me to wear the
"wearable", just "have one on board", so what's the difference between
"wearable" and "throwable"? If he hadn't hooked my boat, I wouldn't
have needed the friggin' "wearable". I was the only boat on the river
that morning for miles, so I guess he had to find "something". After
writing me up, he ordered me off the river. Barney Fife.

I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman. :o)

You sound like a reasonable guy. People will appreciate that, so do
what you gotta' do. Thanks for listening.
Regards,
noah

Either the guy was a rookie or hasn't figured out what being a cop is all
about yet (at least by MY standards). Sorry you had a bad experience, I'm
definitely not like that. My policy is "I'm nice until it's time to NOT be
nice." I've got no problem issuing verbal warnings, so long as I'm not
disrespected and it's not a heinous crime. I don't believe in quotas and I
won't write anyone for things that I personally do. I appreciate your input,
Noah. Thanks.
--
-= swatcop =-

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."