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See you all in the spring....
Well, I have been lurking in the shadows for some time now and see the group is
still fighting amongst the ranks. I wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and I'll be back on here in the spring. FWIW... since my boat is wrapped up and winterized, I have been enjoying my free time going hunting. A few members of this group (you know who you are) could use a good dose of the outdoors. Get yourself some camoflage, grab a lever-action 30-30 rifle, or 12GA shotgun, and head out into the woods or the edge of a farmers field. It's a true challenge and is rich in tradition. Butch Ammon |
See you all in the spring....
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See you all in the spring....
With Christmas Season and all it's hard to get excited about shootin' &
killin' Maybe a little later on when cabin fever sets in. Here you have to wear 'hunter orange' so the other gun nuts have a better target. :-) Butch Ammon wrote in message ... Well, I have been lurking in the shadows for some time now and see the group is still fighting amongst the ranks. I wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and I'll be back on here in the spring. FWIW... since my boat is wrapped up and winterized, I have been enjoying my free time going hunting. A few members of this group (you know who you are) could use a good dose of the outdoors. Get yourself some camoflage, grab a lever-action 30-30 rifle, or 12GA shotgun, and head out into the woods or the edge of a farmers field. It's a true challenge and is rich in tradition. Butch Ammon |
See you all in the spring....
Off-topic posting is a bit like farting in a house of worship.
Only children, the arrogant, or the ignorant, can truly enjoy it. Only the arrogant and the ignorant insist on it. To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah. ...as you were. :o) Bitching and criticizing is pretty easy. How long since you last started an on-topic thread? |
See you all in the spring....
|
See you all in the spring....
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See you all in the spring....
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See you all in the spring....
Gould 0738 wrote: Off-topic posting is a bit like farting in a house of worship. Only children, the arrogant, or the ignorant, can truly enjoy it. Only the arrogant and the ignorant insist on it. To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah. ...as you were. :o) Bitching and criticizing is pretty easy. How long since you last started an on-topic thread? Throw a rock in a pack of dogs. The one that yelps is the one that got hit. woof woof gould. -- Charlie ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
See you all in the spring....
Butch Ammon wrote:
Well, I have been lurking in the shadows for some time now and see the group is still fighting amongst the ranks. I wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and I'll be back on here in the spring. FWIW... since my boat is wrapped up and winterized, I have been enjoying my free time going hunting. A few members of this group (you know who you are) could use a good dose of the outdoors. Get yourself some camoflage, grab a lever-action 30-30 rifle, or 12GA shotgun, and head out into the woods or the edge of a farmers field. It's a true challenge and is rich in tradition. Just watch out for those protesters who don't share your view of hunting as a "rich" tradition. In their eyes, you're an "evil" person...... Dave |
See you all in the spring....
Just watch out for those protesters who don't share your view of hunting
as a "rich" tradition. In their eyes, you're an "evil" person...... I know what you are saying. I dealt with that here at work. One of the ladies in the admin dept came over to my cubicle one time to talk to me. She saw a bunch of old Field & Stream magazines on file cabinet, and saw the photo of me decked out in camoflage, standing in front of a duck boat, holding a pair of ducks. She darn near wigged out on me: "Is that YOU? Oh my God... I didn't know you got into that stuff! You don't seem like the type". "The TYPE"?!?! What "type" is she referring to? Hmmm.... Maybe it's because I'm a mild mannered white collared computer geek, but on weekends I don the camoflage and go hunting. Anyway, take care everyone and have a wonderful Christmas holiday! Butch Ammon |
See you all in the spring....
"Butch Ammon" wrote in message
... Just watch out for those protesters who don't share your view of hunting as a "rich" tradition. In their eyes, you're an "evil" person...... I know what you are saying. I dealt with that here at work. One of the ladies in the admin dept came over to my cubicle one time to talk to me. She saw a bunch of old Field & Stream magazines on file cabinet, and saw the photo of me decked out in camoflage, standing in front of a duck boat, holding a pair of ducks. She darn near wigged out on me: "Is that YOU? Oh my God... I didn't know you got into that stuff! You don't seem like the type". "The TYPE"?!?! What "type" is she referring to? Hmmm.... Maybe it's because I'm a mild mannered white collared computer geek, but on weekends I don the camoflage and go hunting. Perhaps she is referring to the type that does'nt outsource 'upleasant' tasks. If she is a meat eater ask her if she believes that the meat she eats has all died of natural causes. Suggest she take a field trip to a meat slaughter/processing plant. If she does so she will learn that annimals are neither willingly nor painlessly transformed to shrink wrapped packages. She will also learn that most hunted annimals are more humanely killed than the shrink wrapped ones. |
See you all in the spring....
Perhaps she is referring to the type that does'nt outsource 'upleasant'
tasks. If she is a meat eater ask her if she believes that the meat she eats has all died of natural causes. Suggest she take a field trip to a meat slaughter/processing plant. If she does so she will learn that annimals are neither willingly nor painlessly transformed to shrink wrapped packages. She will also learn that most hunted annimals are more humanely killed than the shrink wrapped ones. I'd rather run free in the forest and take my chances with hunters and predators than spend my life in a "secure" 16 sq ft cage. I bet a lot of wild animals feel the same way. :-) |
See you all in the spring....
Nim wrote:
She will also learn that most hunted annimals are more humanely killed than the shrink wrapped ones. Humanely killed? What the hell does that mean in hunting? A couple of years ago, Arnold, one of our pet cats was dying, with several major organs giving up the ghost. We medicated him for as long as we could, to keep him alive, but, in the end, when it was obvious he was suffering, we held him while the vet put him to sleep. He was humanely killed. In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. -- Email sent to is never read. |
See you all in the spring....
Harry wrote:
In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry |
See you all in the spring....
F330 GT wrote:
Harry wrote: In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry If I were a deer, I'd prefer NOT to be shot. Period. There is no such thing as "humane" hunting or fishing if, in the end, you kill the critter. I understand how we humans like to use softer language to make our slaughter of the animals we hunt or fish sound better but killing is killing is killing. In most cases, the land can no longer support the critters because we have encroached upon the land, or have killed off all the "natural" predators. In other words, if there are too many deer in an area, it isn't because the deer just copulate all day. It is because we have destroyed their habitat and the room they used to have for free roam isn't there anymore. We have deer wandering through our property all the time, and the property of our neighbors. We're in a "hunter free" zone, and so far, we are not overpopulated with deer. Once or twice a month, a deer and a car have an unfortunate encounter out on the county roads, and the deer almost always loses. Wish we could establish a "deer crossing" that really was. If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. -- Email sent to is never read. |
See you all in the spring....
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:38:50 +0000, F330 GT wrote:
1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. I don't have any problems with hunting, but there is more to the equation than curtailing hunting. I live in New Jersey, and the deer population here has exploded. Hunting has not been curtailed, on the contrary, hunters are allowed many does, and several bucks, depending on licenses/permits. Here, the Dept. of Fish & Game manage the herd as a resource, I've heard it argued perhaps too successfully. |
See you all in the spring....
Harry,
It looks like the problem is over population of the human species, maybe you would like to take a stand on correcting this problem and removing yourself from the encroaching onto the deer's natural habitat. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... F330 GT wrote: Harry wrote: In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry If I were a deer, I'd prefer NOT to be shot. Period. There is no such thing as "humane" hunting or fishing if, in the end, you kill the critter. I understand how we humans like to use softer language to make our slaughter of the animals we hunt or fish sound better but killing is killing is killing. In most cases, the land can no longer support the critters because we have encroached upon the land, or have killed off all the "natural" predators. In other words, if there are too many deer in an area, it isn't because the deer just copulate all day. It is because we have destroyed their habitat and the room they used to have for free roam isn't there anymore. We have deer wandering through our property all the time, and the property of our neighbors. We're in a "hunter free" zone, and so far, we are not overpopulated with deer. Once or twice a month, a deer and a car have an unfortunate encounter out on the county roads, and the deer almost always loses. Wish we could establish a "deer crossing" that really was. If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. -- Email sent to is never read. |
See you all in the spring....
Harry wrote:
In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry If I were a deer, I'd prefer NOT to be shot. Period. There is no such thing as "humane" hunting or fishing if, in the end, you kill the critter. I understand how we humans like to use softer language to make our slaughter of the animals we hunt or fish sound better but killing is killing is killing. In most cases, the land can no longer support the critters because we have encroached upon the land, or have killed off all the "natural" predators. In other words, if there are too many deer in an area, it isn't because the deer just copulate all day. It is because we have destroyed their habitat and the room they used to have for free roam isn't there anymore. We have deer wandering through our property all the time, and the property of our neighbors. We're in a "hunter free" zone, and so far, we are not overpopulated with deer. Once or twice a month, a deer and a car have an unfortunate encounter out on the county roads, and the deer almost always loses. Wish we could establish a "deer crossing" that really was. If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. So Harry, what's your solution to the problem? Should we give the land back? In fact, should we just give it back to the Indians and all move back to Western Europe. Thant presents a whole new set of problems. Reality has to fit into your perception of what is right and wrong. I'm not a big hunter but I'm a realist. And I don't see the difference btween eating venison and eating beef, chicken, pork, or store bought salmon. They all die pretty much the same way. And you being a avid fisherman, I'm surprised to hear that you practice strictly "catch and release". What about the poor crabs in those crabcakes that you love? What an untimely death to be thrown into a cauldron of boiling water. Shame on you. Barry |
See you all in the spring....
F330 GT wrote:
Harry wrote: In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry If I were a deer, I'd prefer NOT to be shot. Period. There is no such thing as "humane" hunting or fishing if, in the end, you kill the critter. I understand how we humans like to use softer language to make our slaughter of the animals we hunt or fish sound better but killing is killing is killing. In most cases, the land can no longer support the critters because we have encroached upon the land, or have killed off all the "natural" predators. In other words, if there are too many deer in an area, it isn't because the deer just copulate all day. It is because we have destroyed their habitat and the room they used to have for free roam isn't there anymore. We have deer wandering through our property all the time, and the property of our neighbors. We're in a "hunter free" zone, and so far, we are not overpopulated with deer. Once or twice a month, a deer and a car have an unfortunate encounter out on the county roads, and the deer almost always loses. Wish we could establish a "deer crossing" that really was. If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. So Harry, what's your solution to the problem? Should we give the land back? In fact, should we just give it back to the Indians and all move back to Western Europe. Thant presents a whole new set of problems. The issue was over the "humane" killing of animals for sport. My posit is that there is no "humane" way. I also made the point that it was our fault, not the fault of the animals, that their habitat was taken. There's no single solution, but what we should consider is a halt, wherever possible, to the destruction of remaining habitat. Reality has to fit into your perception of what is right and wrong. I'm not a big hunter but I'm a realist. And I don't see the difference btween eating venison and eating beef, chicken, pork, or store bought salmon. They all die pretty much the same way. I make no claim that buying packaged beef is higher-minded than shooting it for sport, although I do maintain there is no "sport" in hunting. And you being a avid fisherman, I'm surprised to hear that you practice strictly "catch and release". What about the poor crabs in those crabcakes that you love? What an untimely death to be thrown into a cauldron of boiling water. Shame on you. Barry That wasn't my point, Barry. -- Email sent to is never read. |
See you all in the spring....
Harry Krause wrote: If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. What drivel from someone who fishes. You really are schizo. -- Charlie ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
See you all in the spring....
If you really care about losing natural habitat, I recommend you burn your
house, turn the land over to a trust to preserve the land as a park, and then move into the city. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... F330 GT wrote: Harry wrote: In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry If I were a deer, I'd prefer NOT to be shot. Period. There is no such thing as "humane" hunting or fishing if, in the end, you kill the critter. I understand how we humans like to use softer language to make our slaughter of the animals we hunt or fish sound better but killing is killing is killing. In most cases, the land can no longer support the critters because we have encroached upon the land, or have killed off all the "natural" predators. In other words, if there are too many deer in an area, it isn't because the deer just copulate all day. It is because we have destroyed their habitat and the room they used to have for free roam isn't there anymore. We have deer wandering through our property all the time, and the property of our neighbors. We're in a "hunter free" zone, and so far, we are not overpopulated with deer. Once or twice a month, a deer and a car have an unfortunate encounter out on the county roads, and the deer almost always loses. Wish we could establish a "deer crossing" that really was. If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. So Harry, what's your solution to the problem? Should we give the land back? In fact, should we just give it back to the Indians and all move back to Western Europe. Thant presents a whole new set of problems. The issue was over the "humane" killing of animals for sport. My posit is that there is no "humane" way. I also made the point that it was our fault, not the fault of the animals, that their habitat was taken. There's no single solution, but what we should consider is a halt, wherever possible, to the destruction of remaining habitat. Reality has to fit into your perception of what is right and wrong. I'm not a big hunter but I'm a realist. And I don't see the difference btween eating venison and eating beef, chicken, pork, or store bought salmon. They all die pretty much the same way. I make no claim that buying packaged beef is higher-minded than shooting it for sport, although I do maintain there is no "sport" in hunting. And you being a avid fisherman, I'm surprised to hear that you practice strictly "catch and release". What about the poor crabs in those crabcakes that you love? What an untimely death to be thrown into a cauldron of boiling water. Shame on you. Barry That wasn't my point, Barry. -- Email sent to is never read. |
See you all in the spring....
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:24:52 +0000, F330 GT wrote:
Subject: See you all in the spring.... From: thunder Date: 12/13/2003 9:16 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:38:50 +0000, F330 GT wrote: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. I don't have any problems with hunting, but there is more to the equation than curtailing hunting. I live in New Jersey, and the deer population here has exploded. Hunting has not been curtailed, on the contrary, hunters are allowed many does, and several bucks, depending on licenses/permits. Here, the Dept. of Fish & Game manage the herd as a resource, I've heard it argued perhaps too successfully. And you have successfully stated a problem but you haven't suggested a solution. I was trying to make the point, that in this state, the herd is managed for hunting, not that hunting manages the herd. If this state wanted to control the *size* of the herd, and loose the economic benefits of hunting, it would be managed differently. Unfortunately, the human virus has taken up the land and resources that once belonged to the wildlife. Since we are unable to manage our own herds, we must try to successfully manage the animal population. We do this in ways that try to maximize their herds without them encroaching on our lifestyle. Hunting is just one of the ways that we do this. Exactly, hunting is just one of the ways. Unless we are willing to give up our own breeding habits, I guess we are going to have to continue managing theirs. Don't get me wrong, I think hunting has considerable economic and recreational benefits. Today wildlife is more abundant and varied here, than when I was younger. Bear, turkey, beaver, otter, coyote, all have returned, and this in New Jersey. I think hunters, and their dollars, are largely responsible. |
See you all in the spring....
F330 GT wrote:
Harry wrote: In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Nature does many things which, to people driven by emotion, looks cruel and inhumane. But it makes perfect sense from a ecosystem standpoint. The weak and frail become food for the next in the food chain. The strong survive and are allowed to proliferate. Eventually, the species as a whole evolves, as the gradual genetic improvements become more integrated into the general population. Dave |
See you all in the spring....
Harry Krause wrote:
F330 GT wrote: Harry wrote: In hunting or fishing, there is no such thing as "humanely" killing your catch. If you were a deer, which would you prefer: 1. Dying of starvation or disease as the population grows out of control and the land can no longer support the herd. This happens quite often when hunting is severely curtailed. 2. Ending up as a hood ormament on the front of a speeding car. Also a major problem in some areas where the heards are too large. 3. A quick shot to the heart. Nature doesn't provide animals or fish with many humane choices for death. Most don't die of old age like humans. Barry If I were a deer, I'd prefer NOT to be shot. Period. There is no such thing as "humane" hunting or fishing if, in the end, you kill the critter. I understand how we humans like to use softer language to make our slaughter of the animals we hunt or fish sound better but killing is killing is killing. In most cases, the land can no longer support the critters because we have encroached upon the land, or have killed off all the "natural" predators. So then we become the "surrogate" predator. So again, which is preferable, dead by a hunter's bullet, of mauled to death by a mountain lion. In other words, if there are too many deer in an area, it isn't because the deer just copulate all day. It is because we have destroyed their habitat and the room they used to have for free roam isn't there anymore. So by hunting, we assume the role of the predator, to keep the deer population in balance. We have deer wandering through our property all the time, and the property of our neighbors. We're in a "hunter free" zone, and so far, we are not overpopulated with deer. Once or twice a month, a deer and a car have an unfortunate encounter out on the county roads, and the deer almost always loses. Wish we could establish a "deer crossing" that really was. If you want to hunt "humanely," then use a camera. More "compassion"? When your car becomes the next "victim" of a deer crossing, you might think twice about letting the deer population grow unchecked. Dave |
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