I did the pressure test today. Filled the engine with water, closed the
cooling system and eliminated manifolds from the loop. Then applied 20 psi
pressure to the cooling system (water jacket). It held easily for 20 min. no
change (twice). The pressure dropped sligthly when I was cranking the engine
with plugs out while keeping cooling sys. pressurized.. Spoke with a local
rebuilder that suggested the above while canking the engine and watching for
water appearing in cylinders (coming out of plug sockets), crankcase or
elsewhere. Drained the oil and watched for water dripping from underneath.
Nada. Filled both manifolds (with raisers) with water to look for leaks.
None. I guess that I got to check them under pressure.
In summary, no obvious leaks. There may be some (tiny) there that might show
if the engine is warm. That would be my next step I guess. As advised here I
built a tool for pressure testing using a piece of plastic 3/4 inch pipe,
plastic screw-on cap and a tire valve that I installed in a cap. Worked
great. Used a small compressor (tire type) to apply pressure and since its
gauge was constanlty showing pressure changes I knew exactly what's
happening. Despite that there's no pregress locating the leak. Any ideas?


"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message


Why? All you need is a non-relieving cap with 1/4" nipple, available
at NAPA for less than $10, a low pressure gauge, and your air
compressor, even the little tiny ones will work.

I am not sure how you would make that tool. It wouldn't be hard to drill a
clearance hole in the outer bracket of the radiator cap. The pipe, as you
describe, would probably fit down the center of the pressure relief spring
okay. What I don't see is how you fasten the pipe to the seal surface
without destroying the sealing surface and/or gasket and make sure that it
doesn't become a source of leaks.

Since he would need to be jury-rigging the closed loop system he could
just
simply not use a radiator cap. Simply close the system with a pair of
hose
barbs fitted into regular old pipe. With a Tee and some reducer bushings
you could arrange for a tire valve and pressure guage with ease.

Just be real careful with the pressure if you don't have the pressure
relief
of the radiator cap. I would recommend a hand pump instead of an air
compressor.

Rod

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:19:57 -0400, "Paul" wrote:

I did the pressure test today. Filled the engine with water, closed the
cooling system and eliminated manifolds from the loop. Then applied 20 psi
pressure to the cooling system (water jacket). It held easily for 20 min. no
change (twice). The pressure dropped sligthly when I was cranking the engine
with plugs out while keeping cooling sys. pressurized.. Spoke with a local
rebuilder that suggested the above while canking the engine and watching for
water appearing in cylinders (coming out of plug sockets), crankcase or
elsewhere. Drained the oil and watched for water dripping from underneath.
Nada. Filled both manifolds (with raisers) with water to look for leaks.
None. I guess that I got to check them under pressure.
In summary, no obvious leaks. There may be some (tiny) there that might show
if the engine is warm. That would be my next step I guess. As advised here I
built a tool for pressure testing using a piece of plastic 3/4 inch pipe,
plastic screw-on cap and a tire valve that I installed in a cap. Worked
great. Used a small compressor (tire type) to apply pressure and since its
gauge was constanlty showing pressure changes I knew exactly what's
happening. Despite that there's no pregress locating the leak. Any ideas?

Gasket maybe? I don't think a head gasket, but maybe a water pump?

That's a head scratcher, I agree.

Later,

Tom

Even though I thought that it is least probable, I have to say that leaking
manifolds/raisers (when hot and under pressure) would be the most likely
explanation. Now I need to figure out how to test them properly.
One last thing to do would be to pressure test the engine agaiin when hot.
My initial intake theory seem to appear less likely now although still not
impossible, not yet. It's really getting annoying



"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:19:57 -0400, "Paul" wrote:

I did the pressure test today. Filled the engine with water, closed the
cooling system and eliminated manifolds from the loop. Then applied 20
psi
pressure to the cooling system (water jacket). It held easily for 20 min.
no
change (twice). The pressure dropped sligthly when I was cranking the
engine
with plugs out while keeping cooling sys. pressurized.. Spoke with a
local
rebuilder that suggested the above while canking the engine and watching
for
water appearing in cylinders (coming out of plug sockets), crankcase or
elsewhere. Drained the oil and watched for water dripping from
underneath.
Nada. Filled both manifolds (with raisers) with water to look for leaks.
None. I guess that I got to check them under pressure.
In summary, no obvious leaks. There may be some (tiny) there that might
show
if the engine is warm. That would be my next step I guess. As advised
here I
built a tool for pressure testing using a piece of plastic 3/4 inch pipe,
plastic screw-on cap and a tire valve that I installed in a cap. Worked
great. Used a small compressor (tire type) to apply pressure and since
its
gauge was constanlty showing pressure changes I knew exactly what's
happening. Despite that there's no pregress locating the leak. Any ideas?

Gasket maybe? I don't think a head gasket, but maybe a water pump?

That's a head scratcher, I agree.

Later,

Tom

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:36:59 -0400, "Paul" wrote:

Even though I thought that it is least probable, I have to say that leaking
manifolds/raisers (when hot and under pressure) would be the most likely
explanation. Now I need to figure out how to test them properly.
One last thing to do would be to pressure test the engine agaiin when hot.
My initial intake theory seem to appear less likely now although still not
impossible, not yet. It's really getting annoying

I totally understand. I went through something similar last year with
a family member - ignition problem which took forever to find.

Annoying as hell. I mean, it's only fuel, air, spark right? :)

Good luck.

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

if your engine has seen any salt water service definately check your
risers and manifolds. typically 5 year old risers/manifolds need
replacement in salt water environments. manifolds are easy to check,
doing similar to your engine cooling system check, however just use
hose pressure, after plating the area the riser bolts on, then
visually inspecting the exhaust ports for water. if the manifold
checks out and the engine checks out like it has it must be your
risers or you are taking water in thru the exhausts due to
missing/broken flappers in the y pipe.





"Paul" wrote in message ...
I did the pressure test today. Filled the engine with water, closed the
cooling system and eliminated manifolds from the loop. Then applied 20 psi
pressure to the cooling system (water jacket). It held easily for 20 min. no
change (twice). The pressure dropped sligthly when I was cranking the engine
with plugs out while keeping cooling sys. pressurized.. Spoke with a local
rebuilder that suggested the above while canking the engine and watching for
water appearing in cylinders (coming out of plug sockets), crankcase or
elsewhere. Drained the oil and watched for water dripping from underneath.
Nada. Filled both manifolds (with raisers) with water to look for leaks.
None. I guess that I got to check them under pressure.
In summary, no obvious leaks. There may be some (tiny) there that might show
if the engine is warm. That would be my next step I guess. As advised here I
built a tool for pressure testing using a piece of plastic 3/4 inch pipe,
plastic screw-on cap and a tire valve that I installed in a cap. Worked
great. Used a small compressor (tire type) to apply pressure and since its
gauge was constanlty showing pressure changes I knew exactly what's
happening. Despite that there's no pregress locating the leak. Any ideas?


"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message


Why? All you need is a non-relieving cap with 1/4" nipple, available
at NAPA for less than $10, a low pressure gauge, and your air
compressor, even the little tiny ones will work.

I am not sure how you would make that tool. It wouldn't be hard to drill a
clearance hole in the outer bracket of the radiator cap. The pipe, as you
describe, would probably fit down the center of the pressure relief spring
okay. What I don't see is how you fasten the pipe to the seal surface
without destroying the sealing surface and/or gasket and make sure that it
doesn't become a source of leaks.

Since he would need to be jury-rigging the closed loop system he could
just
simply not use a radiator cap. Simply close the system with a pair of
hose
barbs fitted into regular old pipe. With a Tee and some reducer bushings
you could arrange for a tire valve and pressure guage with ease.

Just be real careful with the pressure if you don't have the pressure
relief
of the radiator cap. I would recommend a hand pump instead of an air
compressor.

Rod

"Paul" wrote in message ...
I did the pressure test today. Filled the engine with water, closed the
cooling system and eliminated manifolds from the loop. Then applied 20 psi
pressure to the cooling system (water jacket). It held easily for 20 min. no
change (twice). The pressure dropped sligthly when I was cranking the engine
with plugs out while keeping cooling sys. pressurized.. Spoke with a local
rebuilder that suggested the above while canking the engine and watching for
water appearing in cylinders (coming out of plug sockets), crankcase or
elsewhere. Drained the oil and watched for water dripping from underneath.
Nada. Filled both manifolds (with raisers) with water to look for leaks.
None. I guess that I got to check them under pressure.
In summary, no obvious leaks. There may be some (tiny) there that might show
if the engine is warm. That would be my next step I guess. As advised here I
built a tool for pressure testing using a piece of plastic 3/4 inch pipe,
plastic screw-on cap and a tire valve that I installed in a cap. Worked
great. Used a small compressor (tire type) to apply pressure and since its
gauge was constanlty showing pressure changes I knew exactly what's
happening. Despite that there's no pregress locating the leak. Any ideas?

Years ago in Popular Mechanics or Mechanix Illustrated there was an
auto repair genius who had monthly stories that solved conundrums such
as yours. In one story he described a pressure testing device where he
broke the porcelan off an old spark plug and brazed a tire valve onto
it. He would screw it into a cylinder and put some air to it and #1,
listen at the exhaust pipe for leaky exhaust valves, #2,listen in the
carburator for leaky intake valves, #3, listen at the crankase
breather tube for leaky rings, #4, look in the radiator for bubbles
indicating a bad head gasket.I don't know if this would help you at
all but from what I can follow in this saga of your's you've only
applied 20# of pressure to the cooling system "in general" to the
outside of the cylinders and maybe if you can apply 100#+ pressure to
each cylinder "specifically" from the inside it might narrow down your
search as to "where" the problem is and might give some clue as to
"what" the problem is. If you ever do find out what the problem is, be
sure to post it.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..


I totally understand. I went through something similar last year with
a family member - ignition problem which took forever to find.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom


Too much bran? :o)

Just finished testing the manifolds. The rebuilder I spoke with suggested
attaching a water hose to manifold cooling water inlet and letting the water
run through manifold raiser. Did as advised and no single drop of water
spotted. Even though the boat has seen salt water raiser/manifold duo is
holding up. I have not plated the manifold as I expected to see at least
some localized "sweating" that would indicate leak potential. Don't know if
I should be happy or not. Assuming the manifolds are OK I'm back to the
engine troubleshooting. What puzzles me is that water is present in all
cylinders as well as crankcase. Cylinders are flooded with substantial
amount of water (1-4 oz. with most in the middle cyl. on both sides. Last
time I changed the oil I had about 2 qt. of water (wow!). This is must be
some leak...(!). I'm slowly loosing my mind.(and patience). Suggestions?




"BenC" wrote in message
om...
if your engine has seen any salt water service definately check your
risers and manifolds. typically 5 year old risers/manifolds need
replacement in salt water environments. manifolds are easy to check,
doing similar to your engine cooling system check, however just use
hose pressure, after plating the area the riser bolts on, then
visually inspecting the exhaust ports for water. if the manifold
checks out and the engine checks out like it has it must be your
risers or you are taking water in thru the exhausts due to
missing/broken flappers in the y pipe.





"Paul" wrote in message
...
I did the pressure test today. Filled the engine with water, closed the
cooling system and eliminated manifolds from the loop. Then applied 20
psi
pressure to the cooling system (water jacket). It held easily for 20
min. no
change (twice). The pressure dropped sligthly when I was cranking the
engine
with plugs out while keeping cooling sys. pressurized.. Spoke with a
local
rebuilder that suggested the above while canking the engine and watching
for
water appearing in cylinders (coming out of plug sockets), crankcase or
elsewhere. Drained the oil and watched for water dripping from
underneath.
Nada. Filled both manifolds (with raisers) with water to look for leaks.
None. I guess that I got to check them under pressure.
In summary, no obvious leaks. There may be some (tiny) there that might
show
if the engine is warm. That would be my next step I guess. As advised
here I
built a tool for pressure testing using a piece of plastic 3/4 inch
pipe,
plastic screw-on cap and a tire valve that I installed in a cap. Worked
great. Used a small compressor (tire type) to apply pressure and since
its
gauge was constanlty showing pressure changes I knew exactly what's
happening. Despite that there's no pregress locating the leak. Any
ideas?


"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message


Why? All you need is a non-relieving cap with 1/4" nipple, available
at NAPA for less than $10, a low pressure gauge, and your air
compressor, even the little tiny ones will work.

I am not sure how you would make that tool. It wouldn't be hard to
drill a
clearance hole in the outer bracket of the radiator cap. The pipe, as
you
describe, would probably fit down the center of the pressure relief
spring
okay. What I don't see is how you fasten the pipe to the seal surface
without destroying the sealing surface and/or gasket and make sure
that it
doesn't become a source of leaks.

Since he would need to be jury-rigging the closed loop system he could
just
simply not use a radiator cap. Simply close the system with a pair of
hose
barbs fitted into regular old pipe. With a Tee and some reducer
bushings
you could arrange for a tire valve and pressure guage with ease.

Just be real careful with the pressure if you don't have the pressure
relief
of the radiator cap. I would recommend a hand pump instead of an air
compressor.

Rod

Let me guess, ignition module?

"Sam" wrote in message
om...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
. ..


I totally understand. I went through something similar last year with
a family member - ignition problem which took forever to find.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom


Too much bran? :o)

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:25:22 -0400, "Paul" wrote:

Let me guess, ignition module?

Two of them - back-to-back. First one failed, replaced it with a new
one, that one failed within two runs.

Unbelievable. :)

Later,

Tom