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SPAMMER Blacklist

This week's list of EMAIL SPAMMERs. If your ISP is on this list, you
cannot send me EMAIL.

3796

webrobot@*

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Harry, I don't know how you developed this list, but I suspect it was
by compiling the From: tags in spam. Most of those are fake anyway,
and there's nothing wrong with those ISPs anti-spam policy.

A fairly simple solution to the spam problem is to install Mozilla and use
the spam filter in its mail reader. It works quite well, especially after
a little simple training: if it misses one (false negative) or marks something
spam that isn't (false positive) one mouse click
corrects both the immediate problem and retrains the filter.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message ...
This week's list of EMAIL SPAMMERs. If your ISP is on this list, you
cannot send me EMAIL.

3796

webrobot@*

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Chuck Tribolet wrote:

Harry, I don't know how you developed this list, but I suspect it was
by compiling the From: tags in spam. Most of those are fake anyway,
and there's nothing wrong with those ISPs anti-spam policy.

A fairly simple solution to the spam problem is to install Mozilla and use
the spam filter in its mail reader. It works quite well, especially after
a little simple training: if it misses one (false negative) or marks something
spam that isn't (false positive) one mouse click
corrects both the immediate problem and retrains the filter.

I use Mailwasher, Chuck. Blacklists the crap before it gets to my
Mozilla. I never even see it.

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 07:35:59 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

Harry, I don't know how you developed this list, but I suspect it was
by compiling the From: tags in spam. Most of those are fake anyway,
and there's nothing wrong with those ISPs anti-spam policy.

A fairly simple solution to the spam problem is to install Mozilla and use
the spam filter in its mail reader. It works quite well, especially after
a little simple training: if it misses one (false negative) or marks something
spam that isn't (false positive) one mouse click
corrects both the immediate problem and retrains the filter.

Because spam is such a moving target, no one approach is going to. Blacklists,
filters and blackhole lists are all helpful, but no one approach will do the
trick.

I've been a mostly happy Mailwasher user for the last several months. Here are
my spam stats for this past week:

Filters: 8,739
RBL lists: 2,745
Blacklist: 1,524

My mail has been consistently 90% spam.

Although Mailwasher either flags or deletes the mail from the server before I
download it, there is still always the risk of false positives. I had
Mailwasher delete spam without my intervention for about a week, but discovered
I was losing legitimate mail. For me, that's the real outrage about spam.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

Mozilla is user-trainable, so the moving target isn't a problem. When it
misses one, you just mark it as spam, Mozilla gets retrained a little, and
it gets dropped in the Junk folder.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 07:35:59 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

Harry, I don't know how you developed this list, but I suspect it was
by compiling the From: tags in spam. Most of those are fake anyway,
and there's nothing wrong with those ISPs anti-spam policy.

A fairly simple solution to the spam problem is to install Mozilla and use
the spam filter in its mail reader. It works quite well, especially after
a little simple training: if it misses one (false negative) or marks something
spam that isn't (false positive) one mouse click
corrects both the immediate problem and retrains the filter.

Because spam is such a moving target, no one approach is going to. Blacklists,
filters and blackhole lists are all helpful, but no one approach will do the
trick.

I've been a mostly happy Mailwasher user for the last several months. Here are
my spam stats for this past week:

Filters: 8,739
RBL lists: 2,745
Blacklist: 1,524

My mail has been consistently 90% spam.

Although Mailwasher either flags or deletes the mail from the server before I
download it, there is still always the risk of false positives. I had
Mailwasher delete spam without my intervention for about a week, but discovered
I was losing legitimate mail. For me, that's the real outrage about spam.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:25:32 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

Mozilla is user-trainable, so the moving target isn't a problem. When it
misses one, you just mark it as spam, Mozilla gets retrained a little, and
it gets dropped in the Junk folder.

Sure--but if you have to be continually retraining your mail client, it kind of
defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Ultimately, the only solution to spam is for it to be no longer profitable for
the spammers--that people stop responding ot it.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

It's about 97% effective, which means I get about five false positives a day
that require one mouse click each to retrain for.

That's five mouse clicks to make the rest vanish.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:25:32 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

Mozilla is user-trainable, so the moving target isn't a problem. When it
misses one, you just mark it as spam, Mozilla gets retrained a little, and
it gets dropped in the Junk folder.

Sure--but if you have to be continually retraining your mail client, it kind of
defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Ultimately, the only solution to spam is for it to be no longer profitable for
the spammers--that people stop responding ot it.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply
because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Try using a form mail script instead of a harvestable email address on your
webpage.

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:14:29 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote:

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:25:32 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

Mozilla is user-trainable, so the moving target isn't a problem. When it
misses one, you just mark it as spam, Mozilla gets retrained a little, and
it gets dropped in the Junk folder.

Sure--but if you have to be continually retraining your mail client, it kind of
defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Ultimately, the only solution to spam is for it to be no longer profitable for
the spammers--that people stop responding ot it.

Joe Parsons

The problem is bigger than that, Joe. Much of the Spam that any
address receives is generated by random address engines. They sit and
spin 24 hours a day, sending spam-mail to every conceivable address.

Additionally, if you make one mistake, email one harvestable database,
you are forever "locked". The only out is to munge headers, or change
your address. It sucks, but that's life.

The change-able:
Regards,
noah

To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
....as you were. :o)

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:21:46 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
.. .

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply
because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Try using a form mail script instead of a harvestable email address on your
webpage.

I get very little spam to the address on my web page.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

-- Chuck Tribolet
http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet Silicon Valley: STILL the
best day job in the world. "Joe Parsons" wrote in
message ...

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:25:32 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Mozilla is user-trainable, so the moving target isn't a problem.
When it
misses one, you just mark it as spam, Mozilla gets retrained a
little, and
it gets dropped in the Junk folder.

Sure--but if you have to be continually retraining your mail client,
it kind of
defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of
spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me
simply because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Ultimately, the only solution to spam is for it to be no longer
profitable for
the spammers--that people stop responding ot it.

Joe Parsons

The problem there is that some of the spammers aren't spamming their
product. They're spamming you with other peoples products so that you
don't buy from them, and you buy from their competitor who is the
actuall spammer.

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:26:02 -0500, John P Reber
wrote:

[snip]

Ultimately, the only solution to spam is for it to be no longer
profitable for
the spammers--that people stop responding ot it.

Joe Parsons

The problem there is that some of the spammers aren't spamming their
product. They're spamming you with other peoples products so that you
don't buy from them, and you buy from their competitor who is the
actuall spammer.

That's true. You have two tiers of spam: those who are hawking their own stuff,
and those who are selling a spamming service to people who don't know any
better. I suspect the latter group (the big spamhauses) are larger. While they
make their money by selling their "services" to ignorant merchants, if the word
were to get out that spamming simply doesn't work as a marketing approach, then
their market would dry up.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

That's true. You have two tiers of spam: those who are hawking their own stuff,
and those who are selling a spamming service to people who don't know any
better. I suspect the latter group (the big spamhauses) are larger. While they
make their money by selling their "services" to ignorant merchants, if the word
were to get out that spamming simply doesn't work as a marketing approach, then
their market would dry up.

If only that WERE true! Any merchant who doesn't know by now that spam
is unwelcome would have to be more than just ignorant...he'd have to
either be brain dead or live in vacuum where computers don't exist.
Unfortunately, spam is a very cheap form of advertising--so cheap that a
return of 1% or less makes it profitable for the spammer AND his merchant.

The anti-spam legislation just passed by Congress sounds good, but in
fact will be totally ineffective...because spammers will simply move
offshore where they aren't affected by any US laws prohibiting the
sending of it...in fact, at least half of it now originates from
offshore. And a national "no spam" list will only give 'em lists of good
email addresses. About all it will accomplish will be to discourage
legimate US businesses from using spam as an advertising medium.

The real solution IMO would be to require ISPs to block all incoming
email to more than 10 addresses from the same sender.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:57:14 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote:

That's true. You have two tiers of spam: those who are hawking their own stuff,
and those who are selling a spamming service to people who don't know any
better. I suspect the latter group (the big spamhauses) are larger. While they
make their money by selling their "services" to ignorant merchants, if the word
were to get out that spamming simply doesn't work as a marketing approach, then
their market would dry up.

If only that WERE true! Any merchant who doesn't know by now that spam
is unwelcome would have to be more than just ignorant...he'd have to
either be brain dead or live in vacuum where computers don't exist.

....or he'd have to be susceptible to the sales pitch from some spamhaus.

P.T. was right, after all...

Unfortunately, spam is a very cheap form of advertising--so cheap that a
return of 1% or less makes it profitable for the spammer AND his merchant.

Well, let me put it into perspective. I use direct mail (snail) quite a lot in
my business. My cost is around $400.00 per thousand pieces mailed. If I get a
1% response, I dance in the streets! That gives me a cost-per-lead of $40.00.
As it happens, I get a response approaching .75%. Compare that with a spammer
who sends out 30 *million* letters, charging his suck...uh, client $1,000 for
that "service." Depending on what the guy is selling, the response percentages
can be very, very small to generate a profit.

The anti-spam legislation just passed by Congress sounds good, but in
fact will be totally ineffective...because spammers will simply move
offshore where they aren't affected by any US laws prohibiting the
sending of it...in fact, at least half of it now originates from
offshore. And a national "no spam" list will only give 'em lists of good
email addresses. About all it will accomplish will be to discourage
legimate US businesses from using spam as an advertising medium.

The real solution IMO would be to require ISPs to block all incoming
email to more than 10 addresses from the same sender.

That would be one solution, but keep in mind that the spammers don't use a
traditional ISP. In many cases they're hijacking someone else's open mail
relay.

Joe Parsons

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of
spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply
because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Try using a form mail script instead of a harvestable email address on
your
webpage.

I get very little spam to the address on my web page.

If so, you're doing something else very wrong, or have ****ed someone off
pretty bad to receive 1,000 spam emails a day.
I would still use a form mail script on your webpage before robots harvest
your email address. There are free ones available.

They will eventually harvest your email address from your webpage, why wait
for them to do so?

SPAMMER Blacklist

"Joe" wrote in message ...
"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of
spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply
because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Try using a form mail script instead of a harvestable email address on
your
webpage.

I get very little spam to the address on my web page.

If so, you're doing something else very wrong, or have ****ed someone off
pretty bad to receive 1,000 spam emails a day.

Not really, we have business addresses that get 4000 a day, they have
been around for many years and being business addresses, have been in
many a harvested personal address book in Outlook and such. But on the
other hand, the "blacklist" that Harry posted it useless. Attacking
the from field is not the way to go, you must go for the money. Attack
the entity that is going to benefit from the spam, or the product
itself. This is best done by addressing information in the body of the
message. Spammers are getting better so blocking 50 versions of v1agra
won't do either. What we have been doing lately is attacking the
snippets of code that the spammers use to disquise the words, in the
html. For instance, we have a limit set on how many "comment" commands
are acceptable, if there are more than the alloted number, it is
assumed to be hiding something, it is bounced. Of course the number is
somewhat high, so some still gets through. It takes a lot of work to
really address spam. We use filters on our e-mail clients, server wide
protection that my partner writes, and another program developed by
another partner which can be activated and managed by individual
account, and allowes filtering based on code, not just words and
phrases. I still see 40 to 50 spams a day, but that is manageable.
Another good thing is to use throwaway emails and contact forms on
webpages that do not allow robots to harvest your email address.
Scotty
I would still use a form mail script on your webpage before robots harvest
your email address. There are free ones available.

They will eventually harvest your email address from your webpage, why wait
for them to do so?

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:57:14 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

The real solution IMO would be to require ISPs to block all incoming
email to more than 10 addresses from the same sender.

They already do something like that. The result is
"spam guns" that send spam in batches that don't trigger
those limits.

I support the death penalty for spammers.
Steal six million minutes from as many individuals
and I assert that society has the right to exact
those six million minutes from the life of the
spammer. Two or three batches and it's a death penalty.

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:52:49 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
.. .

My situation may be a tad different, because of the sheer volume of
spam I
receive (close to 1,000 a day). Filters alone won't work for me simply
because
so many of the spammers are developing countermesures to evade them.

Try using a form mail script instead of a harvestable email address on
your
webpage.

I get very little spam to the address on my web page.

If so, you're doing something else very wrong, or have ****ed someone off
pretty bad to receive 1,000 spam emails a day.
I would still use a form mail script on your webpage before robots harvest
your email address. There are free ones available.

Well, for starters, being quite visible on Usenet for a decade and a half might
have something to do with it...

They will eventually harvest your email address from your webpage, why wait
for them to do so?

Spammers don't harvest only from web pages.

I use many different usernames. This gives me the ability to source mail I get.
So if, for instance, I use an address in rec.boats like
" and suddenly discover spam coming to that address, I
can be certain that this address was harvested from this newsgroup. Over the
last five years or so, I'd say I've used several dozen different usernames--all
pointing to my news server.

I still get spam to addresses that I have not used for close to ten years. This
tells me that the name has been resold or traded.

But my websites get such modest traffic that I can be quite sure it's not a
significant source of spam for me.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

Backyard Renegade wrote:
But on the
other hand, the "blacklist" that Harry posted it useless. Attacking
the from field is not the way to go, you must go for the money.

My goal is to lower the amount of email spam I get. If I get more than a
couple of spams from an ISP, I blacklist it and the spam from that ISP
stops. Ergo, my method works. And I do check the filter log from time to
time to set what's in there. Lots of SPAM from such lovely irresponsible
sites as JUNO.

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Peter W. Meek wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:57:14 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

The real solution IMO would be to require ISPs to block all incoming
email to more than 10 addresses from the same sender.

They already do something like that. The result is
"spam guns" that send spam in batches that don't trigger
those limits.

I support the death penalty for spammers.
Steal six million minutes from as many individuals
and I assert that society has the right to exact
those six million minutes from the life of the
spammer. Two or three batches and it's a death penalty.

Or have to sit quietly in a chair while George W. Bush tries to read
aloud from a page of an adult version of The Tale of Two Cities without
fumbling a word.

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Harry, I gotta say this again until you understand it:

Most of the From: addresses in spam are complete bull****. Either they
are completely false, or they are someone who has ****ed off the spam
industry. There are lots of legit folks on juno, yahoo, etc., so you
are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I used to do a variation on what you do. About once a month I'd
review recent spam, and blacklist the obvious IDs and ISPs, but
not blacklist the large ISPs (juno, yahoo, etc.) which were bound
to have a certain amount of "misuse". A year ago, this, plus a couple
of other simple rules were about 70 percent effective. By about
three months ago, it had dropped to 50% effective and the increasing
volume of spam (I get 150 a day) had greatly increased the amount
of work required to analyze it. I switched to Mozilla, and within a week
of training (which was less work than my analysis of that week would
have been), it was 95% effective.

Try Mozilla, turn on the spam filter, you'll like it, I guarantee it.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message ...
Backyard Renegade wrote:
But on the
other hand, the "blacklist" that Harry posted it useless. Attacking
the from field is not the way to go, you must go for the money.

My goal is to lower the amount of email spam I get. If I get more than a
couple of spams from an ISP, I blacklist it and the spam from that ISP
stops. Ergo, my method works. And I do check the filter log from time to
time to set what's in there. Lots of SPAM from such lovely irresponsible
sites as JUNO.

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Peggie, that wouldn't work. The spamsters have taken to infecting peoples
computers with a virus that turns the computer into a very quiet robot
for the spamsters. That allows them to send huge volumes of
individual e-mails. A year and a half ago, a simple rule that said
"if I'm not in the "to:" list and it's not from a few mailing lists I'm on,
IT'S SPAM" was pretty effective. It's very ineffective now.

Furthermore, if it's sent BCC, the ISP doesn't get to see the other
senders and can't count them.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message ...
The real solution IMO would be to require ISPs to block all incoming
email to more than 10 addresses from the same sender.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Actually, what's more likely is that some redneck is going to get
****ed off at what was sent to his kid, and track the SOB down
and blow him away. I don't agree with doing this, but I think
it's highly likely to happen.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peter W. Meek" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:57:14 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

The real solution IMO would be to require ISPs to block all incoming
email to more than 10 addresses from the same sender.

They already do something like that. The result is
"spam guns" that send spam in batches that don't trigger
those limits.

I support the death penalty for spammers.
Steal six million minutes from as many individuals
and I assert that society has the right to exact
those six million minutes from the life of the
spammer. Two or three batches and it's a death penalty.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Harry, I gotta say this again until you understand it:

Most of the From: addresses in spam are complete bull****. Either they
are completely false, or they are someone who has ****ed off the spam
industry.

Does that include spam from such domain names as fantasticoffers.com,
doodlebug.com, quakefest.com, slamdunk.com, spyvalues.com (all real,
btw)...other domains that include the words sex, special, bargain,
mortgage, offer, bargain, bingo, casino...and at least 100 others?

I don't think so...'cuz spam from senders using these return addresses
IS bounce-able, which means they're real. But if it does, I don't
care...because, whether they sent THIS spam or not, they're still
spammers...and deserve to buried under so much returned mail that their
servers explode.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist Catch 'em with Spamcop

Harry,
Let me help you out with a free service.

www.spamcop.net

Capt. Frank

Harry Krause wrote:
This week's list of EMAIL SPAMMERs. If your ISP is on this list, you
cannot send me EMAIL.

3796

webrobot@*

SPAMMER Blacklist

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Peggie, that wouldn't work. The spamsters have taken to infecting peoples
computers with a virus that turns the computer into a very quiet robot
for the spamsters.

Ok...but trust me, the technology DOES exist that would allow ISPs to
figure out to block spam before it gets to their users' mailboxes. It
will cost them $$ to develop it, which means it will prob'ly take
legislation to make 'em do it. And that's a real shame...'cuz that only
means that all the ISPs' talk about blocking spam is nothing more than
talk. Yahoo doesn't even block incoming spam from spammers using
spoofed Yahoo addresses...but how hard can it be to match return
addresses on incoming mail against your own bloomin' account list and
block all that doesn't match an existing account??

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Harry, I gotta say this again until you understand it:

Most of the From: addresses in spam are complete bull****. Either they
are completely false, or they are someone who has ****ed off the spam
industry. There are lots of legit folks on juno, yahoo, etc., so you
are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Chuck...no one I know uses the offending ISPs. If there were someone,
I'd either *except" them as a friend, in which case their email
would get through, or I'd set up a particular filter that would let them
pass.

Try Mozilla, turn on the spam filter, you'll like it, I guarantee it.

I use Mozilla. I'll try the spam filter.

--
Email sent to is never read.

SPAMMER Blacklist

Yes, there are some domain names that you can figure out are
spamsters. Unfortunately, they are a quickly shrinking fraction. A year ago,
that worked. It doesn't work today. Here's an analysis of the From:
in the I've received since about 11/26. The number on the left of spams
I've received that purported to be From: the domain on the right.
1977 spams in a couple of weeks. Do the math -- black listing doesn't
work. But try the Mozilla spam filter -- it really does.

I have not relationship to Mozilla other than being a VERY happy user.

210 yahoo.com
95 hotmail.com
87 msn.com
74 aol.com
33 co.uk
27 garlic.com
19 com.tw
18 bluerocketonline.com
18 juno.com
16 excite.com
15 dbhits.com
14 earthlink.net
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--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message ...

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Harry, I gotta say this again until you understand it:

Most of the From: addresses in spam are complete bull****. Either they
are completely false, or they are someone who has ****ed off the spam
industry.

Does that include spam from such domain names as fantasticoffers.com,
doodlebug.com, quakefest.com, slamdunk.com, spyvalues.com (all real,
btw)...other domains that include the words sex, special, bargain,
mortgage, offer, bargain, bingo, casino...and at least 100 others?

I don't think so...'cuz spam from senders using these return addresses
IS bounce-able, which means they're real. But if it does, I don't
care...because, whether they sent THIS spam or not, they're still
spammers...and deserve to buried under so much returned mail that their
servers explode.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

The technology exists, and is ALREADY developed. The problem is that it
costs (except for Mozilla). You may well be able to
buy the support from your ISP. One vendor to the ISPs is Brightmail (my employer
filters mail from the internet with it, and it works pretty well.) I could pay
my ISP $10 per month and they would filter it with Brightmail or something
similar, but the FREE filter built into Mozilla works REALLY well.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message ...
Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Peggie, that wouldn't work. The spamsters have taken to infecting peoples
computers with a virus that turns the computer into a very quiet robot
for the spamsters.

Ok...but trust me, the technology DOES exist that would allow ISPs to
figure out to block spam before it gets to their users' mailboxes. It
will cost them $$ to develop it, which means it will prob'ly take
legislation to make 'em do it. And that's a real shame...'cuz that only
means that all the ISPs' talk about blocking spam is nothing more than
talk. Yahoo doesn't even block incoming spam from spammers using
spoofed Yahoo addresses...but how hard can it be to match return
addresses on incoming mail against your own bloomin' account list and
block all that doesn't match an existing account??

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

K9 is a great spamfilter, actually learns what you consider spam and you
considers good email. It goes way beyond white and black lists.

http://www.keir.net/k9.html

the only negative is it does not work with Hotmail and Yahoo.

"Chuck Tribolet" wrote in message
...
The technology exists, and is ALREADY developed. The problem is that it
costs (except for Mozilla). You may well be able to
buy the support from your ISP. One vendor to the ISPs is Brightmail (my
employer
filters mail from the internet with it, and it works pretty well.) I
could pay
my ISP $10 per month and they would filter it with Brightmail or something
similar, but the FREE filter built into Mozilla works REALLY well.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Peggie, that wouldn't work. The spamsters have taken to infecting
peoples
computers with a virus that turns the computer into a very quiet robot
for the spamsters.

Ok...but trust me, the technology DOES exist that would allow ISPs to
figure out to block spam before it gets to their users' mailboxes. It
will cost them $$ to develop it, which means it will prob'ly take
legislation to make 'em do it. And that's a real shame...'cuz that only
means that all the ISPs' talk about blocking spam is nothing more than
talk. Yahoo doesn't even block incoming spam from spammers using
spoofed Yahoo addresses...but how hard can it be to match return
addresses on incoming mail against your own bloomin' account list and
block all that doesn't match an existing account??

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:37:12 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Yes, there are some domain names that you can figure out are
spamsters. Unfortunately, they are a quickly shrinking fraction. A year ago,
that worked. It doesn't work today. Here's an analysis of the From:
in the I've received since about 11/26. The number on the left of spams
I've received that purported to be From: the domain on the right.
1977 spams in a couple of weeks. Do the math -- black listing doesn't
work. But try the Mozilla spam filter -- it really does.

snipped list

Mozilla does help, so does ISP cooperation like Earthlink Webmail.
Nothing is 100%.

One important factor that most "ISP blockers" are neglecting is that
email addresses can be "spooged". In other words, spammers can send
email which appear to be from *any* email address. I have received
several fraud-mails, asking for "account and credit verification",
which DID NOT come from the address listed. Three of them were
dead-ringers for my ISP account. I forwarded them to my ISP, and they
reported spooged headers. Simply blocking a bunch of domains or ISPs
is like killing all the chickens because you got a rotten egg. You
might as well shut down all your email accounts or, better yet, turn
off the computer. They sure as hell can't get you then! :o)

Repaired my boat cover today. The damage was my own fault. 20" of
wet snow is a bit more than a cover can hold. Gotta' build a shed, or
get one of those "Suburbian Teepees".

Regards,
noah

Off-topic posting is a bit like farting in a house of worship.
Only children, the arrogant, or the ignorant, can truly enjoy it.
Only the arrogant and the ignorant insist on it.

To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
....as you were. :o)

SPAMMER Blacklist

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Yes, there are some domain names that you can figure out are
spamsters. Unfortunately, they are a quickly shrinking fraction. A year ago,
that worked. It doesn't work today. Here's an analysis of the From:
in the I've received since about 11/26.

Your list confirms my experience: yahoo in its various incarnations is
by far the most popular spoofed return address...I wonder why so many of
'em choose it over all the others on your list. I finally just set up
Mailwasher to delete ALL email with a yahoo return address.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

It's "spoofed" not "spooged"

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"noah" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:37:12 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Yes, there are some domain names that you can figure out are
spamsters. Unfortunately, they are a quickly shrinking fraction. A year ago,
that worked. It doesn't work today. Here's an analysis of the From:
in the I've received since about 11/26. The number on the left of spams
I've received that purported to be From: the domain on the right.
1977 spams in a couple of weeks. Do the math -- black listing doesn't
work. But try the Mozilla spam filter -- it really does.

snipped list

Mozilla does help, so does ISP cooperation like Earthlink Webmail.
Nothing is 100%.

One important factor that most "ISP blockers" are neglecting is that
email addresses can be "spooged". In other words, spammers can send
email which appear to be from *any* email address. I have received
several fraud-mails, asking for "account and credit verification",
which DID NOT come from the address listed. Three of them were
dead-ringers for my ISP account. I forwarded them to my ISP, and they
reported spooged headers. Simply blocking a bunch of domains or ISPs
is like killing all the chickens because you got a rotten egg. You
might as well shut down all your email accounts or, better yet, turn
off the computer. They sure as hell can't get you then! :o)

Repaired my boat cover today. The damage was my own fault. 20" of
wet snow is a bit more than a cover can hold. Gotta' build a shed, or
get one of those "Suburbian Teepees".

Regards,
noah

Off-topic posting is a bit like farting in a house of worship.
Only children, the arrogant, or the ignorant, can truly enjoy it.
Only the arrogant and the ignorant insist on it.

To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
...as you were. :o)

SPAMMER Blacklist

The problem is that there are a LOT of legit folks on yahoo.
I've had 16 legit e-mails from yahoo residents in the last two days.
So just blocking everybody on yahoo doesn't work.

Again, try the Mozilla spam blocker. I've been a software nerd for
35 years, and I'm hard to impress. It impressed me.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message ...
Chuck Tribolet wrote:
Yes, there are some domain names that you can figure out are
spamsters. Unfortunately, they are a quickly shrinking fraction. A year ago,
that worked. It doesn't work today. Here's an analysis of the From:
in the I've received since about 11/26.

Your list confirms my experience: yahoo in its various incarnations is
by far the most popular spoofed return address...I wonder why so many of
'em choose it over all the others on your list. I finally just set up
Mailwasher to delete ALL email with a yahoo return address.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:06:38 -0800, "Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

It's "spoofed" not "spooged"

"Spooge" is that yukky stuff in the middle of the freeway that you want to avoid
when you're riding a motorcycle.

Joe Parsons

SPAMMER Blacklist

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
The problem is that there are a LOT of legit folks on yahoo.
I've had 16 legit e-mails from yahoo residents in the last two days.
So just blocking everybody on yahoo doesn't work.

So...it catches a few people who actually have yahoo addresses. But they
also have real email addresses...which they'll have to use if they want
to email me. IMO, the best way to kill off yahoo as the spammers'
favorite spoofed address is to make it impossible for anyone else to
use, forcing 'em to close it. If someone is determined to have a free
anonymous address, there are other services that offer free email
addresses...that don't attract 10% of the spammers that yahoo does.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:16:51 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote:

Chuck Tribolet wrote:
The problem is that there are a LOT of legit folks on yahoo.
I've had 16 legit e-mails from yahoo residents in the last two days.
So just blocking everybody on yahoo doesn't work.

So...it catches a few people who actually have yahoo addresses. But they
also have real email addresses...which they'll have to use if they want
to email me. IMO, the best way to kill off yahoo as the spammers'
favorite spoofed address is to make it impossible for anyone else to
use, forcing 'em to close it. If someone is determined to have a free
anonymous address, there are other services that offer free email
addresses...that don't attract 10% of the spammers that yahoo does.

I suspect those aren't actual Yahoo addresses. The spammers just want to put
something in the sender field.

Joe Parsosn

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

And if you kill off yahoo, the spamsters will pick something else (hotmail, aol, ...)
and you'll be no better off.

I get as much legit e-mail from yahoo.com as I get spam purporting
to be from yahoo.com. The legit stuff is from friends I wouldn't want to
cut off. So a simple "all yahoo.com is spam" blacklist just doesn't work.
Mozilla does.

And for many (most?) of those folks, the "real" e-mail address is a
business address, and they want to have an address that will be constant
across job changes and is not implicitly associated with their employer.
I got the garlic.com address a number of years ago when I had a visible
position with the Northern California Underwater Photographic Society,
and I didn't think it was appropriate for NCUPS stuff to be coming and
going from an IBM.COM e-mail address. I willing paid $20/month for
that separation of address.

And if you look at what I posted, yahoo.com spam is perhaps 15% of
spam. Mozilla catches 95+% (I get 150+ spams a day, Mozilla catches
all but about five or six.)

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message ...
Chuck Tribolet wrote:
The problem is that there are a LOT of legit folks on yahoo.
I've had 16 legit e-mails from yahoo residents in the last two days.
So just blocking everybody on yahoo doesn't work.

So...it catches a few people who actually have yahoo addresses. But they
also have real email addresses...which they'll have to use if they want
to email me. IMO, the best way to kill off yahoo as the spammers'
favorite spoofed address is to make it impossible for anyone else to
use, forcing 'em to close it. If someone is determined to have a free
anonymous address, there are other services that offer free email
addresses...that don't attract 10% of the spammers that yahoo does.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

SPAMMER Blacklist

I suspect those aren't actual Yahoo addresses. The spammers just want to put
something in the sender field.

Yup...and it seems that 90% of 'em choose Yahoo. Yahoo now controls my
ISP's email and news servers, but they can't even be bothered to try to
match up return addresses on incoming mail to their own servers against
their own account list. I'm happy to do my part to put their free email
out of business by blocking all of it, legit AND spoofed. The spoofed
ones aren't bounceable, but if enough people block everything from 'em,
people who do have real yahoo.com email addresses will start complaining
to that their email isn't getting through either.:)

If I had nothing better to do, I wouldn't block spam with spoofed yahoo
addresses, I'd forward every bit of it to yahoo and encourage everyone I
know to do the same. If everyone else is averaging the same 100+ a week
that I get, and were willing to do the same, that would clog up their
system so badly that it would amount to a denial of service
attack...which, since there'd be nothing illegal about it, MIGHT finally
force 'em to do whatever it takes to stop it.

There has to be a reason why yahoo is the most popular spoofed
address...I'd love to know what.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html