"Deep Six" those big old 2 strokes now
 

There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

If you are mechanically inclined and the boat is free, that could be another
story and a hobbyist's dream. For most though it will be a "nightmare".

PS: They might make a good mooring?

--
Bill Kiene

This is either a troll, or the most inane comment I've seen today.

There is though, an active conspiricy amongst the dealers to get these
things off the water. This includes inflated labor rates, inflated parts
costs, and poorly trained service personell who don't know how to work on
them properly.

Since they are so simple to work on... I surely wouldn't take a newer, more
complex, outboard to any shop that couldn't properly troubleshoot or tune up
a 1980 140hp Merc.

-W




"Bill Kiene" wrote in message
m...
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

If you are mechanically inclined and the boat is free, that could be
another
story and a hobbyist's dream. For most though it will be a "nightmare".

PS: They might make a good mooring?

--
Bill Kiene

I'm counting on that.... :)

-W

"Harry Krause" wrote in message

Absurd. there are tens of thousands of strong-running older two cycle
outboards around.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 16:57:31 GMT, "Clams Canino"
wrote:

I'm counting on that.... :)

-W

"Harry Krause" wrote in message

Absurd. there are tens of thousands of strong-running older two cycle
outboards around.

Here's a curiosity question.

What is going to happen with all these older outboards when teh 2006
EPA standards take effect?

Later,

Tom

Subject: "Deep Six" those big old 2 strokes now
From: Short Wave Sportfishing

Here's a curiosity question.

What is going to happen with all these older outboards when teh 2006
EPA standards take effect?


Nothing as I understand it. They're grandfathered in.

Capt. Bill

What is going to happen with all these older outboards when teh 2006
EPA standards take effect?


Nothing as I understand it. They're grandfathered in.

Capt. Bill

I suppose it really depends on the state you are in. Ask anyone with an old car
what they have to go through in some states.

This is either a troll, or the most inane comment I've seen today.

You tell 'em Clams ;)

"Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net...
This is either a troll, or the most inane comment I've seen today.

There is though, an active conspiricy amongst the dealers to get these
things off the water. This includes inflated labor rates, inflated parts
costs, and poorly trained service personell who don't know how to work on
them properly.

Since they are so simple to work on... I surely wouldn't take a newer, more
complex, outboard to any shop that couldn't properly troubleshoot or tune up
a 1980 140hp Merc.


Clams,

I agree its BS. Aside from that, large 2 strokes have 200+ HP not 100+ HP ;)


Matt

I think there is a place for 2 strokes and a place for 4 strokes. If you are
really interested in running an appreciable portion of WOT all the time you
need a 2 stroke.
If you are content to cruise at 3000-3500 RPM a 4 stroke is probably for you.

Today they do.... but I think he meant "large" as in 100 and **up**.

It take a minimum of about 90hp at the propshaft to propel your "average"
family runnabout and be able to use it for fishing / skiing / tubing etc.
Granted, tournament bass boats need a bit more corn to be competative.

Two stroke outboards broke "the 100 hp barrier" in 1962 with the Merc 1000
that was featured in popular mechanics magazine.

A quick flurry of improvements saw the "Tower of Power" go to 110, 125, 135,
140, and 150hp over the next 10 years. Between 1962 and 1988 Mercury made
hundreds of thousands of these critters, each *still* quite capable of
powering a brand new runnabout.

-W (who has new Seaswirl runnabout with about 50 hours on the hull, powered
by a 16 year old Tower. Order it "Mercury pre-rig please!" and go find your
own Tower hehe )


"Matt Lang" wrote in message


I agree its BS. Aside from that, large 2 strokes have 200+ HP not 100+ HP
;)


Matt

Subject: "Deep Six" those big old 2 strokes now
From: (Greg)

What is going to happen with all these older outboards when teh 2006
EPA standards take effect?


Nothing as I understand it. They're grandfathered in.

Capt. Bill

I suppose it really depends on the state you are in. Ask anyone with an old
car
what they have to go through in some states.

Have some states come out with a plan to sniff test outboards after 2006?

Capt. Bill

Have some states come out with a plan to sniff test outboards after 2006?

They can sniff my Johnson.
;)

Have some states come out with a plan to sniff test outboards after 2006?


There are already places like the Peoples Republic of California that are
banning carburated 2 strokes on lakes.

I think there is a place for 2 strokes and a place for 4 strokes.

Yes, and if there were some decent mechanics around here that would actually
get your boat back to you before the end of NEXT season a new 4 stroke would be
nice. If you didnt need 4 million dollars worth of diagnostic equipment to fix
one, a new four stroke would be nice.

I'll give up my old 2 stroke when they pry my cold, dead fingers off the
throttle. Hmmm, that sounds familiar. :)

There are already places like the Peoples Republic of California that are
banning carburated 2 strokes on lakes.

How will they catch them? Surely not with a 4 stroke. Lets be real.

I can build a box with a bunch of wires and stuff and say it's a prototype
DFI tower.

:P

-W

"CCred68046" wrote in message
...
There are already places like the Peoples Republic of California that are
banning carburated 2 strokes on lakes.

How will they catch them? Surely not with a 4 stroke. Lets be real.

I can build a box with a bunch of wires and stuff and say it's a prototype
DFI tower.

I'll paint mine silver and buy some Honda decals. =)

There are already places like the Peoples Republic of California that are
banning carburated 2 strokes on lakes.

How will they catch them? Surely not with a 4 stroke. Lets be real.


They wait at the gas dock!

Also Sprach Bill Kiene :
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

Feh. My 140 HP Johnson is almost as old as I am, and has been 100%
relible in the 5 years I've owned it. Parts, if needed, are far cheaper
than a brand new 4-stroke or DFI 2 stroke. For one thing, there are far
fewer parts to begin with. Also, since it's been around forever, there
are plenty of aftermarket manufacturers to buy parts from, while with a
brand new engine you have no choice other than the manufacterer's
parts.

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

The fuel cost argument is a non-starter. A few extra gallons a
year is FAR cheaper than spending 15,000 plus installation costs to
repower.

Dan

--

JESUS SAVES, but I makes backups!

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

Mynew 4 stroke 60 big foot uses exactly the same kit as my 1989 75 2 stroke.

On 09 Sep 2004 01:53:58 GMT, (LaBomba182) wrote:

Subject: "Deep Six" those big old 2 strokes now
From: (Greg)

What is going to happen with all these older outboards when teh 2006
EPA standards take effect?


Nothing as I understand it. They're grandfathered in.

Capt. Bill

I suppose it really depends on the state you are in. Ask anyone with an old
car
what they have to go through in some states.

Have some states come out with a plan to sniff test outboards after 2006?

HAH!!!

Let me clue you in on something - the sniffers are also BS.

I have a 1988 Bronco with a V6 something or other that has at least
210,000 miles on it, punched out catalytic converter, sparkplugs
haven't been changed in 50k, I haven't changed the oil or filter (just
keep adding oil) in - well at least two years since the last time CT
actually had testing (which is a whole 'nother story) - in short it's
a junker that I use when the weather is bad. It did better on the
sniffer test than my wife's brand new (at the time) Towncar.

We haven't had testing in CT for the past four years (I think it's
four years) because they can't get the testing software right. Brand
new cars were testing "bad".

It's all a scam and another "fee" to bolster the revenue stream to the
states.

Later,

Tom

Who is feeling very grumpy this morning, thank you very much.


Later,

Tom

On 09 Sep 2004 02:16:20 GMT, obull (CCred68046)
wrote:

Have some states come out with a plan to sniff test outboards after 2006?

They can sniff my Johnson.
;)

And suddenly, I'm not so grumpy anymore. :)

LOL!!!! Good one.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

On 9 Sep 2004 03:52:44 GMT, Marshall Banana wrote:

Also Sprach Bill Kiene :
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

Feh. My 140 HP Johnson is almost as old as I am, and has been 100%
relible in the 5 years I've owned it. Parts, if needed, are far cheaper
than a brand new 4-stroke or DFI 2 stroke. For one thing, there are far
fewer parts to begin with. Also, since it's been around forever, there
are plenty of aftermarket manufacturers to buy parts from, while with a
brand new engine you have no choice other than the manufacterer's
parts.

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

I'm not so sure about that - I know on my FICHT that a lot of the
mechanical parts are identical to earlier to models and OEM parts.
It's the engine stuff that is different.

The fuel cost argument is a non-starter. A few extra gallons a
year is FAR cheaper than spending 15,000 plus installation costs to
repower.

I totally agree with you here, but I have FICHTS, I like FICHTS and
will probably stay with the DFI technology.

I will say that I was mightly impressed with the Honda four strokes.
I rode in a USCG boat powered with two Honda 225s and quiet, the boat
came up on plane quickly and talk about speed - amazing.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 03:52:44 GMT, Marshall Banana wrote:

Also Sprach Bill Kiene :
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

Feh. My 140 HP Johnson is almost as old as I am, and has been 100%
relible in the 5 years I've owned it. Parts, if needed, are far cheaper
than a brand new 4-stroke or DFI 2 stroke. For one thing, there are far
fewer parts to begin with. Also, since it's been around forever, there
are plenty of aftermarket manufacturers to buy parts from, while with a
brand new engine you have no choice other than the manufacterer's
parts.

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

I'm not so sure about that - I know on my FICHT that a lot of the
mechanical parts are identical to earlier to models and OEM parts.
It's the engine stuff that is different.

The fuel cost argument is a non-starter. A few extra gallons a
year is FAR cheaper than spending 15,000 plus installation costs to
repower.

I totally agree with you here, but I have FICHTS, I like FICHTS and
will probably stay with the DFI technology.

I will say that I was mightly impressed with the Honda four strokes.
I rode in a USCG boat powered with two Honda 225s and quiet, the boat
came up on plane quickly and talk about speed - amazing.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

I've been pleased with the Yamaha, but I was also pleased with the Merc.
The one big difference I've noticed in operations is that the Yamaha is
much quieter at idle.

Both engines are plumbers' and electricians' nightmares under the hoods,
and I simply do not mess with them in any way. If a repair or adjustment
is needed, the dealer's mechanics get the work.



--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT



I think it is. In my case, other Parker models were available at that
time unrigged...that is, with no outboard at all installed. There are
some mostly showroom only dealers who do not have the mechanics
available to rig a boat properly, but it isn't rocket science, and all
the engine manufacturers sell rigging kits.




--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

I used to be the owner of a '68 Merc 1250 ... a nice machine.. back
then it was THE ****kicker motor

Matt

"Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net...
Today they do.... but I think he meant "large" as in 100 and **up**.

It take a minimum of about 90hp at the propshaft to propel your "average"
family runnabout and be able to use it for fishing / skiing / tubing etc.
Granted, tournament bass boats need a bit more corn to be competative.

Two stroke outboards broke "the 100 hp barrier" in 1962 with the Merc 1000
that was featured in popular mechanics magazine.

A quick flurry of improvements saw the "Tower of Power" go to 110, 125, 135,
140, and 150hp over the next 10 years. Between 1962 and 1988 Mercury made
hundreds of thousands of these critters, each *still* quite capable of
powering a brand new runnabout.

-W (who has new Seaswirl runnabout with about 50 hours on the hull, powered
by a 16 year old Tower. Order it "Mercury pre-rig please!" and go find your
own Tower hehe )


"Matt Lang" wrote in message


I agree its BS. Aside from that, large 2 strokes have 200+ HP not 100+ HP
;)


Matt

Ya, that was the 1st 99ci block, and they grew up fast.....
1350 in 1970,
1400 in 1972,
1500 by 1973.

For a time there in the 70's all those beasts were the kings of the
lake.....
1500's still win the top NMMA titles in the "under 100ci classes" , they're
done screaming when we say they're done screaming. :)

There's a '68 1250 near me that's powering an 80's vintage family ski-boat,
seems to be doing just fine out there.

-W

"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...
I used to be the owner of a '68 Merc 1250 ... a nice machine.. back
then it was THE ****kicker motor

Matt

In article ,
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653


May be.

However, Mercury started it. There were years where I elimitated a number
of boat lines, both in I/O and outboard, because I couldn't get anything
OTHER THAN Merc on /in it.

How come people only whine about "restraint of trade" when its the Japs
doing it?

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:40:52 GMT, (Karl
Denninger) wrote:


In article ,
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

May be.

However, Mercury started it. There were years where I elimitated a number
of boat lines, both in I/O and outboard, because I couldn't get anything
OTHER THAN Merc on /in it.

How come people only whine about "restraint of trade" when its the Japs
doing it?

I've never run into this before with any engine manufacturer like I
have this year. Formerly, if Merc was offered and I wanted Johnson, I
had it prerigged for Johnson - never was I not allowed a different
option if I wanted it.

Later,

Tom