"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...


dixon wrote:

After seeing the movie 9/11, I saw some very obvious lies on moores
part.
The part is surely trick photography where bush sits in a class of kids
with
a deer in the headlights look on his face for seven minutes after
hearing
the country is being attacked. No world leader, in this nuclear age
would
ever do anything that stupid. Is moore seriously trying to make us
believe
that with jet pilots working like a nascar pit crew to practice getting
airborne quickly, the president would be such an idiot to do nothing
while
planes were on thier way to the pentagon? Other than this everything
else
seemed believable in the movie.

--


--
Dixon


This is very interesting, and a view that is common with our
conservative friends.

Dixon says "some very obvious lies", then points out one thing that's
undeniably true, then says "Other than this everything else seemed
believable in the movie."

Where are the obvious lies?

There are a number of them. One of them, for instance, is the claim that
Bush was responsible for members of the Saudi family leaving the US 2 days
after 9/11. Richard Clarke's 9/11 testimony (made *before* the movie was
released) showed that it was Clarke who granted permission for them to
leave. There are dozens of other examples. Do a google search and you'll
find them.

"NOYB" wrote in message ...
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...


dixon wrote:

After seeing the movie 9/11, I saw some very obvious lies on moores
part.
The part is surely trick photography where bush sits in a class of kids
with
a deer in the headlights look on his face for seven minutes after
hearing
the country is being attacked. No world leader, in this nuclear age
would
ever do anything that stupid. Is moore seriously trying to make us
believe
that with jet pilots working like a nascar pit crew to practice getting
airborne quickly, the president would be such an idiot to do nothing
while
planes were on thier way to the pentagon? Other than this everything
else
seemed believable in the movie.

--


--
Dixon


This is very interesting, and a view that is common with our
conservative friends.

Dixon says "some very obvious lies", then points out one thing that's
undeniably true, then says "Other than this everything else seemed
believable in the movie."

Where are the obvious lies?

There are a number of them. One of them, for instance, is the claim that
Bush was responsible for members of the Saudi family leaving the US 2 days
after 9/11.

He was! His administration made the damned arrangements.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...


dixon wrote:

After seeing the movie 9/11, I saw some very obvious lies on moores
part.
The part is surely trick photography where bush sits in a class of
kids
with
a deer in the headlights look on his face for seven minutes after
hearing
the country is being attacked. No world leader, in this nuclear age
would
ever do anything that stupid. Is moore seriously trying to make us
believe
that with jet pilots working like a nascar pit crew to practice
getting
airborne quickly, the president would be such an idiot to do nothing
while
planes were on thier way to the pentagon? Other than this everything
else
seemed believable in the movie.

--


--
Dixon


This is very interesting, and a view that is common with our
conservative friends.

Dixon says "some very obvious lies", then points out one thing that's
undeniably true, then says "Other than this everything else seemed
believable in the movie."

Where are the obvious lies?

There are a number of them. One of them, for instance, is the claim that
Bush was responsible for members of the Saudi family leaving the US 2
days
after 9/11.

He was! His administration made the damned arrangements.

Actually, it was just one seedy, partisan, and underhanded individual named
Richard Clarke who made the arrangements. Go check your facts!

"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...


dixon wrote:

After seeing the movie 9/11, I saw some very obvious lies on moores
part.
The part is surely trick photography where bush sits in a class of
kids
with
a deer in the headlights look on his face for seven minutes after
hearing
the country is being attacked. No world leader, in this nuclear age
would
ever do anything that stupid. Is moore seriously trying to make us
believe
that with jet pilots working like a nascar pit crew to practice
getting
airborne quickly, the president would be such an idiot to do nothing
while
planes were on thier way to the pentagon? Other than this everything
else
seemed believable in the movie.

--


--
Dixon


This is very interesting, and a view that is common with our
conservative friends.

Dixon says "some very obvious lies", then points out one thing that's
undeniably true, then says "Other than this everything else seemed
believable in the movie."

Where are the obvious lies?

There are a number of them. One of them, for instance, is the claim that
Bush was responsible for members of the Saudi family leaving the US 2
days
after 9/11.

He was! His administration made the damned arrangements.

Actually, it was just one seedy, partisan, and underhanded individual named
Richard Clarke who made the arrangements. Go check your facts!

Are you REALLY, HONESTLY saying that Richard Clarke did so without ANY
input from Bush? Really, now, tell me the truth, do you actually
believe that??? If so, I've got some land I'd like to sell you...

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...


dixon wrote:

After seeing the movie 9/11, I saw some very obvious lies on
moores
part.
The part is surely trick photography where bush sits in a class
of
kids
with
a deer in the headlights look on his face for seven minutes
after
hearing
the country is being attacked. No world leader, in this nuclear
age
would
ever do anything that stupid. Is moore seriously trying to make
us
believe
that with jet pilots working like a nascar pit crew to practice
getting
airborne quickly, the president would be such an idiot to do
nothing
while
planes were on thier way to the pentagon? Other than this
everything
else
seemed believable in the movie.

--


--
Dixon


This is very interesting, and a view that is common with our
conservative friends.

Dixon says "some very obvious lies", then points out one thing
that's
undeniably true, then says "Other than this everything else seemed
believable in the movie."

Where are the obvious lies?

There are a number of them. One of them, for instance, is the claim
that
Bush was responsible for members of the Saudi family leaving the US
2
days
after 9/11.

He was! His administration made the damned arrangements.

Actually, it was just one seedy, partisan, and underhanded individual
named
Richard Clarke who made the arrangements. Go check your facts!

Are you REALLY, HONESTLY saying that Richard Clarke did so without ANY
input from Bush? Really, now, tell me the truth, do you actually
believe that??? If so, I've got some land I'd like to sell you...

"It didn't get any higher than me," Clarke said. "On 9-11, 9-12 and 9-13,
many things didn't get any higher than me. I decided it in consultation with
the FBI."

Hamilton said in an interview Friday that when he told Democratic senators
that the commission did not know who authorized the Saudi flights, he was
not fully informed.

"They asked the question 'Who authorized the flight?' and I said I did not
know and I'd try to find out," Hamilton said. "I learned subsequently from
talking to the staff that we thought Clarke authorized the flight and it did
not go higher."


http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx

"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...


dixon wrote:

After seeing the movie 9/11, I saw some very obvious lies on moores
part.
The part is surely trick photography where bush sits in a class of
kids
with
a deer in the headlights look on his face for seven minutes after
hearing
the country is being attacked. No world leader, in this nuclear age
would
ever do anything that stupid. Is moore seriously trying to make us
believe
that with jet pilots working like a nascar pit crew to practice
getting
airborne quickly, the president would be such an idiot to do nothing
while
planes were on thier way to the pentagon? Other than this everything
else
seemed believable in the movie.

--


--
Dixon


This is very interesting, and a view that is common with our
conservative friends.

Dixon says "some very obvious lies", then points out one thing that's
undeniably true, then says "Other than this everything else seemed
believable in the movie."

Where are the obvious lies?

There are a number of them. One of them, for instance, is the claim that
Bush was responsible for members of the Saudi family leaving the US 2
days
after 9/11.

He was! His administration made the damned arrangements.

Actually, it was just one seedy, partisan, and underhanded individual named
Richard Clarke who made the arrangements. Go check your facts!

Hmm, okay....

First:
1. THE FLIGHTS - WHO GOT OUT WHEN

The facts stated in Fahrenheit 9/11 are well documented and are based
entirely on the findings contained in the 9/11 commission draft
report, which states, "After the airspace reopened, six chartered
flights with 142 people, mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from
the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the
so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20
with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin."
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States,
Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi
Flights, p. 12

Unfortunately, some news organizations have misinterpreted what the
film says. Some have said Fahrenheit 9/11 alleges that these flights
out of the country took place when commercial airplanes were still
grounded. The film does not say this. The film states clearly that
these flights left after September 13 (the day the FAA began to slowly
lift the ban on air traffic).

2. WHO APPROVED THESE FLIGHTS AND WHY

We really do not know why it was so necessary for the White House to
allow the quick exodus of these Saudi and bin Ladens out of the
country, and "the White House still refuses to document fully how the
flights were arranged," according to a June 20, 2004, article by Phil
Shenon in the New York Times .

We do know who asked for help in getting Saudis out of the country -
the Saudi government. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon
the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No.
10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12 The film also includes a television
interview with Saudi Prince Bandar, confirming this as well.

Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke has testified that he
approved these flights, stating that "it was a conscious decision with
complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the
FBI and the White House." Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former
Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate
Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.

3. DID THESE INDIVIDUALS GET SPECIAL TREATMENT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT?

Yes, according to Jack Cloonan, a former senior agent on the joint
FBI-CIA Al-Qaeda task force, who is interviewed in Fahrenheit 9/11.
Cloonan raises questions about the type of investigation to which
these individuals were subjected, finding it highly unusual that in
light of the seriousness of the attack on 9/11, bin Laden family
members were allowed to leave the country and escape without anyone
getting their statements on record in any kind of formal proceeding,
and with little more than a brief interview.

Most Saudis who left were not interviewed at all by the FBI. In fact,
of the 142 Saudis on these flights, only 30 were interviewed. National
Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and
Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12

The film puts this in perspective. Imagine President Clinton
facilitating the exit of members of the McVeigh family out of the
country following the Oklahoma City bombing. Or compare this treatment
to the hundreds of people detained following the 9/11 attacks who were
held without charges for months on end, who had no relationship to
Osama bin Laden.

The question, which has never been answered, is what was the rush in
getting these individuals out of the country? As Cloonan says, ""If I
had to inconvenience a member of the bin Laden family with a subpoena
or a Grand Jury, do you think I'd lose any sleep over it? Not for a
minute Mike... [Y]ou got a lawyer? Fine. Counselor? Fine. Mr. Bin
Laden, this is why I'm asking you, it's not because I think that
you're anything. I just want to ask you the questions that I would
anybody."

4. ADDITIONAL FACTS NOT REPORTED IN FAHRENHEIT 9/11 THAT SUPPORT THE
FILM'S THESIS

First, the US Customs and Border Protection document released by the
Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004 lists 162
Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between 9.11.2001 and
9.15.2001 .

Second, even though Fahrenheit does not make the allegation, on June
9, 2004, news reports confirmed that, "Two days after the Sept. 11
attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small
jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi
men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi
royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former
Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then
took another flight out of the country."

Moreover, "For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law
enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and
have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation
about its purpose... The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11
Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with
142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between
Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight…
The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United
States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with
the handling of the Tampa flight.

"Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were
empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick
landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid
charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights." Jean Heller,
TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that
two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.
St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004

Clarke admitted that he *alone* approved the flights. Why would he protect
the Bush administration after his scathing attack book against Bush?

"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net...
Clarke admitted that he *alone* approved the flights. Why would he protect
the Bush administration after his scathing attack book against Bush?

Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke has testified that he
approved these flights, stating that "it was a conscious decision with
complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the
FBI and the White House." Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former
Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate
Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...
Clarke admitted that he *alone* approved the flights. Why would he
protect
the Bush administration after his scathing attack book against Bush?

Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke has testified that he
approved these flights, stating that "it was a conscious decision with
complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the
FBI and the White House." Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former
Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate
Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.

And for that exact reason, Clarke should be indicted for perjury. He
contradicted himself when he admitted in May of this year that he alone, in
consultation with the FBI, granted permission.