"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:13:32 -0400, jim-- wrote:



And isn't that the real shame of it?

73 words out of a 10,000 word acceptance speech about his 240 months in
the Senate but almost half of them on the 4 months he bravely served in
Vietnam some 30+ years ago.

And according some here in this very forum those 4 months 30 years ago
are more telling as to his ability to be POTUS than his recent 240
months in the US Senate. Sadly, I am sure there are plenty of other non
thinking partisans who feel the same and cannot see what is important
and what is not.

There is still three months until the election. Surely between now and
then, there will be a national debate on real issues, but then, maybe not.
I have stated before, that I believe *both* candidates did what there
country asked of them. It would be nice to move on to a more issue
oriented campaign, but it this climate, that may be asking too much.

Vote for Bush and you will remain free and your country will work to protect
you.

Vote for Kerry and you will be taxed into poverty and you can bend over and
take it in the ass from our enemies.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Don't let Chuck get to you, he's just "Harry West Coast" and more a
troll than anything else.

If I were any lower, I'd be a specialist in two-line name calling.

Now you have ascended to the one-line name calling specialist.

"basskisser" wrote in message

Um, to which group of swift boat vets are you referring?


If you are that damned stupid, stay out of the conversation. It's
getting awfully tiring to have to explain every single sentence of
every single post to you. For an explanation, please see the topic of
the post, which is "Swift Boat Liars". THOSE would be the one's that I
am talking about, seeing how that is the topic of this post.

My, my; aren't we getting testy! But just who are "those?" There are
currently two groups of swift boat veterans -- one group paid by the
Democrats to tell one story, the other paid by the Republicans to tell
another version. One of these groups of swift boat veterans is lying. To
which group of swift boat veterans are you referring?

In article ,
says...

You don't believe character is important?
That it's a prime requisite for POTUS?
How about aspects of character, like honesty, intelligence, integrity, and so
forth? Are they "BS" as well?

So when you look at Kerrys admission that he committed the atrocities
to which he referred (cutting off heads, ears, rape, burning villages
etc.) you feel that shows a strength of character???

I have a friend who was a LRP. He showed me pictures of dead VC with
body parts cut off. Mostly ears.

IIRC, they believe you cannot enter heaven without a complete body.

They used playing cards as calling cards to let locals and other
soldiers know they would meet the same fate.

Common practice in VN.

jps

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:30:50 GMT, (Tom) wrote:


You don't believe character is important?
That it's a prime requisite for POTUS?
How about aspects of character, like honesty, intelligence, integrity, and so
forth? Are they "BS" as well?

So when you look at Kerrys admission that he committed the atrocities
to which he referred (cutting off heads, ears, rape, burning villages
etc.) you feel that shows a strength of character???

Sir:

Although I have read the transcript of Mr. Kerry's 1971 interview on this topic,
I wonder if you'd be so kind as to provide some sort of documentation for these
specific atrocities you claim were committed by the young LtJG Kerry. I have
seen no such documentation--and it is not for lack of a diligent search on my
part.

Most sincerely,
W.T. Hatch

And would you like to tell us which right wing president drug us into
that mess to support the right wing dictators???



Sure.

Eisenhower's Letter of Support to Ngo Dinh Diem, October 23, 1954.
Dear Mr. President: I have been following with great interest the course of
developments in Viet-Nam, particularly since the conclusion of the conference
at Geneva. The implications of the agreement concerning Viet-Nam have caused
grave concern regarding the future of a country temporarily divided by an
artificial military grouping, weakened by a long and exhausting war and faced
with enemies without and by their subversive collaborations within. Your recent
requests for aid to assist in the formidable project of the movement of several
hundred thousand loyal Vietnamese citizens away from areas which are passing
under a de facto rule and political ideology which they abhor, are being
fulfilled. I am glad that the United States is able to assist in this
humanitarian effort. We have been exploring ways and means to permit our aid to
Viet-Nam to be more effective and to make a greater contribution to the welfare
and stability of the government of Viet-Nam. I am, accordingly, instructing the
American Ambassador to Viet-Nam to examine with you in your capacity as Chief
of Government, how an intelligent program of American aid given directly to
your government can serve to assist Viet-Nam in its present hour of trial,
provided that your Government is prepared to give assurances as to the
standards of performance it would be able to maintain in the event such aid
were supplied. The purpose of this offer is to assist the Government of
Viet-Nam in developing and maintaining a strong, viable state, capable of
resisting attempted subversion or aggression through military means. The
Government of the United States expects that this aid will be met by
performance on the part of the Government of Viet-Nam in undertaking needed
reforms. It hopes that such aid, combined with your own continuing efforts,
will contribute effectively toward an independent Viet-Nam endowed with a
strong government. Such a government would, I hope, be so responsive to the
nationalist aspirations of its people, so enlightened in purpose and effective
in performance, that it will be respected both at home and abroad and
discourage any who might wish to impose a foreign ideology on your free people.


Sincerely,
Dwight D. Eisenhower

SOURCE: Department of State Bulletin. November 15, 1954, pp.735-736.

Chuck, I know you are not as stupid as you appear to be on this topic.

At least two boats were on every mission. In case one breaks down then they
have the other one to tow it back or leave the broken boat and bring back
the broken boats crew.

OK, Bert. You do the math. Maybe you'll have better luck than some of the
others.
250 guys all swearing to the same few incidents. You say there are *at least
two* boats per mission. Certainly, and perhaps 3 or even 4 sometimes. Let's go
with 4.

4 boats. 6 guys per boat. Looks like 24 "eyewitnesses" to me. Please tell me
how I can become intelligent enough to believe that there were 250 guys on the
scene.

The people who served with Kerry day in and day out, who were directly under
his command at the time, all say the charges are bull****.

You guys have nothing, except wishful thinking inspired by a hateful attitude.

We can clear all of this up if the medical records are released so that we
can actually find out the extent and source of the wounds.

Turn off the Limbaugh show. You're believing his swill about Kerry's records
not being available. Kerry's military records are publicly available.
Here's the link:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_...y_records.html

can actually find out the extent and source of the wounds.

and, Bert, if you look up the qualifications for the PH award (here's a link
for that)

http://www.purpleheart.org/Awd_of_PH.htm

you will plainly see that the extent or severity of the wound is not a
qualifying condition for receipt of the Purple Heart.
You don't even have to be bleeding. The wound or injury must result from enemy
action and must be treated by a medical officer.

Kerry found a loop hole, getting three purple hearts, to get out early.




Agreed. Better or worse loophole than having your Dad move you to the head of
the line for admission to the Texas Air National Guard as a means to avoid
being drafted? Better or worse loophole than refusing or flunking the drug test
required for advanced combat flight training? Better or worse loophole than
mysterious gaps in attendence and an officially sanctioned early dismissal to
work on a political campaign in Alabama?

Hard to say.

Other than Bush the First, Carter, and Kennedy, have there been any presidents
in the last 40 years with serious military experience?

Ronald Reagan played a cavalry soldier in some old westerns, but I don't think
that counts. :-)



Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/

Want to talk about backshooters? George Bush buddy Sun Myung Moon gave
nuclear weapons submarine sea-launch technology to North Korea in
1994.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html


http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page76.html

Sun Myung Moon owns WASHINGTON TIMES NEWSPAPER

Here's a guy the Republicans don't want us to know about.

The Reverend Sun Myung Moon, head of the Unification Church and a
self-declared Messiah from South Korea, is a major behind-the-scenes
GOP player. His organization owns The Washington Times, the
right-wing newspaper Ronald Reagan once called his favorite. Moon
said he has pumped over $1 billion into the paper since the Church
bought it in 1982. Those poor Moonies had to sell a lot of flowers!
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page18.html

Most folks recognize Moon as a dangerous cult leader who has
recruited, brainwashed, and enslaved thousands of unsuspecting
students from college campuses since the 1970s.

They also remember the mass weddings he conducted at Yankee and RFK
stadiums where thousands of couples were brought together. Critics
say church officials arranged the marriages to circumvent American
immigration laws.

Moon controls a multibillion dollar tax-free business empire. In the
mid-1980s, he served a year in prison for tax evasion. A lesser
known fact is that his business operations have competed for, and
received, government contracts worth millions of dollars. No
ordinary commercial operation can compete with a Moonie shop because
you can't beat the low cost of slave labor.

Moon says he's the only person in the world who knows all the secrets
of God. Well, isn't he smart? He says he's been the Messiah ever
since he ran into Jesus in Korea in 1936. He says Jesus asked him to
take over the mission -- the one Moon says Jesus screwed up because He
didn't get married.

Moon continues his lifelong pursuit of recognition -- to be crowned
the new world Messiah. But he has often complained, "look, I'm doing
my best to be the Messiah. You try to be the Messiah." Look,
Moonpie -- Jesus never bitched about it, so clam up!

Moon came to the U.S. in the early 1970s. His organization is said
to be not religious, but political. It has connections to South
Korean intelligence operations designed to bolster the U.S. commitment
to Seoul in case North Korea invades. His clout in Washington
increased substantially during the Reagan administration because both
Reagan and Moon are rabid anti-Communists.

He has given millions of dollars to a number of Republicans. Paid
speakers at his Family Federation for World Peace have included George
Bush, William Bennett, Jack Kemp, and Ralph Reed. In the early
1990s, his organization funneled millions to Jerry Falwell's Liberty
University when it was facing staggering debts.
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page19.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page31.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page53.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page75.html

And Moon has strange ideas about sex. He's been married four times,
but his followers say the first three marriages were not consummated
and thus do not count.

Moon once told a conference that misunderstandings about male and
female sex organs have led to confusion. He said his theology
dictates that the husband owns his wife's sex organs, and vice versa.
So if my wife wants to castrate me, that's her right?

And where does he stand on family values? In 1998, his
daughter-in-law, Nansook Hong, told 60 Minutes that Moon had cheated
on his wife and fathered an illegitimate son. She said he called it
"providential affairs." That Moon's got a fancy word for everything,
especially when he's been doing something naughty.

Nansook also told of a brutal beating she got from her
drug-and-alcohol-addicted husband when she was pregnant. Moon and
his wife blamed her, saying it was her fate to suffer. Her fate?
Well, screw that! So Nansook fled Moon's high-security compound in
Tarrytown, New York, along with her five children.

Moon also has an estranged daughter, Un-Jin. She supports her
sister-in-law's story.

And this guy says he's the new Messiah. Yeah, right.

Actually, not all say he was good. One of the crewman states he was a
chicken****, who ran all the time. This appears to be a crewman who served
several tours on the river boats.
Bill

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Chuck, I know you are not as stupid as you appear to be on this topic.

At least two boats were on every mission. In case one breaks down then
they
have the other one to tow it back or leave the broken boat and bring back
the broken boats crew.

OK, Bert. You do the math. Maybe you'll have better luck than some of the
others.
250 guys all swearing to the same few incidents. You say there are *at
least
two* boats per mission. Certainly, and perhaps 3 or even 4 sometimes.
Let's go
with 4.

4 boats. 6 guys per boat. Looks like 24 "eyewitnesses" to me. Please tell
me
how I can become intelligent enough to believe that there were 250 guys on
the
scene.

The people who served with Kerry day in and day out, who were directly
under
his command at the time, all say the charges are bull****.

You guys have nothing, except wishful thinking inspired by a hateful
attitude.

We can clear all of this up if the medical records are released so that
we
can actually find out the extent and source of the wounds.

Turn off the Limbaugh show. You're believing his swill about Kerry's
records
not being available. Kerry's military records are publicly available.
Here's the link:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_...y_records.html

can actually find out the extent and source of the wounds.

and, Bert, if you look up the qualifications for the PH award (here's a
link
for that)

http://www.purpleheart.org/Awd_of_PH.htm

you will plainly see that the extent or severity of the wound is not a
qualifying condition for receipt of the Purple Heart.
You don't even have to be bleeding. The wound or injury must result from
enemy
action and must be treated by a medical officer.

Kerry found a loop hole, getting three purple hearts, to get out early.




Agreed. Better or worse loophole than having your Dad move you to the head
of
the line for admission to the Texas Air National Guard as a means to avoid
being drafted? Better or worse loophole than refusing or flunking the drug
test
required for advanced combat flight training? Better or worse loophole
than
mysterious gaps in attendence and an officially sanctioned early dismissal
to
work on a political campaign in Alabama?

Hard to say.

Other than Bush the First, Carter, and Kennedy, have there been any
presidents
in the last 40 years with serious military experience?

Ronald Reagan played a cavalry soldier in some old westerns, but I don't
think
that counts. :-)



Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth".
http://www.sftt.org/

Psalm 110 wrote:
Want to talk about backshooters? George Bush buddy Sun Myung Moon gave
nuclear weapons submarine sea-launch technology to North Korea in
1994.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html


http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page76.html

Sun Myung Moon owns WASHINGTON TIMES NEWSPAPER

Here's a guy the Republicans don't want us to know about.

The Reverend Sun Myung Moon, head of the Unification Church and a
self-declared Messiah from South Korea, is a major behind-the-scenes
GOP player. His organization owns The Washington Times, the
right-wing newspaper Ronald Reagan once called his favorite. Moon
said he has pumped over $1 billion into the paper since the Church
bought it in 1982. Those poor Moonies had to sell a lot of flowers!
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page18.html

Most folks recognize Moon as a dangerous cult leader who has
recruited, brainwashed, and enslaved thousands of unsuspecting
students from college campuses since the 1970s.

They also remember the mass weddings he conducted at Yankee and RFK
stadiums where thousands of couples were brought together. Critics
say church officials arranged the marriages to circumvent American
immigration laws.

Moon controls a multibillion dollar tax-free business empire. In the
mid-1980s, he served a year in prison for tax evasion. A lesser
known fact is that his business operations have competed for, and
received, government contracts worth millions of dollars. No
ordinary commercial operation can compete with a Moonie shop because
you can't beat the low cost of slave labor.

Moon says he's the only person in the world who knows all the secrets
of God. Well, isn't he smart? He says he's been the Messiah ever
since he ran into Jesus in Korea in 1936. He says Jesus asked him to
take over the mission -- the one Moon says Jesus screwed up because He
didn't get married.

Moon continues his lifelong pursuit of recognition -- to be crowned
the new world Messiah. But he has often complained, "look, I'm doing
my best to be the Messiah. You try to be the Messiah." Look,
Moonpie -- Jesus never bitched about it, so clam up!

Moon came to the U.S. in the early 1970s. His organization is said
to be not religious, but political. It has connections to South
Korean intelligence operations designed to bolster the U.S. commitment
to Seoul in case North Korea invades. His clout in Washington
increased substantially during the Reagan administration because both
Reagan and Moon are rabid anti-Communists.

He has given millions of dollars to a number of Republicans. Paid
speakers at his Family Federation for World Peace have included George
Bush, William Bennett, Jack Kemp, and Ralph Reed. In the early
1990s, his organization funneled millions to Jerry Falwell's Liberty
University when it was facing staggering debts.
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page19.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page31.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page53.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page75.html

And Moon has strange ideas about sex. He's been married four times,
but his followers say the first three marriages were not consummated
and thus do not count.

Moon once told a conference that misunderstandings about male and
female sex organs have led to confusion. He said his theology
dictates that the husband owns his wife's sex organs, and vice versa.
So if my wife wants to castrate me, that's her right?

And where does he stand on family values? In 1998, his
daughter-in-law, Nansook Hong, told 60 Minutes that Moon had cheated
on his wife and fathered an illegitimate son. She said he called it
"providential affairs." That Moon's got a fancy word for everything,
especially when he's been doing something naughty.

Nansook also told of a brutal beating she got from her
drug-and-alcohol-addicted husband when she was pregnant. Moon and
his wife blamed her, saying it was her fate to suffer. Her fate?
Well, screw that! So Nansook fled Moon's high-security compound in
Tarrytown, New York, along with her five children.

Moon also has an estranged daughter, Un-Jin. She supports her
sister-in-law's story.

And this guy says he's the new Messiah. Yeah, right.

Indeed, not only don't the GOP'ers like to talk about Moon, they like to
read his newspaper.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002