On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:04:45 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:

shaking head

I bet that chafes your ass.

bb

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:12:46 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???

Sounds about right.

bb

"Don White" wrote in message
...

Scott McFadden wrote in message
snip...
Nor manatees, nor even the slightest clue about the real situation,
either.
..just lots of free wind.
As you've demonstrated.

Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...

Hey Frank. Move on down here to Naples. Our manatee are either a) faster,
or b) tougher. Our speed limit in the channel of a manatee zone is
30mph...not 25mph like it is in Lee County.

I say we begin impact studies right away and see if manatees survive 25mph
collisions better than they do 30mph collisions.





"Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message
link.net...
All shallow water areas Harry. Dr. lake and the other areas you
mentioned are already manatee zones. As far as a little silliness, I
hope they are as silly "new zone" laws. Such torts will virtually kill
boating in mainstream Florida waterways.

I have lived and boated here most of my life, and have rarely, like
maybe twice, seen a cow in the channal of the river. They don't like
heavy current, though the will swim in it if they have to. When
transiting the downtown jax area cows hug the shore. When in the broad
water south of the base and into orange park and greencove, they stay in
the shallows. I have seen them scratching their back on the pilings of
the Shand's bridge, in 6 feet of water, and the channal is only 12-13
feet deep there. What the locals are ****ed about is the increase of
buffer zones from between 100 and 1500 feet depending on the area to 300
feet everywhere, AND a speed limit river wide of 25 MPH in the channal
which is 80 feet. There will be no wake zones everywhere else. This
includes the ICW and Matanzas, Halifax, and Indian River which will
become entirely a no wake zone because they are less then 6000' wide.

The way the law is written, it is up to the local water-cop to determine
if you are in violation. Quote: "White water showing at either bow or
stern." A O'Day 23' sailboat, under sail, will produce white water at
the bow at 3 to 4 Kts. Heavier boats may not be able to go slow enough
to maintain headway without producing whitewater. Mine certainly won't
If I am maintaining 6 mph againsn't a 6 mph current, I am motionless as
far as land is concerned, But I am tossing a hell of a bow wave and
churning plenty of whitewater and wake at the stern. But, would be
breaking the law as written.

Our (We The People Who Live Here) contention is, The existent zones are
working to protect the cow. We don't want or need further federal laws
to protect them, nor, do we want to be taxed or use existing tax funds
to maintain a bunch of new "manatee zone" signs. The estimate is 12,000+
will be needed state wide.

If you still lived here, you would be as angry as the rest of us.

Capt. Frank

Harry Krause wrote:
Capt. Frank Hopkins wrote:


The point is: there are more then 4000 of the supra nourished herbivores
in the St. Johns River in the September Census. I do not have the
numbers for south FL and Tampa Bay. Perhaps you can provide them and add
the two together. At what point does the population become so large that
it becomes viable? When does a creature no longer need special
endangerment protection. Manatees are still a protected species, they
won't lose that status-ever! The current protection zones are working.
The population increase proves it. In Jacksonville and other cities on
the river, we don't need or want the draconian measures the F&G C are
planning. 25 mph in the channal? gimme a break. My cruiser barely planes
at 25. The sea cow doesn't even like the water in the channel because 1.
its too deep. The cow don't like water more then 8 or 9 feet deep. 2.
there is too much current for it to squat on the bottom. It would be
washed out to sea. 3 No food there. Fat cow don't go where there is no
food (period). Increasing the buffer zones from 1000 feet to 3000 feet
is just plain nuts.




There's a lot of scientifically invalid claims in your post, Frank, and
a little silliness, too. I lived in the Jax-St. Augustine area for more
than five years, and on occasion would see manatees "out in the channel"
of the St. Johns River. I've also seen them doing quite well against the
currents at Mayport and St. Augustine inlets, and I've seen them under
the bridges at Green Cove Springs and Doctors' Lake.

Better yet how about a study on how 'dentists' holdup under the same
conditions.

NOYB wrote in message
...
Hey Frank. Move on down here to Naples. Our manatee are either a)
faster,
or b) tougher. Our speed limit in the channel of a manatee zone is
30mph...not 25mph like it is in Lee County.

I say we begin impact studies right away and see if manatees survive 25mph
collisions better than they do 30mph collisions.

I think the survival of an endangered species is a universal concern...not
just 'merican.

NOYB wrote in message
...

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...

Sure, Don. Let's hold the test up in Canada. Then it's a virtual certainty
that I won't have anything to fear...since Canada offers absolutely nothing
to ever draw me up there in the first place.



"Don White" wrote in message
...
Better yet how about a study on how 'dentists' holdup under the same
conditions.

NOYB wrote in message
...
Hey Frank. Move on down here to Naples. Our manatee are either a)
faster,
or b) tougher. Our speed limit in the channel of a manatee zone is
30mph...not 25mph like it is in Lee County.

I say we begin impact studies right away and see if manatees survive
25mph
collisions better than they do 30mph collisions.

The manatee's numbers are increasing Don. In fact, the numbers are more
than double what they were when they were placed on the list. And all of
that growth in the population occurred before the *new* unnecessary
regulations that Save the Manatee coerced (through lawsuits and back room
deals) the Feds into enacting.

The science doesn't back the need to maintain the manatee on the "endangered
list"...nor does it support the need to enforce *new* regulations. The sea
cow was doing fine just the way things were.





"Don White" wrote in message
news
I think the survival of an endangered species is a universal concern...not
just 'merican.

NOYB wrote in message
...

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...

Maybe so...but we get over a hundred cruise ships a year jamb packed with
more enlightened North Eastern Americans
who seem to enjoy their visit.
As a matterof fact...so many Americans come here and like it,....they buy up
valuable waterfront properties and drive the price up out of reach of the
locals.
You could help by telling them there is nothing here worth buying for.

NOYB wrote in message
. ..
Sure, Don. Let's hold the test up in Canada. Then it's a virtual
certainty
that I won't have anything to fear...since Canada offers absolutely
nothing
to ever draw me up there in the first place.

Don, I think you must have struck a nerve with NYOB.....lol. Must be
right on the money.



Ok...let me see...
certain group of beligerent 'good ole boys' demand right to race around in
overpowered motorboats anywhere they
please, regardless of damage or irritation caused to any other livng
creature that may share same waterways.
...close???

Another case of the uniformed Canadian sticking his nose in America's
business...