We've all heard the expression, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass
monkey."

Some of us have heard the dubious explanation that a device for holding
cannonballs on a 17th Century warship was called a "monkey", and that the
device was essentially a brass tray. The tray supposedly contracted faster than
the iron cannonballs in cold weather, forcing the precariously balanced
cannonballs to fall "off the monkey". This old chestnut requires more than a
pinch of salt- closer to a barrel. If a change in temperature would force
cannon shot off of holders to roll around the gun deck. what would a normal
seaway do?

Here's what appears to be the straight scoop, once again its an excerpt from
"Ship tp Shore" by Peter D. Jeans.

Monkey, Freeze the balls of/off a brass monkey.......

A coarse expression from the days of sail, which now means extremely cold-
sufficiently cold to prodcue the interesting effect alluded to in the
expression.

In fact, the phrase derives from the brass cannon called a "monkey" in the
seventeenth century. In very cold temperatures, the iron cannonballs and the
bras cannon would contract at markedly different rates, so much so that the gun
would be unusable. Sailors referred to this phenonenon as "freezing the balls
of a brass monkey," the keyword being "of", not "off", and hence the expression
was literally true at the time.



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"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
We've all heard the expression, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a
brass
monkey."

..

In fact, the phrase derives from the brass cannon called a "monkey" in the
seventeenth century. In very cold temperatures, the iron cannonballs and
the
bras cannon would contract at markedly different rates, so much so that
the gun
would be unusable. Sailors referred to this phenonenon as "freezing the
balls
of a brass monkey," the keyword being "of", not "off", and hence the
expression
was literally true at the time.


Still hard to believe!
If you calculate the rates of expansion between the two metals there is very
little differance in size from the high temps to low temps. For example
figure a 6" bore and the temps ranging 100 degrees fereinheit. Figuring the
bore and ball fit at the high end, the ball will be only .002" smaller at
the low end of the scale. I don't know what the manufacturing tolerances
were in those days, but I doubt they could maintain +/-.010" let alone
+/-.002".
Greg

Throw in a liberal amount of bore erosion from that nasty powder they used and
swabbing with salt water. I suppose that tolerance opens up quite a bit as this
cannon ages.

On 01 Aug 2004 16:05:08 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

We've all heard the expression, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass
monkey."

Some of us have heard the dubious explanation that a device for holding
cannonballs on a 17th Century warship was called a "monkey", and that the
device was essentially a brass tray. The tray supposedly contracted faster than
the iron cannonballs in cold weather, forcing the precariously balanced
cannonballs to fall "off the monkey". This old chestnut requires more than a
pinch of salt- closer to a barrel. If a change in temperature would force
cannon shot off of holders to roll around the gun deck. what would a normal
seaway do?

Here's what appears to be the straight scoop, once again its an excerpt from
"Ship tp Shore" by Peter D. Jeans.

Monkey, Freeze the balls of/off a brass monkey.......

A coarse expression from the days of sail, which now means extremely cold-
sufficiently cold to prodcue the interesting effect alluded to in the
expression.

In fact, the phrase derives from the brass cannon called a "monkey" in the
seventeenth century. In very cold temperatures, the iron cannonballs and the
bras cannon would contract at markedly different rates, so much so that the gun
would be unusable. Sailors referred to this phenonenon as "freezing the balls
of a brass monkey," the keyword being "of", not "off", and hence the expression
was literally true at the time.

I just got my copy of this - terrific.

Have you read the "Seafaring Lore and Legends" by the same author?
The language he used is somewhat....er...."stiff", but the material is
very interesting.

Thanks for the info - I love the book.

Later,

Tom

On 01 Aug 2004 16:05:08 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
Sailors referred to this phenonenon as "freezing the balls
of a brass monkey," the keyword being "of", not "off", and hence the expression
was literally true at the time.

==============================================

Frankly I doubt it (athough it's a good story nevertheless). I
suspect it was used by sailors as a humorous expression just as it is
now, made all the more humorous by the fact that "brass monkeys" did
in fact exist aboard ship.

Sort of a double entendre as it were. (extra style points will be
awarded for the first submission of a triple entendre with half
gainer)

Frankly I doubt it (athough it's a good story nevertheless). I
suspect it was used by sailors as a humorous expression just as it is
now, made all the more humorous by the fact that "brass monkeys" did
in fact exist aboard ship.

And some of them had balls. Look at the drawings of swivel mounted guns. :-)

the British Navy says "Balderdash", or some such. They claim shot was *never*
stored that way, but rather on shelves with holes in it.

Sailors referred to this phenonenon as "freezing the balls
of a brass monkey," the keyword being "of", not "off", and hence the
expression
was literally true at the time.

==============================================

Frankly I doubt it (athough it's a good story nevertheless). I
suspect it was used by sailors as a humorous expression just as it is
now, made all the more humorous by the fact that "brass monkeys" did
in fact exist aboard ship.

Sort of a double entendre as it were. (extra style points will be
awarded for the first submission of a triple entendre with half
gainer)