Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:07:49 -0500, DSK wrote:
Yep, that must be why so many hi-tech racing sailboats are built with wooden hull
structures. It's hard to pick between carbon fiber and this mushy unfastenable
stuff that will barely even hold up its own weight.

================================================== ======

Yes, and I guess we could also cite the use of balsa wood by model
airplane builders where high strength to weight ratios have made it
the construction material of choice for many years.

I'm never quite sure where "K" is coming from with some of these
assertions. If she is playing devils advocate in the hope of drawing
people into the fray with more information, good job. Otherwise,
yikes.


Ms. Smith has absolutely no credentials. If you start there and keep
that in mind, what follows under her "byline" is consistent with her
lack of technical education, training or work experiences.

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Karl Denninger wrote:

In article . net,
Lawrence James wrote:
But there are better materials and most of them are not subject to water
intrusion or rotting. The biggest weakness in most fiberglass boats is the
wood. If it was not for the wood a properly constructed fiberglass boat
would last forever. Anyone buying a new boat today should be considering no
wood models seriously.

Bull****.

A core that gets water in it will be destroyed by hydraulic action, and once
it is disbonded the strength of the cored structure is gone.

There are VERY FEW composites that compare to wood. The few that do
nobody uses due to their expense, and the difficulty in properly bonding to
them.

Corecell and similar materials have no compression or shear strength at all
compared to even end-grain balsa, and are a pure joke compared to XL plywood.

The key is to keep the water out of it.

--


Good grief; I am in total agreement on this issue with Karl.
Hell must have frozen over.

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Mole wrote:

I don't disagree with you that wood is an acceptable material for boats. It
brought Columbus here...the vikings, etc. lol So it's proved itself. I got
the impression you were comparing wood framing in construction to boat
framing...that's all.

No, I'm not making that kind of comparison. I'm just point out that wood
is a perfectly suitable structural material when properly used.



By the way...that's a nice looking boat of yours. Parker is also on my list
for the next boat. If they didn't mistreat me here at the local dealer I
probably would have one right now. But the dealer was arrogant. When I
asked if he had one for me to look at (the 21' Sport Cabin) his only answer
was "I have a yard full of boats". Ok...like I didn't know that? And he
refused to get up off his as* to show me around. lol So I left. But I'll
give him a second chance in two years.

Where are you located? I have first-hand knowledge of two quality Parker
dealers, one in Deale, Maryland, and the other up on Long Island.




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I totally don't get why you guys are defending the use of wood in fiberglass
boat construction?

On any fiberglass boat over 15 years old what is the one thing that scares
you the most? Rotten transom or rotten stringers. While they can be fixed,
the job is hell. Blisters are just cosmetic.

I'm not defending the use of foam cored stuff like they use topside. Can't
use that junk below the water line.

"Karl Denninger" wrote in message
...

In article , WaIIy To
wrote:
On 20 Nov 2003 21:20:36 GMT, (Karl Denninger)
wrote:

The key is to keep the water out of it.

Which isn't impossible, but sometimes difficult.

I like the Alfred E. Neuman philosophy for stringers..

"I use foam, What, Me Worry?"

Even better are stringers that don't depend on the core for their
strength.

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Lawrence James wrote:
I totally don't get why you guys are defending the use of wood in fiberglass
boat construction?

Because there's nothing wrong with wood stringers properly designed and
encapsulated.


On any fiberglass boat over 15 years old what is the one thing that scares
you the most?

Gel coat pox. And swoopy bubble boat design.

Blisters are just cosmetic.

Yeah, just like acne.



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Harry Krause wrote:
K Smith wrote:



Gees louise you really think a house frame is the same thing??? You
have no concept do you, try picking a wooden house up say 4ft by one
corner then drop it as you pick the opposing side up the same 4 ft.
You'll have barbie fuel for longer than it would take for you to tell
the truth about the time. Timber house bearers weight almost as much as
the highest loads they're ever likely to see & again if you stopped &
thought about things you'd realise whenever timber is used as a
structural load bearing materieal it's in compression, never in tension,
because in tension it will fail usually where the tension force is
applied. Boats aren't static they get constantly attacked by forces from
all angles, not to mention the regular tangles with a wharf or sandbar
at varying speeds.



Please explain in detail how the XL plywood stringer system in boats
engineered by Grady-White and some others are not up to the stresses
encountered in offshore fishing situations.




It might be a "normal" process when you glass over wood because resins
will not ever properly bond to wood


You ought to send your resume to Grady-White. I'm sure they'd be
interested in hiring you because in your opinion, the boats they build
are likely to fall apart any moment; their stringers are constructed of
XL plywood covered in fiberglass.

But what could Grady-White know about boat=building, compared to the
Australian bull**** artist, Karen Elizabeth Smith?

Gee now there's a killer rejoinder, some people still use wood
therefore wood must be good??? Harry if you had any education whatsoever
you'd never come out with these childish arguments.



Karen, I have more formal education that you do, and I know quite a bit
more about structural problems -without having to look up the questions
and the answers in books - than you will ever know. What you are
attempting to do here is to portmanteau a belief of yours into some
general rules about wood boat construction. The point is, properly
designed, engineered and constructed wood boat structure is perfectly
adequate for its purpose. Some boat builders know how to handle wood,
and others do not. Oh, and yes, the fact that Grady-White and some other
top-of-the-line builders still use wood does mean it is "still good."
Grady and several others have the wherewithal to build the stringers in
their boats out of any material they wish. They're not building price
boats.











I'd like to also disagree with this if I may. Hollow sections are

never

as strong as three dimensional webbed or bulkheaded sections. i.e. say
in steel a rolled hollow section (RHS) of a given weight is never as
strong as as a universal column (RSJ) of the same weight.


An important principle to keep in mind when building small boats, eh?

Yep absolutely if you can understand the general principles of how
materials are used you can use that in all sorts of innovative new ways,
do you want a link to the rec boats page for a classic example??



More Karen lifts from engineering webpages, but no understanding of
materials or applications.




Harry that was just a quick off the cuff answer to what I saw as a
sweeping statement about cored beams which I tried to counter & actually
explain why I disagreed. It's no surprise you can't understand it but as
with so many other things here at least I've tried.



Puh-lease, Karen. You've not seen nor have I ever posted one example of
my professional writings on building structure and the effects on it of
hurricane-force winds and seismic activity. I haven't done any of these
in at least 10 year, but at the time I was field researching,
photographing and writing these reports, they were quite accurate,
topical and well-received by their intended audiences.

I wasn't going to bother with you, but hey another lie to add to your
works, so I'll reply just to make sure I have it; thanks:-)



As I have explained here before, Karen, you are such a ****-poor writer
that I find spending any time examining your posts and posits painful to
my eyes. It isn't just the differences in "language," either. You're a
careless, sloppy writer, and your command of grammar, syntax, spelling
and word usage is fifth-rate. You would have flunked one of the bonehead
English classes I taught way back when.





As for the rest of your comments I guess all I can say is tell me where
I can even see let alone inspect other reasonable HP diesel OB motors, I
mean even Yanmar gave up at 40 HP so till you find the latest diesel OBs
in the same HP range as mine




Yeah, I'm sure the world is beating a path to your door. If your crappy
old slapped together diesel outboard is so great, why isn't anyone
substantial manufacturing it?


.......... The boat?? yep; she's old &

yes she works for her keep but it's my boat independently verifiable to
anyone, which is more than can be said of you or your made up fantasy

boats


Uh-huh. There's been verification that Yo Ho is our boat, dearie. You're
just in a permanent snit that someone did "verify" that and you refuse
to accept his word. The reality is, if I allowed you to see the
registration, you wouldn't believe that, either, because your ditzy
little mind is closed.

No chance!!!! absolutely none!! you're a lying BS'ter, no chance, you
don't own that boat any more than you've owned any of the other boats
you've claimed here. As for the other boat you currently claim to own,
the lobster boat, that's one of your bigger lies in a collection of huge
lies.


K

Another rendition of Harry that requires blocking, just can't stick with one
id can you.
Good bye

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:07:49 -0500, DSK wrote:
Yep, that must be why so many hi-tech racing sailboats are built with
wooden hull
structures. It's hard to pick between carbon fiber and this mushy
unfastenable
stuff that will barely even hold up its own weight.

================================================== ======

Yes, and I guess we could also cite the use of balsa wood by model
airplane builders where high strength to weight ratios have made it
the construction material of choice for many years.

I'm never quite sure where "K" is coming from with some of these
assertions. If she is playing devils advocate in the hope of drawing
people into the fray with more information, good job. Otherwise,
yikes.


Ms. Smith has absolutely no credentials. If you start there and keep
that in mind, what follows under her "byline" is consistent with her
lack of technical education, training or work experiences.

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K Smith wrote in message ...
Harry Krause wrote:
K Smith wrote:



Wood is not a very strong material at all.


Bull****. Wood is a very strong material when used appropriately.

Not according to any rational analysis. It's cheap & renewable to some
extent & still has some traditional uses but in actual structural
situations it's about the worst choice. However you are certainly
entitled to put your opinion, just so long as you don't deny me the same
right.

Bull****. Wood is an EXCELLENT structural medium. Even common fir, not
a particularly hard wood, has a bending stress capacity (Fb) of
somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 psi.

K Smith wrote:

No chance!!!! absolutely none!! you're a lying BS'ter, no chance, you
don't own that boat any more than you've owned any of the other boats
you've claimed here.

Congratulations, Karen. After all these posts, you've certainly managed
to convince yourself of your knowledge and veracity.



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Paul Schilter wrote:

Another rendition of Harry that requires blocking, just can't stick with one
id can you.
Good bye

Poor, poor pitiful Paul Schilter;
He woke up this morning, all out of kilter.
He pulled on his pants, put on his shirt
And then spent his day playing with his filter.




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