On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:02:38 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

I guess this is the issue, I'm considering getting a late vintage
1980's, 30 foot Sea Ray and I'm not sure how important the wood's integrity
is. I'm under the impression it played a vital role rather than a place
holder for the glass.

==============================================

That's a good assumption, the wood is almost always there as a
structural element. Hire the best surveyor you can find and have him
check everything out carefully. Some of the 20 year old Sea Ray's
have not held up particularly well, but there are always exceptions.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:45:08 +1100, K Smith wrote:

As soon as it's removed from it's roots & leaves life
support it just become mulch indeed even trees throw those limbs off
rather than risk the rot spreading.

===========================================

Since your trees are upside down, where do the limbs fall?

Once again you are confusing stiffness (flexibility) with strength.

And the structural properties of rotted wood are not at issue either,
since that relates to durability, not strength. Properly protected
from the elements, wood lasts a verrry lonnnng time.

K Smith wrote:

.. With respect I don't think so indeed wood is of such low structural
strength at any sort of unsupported span is usually limited by the
weight of the wood itself.

Yep, that must be why so many hi-tech racing sailboats are built with wooden hull
structures. It's hard to pick between carbon fiber and this mushy unfastenable
stuff that will barely even hold up its own weight.

K.Smith your credibility was already low, but it's sinking even further.

DSK

Lawrence James wrote:

I suggest you take a look at some standard floor joist simple span tables
and see just what it takes to span 10 feet. Conventional wood is not very
resistant to flexing. A lot of other things are stronger.

I suggest you educte yourself about wood boat construction.

http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/u.../composite.htm

Floor joists notwithstanding, wood is one of the best boatbuilding materials.
It's only in the past ten years (or a bit less actually) that carbon fiber has
become predominant over cold molded wood.

Boats are not built like houses.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Wayne,
Good advise, I definitely plan a survey.
Paul

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:02:38 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

I guess this is the issue, I'm considering getting a late vintage
1980's, 30 foot Sea Ray and I'm not sure how important the wood's
integrity
is. I'm under the impression it played a vital role rather than a place
holder for the glass.

==============================================

That's a good assumption, the wood is almost always there as a
structural element. Hire the best surveyor you can find and have him
check everything out carefully. Some of the 20 year old Sea Ray's
have not held up particularly well, but there are always exceptions.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:07:49 -0500, DSK wrote:
Yep, that must be why so many hi-tech racing sailboats are built with wooden hull
structures. It's hard to pick between carbon fiber and this mushy unfastenable
stuff that will barely even hold up its own weight.

================================================== ======

Yes, and I guess we could also cite the use of balsa wood by model
airplane builders where high strength to weight ratios have made it
the construction material of choice for many years.

I'm never quite sure where "K" is coming from with some of these
assertions. If she is playing devils advocate in the hope of drawing
people into the fray with more information, good job. Otherwise,
yikes.

Oh and that's why there are so many old boats still around. Because wood is
such a good material to build boats with.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 20 Nov 2003 21:20:36 GMT, (Karl Denninger)
wrote:

The key is to keep the water out of it.

Which isn't impossible, but sometimes difficult.

I like the Alfred E. Neuman philosophy for stringers..

"I use foam, What, Me Worry?"

I don't disagree with you that wood is an acceptable material for boats. It
brought Columbus here...the vikings, etc. lol So it's proved itself. I got
the impression you were comparing wood framing in construction to boat
framing...that's all.

By the way...that's a nice looking boat of yours. Parker is also on my list
for the next boat. If they didn't mistreat me here at the local dealer I
probably would have one right now. But the dealer was arrogant. When I
asked if he had one for me to look at (the 21' Sport Cabin) his only answer
was "I have a yard full of boats". Ok...like I didn't know that? And he
refused to get up off his as* to show me around. lol So I left. But I'll
give him a second chance in two years.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Mole wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:c3dhc2g=.82627d12784c03afb2097e72f24ffd36@106 9256316.cotse.net...
K Smith wrote:


Really? Gosh. There probably are 100 million wood frame houses in the
united states, some more than 100 years old. I suppose that because of
the weakness of wood and the difficulties of attaching it to anyting,
even itself, are really problematical, eh?

Don't twist those houses or they fall down. Don't suddenly lower the
pressure...the nails come out. Don't let the weather barrier get
compromised or they rot. Don't compare house construction to boat
construction. They don't even come close.



I'm not comparing house construction to boat construction. The point,
and perhaps I was too subtle, is that wood frame construction is strong
enough for houses, and wood is strong enough for boat stringers,
assuming whoever does the design does it properly and the design is
correctly implemented and the wood protected.

Karen Elizabeth Smith "gets off" on these little tangents of hers, but
they mostly are absurd or border on it. Wood is a fine boatbuilding
material, and has been for thousands of years. It certainly is "strong
enough" to be used as a boatbuilding material. Does wood have
shortcomings? Of course it does, but so does every other boatbuilding
material.

Ms. Smith is quick to castigate for what she perceives to be "problems"
in the designs and manufacture of boats generally, and, more typically,
boat engines, a position that really is not defensible, if you take a
look at the barely floating derelict of a boat she calls her own and the
rusting piece of crap "diesel outboard" engine with which she
underpowers it.



--
Email sent to is never read.

DSK wrote:

K Smith wrote:

.. With respect I don't think so indeed wood is of such low structural
strength at any sort of unsupported span is usually limited by the
weight of the wood itself.

Yep, that must be why so many hi-tech racing sailboats are built with wooden hull
structures. It's hard to pick between carbon fiber and this mushy unfastenable
stuff that will barely even hold up its own weight.

K.Smith your credibility was already low, but it's sinking even further.

DSK


Our Ms. Smith thinks if she throws enough badly written b.s. at the
wall, some of it will stick.

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:47:44 GMT, "Lawrence James"
wrote:

Oh and that's why there are so many old boats still around. Because wood is
such a good material to build boats with.

================================================== ====

More baloney. Those wood boats that have received the proper care and
maintenance over the years ARE still around. It's well understood
that they do require more care and maintenance, and that is the issue
for most people. We have a sailboat boat at my club in Connecticut
that was built from epoxy saturated cedar strips back in the early
70s. It requires almost no special maintenance because of the
encapsulation, and it is still one of the lightest, fastest 30 footers
in our region.