Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:15:19 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Horsecrap.

Government is the ultimate impeder of the free market. A free market
needs no government to operate.


Government is involved fundamentally through the creation and
enforcement of property rights, without which what you are calling a
"free market" cannot be achieved.

Nonsense! The free market existed centuries ago, long before such
formalities as "property rights" even existed.

We're not living centuries ago...although you obviously want to be, eh?





I'm involved in a worldwide project that has as one of its goals the
establishment of a methodology that enables poor people in undeveloped
countries to rebuild their little villages and set up businesses.

Ah! This is good. Bring those poor areas up to our "greedy" capitalist
standards and there will be little incentive to outsource to those
areas. Equalization in living standards is a goal that we should all
push for.


Financial resources are needed to finance these projects, as is some way
to "secure" the real property on which these businesses might be
established. But in some of these countries, the concept of land title
or even ownership is unknown. Right now, I suppose, these folks have a
true free market...they can barter...but they are going nowhere.

What were you just saying about free market not working without the
mighty government putting its hands into everyone's pockets? Thank you
for helping me make my point.

Uh, these people are impoverished. The "free market" ain't working for
them. They aren't even at a subsistence level.




They
need government to help them establish a framework in which they can
developed a real marketplace.

They "need" nothing of the sort, unless you are trying to accelerate
decades of industrial and social progress into a few years. That's not
without inherent risk however.

Dave

What the hell would you know about what they need?

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:47:01 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:15:19 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Horsecrap.

Government is the ultimate impeder of the free market. A free market
needs no government to operate.


Government is involved fundamentally through the creation and
enforcement of property rights, without which what you are calling a
"free market" cannot be achieved.

Nonsense! The free market existed centuries ago, long before such
formalities as "property rights" even existed.

We're not living centuries ago...although you obviously want to be, eh?

Not at all. I was simply illustrating that a concept such as the free
market was a viable economic model, in days long before we felt the
need to overly complicate the system with governmental controls and
oversight.


I'm involved in a worldwide project that has as one of its goals the
establishment of a methodology that enables poor people in undeveloped
countries to rebuild their little villages and set up businesses.

Ah! This is good. Bring those poor areas up to our "greedy" capitalist
standards and there will be little incentive to outsource to those
areas. Equalization in living standards is a goal that we should all
push for.


Financial resources are needed to finance these projects, as is some way
to "secure" the real property on which these businesses might be
established. But in some of these countries, the concept of land title
or even ownership is unknown. Right now, I suppose, these folks have a
true free market...they can barter...but they are going nowhere.

What were you just saying about free market not working without the
mighty government putting its hands into everyone's pockets? Thank you
for helping me make my point.

Uh, these people are impoverished. The "free market" ain't working for
them. They aren't even at a subsistence level.

By our modern standards they are impoverished. But they survive, as we
did centuries ago. It was a much simpler life. In many ways, we were
better off.


They
need government to help them establish a framework in which they can
developed a real marketplace.

They "need" nothing of the sort, unless you are trying to accelerate
decades of industrial and social progress into a few years. That's not
without inherent risk however.

Dave

What the hell would you know about what they need?

I would not be so arrogant as to presume that they "need" us to
accelerate their social evolution. I'd be willing to bet that these
people didn't seek out assistance. More likely we gently "suggested"
that they'd be better off to "let" us move them into this century.

Dave