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#32
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:28:06 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote:
On 8/16/20 9:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:10:20 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/16/20 2:13 PM, wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 02:53:24 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 8:18 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 1:00 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:03:27 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/14/20 10:16 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:06:58 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. We haven't had a leader who could get people to blindly do what he said since Eisenhower and JFK. By the time of LBJ, a significant part of the population, mostly young people, said "you are not the boss of me" and that still prevails. If you look at where the spike in infections really is, you see the 40 crowd. In spite of the spike in infections in Florida the death rate is down and the number of hospitalizations is down. Less than a quarter of the people in the Lee hospital system (our biggest conglomerate) are there for Covid. The hype greatly exceeds the reality. What seems to be happening is we are building the herd immunity in the millennials and younger the old fashioned way. They get it, they get over it and they move on. Just don't kiss your grand daughter if you are worried about it. === True leadership requires laying out a well reasoned plan of action that people believe in, and will follow willingly. What percentage of the population have to be true believers and lemmings, to qualify true leadership? Our country is too diverse to reach consensus on most any topic. Which God like human could ever do what you say. Ronald Reagan was the last American to come even close. There was still a significant part of the population that was not going to do anything "Ray Guns" wanted them to do. What is the highest percentage of the population that you would consider insignificant? 41 million people voted against Reagan in 80 and 37.5M in 84. Most never changed their minds about him and many were quite vocal about it. Thats not what I asked. You are beginning to sound like Fat Harry. After watching what the minuscule minority can do I would say there is no "insignificant" population as long as they can get support from the media and the majority is ignored. Is that what you asked? I suppose the point is the media is the leader and the politicians only need to appeal to that narrow minority who run the 4 big media companies to look like leaders but they are not really leading anything. In the case of this Covid, other than lockdowns, quarantines and travel restrictions, there is really no effective strategy, proven so far so they try to placate us with masks so we think we are doing something. In the mean time our economy is circling the bowl and the "leaders" are trying to take our minds off of it because they don't have a plan for that either. John points to the reopening guidelines but that just tells us why we have to keep our knee on the neck of the economy. It is not a plan to fix the economic problems. If the country was totally open tomorrow, there is still trillions of dollars of damage done that may never be recovered. I still think Sweden has the right idea. They may lose a lot of people compared to Denmark but I think in the long run they will be better off economically and physically. I guess any number greater than 0 is a significant number. I dont understand what point you were making. Any strategy the administration employs will be picked apart by the democrats and liberal media because that's what the do. A ton of money was spent and decisions were made that slowed the economy and put people out of work, in order to save lives. You say it would have been better to leave things alone and hope herd imunity would be our savior. Would you be critical of the administration if they had taken that path? I think the path may have been overreaching. At a certain point Sweden's idea may not turn out to be that horrible. If you are just flattening the curve but dragging out the misery for 2 years and ending up pretty much where you would have been if you took less draconian measures, was that the right path? Would a less draconian path had less impact on the economy? We really won't know until this is over but at our present trajectory that could be years. The question will be if there is an economy left to reopen. I know business people who said they were prepared for a rainy day but this is Noah's flood and if you remember that fable, only 2 of every species survived. Every other living thing died. I think flattening the curve allowed the medics to catch up and keep up with the demand for their services and use of their facilities. Nobody was able to come up with a plan to do this without damaging the economy. Politics might have stood in the way of managing this pandemic better. And that's very sad to even imagine. I think that was oversold too for most of the country. New York was pretty much the worst case scenario and the hospital ship we paid a hundred million to send there went pretty much unused. As scary as the headlines were Florida never ran out of hospital beds. Some particular buildings may have been slammed but there were other beds available. In most cases it wasn't even the beds they were short of, it was staff because we typically send them up north in the summer or lay them off. Our biggest hospital was still only about 40% covid patients when they were approaching the staff limit. They just brought in more staff. |
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#33
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On 8/17/20 10:02 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:28:06 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/16/20 9:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:10:20 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/16/20 2:13 PM, wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 02:53:24 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 8:18 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 1:00 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:03:27 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/14/20 10:16 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:06:58 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. We haven't had a leader who could get people to blindly do what he said since Eisenhower and JFK. By the time of LBJ, a significant part of the population, mostly young people, said "you are not the boss of me" and that still prevails. If you look at where the spike in infections really is, you see the 40 crowd. In spite of the spike in infections in Florida the death rate is down and the number of hospitalizations is down. Less than a quarter of the people in the Lee hospital system (our biggest conglomerate) are there for Covid. The hype greatly exceeds the reality. What seems to be happening is we are building the herd immunity in the millennials and younger the old fashioned way. They get it, they get over it and they move on. Just don't kiss your grand daughter if you are worried about it. === True leadership requires laying out a well reasoned plan of action that people believe in, and will follow willingly. What percentage of the population have to be true believers and lemmings, to qualify true leadership? Our country is too diverse to reach consensus on most any topic. Which God like human could ever do what you say. Ronald Reagan was the last American to come even close. There was still a significant part of the population that was not going to do anything "Ray Guns" wanted them to do. What is the highest percentage of the population that you would consider insignificant? 41 million people voted against Reagan in 80 and 37.5M in 84. Most never changed their minds about him and many were quite vocal about it. Thats not what I asked. You are beginning to sound like Fat Harry. After watching what the minuscule minority can do I would say there is no "insignificant" population as long as they can get support from the media and the majority is ignored. Is that what you asked? I suppose the point is the media is the leader and the politicians only need to appeal to that narrow minority who run the 4 big media companies to look like leaders but they are not really leading anything. In the case of this Covid, other than lockdowns, quarantines and travel restrictions, there is really no effective strategy, proven so far so they try to placate us with masks so we think we are doing something. In the mean time our economy is circling the bowl and the "leaders" are trying to take our minds off of it because they don't have a plan for that either. John points to the reopening guidelines but that just tells us why we have to keep our knee on the neck of the economy. It is not a plan to fix the economic problems. If the country was totally open tomorrow, there is still trillions of dollars of damage done that may never be recovered. I still think Sweden has the right idea. They may lose a lot of people compared to Denmark but I think in the long run they will be better off economically and physically. I guess any number greater than 0 is a significant number. I dont understand what point you were making. Any strategy the administration employs will be picked apart by the democrats and liberal media because that's what the do. A ton of money was spent and decisions were made that slowed the economy and put people out of work, in order to save lives. You say it would have been better to leave things alone and hope herd imunity would be our savior. Would you be critical of the administration if they had taken that path? I think the path may have been overreaching. At a certain point Sweden's idea may not turn out to be that horrible. If you are just flattening the curve but dragging out the misery for 2 years and ending up pretty much where you would have been if you took less draconian measures, was that the right path? Would a less draconian path had less impact on the economy? We really won't know until this is over but at our present trajectory that could be years. The question will be if there is an economy left to reopen. I know business people who said they were prepared for a rainy day but this is Noah's flood and if you remember that fable, only 2 of every species survived. Every other living thing died. I think flattening the curve allowed the medics to catch up and keep up with the demand for their services and use of their facilities. Nobody was able to come up with a plan to do this without damaging the economy. Politics might have stood in the way of managing this pandemic better. And that's very sad to even imagine. I think that was oversold too for most of the country. New York was pretty much the worst case scenario and the hospital ship we paid a hundred million to send there went pretty much unused. As scary as the headlines were Florida never ran out of hospital beds. Some particular buildings may have been slammed but there were other beds available. In most cases it wasn't even the beds they were short of, it was staff because we typically send them up north in the summer or lay them off. Our biggest hospital was still only about 40% covid patients when they were approaching the staff limit. They just brought in more staff. Its a lot easier to quarterback after the fact. Only the real quarterback is held accountable. A PINO like the last one would have left us in much worse shape do to his lack of managerial skills. |
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#34
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. And I would agree with that. Having a narcissistic, immature, mouthy leader is not doing the country any good. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#35
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:35:16 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote:
On 8/14/20 7:09 AM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. And Trump is doing his best to school that leadership in managing their states. Never has there been a president more mindful and respectful of states rights and responsibilities. I don't agree wholeheartedly with that. His initial comments ('it's no problem), his pushing of 'remedies' (Hydroxychloroquine) even after shown unuseable, his arguing with his own CDC and NIH people, his immature bickering and tweeting with or about various governors, his continuous repitition of the same **** when giving his briefings (I think he's told the ventilator story about 37 times now), and some of the stupid claims he's made (New Zealand has a crisis, for example) have not been what I would consider attributes of a good leader. I'm thinking he's purposely trying to throw the election with his mouth and his tweets. But, he's better than the alternative. Right now I feel the opposite of most Democrats who are voting 'against' Trump but not 'for' Biden. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#36
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 00:16:05 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:06:58 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. We haven't had a leader who could get people to blindly do what he said since Eisenhower and JFK. By the time of LBJ, a significant part of the population, mostly young people, said "you are not the boss of me" and that still prevails. If you look at where the spike in infections really is, you see the 40 crowd. In spite of the spike in infections in Florida the death rate is down and the number of hospitalizations is down. Less than a quarter of the people in the Lee hospital system (our biggest conglomerate) are there for Covid. The hype greatly exceeds the reality. What seems to be happening is we are building the herd immunity in the millennials and younger the old fashioned way. They get it, they get over it and they move on. Just don't kiss your grand daughter if you are worried about it. === True leadership requires laying out a well reasoned plan of action that people believe in, and will follow willingly. Wayne, I don't think any leadership could resolve the discipline problems in this country. We have far too many selfish people who simply don't give a **** about others. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#37
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 16:13:12 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 02:53:24 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 8:18 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 1:00 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:03:27 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/14/20 10:16 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:06:58 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. We haven't had a leader who could get people to blindly do what he said since Eisenhower and JFK. By the time of LBJ, a significant part of the population, mostly young people, said "you are not the boss of me" and that still prevails. If you look at where the spike in infections really is, you see the 40 crowd. In spite of the spike in infections in Florida the death rate is down and the number of hospitalizations is down. Less than a quarter of the people in the Lee hospital system (our biggest conglomerate) are there for Covid. The hype greatly exceeds the reality. What seems to be happening is we are building the herd immunity in the millennials and younger the old fashioned way. They get it, they get over it and they move on. Just don't kiss your grand daughter if you are worried about it. === True leadership requires laying out a well reasoned plan of action that people believe in, and will follow willingly. What percentage of the population have to be true believers and lemmings, to qualify true leadership? Our country is too diverse to reach consensus on most any topic. Which God like human could ever do what you say. Ronald Reagan was the last American to come even close. There was still a significant part of the population that was not going to do anything "Ray Guns" wanted them to do. What is the highest percentage of the population that you would consider insignificant? 41 million people voted against Reagan in 80 and 37.5M in 84. Most never changed their minds about him and many were quite vocal about it. Thats not what I asked. You are beginning to sound like Fat Harry. After watching what the minuscule minority can do I would say there is no "insignificant" population as long as they can get support from the media and the majority is ignored. Is that what you asked? I suppose the point is the media is the leader and the politicians only need to appeal to that narrow minority who run the 4 big media companies to look like leaders but they are not really leading anything. In the case of this Covid, other than lockdowns, quarantines and travel restrictions, there is really no effective strategy, proven so far so they try to placate us with masks so we think we are doing something. In the mean time our economy is circling the bowl and the "leaders" are trying to take our minds off of it because they don't have a plan for that either. John points to the reopening guidelines but that just tells us why we have to keep our knee on the neck of the economy. It is not a plan to fix the economic problems. If the country was totally open tomorrow, there is still trillions of dollars of damage done that may never be recovered. I still think Sweden has the right idea. They may lose a lot of people compared to Denmark but I think in the long run they will be better off economically and physically. Do you think it's remotely possible to 'fix' the economy *without* reopening? Sweden may well have *had* the right idea, leaving things open, but we closed things down. Now we have to reopen, and the CDC has developed guidelines (a plan) for doing so. Geeeze! -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#38
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:28:06 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote:
On 8/16/20 9:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:10:20 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/16/20 2:13 PM, wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 02:53:24 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 8:18 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 1:00 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:03:27 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/14/20 10:16 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:06:58 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. We haven't had a leader who could get people to blindly do what he said since Eisenhower and JFK. By the time of LBJ, a significant part of the population, mostly young people, said "you are not the boss of me" and that still prevails. If you look at where the spike in infections really is, you see the 40 crowd. In spite of the spike in infections in Florida the death rate is down and the number of hospitalizations is down. Less than a quarter of the people in the Lee hospital system (our biggest conglomerate) are there for Covid. The hype greatly exceeds the reality. What seems to be happening is we are building the herd immunity in the millennials and younger the old fashioned way. They get it, they get over it and they move on. Just don't kiss your grand daughter if you are worried about it. === True leadership requires laying out a well reasoned plan of action that people believe in, and will follow willingly. What percentage of the population have to be true believers and lemmings, to qualify true leadership? Our country is too diverse to reach consensus on most any topic. Which God like human could ever do what you say. Ronald Reagan was the last American to come even close. There was still a significant part of the population that was not going to do anything "Ray Guns" wanted them to do. What is the highest percentage of the population that you would consider insignificant? 41 million people voted against Reagan in 80 and 37.5M in 84. Most never changed their minds about him and many were quite vocal about it. Thats not what I asked. You are beginning to sound like Fat Harry. After watching what the minuscule minority can do I would say there is no "insignificant" population as long as they can get support from the media and the majority is ignored. Is that what you asked? I suppose the point is the media is the leader and the politicians only need to appeal to that narrow minority who run the 4 big media companies to look like leaders but they are not really leading anything. In the case of this Covid, other than lockdowns, quarantines and travel restrictions, there is really no effective strategy, proven so far so they try to placate us with masks so we think we are doing something. In the mean time our economy is circling the bowl and the "leaders" are trying to take our minds off of it because they don't have a plan for that either. John points to the reopening guidelines but that just tells us why we have to keep our knee on the neck of the economy. It is not a plan to fix the economic problems. If the country was totally open tomorrow, there is still trillions of dollars of damage done that may never be recovered. I still think Sweden has the right idea. They may lose a lot of people compared to Denmark but I think in the long run they will be better off economically and physically. I guess any number greater than 0 is a significant number. I dont understand what point you were making. Any strategy the administration employs will be picked apart by the democrats and liberal media because that's what the do. A ton of money was spent and decisions were made that slowed the economy and put people out of work, in order to save lives. You say it would have been better to leave things alone and hope herd imunity would be our savior. Would you be critical of the administration if they had taken that path? I think the path may have been overreaching. At a certain point Sweden's idea may not turn out to be that horrible. If you are just flattening the curve but dragging out the misery for 2 years and ending up pretty much where you would have been if you took less draconian measures, was that the right path? Would a less draconian path had less impact on the economy? We really won't know until this is over but at our present trajectory that could be years. The question will be if there is an economy left to reopen. I know business people who said they were prepared for a rainy day but this is Noah's flood and if you remember that fable, only 2 of every species survived. Every other living thing died. I think flattening the curve allowed the medics to catch up and keep up with the demand for their services and use of their facilities. Nobody was able to come up with a plan to do this without damaging the economy. Politics might have stood in the way of managing this pandemic better. And that's very sad to even imagine. Exactly! -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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#39
posted to rec.boats
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:02:17 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:28:06 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/16/20 9:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:10:20 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/16/20 2:13 PM, wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 02:53:24 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 8:18 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/15/20 1:00 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:03:27 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote: On 8/14/20 10:16 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:06:58 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:09:41 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:40 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:35:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. I don't see the government inciting the fight. It's as simple as some folks won't wear a mask, and others are ****ed because they are the ones being put at risk, while they are wearing their masks and protecting the asshole that won't. Sums it up nicely. What we lack in this country is discipline. -- === And that is mostly a result of poor leadership. We haven't had a leader who could get people to blindly do what he said since Eisenhower and JFK. By the time of LBJ, a significant part of the population, mostly young people, said "you are not the boss of me" and that still prevails. If you look at where the spike in infections really is, you see the 40 crowd. In spite of the spike in infections in Florida the death rate is down and the number of hospitalizations is down. Less than a quarter of the people in the Lee hospital system (our biggest conglomerate) are there for Covid. The hype greatly exceeds the reality. What seems to be happening is we are building the herd immunity in the millennials and younger the old fashioned way. They get it, they get over it and they move on. Just don't kiss your grand daughter if you are worried about it. === True leadership requires laying out a well reasoned plan of action that people believe in, and will follow willingly. What percentage of the population have to be true believers and lemmings, to qualify true leadership? Our country is too diverse to reach consensus on most any topic. Which God like human could ever do what you say. Ronald Reagan was the last American to come even close. There was still a significant part of the population that was not going to do anything "Ray Guns" wanted them to do. What is the highest percentage of the population that you would consider insignificant? 41 million people voted against Reagan in 80 and 37.5M in 84. Most never changed their minds about him and many were quite vocal about it. Thats not what I asked. You are beginning to sound like Fat Harry. After watching what the minuscule minority can do I would say there is no "insignificant" population as long as they can get support from the media and the majority is ignored. Is that what you asked? I suppose the point is the media is the leader and the politicians only need to appeal to that narrow minority who run the 4 big media companies to look like leaders but they are not really leading anything. In the case of this Covid, other than lockdowns, quarantines and travel restrictions, there is really no effective strategy, proven so far so they try to placate us with masks so we think we are doing something. In the mean time our economy is circling the bowl and the "leaders" are trying to take our minds off of it because they don't have a plan for that either. John points to the reopening guidelines but that just tells us why we have to keep our knee on the neck of the economy. It is not a plan to fix the economic problems. If the country was totally open tomorrow, there is still trillions of dollars of damage done that may never be recovered. I still think Sweden has the right idea. They may lose a lot of people compared to Denmark but I think in the long run they will be better off economically and physically. I guess any number greater than 0 is a significant number. I dont understand what point you were making. Any strategy the administration employs will be picked apart by the democrats and liberal media because that's what the do. A ton of money was spent and decisions were made that slowed the economy and put people out of work, in order to save lives. You say it would have been better to leave things alone and hope herd imunity would be our savior. Would you be critical of the administration if they had taken that path? I think the path may have been overreaching. At a certain point Sweden's idea may not turn out to be that horrible. If you are just flattening the curve but dragging out the misery for 2 years and ending up pretty much where you would have been if you took less draconian measures, was that the right path? Would a less draconian path had less impact on the economy? We really won't know until this is over but at our present trajectory that could be years. The question will be if there is an economy left to reopen. I know business people who said they were prepared for a rainy day but this is Noah's flood and if you remember that fable, only 2 of every species survived. Every other living thing died. I think flattening the curve allowed the medics to catch up and keep up with the demand for their services and use of their facilities. Nobody was able to come up with a plan to do this without damaging the economy. Politics might have stood in the way of managing this pandemic better. And that's very sad to even imagine. I think that was oversold too for most of the country. New York was pretty much the worst case scenario and the hospital ship we paid a hundred million to send there went pretty much unused. As scary as the headlines were Florida never ran out of hospital beds. Some particular buildings may have been slammed but there were other beds available. In most cases it wasn't even the beds they were short of, it was staff because we typically send them up north in the summer or lay them off. Our biggest hospital was still only about 40% covid patients when they were approaching the staff limit. They just brought in more staff. So are you suggesting our attempt (and success) at flattening the curve was unnecessary? No matter how steeply the curve climbed our medical system could have handled it? That's bull**** and you know it. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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Why are we fighting over masks? (as a nation)
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:37:16 -0000 (UTC), Justan wrote:
On 8/14/20 5:45 AM, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 13:35:07 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:27:18 -0400, John wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:16:48 -0400, wrote: We aren't even close to the end of the economic damage. Unemployment is a lot worse than the depression right now. Landlords are starting to worry about if they can actually hold on to their rental property if the renters don't have to pay rent. Lenders are wondering how many defaults they can expect as soon as the dust settles. Businesses are folding all over. GDP in the US sunk by a third in 2q20. I think that is why they want us to fight over masks, to take our mind off of the economy. Who is the 'they' that wants us to fight over masks? Our government, from Trump down to the most junior congressman. It is easier to deal with "maskdebaters" than people who talk about real problems like where will my next meal come from and will I ever find a job.. Oh bull****. -- Freedom Isn't Free! Me thinks Fat Harry left some of his DNA on rec.boats. LOL! -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
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