My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:49:08 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

Greg's just being argumentative. But then again, maybe he does fill up a mask
with spit, sweat, and condensation in an hour shopping.

I was really thinking more about the workers there but if I am in and
out of my car much, I can get pretty sweaty. The car will be over 120
if you are gone more than 15 minutes, parked in the sun.
That is the warning they give us about leaving kids or pets in the
car.

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:20:02 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.

Luckily, most of our stores up here, which is where I'd wear a mask, are air
conditioned.

Aren't yours?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:23:24 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:49:08 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

Greg's just being argumentative. But then again, maybe he does fill up a mask
with spit, sweat, and condensation in an hour shopping.

I was really thinking more about the workers there but if I am in and
out of my car much, I can get pretty sweaty. The car will be over 120
if you are gone more than 15 minutes, parked in the sun.
That is the warning they give us about leaving kids or pets in the
car.

Why would one wear a mask in a hot car? Silly.

And, the workers up here are working in air conditioned stores. In grocery
stores, no one is running!

Get real!
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.



The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

Sounds more like a science fair experiment than a sanitation device.


I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:30:13 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.



The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

Sounds more like a science fair experiment than a sanitation device.


I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.

Greg, when you go shopping, without a mask, just tell the folks around you that
they're wasting their time.

If you honestly believe that a mask won't greatly reduce the aerosol from a
cough or sneeze, then you're displaying a great lack of common sense.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn’t king..
 

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.





The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

Sounds more like a science fair experiment than a sanitation device.


I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:23:24 -0400, wrote:

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do.

===

You probably know this but if you are doing much spray painting, you
need something that will filter the VOCs. An N95 mask will not do
that.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/3m--6000-series-half-facepiece-respirator-large--337538?recordNum=15

VOCs can do nasty things to your central nervous system and brain.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:46:18 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:41:11 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

So change the mask more often. The mask is to be worn when shopping or whatever,
not all day. I went to Costco this morning. All were in masks. Maybe they wore
them for a whole hour while shopping. No sweat, and I didn't spit in it. There
may have been a bit of condensation. But, I'll guarantee that that if I had
coughed or sneezed, much less 'contamination' would be spread than if I had no
mask.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Wrong again. Put your food coloring in your mouth and then cough. Do it with and
without the mask. See which allows the least food coloring to spew out. You need
to get real.


OK great now keep the mask on, breathing through it for a few minutes
and hat food coloring will have come through. stand next to your
wife's favorite white linen table cloth and sneeze. Call me when you
get out of surgery ;-)

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.

When I remove the mask it gets put in a dog poop bag and dumped in the washing
machine.

A little thinking goes a long way, Greg. The cloth masks (use a tightly woven
sheet) are not N95 respirators. But to argue that they won't reduce the aerosol
from a cough or sneeze is ridiculous - regardless of how much you've painted and
sanded.

So people only get a "little bit infected".
Isn't that like a little pregnant?

OTOH does it do anything at all if you are not coughing and sneezing?

Most of us aren't.

My governor isn?t king..
 

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.


We are looking at some precipitation coming in and the present humidity is
65%. Overcast and windy.

My governor isnÂ’t king..
 

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.



The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

Sounds more like a science fair experiment than a sanitation device.


I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.



I think the masks are not to stop the 3 micron virus but the giant sneeze
globs the virus is riding on.

My governor isn?t king..
 

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:23:24 -0400, wrote:

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do.

===

You probably know this but if you are doing much spray painting, you
need something that will filter the VOCs. An N95 mask will not do
that.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/3m--6000-series-half-facepiece-respirator-large--337538?recordNum=15

VOCs can do nasty things to your central nervous system and brain.


The key to that respirator is the filter you attach. 3M makes a one time
use VOC filter that will even let you spray Imron. Use once, dispose.
As to nasty, friend bought his Mooney airplane because of VC,s, guy tried
to save money and painted his plane himself without a mask. I think Imron.
I used the one shot mask when I painted my Dune buggy about 35 years ago.

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:28:22 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:20:02 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.

Luckily, most of our stores up here, which is where I'd wear a mask, are air
conditioned.

Aren't yours?


Not the parking lots. Your car will be a sauna when you get out too.
Maybe the problem is I do more than one thing a day. Usually my trip
out involves at least 4 stops. I try not to go any more often than I
have to. If nothing else, I would be handling that mask 8 times or
more.

Anyway, if it works for you, go for it. I pass.

Out.

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:17:36 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:23:24 -0400, wrote:

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do.

===

You probably know this but if you are doing much spray painting, you
need something that will filter the VOCs. An N95 mask will not do
that.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/3m--6000-series-half-facepiece-respirator-large--337538?recordNum=15

VOCs can do nasty things to your central nervous system and brain.

I have a real rubber mask with filters for what I am shooting if it is
something really nasty like Awl Grip, Imron or whatever but if I am
just using a rattle can, outside, I go with an N-95.
If I actually shot a lot of that poly based paint I would get a
positive pressure mask that would run off my hookah.
These days I worry as much about particulates as anything. I am not
painting as much.

BTW that reminds me, Do you have a fiberglass guy who would gel coat
my spa? I might end up doing it myself but I would pay a guy if I had
someone I could trust. I can prep it but I have never shot gel coat
and I have heard your first swing at that ball might not work out so
good ;-)

Plan B would be to shoot 2 part epoxy of some kind. I suppose I could
brush it but it might be hard with all of the curves. Any kind of
roller is out of the question. I have air

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 00:44:15 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.


We are looking at some precipitation coming in and the present humidity is
65%. Overcast and windy.

They are calling from a front from the north but it is getting close
to being the last one of the year I imagine. Once the tropical weather
takes over, it is the monsoon. Hot and humid every day with a good
chance of a thunderstorm, that may be severe.

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 00:44:17 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:23:24 -0400, wrote:

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do.

===

You probably know this but if you are doing much spray painting, you
need something that will filter the VOCs. An N95 mask will not do
that.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/3m--6000-series-half-facepiece-respirator-large--337538?recordNum=15

VOCs can do nasty things to your central nervous system and brain.


The key to that respirator is the filter you attach. 3M makes a one time
use VOC filter that will even let you spray Imron. Use once, dispose.
As to nasty, friend bought his Mooney airplane because of VC,s, guy tried
to save money and painted his plane himself without a mask. I think Imron.
I used the one shot mask when I painted my Dune buggy about 35 years ago.

Yup, those are the filters I used when I was painting my boat. 2 coats
of Zinc Chromate and 2 coats of a poly based paint similar to
Imron/Awl grip. It lasted about 20 years. I scuffed it up a little and
shot 2 more coats of poly paint on it about 14 years ago.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:34:37 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:30:13 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.



The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

Sounds more like a science fair experiment than a sanitation device.


I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.

Greg, when you go shopping, without a mask, just tell the folks around you that
they're wasting their time.

If you honestly believe that a mask won't greatly reduce the aerosol from a
cough or sneeze, then you're displaying a great lack of common sense.

I am not coughing or sneezing. If I was I might think about it.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:22:06 -0400, wrote:

BTW that reminds me, Do you have a fiberglass guy who would gel coat
my spa? I might end up doing it myself but I would pay a guy if I had
someone I could trust. I can prep it but I have never shot gel coat
and I have heard your first swing at that ball might not work out so
good ;-)

===

Unfortunateky not, but you can get surprisingly good results brushing
or rolling gelcoat (several coats), and then rubbing it out - working
up through the grits to 1500 or so, followed by a good buffing with
rubbing compound. As you are probably aware there are two kinds of
gel coat, one without a wax additive for layering up multiple coats,
and the other type that has the wax additive for the top coat. The
purpose of the wax is to seal out the air which prevents it from
curing all the way. It's kind of fun actually, and of course you want
to practice on some plywood first. The nice thing anout gelcoat is
that it's very easy to repair if you mess up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MWN7kbzutM



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.





If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes
each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not
even talking really ...
do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"?

It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-)



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:25:14 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:46:18 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:41:11 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

So change the mask more often. The mask is to be worn when shopping or whatever,
not all day. I went to Costco this morning. All were in masks. Maybe they wore
them for a whole hour while shopping. No sweat, and I didn't spit in it. There
may have been a bit of condensation. But, I'll guarantee that that if I had
coughed or sneezed, much less 'contamination' would be spread than if I had no
mask.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Wrong again. Put your food coloring in your mouth and then cough. Do it with and
without the mask. See which allows the least food coloring to spew out. You need
to get real.


OK great now keep the mask on, breathing through it for a few minutes
and hat food coloring will have come through. stand next to your
wife's favorite white linen table cloth and sneeze. Call me when you
get out of surgery ;-)

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.

When I remove the mask it gets put in a dog poop bag and dumped in the washing
machine.

A little thinking goes a long way, Greg. The cloth masks (use a tightly woven
sheet) are not N95 respirators. But to argue that they won't reduce the aerosol
from a cough or sneeze is ridiculous - regardless of how much you've painted and
sanded.

So people only get a "little bit infected".
Isn't that like a little pregnant?

If the aerosol in the room is reduced by 80%, my chances of breathing it are
less. That's the name of the game. Reducing risk, given that folks have to eat.

OTOH does it do anything at all if you are not coughing and sneezing?

Other folks may be coughing or sneezing. And, if I've caught the virus, I'll
probably be coughing. That's one of the first symptoms. Also, as one with mild
emphysema, I cough every now and then anyway.

Most of us aren't.

Good, but some of us are.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:29:44 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:34:37 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:30:13 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.



The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

Sounds more like a science fair experiment than a sanitation device.


I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.

Greg, when you go shopping, without a mask, just tell the folks around you that
they're wasting their time.

If you honestly believe that a mask won't greatly reduce the aerosol from a
cough or sneeze, then you're displaying a great lack of common sense.

I am not coughing or sneezing. If I was I might think about it.

When you're shopping, others may be coughing or sneezing. The purpose of their
mask is to protect you. Just show them the same consideration.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.



The purpose of the mask is to protect others, not yourself. If you are an
asymptomatic carrier, the fact that your mask is contaminated doesn't mean ****.
You've already got it. The mask helps contain the aerosol from *your* coughing
and sneezing.

Why don't you just quit fighting it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:11:06 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:28:22 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:20:02 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.

Luckily, most of our stores up here, which is where I'd wear a mask, are air
conditioned.

Aren't yours?


Not the parking lots. Your car will be a sauna when you get out too.
Maybe the problem is I do more than one thing a day. Usually my trip
out involves at least 4 stops. I try not to go any more often than I
have to. If nothing else, I would be handling that mask 8 times or
more.

Anyway, if it works for you, go for it. I pass.

Out.

Jesus. You're unreal. The ****ing mask comes off before I get into the car! And
if you've loaded the mask with the virus, then you've already got it. The mask
protects others, not you!
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn?t king..
 

On 4/30/2020 12:50 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:22:06 -0400, wrote:

BTW that reminds me, Do you have a fiberglass guy who would gel coat
my spa? I might end up doing it myself but I would pay a guy if I had
someone I could trust. I can prep it but I have never shot gel coat
and I have heard your first swing at that ball might not work out so
good ;-)

===

Unfortunateky not, but you can get surprisingly good results brushing
or rolling gelcoat (several coats), and then rubbing it out - working
up through the grits to 1500 or so, followed by a good buffing with
rubbing compound. As you are probably aware there are two kinds of
gel coat, one without a wax additive for layering up multiple coats,
and the other type that has the wax additive for the top coat. The
purpose of the wax is to seal out the air which prevents it from
curing all the way. It's kind of fun actually, and of course you want
to practice on some plywood first. The nice thing anout gelcoat is
that it's very easy to repair if you mess up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MWN7kbzutM





I have a friend who painted his older 38' Hatteras Sportsfish as a
DIY project using the "brush and tip" technique. Came out very nice.
Smooth and shiny.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn?t king..
 

On 4/30/2020 7:38 AM, John wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:11:06 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:28:22 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:20:02 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.

Luckily, most of our stores up here, which is where I'd wear a mask, are air
conditioned.

Aren't yours?


Not the parking lots. Your car will be a sauna when you get out too.
Maybe the problem is I do more than one thing a day. Usually my trip
out involves at least 4 stops. I try not to go any more often than I
have to. If nothing else, I would be handling that mask 8 times or
more.

Anyway, if it works for you, go for it. I pass.

Out.



Jesus. You're unreal. The ****ing mask comes off before I get into the car! And
if you've loaded the mask with the virus, then you've already got it. The mask
protects others, not you!


LOL. Don't pick on Greg now. He tends to over-think stuff sometimes
but it's just the way he is. I think it's funny sometimes. :-)





--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:55:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/30/2020 7:38 AM, John wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:11:06 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:28:22 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:20:02 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

I just walked out in the yard with my Bacharach sling. I get 85 dry
bulb, 78 wet bulb = 72% RH and this is the dry season.
I lived in DC for almost 40 years and John will not see much different
in a month or so. By August it can easily be hotter and as humid there
as it is here.

Luckily, most of our stores up here, which is where I'd wear a mask, are air
conditioned.

Aren't yours?


Not the parking lots. Your car will be a sauna when you get out too.
Maybe the problem is I do more than one thing a day. Usually my trip
out involves at least 4 stops. I try not to go any more often than I
have to. If nothing else, I would be handling that mask 8 times or
more.

Anyway, if it works for you, go for it. I pass.

Out.



Jesus. You're unreal. The ****ing mask comes off before I get into the car! And
if you've loaded the mask with the virus, then you've already got it. The mask
protects others, not you!


LOL. Don't pick on Greg now. He tends to over-think stuff sometimes
but it's just the way he is. I think it's funny sometimes. :-)

OK. I stand chastised! :)
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn?t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:46:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/30/2020 12:50 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:22:06 -0400, wrote:

BTW that reminds me, Do you have a fiberglass guy who would gel coat
my spa? I might end up doing it myself but I would pay a guy if I had
someone I could trust. I can prep it but I have never shot gel coat
and I have heard your first swing at that ball might not work out so
good ;-)

===

Unfortunateky not, but you can get surprisingly good results brushing
or rolling gelcoat (several coats), and then rubbing it out - working
up through the grits to 1500 or so, followed by a good buffing with
rubbing compound. As you are probably aware there are two kinds of
gel coat, one without a wax additive for layering up multiple coats,
and the other type that has the wax additive for the top coat. The
purpose of the wax is to seal out the air which prevents it from
curing all the way. It's kind of fun actually, and of course you want
to practice on some plywood first. The nice thing anout gelcoat is
that it's very easy to repair if you mess up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MWN7kbzutM





I have a friend who painted his older 38' Hatteras Sportsfish as a
DIY project using the "brush and tip" technique. Came out very nice.
Smooth and shiny.

===

I did a 28 foot sailboat that way a long time ago using 2 part
polyurethane . It came out well but was a lot of work and delayed my
spring launch time. That's the only boat that I've ever sold for more
than I paid however.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.





If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes
each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not
even talking really ...
do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"?

It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-)

So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described
as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind
it.
Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want
to THINK they are doing something.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:00:32 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:25:14 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:46:18 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:41:11 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

So change the mask more often. The mask is to be worn when shopping or whatever,
not all day. I went to Costco this morning. All were in masks. Maybe they wore
them for a whole hour while shopping. No sweat, and I didn't spit in it. There
may have been a bit of condensation. But, I'll guarantee that that if I had
coughed or sneezed, much less 'contamination' would be spread than if I had no
mask.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Wrong again. Put your food coloring in your mouth and then cough. Do it with and
without the mask. See which allows the least food coloring to spew out. You need
to get real.


OK great now keep the mask on, breathing through it for a few minutes
and hat food coloring will have come through. stand next to your
wife's favorite white linen table cloth and sneeze. Call me when you
get out of surgery ;-)

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.


Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.

When I remove the mask it gets put in a dog poop bag and dumped in the washing
machine.

A little thinking goes a long way, Greg. The cloth masks (use a tightly woven
sheet) are not N95 respirators. But to argue that they won't reduce the aerosol
from a cough or sneeze is ridiculous - regardless of how much you've painted and
sanded.

So people only get a "little bit infected".
Isn't that like a little pregnant?

If the aerosol in the room is reduced by 80%, my chances of breathing it are
less. That's the name of the game. Reducing risk, given that folks have to eat.


So you are only a little pregnant.

OTOH does it do anything at all if you are not coughing and sneezing?

Other folks may be coughing or sneezing. And, if I've caught the virus, I'll
probably be coughing. That's one of the first symptoms. Also, as one with mild
emphysema, I cough every now and then anyway.

Most of us aren't.

Good, but some of us are.

If you are hacking up a lung in the store, maybe you should be wearing
a mask.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:04:35 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.



The purpose of the mask is to protect others, not yourself. If you are an
asymptomatic carrier, the fact that your mask is contaminated doesn't mean ****.
You've already got it. The mask helps contain the aerosol from *your* coughing
and sneezing.

Why don't you just quit fighting it?

Because I don't like political mandates that are not backed up by
science.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.







If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes
each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not
even talking really ...
do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"?

It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-)



So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described
as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind
it.
Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want
to THINK they are doing something.


Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know it because
I was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me to
sneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?

Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data
indicated
the virus could be transferred from person to person via sneezing,
coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that a
mask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel of
the wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus has
proven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reduce
the risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to the politically
correct but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.

He Read this:

https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.html


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:12:32 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:04:35 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.



The purpose of the mask is to protect others, not yourself. If you are an
asymptomatic carrier, the fact that your mask is contaminated doesn't mean ****.
You've already got it. The mask helps contain the aerosol from *your* coughing
and sneezing.

Why don't you just quit fighting it?

Because I don't like political mandates that are not backed up by
science.

You're off the deep end.

Out.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

My governor isn’t king..
 

On 4/30/2020 7:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:04:35 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.



The purpose of the mask is to protect others, not yourself. If you are an
asymptomatic carrier, the fact that your mask is contaminated doesn't mean ****.
You've already got it. The mask helps contain the aerosol from *your* coughing
and sneezing.

Why don't you just quit fighting it?



Because I don't like political mandates that are not backed up by
science.


Numerous experiments have proven that the virus can be spread in the
moisture from a cough, sneeze and recently even normal speech.

It's not a political mandate. I suppose if you could be tested
daily before you went out in public you might feel pretty sure
that you weren't going to spread it ... because you don't have it.

It *is* backed up by science. You can disagree all you want but
it's not *you* the experts are worried about. It's the people
you may come in contact with, not knowing if you carry the virus
or not.

I think anything that adds to reducing the spread of this thing
is worthwhile ... I don't understand your unwillingness to
help others avoid getting sick.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On 4/30/2020 7:32 PM, wrote:


On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.



For some reason Greg is having a difficult time grasping this.
The virus is being carried in the droplets of a sneeze, cough
or even talking. How far those droplets can travel is the
issue. A mask helps reduce how far they go.

I've seen computer models of a person sneezing in a simulated
supermarket. The idea that the virus in the droplets only
going a few feet was disproved. Some of the droplets were
going over to the next isle of the market. Another model
showed how far droplets could travel just in normal speech.
In many cases it was more than the recommended six feet.

If all it takes is wearing an inexpensive mask when in contact
with the public to help reduce the spread of this thing, what's
the big deal? Every little bit helps as I see it.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:32:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

But the droplets and dust are still on the mask, waiting to be
projected across the room with those sneezes everyone seems so afraid
of. Since this is really talking about being in a store, the fact that
you are only spraying counters and merchandise that is a foot or two
in front of you is not that consoling. I understand John carries a bag
and he carefully puts his mask in there but that is not what I see
happening. People pull it off and shove it in their pocket, with their
keys, money or whatever else they carry around. A woman shoving it in
her purse is even more disgusting since everything she owns is in that
purse. You can wash your hands all you like but if your pocket or
purse is infected, you are not accomplishing much.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:42:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.







If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes
each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not
even talking really ...
do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"?

It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-)



So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described
as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind
it.
Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want
to THINK they are doing something.


Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know it because
I was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me to
sneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?

I would be ****ed if you sneezed on me last year, maybe to the point
that snot might not be the only thing coming out of your nose if I
thought it was intentional but I digress.
Didn't we all learn to cover our mouth when we cough or sneeze 65
years ago? They even started teaching us not to use our hand 20 years
ago. That was just colds and Flu but the same principles still apply.
Why is that so hard?


Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data
indicated
the virus could be transferred from person to person via sneezing,
coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that a
mask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel of
the wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus has
proven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reduce
the risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to the politically
correct but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.

He Read this:

https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.html

Sounds like a lot of "we don't know" to me. That pretty much sums up
the science on this thing. They really don't know.

At a certain point we are going to be resolved to the fact that this
virus is out there and it isn't going away. You can run and you can
hide but if you want to have a life, you are probably going to be
exposed sooner or later. Now they are hedging on whether the vaccine
will even work and whether having antibodies makes you safe.

My governor isn’t king..
 

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:07:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/30/2020 7:32 PM, wrote:


On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.



For some reason Greg is having a difficult time grasping this.
The virus is being carried in the droplets of a sneeze, cough
or even talking. How far those droplets can travel is the
issue. A mask helps reduce how far they go.

I've seen computer models of a person sneezing in a simulated
supermarket. The idea that the virus in the droplets only
going a few feet was disproved. Some of the droplets were
going over to the next isle of the market. Another model
showed how far droplets could travel just in normal speech.
In many cases it was more than the recommended six feet.

If all it takes is wearing an inexpensive mask when in contact
with the public to help reduce the spread of this thing, what's
the big deal? Every little bit helps as I see it.


You are assuming I am coughing and sneezing and I am not.
It is like wearing a rubber if you are not having sex and in the case
of these masks. reusing the same rubber over and over if you are ....
even if it has holes in it.

My governor isn+//0-t king..
 

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:42:43 -0400, "Mr. wrote:On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote: On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote: And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey. Pritzker is finding that he+IBk-s not as well loved as he thought he was. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/judge-grants-restraining-order-to-block-extended-stay-at-home-order-reports/2262560/ Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO. Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience, gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result in fines. The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks. You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a surgical mask. I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to issue an "order" enforceable with fines. Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect *you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you sneeze or cough. When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation. The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases. That's all. The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and hospitals are laying off medical staff. We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders" enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing. All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense. I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as soon as they get to court. The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero proof the bandanna mask does anything. Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of "Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks. I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask. Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked). Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that helping anything. All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket. Try spitting through a mask. Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it near anything expensive. Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the same without the mask. Common sense rules. We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be the main vector for this disease. I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days. I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it. See what comes out. Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in your pocket for next time? Throw it away? Same with your gloves if you go that far. Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that. Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting. Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns, they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag. The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to political pressure to be able to say we are doing something. Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida has affected your thought process. Either that or you live in an alternate universe. The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces. Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3 microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is much larger than a virus. Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway. Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter a store and you can remove it once you get back in your vehicle. Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones. The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot, our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah. We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen up the choke hold on our economy. If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not even talking really ... do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"? It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-) So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind it. Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want to THINK they are doing something. Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know it becauseI was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me tosneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?I would be ****ed if you sneezed on me last year, maybe to the pointthat snot might not be the only thing coming out of your nose if Ithought it was intentional but I digress. Didn't we all learn to cover our mouth when we cough or sneeze 65years ago? They even started teaching us not to use our hand 20 yearsago. That was just colds and Flu but the same principles still apply. Why is that so hard?Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data indicatedthe virus could be transferred from person to person via sneezing, coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that amask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel ofthe wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus hasproven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reducethe risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to the politicallycorrect but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.He Read this:https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.htmlSounds like a lot of "we don't know" to me. That pretty much sums upthe science on this thing. They really don't know.At a certain point we are going to be resolved to the fact that thisvirus is out there and it isn't going away. You can run and you canhide but if you want to have a life, you are probably going to beexposed sooner or later. Now they are hedging on whether the vaccinewill even work and whether having antibodies makes you safe.

If you believe the science and the scientists don't know, that
kind of leaves you in the dark, doesn't it? I go along with what
the scientists think might help.
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