What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:37:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/13/2020 9:10 AM, Its Me wrote:


The social distancing was/is to flatten the curve. To stretch out the infection over a longer period of time, as you have pointed out.

So now Fauci, who said on Jan 26th that the US didn't need to worry about Corona, is backtracking and saying that earlier distancing would have saved lives. This guy seems to be in political cover-his-ass mode.



I don't know if he's trying to cover his ass or not. My impression of
him is that he just analyzes data through the myopic view of a
scientist.

I came across a timeline written by someone else that I think is a
fair historical summary of the early stages of all this. Plenty of
mistakes were made:

-------------------------------------------

Dec. 1: The first known patient

Dec. 30: Dr. Li Wenliang, at Wuhan Central Hospital, warned
colleagues about a cluster of patients being treated for
viral pneumonia

Dec. 31: China alerted the WHO of a spate of illnesses in
Wuhan, China.

Jan. 1: China shut down the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market
in Wuhan.

Jan. 10: The genetic sequence of the isolated coronavirus
was shared.

Jan. 11: The first death was reported.

Jan 14: (WHO) repeated China’s claim that coronavirus was
not contagious among humans

Jan. 20: The first human-to-human transmission was reported
by a Chinese expert.

Jan 22: Trump said, "we have it totally under control.
It’s one person coming in from China, and we
have it under control. It’s going to be just fine."

Jan 23: Chinese authorities implemented a strict nationwide
travel ban, but allowed International flights.

Jan 24: Bill de Blasio said, “We urge all New Yorkers to
continue to pursue their everyday activities and
routines”

Jan 25: Good Morning America:
"People should be more concerned right now with the
flu in this country."

Jan 26: New York City’s health commissioner, Dr. Oxiris
Barbot said, “We are encouraging New Yorkers to
go about their everyday lives... those “who had
recently traveled from Wuhan were not being urged
to self-quarantine or avoid large public gatherings.”

Jan. 30: The WHO declared a public health emergency of international
concern.

Feb 1: President Trump instilled China travel ban. New York
City had its first suspected case of coronavirus.

Feb 2: NYC health commissioner Bardot “As we gear up to
celebrate the Lunar New Year in NYC, I want to
assure New Yorkers that there is no reason for anyone
to change their holiday plans, avoid the subway, or
certain parts of the city because of coronavirus.”

Feb 4: China’s consul general in New York, Huang Ping,
thanked the Chinese-American community and other
concerned Americans on Tuesday for their aid in
battling the coronavirus outbreak, and criticized
what he described as “an overreaction by the
American government in severely restricting travel
to and from China.”

Feb 5: New York Times "Who says it's not safe to travel
to China? The coronavirus travel ban is unjust
and doesn't work anyway." NYC Health Commissioner
Barbot on Twitter, “Today our city is celebrating
the Lunar New Year parade in Chinatown... I want
to remind everyone to enjoy the parade and not
change any plans due to misinformation spreading
about coronavirus.”

Feb 6: Bardot: “The important thing for New Yorkers to
know is that in the city currently, their risk is
low and our city preparedness is high...We’re
telling New Yorkers, go about your lives, take the
subway, go out, enjoy life. . . If it were likely
that it could be transmitted casually, we would be
seeing a lot more cases.”

Feb 9: Chinatown in New York City held its annual Lunar
New Year parade. Surgical masks were nearly absent
from this parade. Councilman Mark D. Levine on
Twitter, “In powerful show of defiance of coronavirus
scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC’s Chinatown for
ceremony ahead of annual Lunar New Year parade. Chants
of ‘Be Strong Wuhan!’ If you are staying away, you are
missing out.”

Feb 12: The House Judiciary Committee on voted, 22-10, to
terminate President Trump's expanded travel ban and
rein in presidential authority to issue such
travel restrictions.

Feb 13: New York City Council speaker Corey Johnson “It is
important to support the Chinese community in New
York City...There is no need to avoid public spaces.
I urge everyone to dine and shop as usual.”

Bill de Blasio: "This should not stop you from
going about your life. It should not stop you
from going to Chinatown and going out to eat. I am
going to do that today myself.”

Feb 25: Dr. Anthony Fauci “You need to do nothing different
than you’re already doing"

Feb. 26: In a press conference, President Trump said the risk
to Americans remains low.

Feb 28: A German team of doctors in Wuhan, China, “we discovered
that shedding of potentially infectious virus may
occur in persons who have no fever and no signs or
only minor signs of infection.”

Feb 29: The Food and Drug Administration declared that other
labs besides their own could develop their own
coronavirus tests.

March 1: Health officials announced the first confirmed case
in New York.


March 2: Governor Andrew Cuomo: “In this situation, the facts
defeat fear, because the reality is reassuring...
The woman who has now tested positive, she’s at home,
she’s not even in a hospital, so the perspective here
is important. And the facts, once you know the facts,
once you know the reality, it is reassuring, and we
should relax, because that’s what’s dictated by the
reality of the situation. I get the emotion, I
understand; I understand the anxiety. I’m a
native-born New Yorker, we live with anxiety.
But the facts don’t back it up here. . . . What
happened in other countries versus what happened here,
we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was
in other countries.”

I'll bet you didn't get that from the NYTimes.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/2020 9:39 AM, John wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 06:10:47 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 8:31:06 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/13/2020 8:18 AM, John wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:05:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:45 AM, John wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:57:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.

Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see
this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at
once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be
here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely
to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes
through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing
out over time.

Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve.

It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age,
dying. It just prolongs the suspense.

Which is why I said early on that I'd as soon catch it quickly, before the
hospitals got full!
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



It's depressing to realize that once this is all over and assuming those
who became infected and recovered have a degree of immunity (although
not 100% confirmed) that us old farts who locked ourselves up in
isolation to avoid becoming infected will be the ones who remain
most at risk.

We may need to hibernate for a long, long time. :-)

That's the truth. I'm supposed to fly to Seattle in July for a wedding. Already
paid for five tickets. I'm having serious second thoughts about that trip. I'd
really hate to get out there, come down with the virus, and spend time in a
hospital there.

United will allow rescheduling the trip up to a year from the date the tickets
were purchased. We'll see, I reckon.

Also have a trip to Seattle planned for August. Motorcycle ride with my brother.
Having qualms about that one also. Alaska Air has the same rules as United.


Probably too early to tell but I have a hunch we'll still be dealing
with this for quite a while.

The social distancing was/is to flatten the curve. To stretch out the infection over a longer period of time, as you have pointed out.

So now Fauci, who said on Jan 26th that the US didn't need to worry about Corona, is backtracking and saying that earlier distancing would have saved lives. This guy seems to be in political cover-his-ass mode.

Perhaps he was listening to the 'on the spot' gurus from the WHO.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



See the timeline I posted in reply to "Its Me".

Interesting summary of early stages of this.

Many forget that the House Judiciary Committee voted
to terminate Trump's travel bans from China and Europe
on Feb 12th and to limit his authority for future bans.

and:

Statement by Gov. Cuomo on March 2nd:

“In this situation, the facts defeat fear, because the reality
is reassuring...The woman who has now tested positive, she’s
at home, she’s not even in a hospital, so the perspective
here is important. And the facts, once you know the facts,
once you know the reality, it is reassuring, and we should
relax, because that’s what’s dictated by the reality of the
situation. I get the emotion, I understand; I understand the
anxiety. I’m a native-born New Yorker, we live with anxiety.
But the facts don’t back it up here. . . . What happened in
other countries versus what happened here, we don’t even
think it’s going to be as bad as it was in other countries.�

and:

On Feb 25th, Dr. Anthony Fauci said:

“You need to do nothing different than you’re already doing"

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/2020 9:43 AM, John wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:37:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/13/2020 9:10 AM, Its Me wrote:


The social distancing was/is to flatten the curve. To stretch out the infection over a longer period of time, as you have pointed out.

So now Fauci, who said on Jan 26th that the US didn't need to worry about Corona, is backtracking and saying that earlier distancing would have saved lives. This guy seems to be in political cover-his-ass mode.



I don't know if he's trying to cover his ass or not. My impression of
him is that he just analyzes data through the myopic view of a
scientist.

I came across a timeline written by someone else that I think is a
fair historical summary of the early stages of all this. Plenty of
mistakes were made:

-------------------------------------------

Dec. 1: The first known patient

Dec. 30: Dr. Li Wenliang, at Wuhan Central Hospital, warned
colleagues about a cluster of patients being treated for
viral pneumonia

Dec. 31: China alerted the WHO of a spate of illnesses in
Wuhan, China.

Jan. 1: China shut down the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market
in Wuhan.

Jan. 10: The genetic sequence of the isolated coronavirus
was shared.

Jan. 11: The first death was reported.

Jan 14: (WHO) repeated China’s claim that coronavirus was
not contagious among humans

Jan. 20: The first human-to-human transmission was reported
by a Chinese expert.

Jan 22: Trump said, "we have it totally under control.
It’s one person coming in from China, and we
have it under control. It’s going to be just fine."

Jan 23: Chinese authorities implemented a strict nationwide
travel ban, but allowed International flights.

Jan 24: Bill de Blasio said, “We urge all New Yorkers to
continue to pursue their everyday activities and
routines�

Jan 25: Good Morning America:
"People should be more concerned right now with the
flu in this country."

Jan 26: New York City’s health commissioner, Dr. Oxiris
Barbot said, “We are encouraging New Yorkers to
go about their everyday lives... those “who had
recently traveled from Wuhan were not being urged
to self-quarantine or avoid large public gatherings.�

Jan. 30: The WHO declared a public health emergency of international
concern.

Feb 1: President Trump instilled China travel ban. New York
City had its first suspected case of coronavirus.

Feb 2: NYC health commissioner Bardot “As we gear up to
celebrate the Lunar New Year in NYC, I want to
assure New Yorkers that there is no reason for anyone
to change their holiday plans, avoid the subway, or
certain parts of the city because of coronavirus.�

Feb 4: China’s consul general in New York, Huang Ping,
thanked the Chinese-American community and other
concerned Americans on Tuesday for their aid in
battling the coronavirus outbreak, and criticized
what he described as “an overreaction by the
American government in severely restricting travel
to and from China.�

Feb 5: New York Times "Who says it's not safe to travel
to China? The coronavirus travel ban is unjust
and doesn't work anyway." NYC Health Commissioner
Barbot on Twitter, “Today our city is celebrating
the Lunar New Year parade in Chinatown... I want
to remind everyone to enjoy the parade and not
change any plans due to misinformation spreading
about coronavirus.�

Feb 6: Bardot: “The important thing for New Yorkers to
know is that in the city currently, their risk is
low and our city preparedness is high...We’re
telling New Yorkers, go about your lives, take the
subway, go out, enjoy life. . . If it were likely
that it could be transmitted casually, we would be
seeing a lot more cases.�

Feb 9: Chinatown in New York City held its annual Lunar
New Year parade. Surgical masks were nearly absent
from this parade. Councilman Mark D. Levine on
Twitter, “In powerful show of defiance of coronavirus
scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC’s Chinatown for
ceremony ahead of annual Lunar New Year parade. Chants
of ‘Be Strong Wuhan!’ If you are staying away, you are
missing out.�

Feb 12: The House Judiciary Committee on voted, 22-10, to
terminate President Trump's expanded travel ban and
rein in presidential authority to issue such
travel restrictions.

Feb 13: New York City Council speaker Corey Johnson “It is
important to support the Chinese community in New
York City...There is no need to avoid public spaces.
I urge everyone to dine and shop as usual.�

Bill de Blasio: "This should not stop you from
going about your life. It should not stop you
from going to Chinatown and going out to eat. I am
going to do that today myself.�

Feb 25: Dr. Anthony Fauci “You need to do nothing different
than you’re already doing"

Feb. 26: In a press conference, President Trump said the risk
to Americans remains low.

Feb 28: A German team of doctors in Wuhan, China, “we discovered
that shedding of potentially infectious virus may
occur in persons who have no fever and no signs or
only minor signs of infection.�

Feb 29: The Food and Drug Administration declared that other
labs besides their own could develop their own
coronavirus tests.

March 1: Health officials announced the first confirmed case
in New York.


March 2: Governor Andrew Cuomo: “In this situation, the facts
defeat fear, because the reality is reassuring...
The woman who has now tested positive, she’s at home,
she’s not even in a hospital, so the perspective here
is important. And the facts, once you know the facts,
once you know the reality, it is reassuring, and we
should relax, because that’s what’s dictated by the
reality of the situation. I get the emotion, I
understand; I understand the anxiety. I’m a
native-born New Yorker, we live with anxiety.
But the facts don’t back it up here. . . . What
happened in other countries versus what happened here,
we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was
in other countries.�

I'll bet you didn't get that from the NYTimes.


Nope. All factual though.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/2020 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.



The only one the press calls a "liar" is Trump, even if he is giving
information that he belives to be true at the time.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:16:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.



The only one the press calls a "liar" is Trump, even if he is giving
information that he belives to be true at the time.

===

Trump's big problem with the press, and many others, is that he comes
across as being ignorant and beligerant. It's probably too late in
his career to adopt a more thoughtful approach but he should really
try once in a while - more listening, less talking and posturing.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/20 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:16:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.



The only one the press calls a "liar" is Trump, even if he is giving
information that he belives to be true at the time.

===

Trump's big problem with the press, and many others, is that he comes
across as being ignorant and beligerant. It's probably too late in
his career to adopt a more thoughtful approach but he should really
try once in a while - more listening, less talking and posturing.



Ignorance, arrogance, bull****ting, belligerence, finger-pointing,
appointing of ass-kissers

--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 9:37:39 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/13/2020 9:10 AM, Its Me wrote:


The social distancing was/is to flatten the curve. To stretch out the infection over a longer period of time, as you have pointed out.

So now Fauci, who said on Jan 26th that the US didn't need to worry about Corona, is backtracking and saying that earlier distancing would have saved lives. This guy seems to be in political cover-his-ass mode.



I don't know if he's trying to cover his ass or not. My impression of
him is that he just analyzes data through the myopic view of a
scientist.

I came across a timeline written by someone else that I think is a
fair historical summary of the early stages of all this. Plenty of
mistakes were made:

-------------------------------------------

Dec. 1: The first known patient

Dec. 30: Dr. Li Wenliang, at Wuhan Central Hospital, warned
colleagues about a cluster of patients being treated for
viral pneumonia

Dec. 31: China alerted the WHO of a spate of illnesses in
Wuhan, China.

Jan. 1: China shut down the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market
in Wuhan.

Jan. 10: The genetic sequence of the isolated coronavirus
was shared.

Jan. 11: The first death was reported.

Jan 14: (WHO) repeated China’s claim that coronavirus was
not contagious among humans

Jan. 20: The first human-to-human transmission was reported
by a Chinese expert.

Jan 22: Trump said, "we have it totally under control.
It’s one person coming in from China, and we
have it under control. It’s going to be just fine."

Jan 23: Chinese authorities implemented a strict nationwide
travel ban, but allowed International flights.

Jan 24: Bill de Blasio said, “We urge all New Yorkers to
continue to pursue their everyday activities and
routines�

Jan 25: Good Morning America:
"People should be more concerned right now with the
flu in this country."

Jan 26: New York City’s health commissioner, Dr. Oxiris
Barbot said, “We are encouraging New Yorkers to
go about their everyday lives... those “who had
recently traveled from Wuhan were not being urged
to self-quarantine or avoid large public gatherings.�

Jan. 30: The WHO declared a public health emergency of international
concern.

Feb 1: President Trump instilled China travel ban. New York
City had its first suspected case of coronavirus.

Feb 2: NYC health commissioner Bardot “As we gear up to
celebrate the Lunar New Year in NYC, I want to
assure New Yorkers that there is no reason for anyone
to change their holiday plans, avoid the subway, or
certain parts of the city because of coronavirus.�

Feb 4: China’s consul general in New York, Huang Ping,
thanked the Chinese-American community and other
concerned Americans on Tuesday for their aid in
battling the coronavirus outbreak, and criticized
what he described as “an overreaction by the
American government in severely restricting travel
to and from China.�

Feb 5: New York Times "Who says it's not safe to travel
to China? The coronavirus travel ban is unjust
and doesn't work anyway." NYC Health Commissioner
Barbot on Twitter, “Today our city is celebrating
the Lunar New Year parade in Chinatown... I want
to remind everyone to enjoy the parade and not
change any plans due to misinformation spreading
about coronavirus.�

Feb 6: Bardot: “The important thing for New Yorkers to
know is that in the city currently, their risk is
low and our city preparedness is high...We’re
telling New Yorkers, go about your lives, take the
subway, go out, enjoy life. . . If it were likely
that it could be transmitted casually, we would be
seeing a lot more cases.�

Feb 9: Chinatown in New York City held its annual Lunar
New Year parade. Surgical masks were nearly absent
from this parade. Councilman Mark D. Levine on
Twitter, “In powerful show of defiance of coronavirus
scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC’s Chinatown for
ceremony ahead of annual Lunar New Year parade. Chants
of ‘Be Strong Wuhan!’ If you are staying away, you are
missing out.�

Feb 12: The House Judiciary Committee on voted, 22-10, to
terminate President Trump's expanded travel ban and
rein in presidential authority to issue such
travel restrictions.

Feb 13: New York City Council speaker Corey Johnson “It is
important to support the Chinese community in New
York City...There is no need to avoid public spaces.
I urge everyone to dine and shop as usual.�

Bill de Blasio: "This should not stop you from
going about your life. It should not stop you
from going to Chinatown and going out to eat. I am
going to do that today myself.�

Feb 25: Dr. Anthony Fauci “You need to do nothing different
than you’re already doing"

Feb. 26: In a press conference, President Trump said the risk
to Americans remains low.

Feb 28: A German team of doctors in Wuhan, China, “we discovered
that shedding of potentially infectious virus may
occur in persons who have no fever and no signs or
only minor signs of infection.�

Feb 29: The Food and Drug Administration declared that other
labs besides their own could develop their own
coronavirus tests.

March 1: Health officials announced the first confirmed case
in New York.


March 2: Governor Andrew Cuomo: “In this situation, the facts
defeat fear, because the reality is reassuring...
The woman who has now tested positive, she’s at home,
she’s not even in a hospital, so the perspective here
is important. And the facts, once you know the facts,
once you know the reality, it is reassuring, and we
should relax, because that’s what’s dictated by the
reality of the situation. I get the emotion, I
understand; I understand the anxiety. I’m a
native-born New Yorker, we live with anxiety.
But the facts don’t back it up here. . . . What
happened in other countries versus what happened here,
we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was
in other countries.�


Good timeline and info.

I don't necessarily think that Fauci is nakedly political. He's obviously a bright guy and very successful. But he's been the director of the government agency NIAID since 1984... 36 years. I doubt you can do that without having a excellent political compass.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:56:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/12/2020 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.

Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see
this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at
once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be
here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely
to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes
through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing
out over time.



Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve.

It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age,
dying. It just prolongs the suspense.


That's true. I think there has been so much talk about rates going
down, etc. that the concept of "flattening the curve" has been forgotten.

When the curve is flattened, all it does is extend it over a
greater period of time. The original idea was to prevent hospitals
from becoming overwhelmed. In that respect, it has worked.

I've been charting the number of confirmed cases in Plymouth County
with a population of approx. 500K. On March 1st there were no
confirmed cases. This morning there are 2024. The slope continues
to go up at the same rate it has for the past 2 weeks.

I think the "hospital overload" may have been hyped up a bit too. They
brought the hospital ships to NY and LA, they sit largely unoccupied.
The huge field hospitals that were quickly erected seem pretty empty
too. I understand nursing homes and perhaps a few other places with
concentrations of old people can be hot spots but we do seem to be
coping fairly well as soon as you get out of a couple big cities.

There are going to be books written about this and most will be
talking more about irrational panic than the actual illness.
About 3 million people die in the US every year and I doubt the
overall death toll will be that much higher when looked at it
historically. This is not the Spanish Flu. It is more like the Y2K
thing. There was a real problem but it got hyped up far greater than
the actual impact.

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/20 1:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:56:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/12/2020 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.

Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see
this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at
once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be
here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely
to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes
through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing
out over time.



Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve.

It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age,
dying. It just prolongs the suspense.


That's true. I think there has been so much talk about rates going
down, etc. that the concept of "flattening the curve" has been forgotten.

When the curve is flattened, all it does is extend it over a
greater period of time. The original idea was to prevent hospitals
from becoming overwhelmed. In that respect, it has worked.

I've been charting the number of confirmed cases in Plymouth County
with a population of approx. 500K. On March 1st there were no
confirmed cases. This morning there are 2024. The slope continues
to go up at the same rate it has for the past 2 weeks.

I think the "hospital overload" may have been hyped up a bit too. They
brought the hospital ships to NY and LA, they sit largely unoccupied.
The huge field hospitals that were quickly erected seem pretty empty
too. I understand nursing homes and perhaps a few other places with
concentrations of old people can be hot spots but we do seem to be
coping fairly well as soon as you get out of a couple big cities.

There are going to be books written about this and most will be
talking more about irrational panic than the actual illness.
About 3 million people die in the US every year and I doubt the
overall death toll will be that much higher when looked at it
historically. This is not the Spanish Flu. It is more like the Y2K
thing. There was a real problem but it got hyped up far greater than
the actual impact.


Since it is no big deal, I think it would be a hell of a gesture for
your and Mrs. Fretwell to prepare some goody bags and deliver them in
person to nursing homes.

--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:45:37 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:57:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.

Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see
this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at
once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be
here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely
to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes
through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing
out over time.

Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve.

It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age,
dying. It just prolongs the suspense.

Which is why I said early on that I'd as soon catch it quickly, before the
hospitals got full!

We don't really seem to be having the problem here, except maybe in
Broward or Miami/Dade. I still haven't seen stories about them setting
up tents outside or having to decide who gets care. Maybe it is just
because a lot of the snowbirds went home and we have plenty of beds
for when they are here.
People do seem to be dying to come to Florida ;-)

What a great TV ad...
 

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 4/13/20 1:18 PM, wrote: On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:56:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/12/2020 8:57 PM, wrote: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote: On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote: On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote: On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7mOQ5DsM&feature=youtu.be Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money. Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh? He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The "facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a day. Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it. Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600% in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to recommending them for anyone in public. Those are politically knee jerks, not science. Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag" on his face. Not quite that bad Greg. The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*. The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to 84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC recommendations precisely. Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing out over time. Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve. It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age, dying. It just prolongs the suspense. That's true. I think there has been so much talk about rates going down, etc. that the concept of "flattening the curve" has been forgotten. When the curve is flattened, all it does is extend it over a greater period of time. The original idea was to prevent hospitalsfrom becoming overwhelmed. In that respect, it has worked. I've been charting the number of confirmed cases in Plymouth County with a population of approx. 500K. On March 1st there were no confirmed cases. This morning there are 2024. The slope continues to go up at the same rate it has for the past 2 weeks. I think the "hospital overload" may have been hyped up a bit too. They brought the hospital ships to NY and LA, they sit largely unoccupied. The huge field hospitals that were quickly erected seem pretty empty too. I understand nursing homes and perhaps a few other places with concentrations of old people can be hot spots but we do seem to be coping fairly well as soon as you get out of a couple big cities. There are going to be books written about this and most will be talking more about irrational panic than the actual illness. About 3 million people die in the US every year and I doubt the overall death toll will be that much higher when looked at it historically. This is not the Spanish Flu. It is more like the Y2K thing. There was a real problem but it got hyped up far greater than the actual impact. Since it is no big deal, I think it would be a hell of a gesture for your and Mrs. Fretwell to prepare some goody bags and deliver them in person to nursing homes.-- For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

Each and every time you use that sig line a light shinse on your
mental instability. Just sayin.
--
..


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:06:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:09:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:35:22 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:25:24 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:11:02 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/12/20 8:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you
are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.



Apparently science doesn't mesh with Greg's loonytarian preference of
doing nothing.

There is not much "science" in these "do rag" masks.
They are certainly more than useless without any kind of sterile
protocol in place. Stuffing a dirty rag in your pocket that has been
collecting whatever was in the air and then reusing it contaminates
your hands, your pocket and anything else you put in your pocket.

They did an interesting demonstration here using U/V powder and the
mask wearing little blonde news girl glowed like a christmas tree
after an hour of typical activity, including under her mask.

Dipping them in a solution of clorox and water solves that problem. Even gives
the wearer some clean hands.

That is great if you only go one place a day and you have time for it
to dry between wearings. In her case it was more about what she did
after she took it off.

I'm thinking most of us go somewhere much less than once a day! Besides, the
masks are easy to make with a sewing machine and the patterns from John Hopkins.
My wife has made about a dozen and sent half to my daughter, the physical
therapist.

Actually I have been thinking about this and looking at my stash of
Costco stuff. I turned up a 240 pack of deluxe paper dinner napkins. I
think if you used alligator clips and rubber bands, fold these over
once and used that for a mask, (the size seems good) you could chuck
it and start with a fresh one every time.
I may put some in a zip bag and keep them in the car in case we do go
to a mandatory mask thing but I am certainly not reusing them. I would
still scrub up before and after wearing it and be really careful
getting it off and into the trash.
By the standard, an N-95 is supposed to catch 95% of anything bigger
than 0.3 microns. I wonder what 6 layers of that napkin material would
stop. It is certainly a lot more than an old, washed 100 times T
shirt. I think I would grind fiberglass with it if I could get a
tighter fit to my face.
I do still have some N-95s here tho and I am saving them for tasks
like that. I am way more afraid of emphysema or VOCs than Covid.

Better than nothing, I'd say.

My bet is if you actually had them doing testing, those cloth masks
are useless (as they said 3 weeks ago before the change of heart) and
a one time use of a 6 layer napkin mask is better. It probably isn't
nearly as good as an N-95 and even that will let at least 5% of the
virus through, assuming COVID is larger than 0.3 microns and I don't
think it is.
Once any of these get wet or even moist, the virus is coming through.
Having worn a real N-95 a lot, working on stuff, they can soak through
pretty fast, just from the condensation of your breath. If I wear one
for much more than an hour, it is dripping. I suppose in a cool dry
place they last longer but it is over 90 here with ~70% R/H right now.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 06:10:47 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 8:31:06 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/13/2020 8:18 AM, John wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:05:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:45 AM, John wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:57:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.

Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see
this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at
once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be
here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely
to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes
through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing
out over time.

Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve.

It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age,
dying. It just prolongs the suspense.

Which is why I said early on that I'd as soon catch it quickly, before the
hospitals got full!
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



It's depressing to realize that once this is all over and assuming those
who became infected and recovered have a degree of immunity (although
not 100% confirmed) that us old farts who locked ourselves up in
isolation to avoid becoming infected will be the ones who remain
most at risk.

We may need to hibernate for a long, long time. :-)

That's the truth. I'm supposed to fly to Seattle in July for a wedding. Already
paid for five tickets. I'm having serious second thoughts about that trip. I'd
really hate to get out there, come down with the virus, and spend time in a
hospital there.

United will allow rescheduling the trip up to a year from the date the tickets
were purchased. We'll see, I reckon.

Also have a trip to Seattle planned for August. Motorcycle ride with my brother.
Having qualms about that one also. Alaska Air has the same rules as United.


Probably too early to tell but I have a hunch we'll still be dealing
with this for quite a while.

The social distancing was/is to flatten the curve. To stretch out the infection over a longer period of time, as you have pointed out.

So now Fauci, who said on Jan 26th that the US didn't need to worry about Corona, is backtracking and saying that earlier distancing would have saved lives. This guy seems to be in political cover-his-ass mode

It is funny that when Fauci says it he is just evolving to changing
conditions but when Trump repeats what he heard Fauci say he is a
****ing liar.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:12:48 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.

I said before, he really gets far too much TV time, giving us the best
guess at the time on a situation that is changing every day. Fauci is
just lucky that the press isn't calling him the same names they call
Trump for saying the same things.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:34:03 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:16:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.



The only one the press calls a "liar" is Trump, even if he is giving
information that he belives to be true at the time.

===

Trump's big problem with the press, and many others, is that he comes
across as being ignorant and beligerant. It's probably too late in
his career to adopt a more thoughtful approach but he should really
try once in a while - more listening, less talking and posturing.



Ignorance, arrogance, bull****ting, belligerence, finger-pointing,
appointing of ass-kissers

So when Fauci says it he is just reacting to what he sees at the time
but if Trump quotes him he is a ****ing liar ... OK got it.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:50:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:12:48 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.

I said before, he really gets far too much TV time, giving us the best
guess at the time on a situation that is changing every day. Fauci is
just lucky that the press isn't calling him the same names they call
Trump for saying the same things.

===

Fauci has a much less abrasive personna and does not seem to engage in
outright lies for the sake of political gain. Big difference.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/20 2:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:50:04 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:12:48 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.

I said before, he really gets far too much TV time, giving us the best
guess at the time on a situation that is changing every day. Fauci is
just lucky that the press isn't calling him the same names they call
Trump for saying the same things.

===

Fauci has a much less abrasive personna and does not seem to engage in
outright lies for the sake of political gain. Big difference.


There are many differences between Fauci and Trump. Fauci is a scientist
with a well-established reputation. He is cautious and is doing his best
to deal with a fluid situation. He is at the end of his career, is not
in political office and has no incentive to bull**** the public.

Trump is not a scientist. He isn't even a reader. He said the other day
he was going to depend on his gut as to when to state the current crisis
was over. Trump is not cautious, he doesn't read, he doesn't value the
opinions of legitimate scientists, he is facing the worst crisis of his
presidency, and he is scared ****less of what might happen to him if he
loses.

Fretwell has little or no respect for those with serious professional
credentials, especialy doctors. He thinks he knows more than they do. He
likes the fact that Trump is a disrupter, because Fretwell also hates
government. He approves of Trump.



--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/20 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:34:03 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:16:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.

Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning
there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as
sharp and flexable when you reach his age.

I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV
a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is
changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him
a liar too.

===

I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts
available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting
reality.



The only one the press calls a "liar" is Trump, even if he is giving
information that he belives to be true at the time.

===

Trump's big problem with the press, and many others, is that he comes
across as being ignorant and beligerant. It's probably too late in
his career to adopt a more thoughtful approach but he should really
try once in a while - more listening, less talking and posturing.



Ignorance, arrogance, bull****ting, belligerence, finger-pointing,
appointing of ass-kissers

So when Fauci says it he is just reacting to what he sees at the time
but if Trump quotes him he is a ****ing liar ... OK got it.


Trump mostly listens to and quotes himself, and he has less scientific
background, education, and experience than I do, and I was an English
major.

--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:20:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 1:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:56:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/12/2020 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:33:55 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:34:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/11/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.



Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.


Not quite that bad Greg.

The estimate of 2.3 million deaths was based on doing *nothing*.

The estimates of up to 240K deaths which was reduced first to
84K and then to 60K are based on everyone following the CDC
recommendations precisely.

Since we are all likely to get it eventually, the only thing I see
this doing is "flattening the curve" and not having it all happen at
once, They pretty much say that too. It is unlikely a vaccine will be
here before this thing runs it' initial course. This curve is likely
to look more like a decreasing sine wave as the virus waxes and wanes
through society ... assuming we stay locked down and start venturing
out over time.



Good, you see the purpose - flattening the curve.

It still doesn't change your chances of being infected and at our age,
dying. It just prolongs the suspense.


That's true. I think there has been so much talk about rates going
down, etc. that the concept of "flattening the curve" has been forgotten.

When the curve is flattened, all it does is extend it over a
greater period of time. The original idea was to prevent hospitals
from becoming overwhelmed. In that respect, it has worked.

I've been charting the number of confirmed cases in Plymouth County
with a population of approx. 500K. On March 1st there were no
confirmed cases. This morning there are 2024. The slope continues
to go up at the same rate it has for the past 2 weeks.

I think the "hospital overload" may have been hyped up a bit too. They
brought the hospital ships to NY and LA, they sit largely unoccupied.
The huge field hospitals that were quickly erected seem pretty empty
too. I understand nursing homes and perhaps a few other places with
concentrations of old people can be hot spots but we do seem to be
coping fairly well as soon as you get out of a couple big cities.

There are going to be books written about this and most will be
talking more about irrational panic than the actual illness.
About 3 million people die in the US every year and I doubt the
overall death toll will be that much higher when looked at it
historically. This is not the Spanish Flu. It is more like the Y2K
thing. There was a real problem but it got hyped up far greater than
the actual impact.


Since it is no big deal, I think it would be a hell of a gesture for
your and Mrs. Fretwell to prepare some goody bags and deliver them in
person to nursing homes.

If I thought it was the right thing to do, I wouldn't hesitate to do
it. I am not hugging anyone, I would avoid touching stuff and I would
be using my hand sanitizer but I don't think the chance of infection
is that much more likely than a Carnival Cruise.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.

Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.

Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.

Actually, I haven't been watching them as you have. I use dog poop bags and
throw them away immediately. They cost a whole three cents each. I don't see
people wearing gloves much, unless they're working in store or carry-out
restaurants. I'd imagine they either rinse them with a clorox solution or throw
them away. I think maybe I give people in general a bit more credit for common
sense than you do.

Perhaps you are experiencing a western Florida thing.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 4/13/20 1:52 PM, wrote: On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:34:03 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 4/13/20 11:22 AM, wrote: On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:16:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/13/2020 10:12 AM, wrote: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:04 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:10:42 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote: Wrote in message: On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...=youtu.beFauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn outto be wrong. He might cost them some grant money. Fauci is just reacting to the available data. In the beginning there was just models. You should wish that your mind will be as sharp and flexable when you reach his age. I understand the position Fauci is in but the flaw is having him on TV a couple hours a day shooting from the hip on a situation that is changing this fast. I suppose he is lucky the press isn't calling him a liar too. === I think that people realize he's doing the best he can with the facts available. He doesn't come across as playing politics or distorting reality. The only one the press calls a "liar" is Trump, even if he is giving information that he belives to be true at the time. === Trump's big problem with the press, and many others, is that he comes across as being ignorant and beligerant. It's probably too late in his career to adopt a more thoughtful approach but he should really try once in a while - more listening, less talking and posturing. Ignorance, arrogance, bull****ting, belligerence, finger-pointing, appointing of ass-kissers So when Fauci says it he is just reacting to what he sees at the time but if Trump quotes him he is a ****ing liar ... OK got it. Trump mostly listens to and quotes himself, and he has less scientific background, education, and experience than I do, and I was an English major.-- For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

Lets compare how Trump did in life vs the mess Fat Harry made of his.
--
..


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:51:39 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.

Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.

Actually, I haven't been watching them as you have. I use dog poop bags and
throw them away immediately. They cost a whole three cents each. I don't see
people wearing gloves much, unless they're working in store or carry-out
restaurants. I'd imagine they either rinse them with a clorox solution or throw
them away. I think maybe I give people in general a bit more credit for common
sense than you do.

Perhaps you are experiencing a western Florida thing.

I suspect it was because Costco had a pallet of nitrile gloves near
the door, right at the beginning of this thing. I got a box but for
the shop, not the virus. I do see fewer gloves now but the ones I see
seem to be part of the hoarding. They are not throwing them away. I am
also seeing fewer n-95 masks, probably because they are unavailable
anywhere., It is just the Frito Bandito bandannas and masks made in a
similar fashion.
Nobody seems to be doing the bag trick.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/13/2020 10:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.



Most of the larger stores up here are restricting how many people
can enter at a time. My sister in law went to Walmart today
and she said there was a line outside ... with people spaced at
least 6 feet apart, waiting to enter. As a person left the
store another was allowed to go in.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.



Most of the larger stores up here are restricting how many people
can enter at a time. My sister in law went to Walmart today
and she said there was a line outside ... with people spaced at
least 6 feet apart, waiting to enter. As a person left the
store another was allowed to go in.


They are set up for that but I guess they decided it wasn't too
crowded because the doors were both open. (each end of the building) .
The last time I was there they only had one door open and they did
seem to be monitoring how many people were there. It must have been OK
because I went right in.
I have to go to Costco next. I am curious how that is going to go. If
it is too busy, Deuce might have to get used to a different dog food.
I really don't want to do it. I am going to see if I can just order
and pick up.

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/14/2020 1:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 10:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.



Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.


People are trying Greg.

Maybe instead of laughing at them you should instruct them as to
their proper use.

Or maybe you shouldn't. With patience and tempers so short
now-a-days, you may not get the reception you expected.



Those are exactly the people I am giving a wide berth. I think they
are more likely to be infected than those who are just washing their
hands ... and face, often.
I am surprised nobody says that about your face but after watching the
news girl, I saw how easy it is to contaminate your cheeks or
forehead, then some time later, after you scrubbed your hands, to
smear that contamination down to your nose and mouth.

I do notice the folks here are pretty good about keeping their
distance. I was at Walmart today, a place I want to wash my hands
after being at on a good day. People were stopping and waiting for the
aisles to open up before they went in and we stayed pretty spread out.
They have cleared the promo items that usually clog the aisles.
They did have almost everything people are supposed to be out of,
including an almost normal looking stock of paper products. I got my
BIL an 18 pack of some kind of "soft cloud" sort of TP and it turned
out he had already scored at his Walmart. My FIL has it now.
They also had eggs and other stuff that was supposed to be gone but no
anti bacterial soap or hand sanitizer.
Everyone has stopped rationing bottled water too. I picked up a couple
gallons because right in the middle of all of this my R/O decided to
get stingy. It is barely making enough water for ice. I have a new
element coming on Prime. I threw the filters at it already and no joy
so I am guessing the membrane is plugged.
It is a year and a half old tho.



Most of the larger stores up here are restricting how many people
can enter at a time. My sister in law went to Walmart today
and she said there was a line outside ... with people spaced at
least 6 feet apart, waiting to enter. As a person left the
store another was allowed to go in.


They are set up for that but I guess they decided it wasn't too
crowded because the doors were both open. (each end of the building) .
The last time I was there they only had one door open and they did
seem to be monitoring how many people were there. It must have been OK
because I went right in.
I have to go to Costco next. I am curious how that is going to go. If
it is too busy, Deuce might have to get used to a different dog food.
I really don't want to do it. I am going to see if I can just order
and pick up.



The situation here in Massachusetts is a little more critical than
apparently you are experiencing in Florida. The slope of increases
in confirmed cases continues at the same rate, probably due to more
testing being done but also due to the general spread of the virus.

I thought for a while that the area we live in would be somewhat
isolated because it's in a rural area, well south of Boston and
any other highly populated towns or cities. But it still has
increased rapidly with no slowdown yet apparent. Doesn't take
much when one infected person can pass it on to 2,3 or more others
and each of them they pass it on to 2,3 or more others.

There is a farmer's market up here that takes orders over
the phone and deliver on Thursdays to seniors. My wife has been
ordering fresh fruit, vegetables, citrus plus they have some
chicken, steaks and turkey tips (which are very good). Been
doing that for the past 4 weeks so we don't have to visit any
of the major supermarkets. Essentials like milk, bread, etc.
we can get at a local convenience store.

I am actually eating better now than when this whole thing
started.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

What a great TV ad...
 

On 4/14/20 7:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/14/2020 1:19 AM, wrote:


The situation here in Massachusetts is a little more critical than
apparently you are experiencing in Florida.Â* The slope of increases
in confirmed cases continues at the same rate, probably due to more
testing being done but also due to the general spread of the virus.

I thought for a while that the area we live in would be somewhat
isolated because it's in a rural area, well south of Boston and
any other highly populated towns or cities.Â* But it still has
increased rapidly with no slowdown yet apparent.Â* Doesn't take
much when one infected person can pass it on to 2,3 or more others
and each of them they pass it on to 2,3 or more others.

As of last night, we have fewer than 100 diagnosed cases of COVID-19 in
our semi-rural county, one of the lowest numbers in our state. I hope it
stays that way. Almost everyone seems to be wearing some sort of mask
when they go out. We do, and we each carry small bottles of Purell and a
pack of paper towels when we go out. We spray our hands repeatedly,
spray doorknobs and market carts before we touch them, stay as far away
from other people as we can, et cetera. We only go out every three or
four days, and usually it is just one of us.

Without getting into the particulars, I was alarmed yesterday by what
little of Trump's nightly re-election presentation I saw, and not by
"the facts" he was presenting. I don't know how any rational person can
still believe Trump is the sort of person we need in our nation's
highest political office.






--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.

What a great TV ad...
 

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 21:46:22 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:51:39 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:12:14 -0400, John wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 07:44:41 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:55:47 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:32:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:06:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:14:11 -0400, John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:57:54 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:23:13 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/11/20 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:29:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/10/20 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:31:10 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cud7...ature=youtu.be

Fauci is just hoping nobody compiles the things he said that turn out
to be wrong. He might cost them some grant money.


Oh, so you think Fauci is as intellectually full of **** as you are, eh?

He certainly seem to be very flexible in what he believes is true. The
"facts" seem to change daily and mostly toward the idea that this was
a lot of hysterical hype. The CDC and NIH guidelines are letters in
the sand that disappear at every tide change ... IOW about twice a
day.


Indeed, Fauci is a scientist who absorbs new data and evaluates it.

Science seldom supports an estimate that changes by a factor of 3600%
in 2 weeks. (2.2 million to 60,000) . It also seems pretty unlikely
that science makes the leap from "A home made face mask is useless" to
recommending them for anyone in public.
Those are politically knee jerks, not science.
Nobody wants to tell Nanna she is wasting her time but I bet most
hospitals are throwing those home made face masks in the trash. I know
I would not be happy if my surgeon showed up with a Granny's "do rag"
on his face.

You are sounding much like CNN. There was a very high, non-mitigation estimate,
and a much lower estimate with mitigation. As Spain and Italy were used as
inputs, the output was high. Adjustments have been made based upon actual US
data and we see the result.

Of course, you knew that.

I knew that the demographic and geography made them bad models if that
is what you mean.

As it turns out, you were correct. But so were they when they modified the
model. You start with what you have.


I've seen no recommendations for surgeons to wear home made facemasks. The
purpose of the facemask for the public is to contain the virus if one is a
carrier. A cloth mask, although not perfect, is much better than no mask. Common
sense says that.

The thing that is flawed is it makes the mask wearer much more likely
to be infected unless they follow a far stricter protocol than simply
stuffing the rag in their pocket between wearings. It becomes a very
effective vector for the virus.
Fauci and the experts used to say that

In this case, the purpose of the public wearing the mask is so carriers will not
spread the virus as much. The wearer of the mask is not the one being protected,
although there may be some little protection.

It is still more of a feel good gesture than a real panacea unless the
public gets a whole lot better at the protocols than the girl on the
news. She was wearing a mask and gloves and within an hour she was
coated with the U/V powder used to simulate germs. She was leaving a
trail behind her along with being infected herself.
I did learn one thing. Washing your hands is only half of it. Wash
your face too. This girl had contamination on her face could quickly
be spread to her sinuses after she had washed her hands and taken off
the mask.
If you are serious about this, you almost need to be using "clean
room" protocols.

OTOH at my age, I am not supposed to be infected asymptomatically. It
is supposed to knock my dick in the dirt right away ... if you can
believe what you hear.

Again, you missed the point. Wearing the mask is to protect others, not
yourself.

She should have started with a mouthfull of the powder and blown it through the
mask.

If this is just an old T shirt, plenty would have come through. There
would certainly be enough to contaminate the entire mask, inside and
out..Corona virus is smaller than 0.3 micron.

Since most of the infection is hand to mouth, simply having it on her
hands is plenty to spread the infection and handling a dirty mask all
day will do that.
Gloves are even dumber. If the gloves are infected, so is everything
you touch. The virus may live on the glove longer than it would have
on your bare hand. (impervious surface).
Again, in a truly sterile hospital setting, the glove is used once,
carefully removed and thrown away. People are shoving their dirty
gloves in the same pocket as their dirty mask.
These are just things people are doing to think they are doing
something good and in most cases it is exactly the opposite.

I have yet to see anyone do that. Do you see a lot of that where you live? It
wouldn't take a lot of common sense to dispose of the gloves properly.

Are you saying people are only using masks and gloves once and
throwing them away up there?
That does not seem to be what I see. They pull them off and shove them
in their pocket when they get to the car.
I have trouble not breaking out laughing when I watch what people are
doing.

Actually, I haven't been watching them as you have. I use dog poop bags and
throw them away immediately. They cost a whole three cents each. I don't see
people wearing gloves much, unless they're working in store or carry-out
restaurants. I'd imagine they either rinse them with a clorox solution or throw
them away. I think maybe I give people in general a bit more credit for common
sense than you do.

Perhaps you are experiencing a western Florida thing.

I suspect it was because Costco had a pallet of nitrile gloves near
the door, right at the beginning of this thing. I got a box but for
the shop, not the virus. I do see fewer gloves now but the ones I see
seem to be part of the hoarding. They are not throwing them away. I am
also seeing fewer n-95 masks, probably because they are unavailable
anywhere., It is just the Frito Bandito bandannas and masks made in a
similar fashion.
Nobody seems to be doing the bag trick.

They probably don't know about Uline bags. They're cheap!

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...ootChecked=yes
--

Freedom Isn't Free!