On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:21:45 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:21:47 -0800, "jps" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Preventing the public display for propaganda purposes of the liberals IS
treating the deceased with dignity and deserved attention. If the media
'papparazzi' (sp) need pictures of caskets, they should get permission
from the
next of kin to videotape the funeral.

Much ado about nothing.

That's why this is the first time in history this has happened, because it's
about nothing?

Should the American public be shielded from the real cost of war because
"we're fighting for a bigger purpose?"

I hope your parents weren't so calloused when you were in the military. If
my kid were shot and killed defending our country (which is why maybe the
Bush Admin. doesn't want them seen) I'd want the whole freakin' country to
see what my family had sacraficed and feel the weight of war.

Do you have children?

I have children, one of whom is married to a soldier in Baghdad. I just talked
to her. She thinks the idea of televising her husband's return, if killed or
wounded, is sick. I agree. I sure don't recall seeing the body bags being
unloaded at Travis during the Vietnam war. What would be the purpose?

I do. In fact, I saw the body bags being loaded in Saigon. And showing
them on TV serves a purpose. It drives home the death and destruction
for which George W. Bush is responsible. These servicefolk are dying,
after all, because of his trumped-up war.

Harry, you and I probably saw the same special on the Tan Son Nhut (not Saigon)
Mortuary operations. Body bags were not a nightly show on TV. Did you think what
you saw of body bags presented the deceased in a dignified manner?

Who are you (et al) to say that Americans aren't aware of the death and
destruction occurring in Iraq? Are you (et al) so presumptuous as to think that
only you can appreciate the fact of a soldier getting killed or wounded and that
other Americans must see caskets? You (et al)must hold yourself in some sort of
elevated regard if you believe that.


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Who are you (et al) to say that Americans aren't aware of the death and
destruction occurring in Iraq? Are you (et al) so presumptuous as to think
that
only you can appreciate the fact of a soldier getting killed or wounded
and that
other Americans must see caskets? You (et al)must hold yourself in some
sort of
elevated regard if you believe that.

It's a hell of lot different to eat packaged beef and witness the feed lots
and slaughter houses. You'd like for everyone to have a nicely packaged
product that hides the hideous realities of war.

Shame on you for signing onto this disgraceful practice of hiding the bad
news.

Doesn't surprise me.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:51:43 -0800, "jps" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

Who are you (et al) to say that Americans aren't aware of the death and
destruction occurring in Iraq? Are you (et al) so presumptuous as to think
that
only you can appreciate the fact of a soldier getting killed or wounded
and that
other Americans must see caskets? You (et al)must hold yourself in some
sort of
elevated regard if you believe that.

It's a hell of lot different to eat packaged beef and witness the feed lots
and slaughter houses. You'd like for everyone to have a nicely packaged
product that hides the hideous realities of war.

Shame on you for signing onto this disgraceful practice of hiding the bad
news.

Doesn't surprise me.

What is the difference between televising funerals, with the next of kin
permission, or televising caskets without? Your desire that caskets be shown to
Americans, who don't understand or appreciate death, would be accomplished.
Also, the dignity and privacy of the deceased and the NOK would be protected.
Seems reasonable.

I'm not trying to hide anything. I am respecting the dignity and privacy of the
deceased and the NOK. You seem hell bent on violating that privacy - turning it
into a spectacle for your (et al) own agenda.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:11:17 -0500, JohnH
wrote:

Your desire that caskets be shown to
Americans, who don't understand or appreciate death, would be accomplished.

Speak for yourself. I think Americans understand and appreciate
death.

bb

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:10:10 GMT, bb wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:11:17 -0500, JohnH
wrote:

Your desire that caskets be shown to
Americans, who don't understand or appreciate death, would be accomplished.

Speak for yourself. I think Americans understand and appreciate
death.

bb
Read the entire thread, please. You need to send this to Harry and jcs.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:10:10 GMT, bb wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:11:17 -0500, JohnH
wrote:

Your desire that caskets be shown to
Americans, who don't understand or appreciate death, would be
accomplished.

Speak for yourself. I think Americans understand and appreciate
death.

bb
Read the entire thread, please. You need to send this to Harry and jcs.

You've been thoroughly exposed by Rick. You're hiding behind propriety as a
reason for not exposing the deaths of Americans. Your reasons are as
political as mine.

The problem is, you want to hide and I want to expose. Which of those
traits is more honest? Which of those serves America best?

Konservatives want to expose America to the travesty of 911 and hide them
from the horrors of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Democrats want to expose both.

"jps" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Who are you (et al) to say that Americans aren't aware of the death and
destruction occurring in Iraq? Are you (et al) so presumptuous as to
think
that
only you can appreciate the fact of a soldier getting killed or wounded
and that
other Americans must see caskets? You (et al)must hold yourself in some
sort of
elevated regard if you believe that.

It's a hell of lot different to eat packaged beef and witness the feed
lots
and slaughter houses. You'd like for everyone to have a nicely packaged
product that hides the hideous realities of war.

Shame on you for signing onto this disgraceful practice of hiding the bad
news.

Doesn't surprise me.



I did not see a lot of cameras at Travis AFB when 50,000 dead came home from
South East Asia under a Democrat President. Where was your indignation
then. And they came home in an aluminum casket.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news
I did not see a lot of cameras at Travis AFB when 50,000 dead came home
from
South East Asia under a Democrat President. Where was your indignation
then. And they came home in an aluminum casket.

Weak argument. I recall seeing actual footage of fighting on the evening
news and plenty of caskets coming off planes.

I was a teenager and plenty indignant!!!

"jps" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news
I did not see a lot of cameras at Travis AFB when 50,000 dead came home
from
South East Asia under a Democrat President. Where was your indignation
then. And they came home in an aluminum casket.

Weak argument. I recall seeing actual footage of fighting on the evening
news and plenty of caskets coming off planes.

I was a teenager and plenty indignant!!!


I was at Travis and most of the pictures were of demonstrators spitting on
returning soldiers. Where was the indignation against the leaders?

Calif Bill wrote:

I did not see a lot of cameras at Travis AFB when 50,000 dead came home from
South East Asia under a Democrat President. Where was your indignation
then.

There was more than enough indignation to go around. There wasn't much
need for cameras there, the pictures were already taken in the jungle
while the blood was still flowing, and on the airfields where the bags
were stacked. There was little left to hide.

The military and the president(s) knew they had failed and were at least
looking for a way out. They weren't honorable enough to just walk away
and admit their failure and their complicity but, like GW Bush, they
were willing to kill as many Americans as it took to make themselves
look good until they could escape their responsibility.

This time Bush is trying to hide the fact that there is any blood
involved at all. He still believes he can distance himself from the
meaning of those "transfer cases."

The *******s haven't even got the guts to call them caskets.

Rick