On 12/12/19 8:33 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:06:02 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I'd rank the pistol the
second-best I've ever fired or owned, after the CZ Shadow SP-01.

===

Was your SP-01 capable of firing in double action mode on the first
round, i.e., round in the chamber, hammer down?



I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

I happened to "fondle" a new CZ 75 the other day at my LGS. This was the
standard model, not an SP-01 Shadow like I had, and with a decocker
instead of a safety. DA/SA. Still a great pistol, even in fully stock form.

These days, when I'm not using my 9mm pistol at the range, it rests in
my side of the bed nightstand with a suppressor attached. It's a Walther
PPQ Q4 TAC M2 (ahh, nomenclature!), this one:

https://waltherarms.com/?p=1330

I put a red dot on the pistol. Very nice trigger.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?


Seems odd, he would buy a semiautomatic and convert it to basically a poor
excuse for a single action revolver.

On 12/13/19 6:30 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?


Seems odd, he would buy a semiautomatic and convert it to basically a poor
excuse for a single action revolver.


I used the two SAO 9 mm pistols I owned for target shooting and for
competition. SAO triggers typically offer shorter take up, lighter pull
and crisper breaks than DA or DA/SA triggers. I also had the firing pin
block removed on my CZ. Great pistol and much more accurate for me
than the Sig P226 X-5 I had previously.

The Walther I use now has a very crisp, short take up trigger apparatus,
much smoother than the Glocks and other striker pistols I've fired.
No external safety or decocker, but I don't carry it and the only time
it is loaded, cocked, and ready to fire is when it is in my nightstand
with the can attached. I hope I never have to use it.

The Ruger Mark IV I have is also SAO, with an external safety that keeps
the firearm from firing even if a round is in the pipe and the internal
trigger is cocked. The stock trigger has a fairly long pull, but it
reasonably smooth.

On 12/13/19 5:17 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?


I thought I was reasonable clear... "You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked."

On the two SAO's I owned, you racked the slide to put a round in the
chamber. When you did that, the hammer was back and cocked, and the
firearm was ready to fire. If you wanted to carry that way, you'd flick
on the safety. I don't recall how you would get a round in the pipe
without cocking the hammer, and, I was taught to never drop the hammer
on a live round in a SAO pistol unless you wanted the round to go off.
Even with a heavily knurled hammer, your finger could slip off the
hammer and the round could be hit enough to be fired.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 18:31:38 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/13/19 5:17 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?


I thought I was reasonable clear... "You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked."

On the two SAO's I owned, you racked the slide to put a round in the
chamber. When you did that, the hammer was back and cocked, and the
firearm was ready to fire. If you wanted to carry that way, you'd flick
on the safety. I don't recall how you would get a round in the pipe
without cocking the hammer, and, I was taught to never drop the hammer
on a live round in a SAO pistol unless you wanted the round to go off.
Even with a heavily knurled hammer, your finger could slip off the
hammer and the round could be hit enough to be fired.


My Ruger doesn't have a safety. The thumb deal where the safety would
be decocks the hammer. Then it is a DA for the first shot and SA from
then on. I agree you do have to get used to the difference in
triggers between the first and subsequent shots but that would be part
of the "extend and fire" drill.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:17:59 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?

Use the decocker?

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:51:37 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:17:59 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?

Use the decocker?

That's what I'd do.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:29:37 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:51:37 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:17:59 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?

Use the decocker?

That's what I'd do.

===

Does the CZ have a decocker?

On 14 Dec 2019 17:07:03 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:29:37 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:51:37 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:17:59 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."

===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?

Use the decocker?

That's what I'd do.

===

Does the CZ have a decocker?


cz makes many lines of pistols and models within various lines. Some have
decockers. The one I had did but when I bought it customized, the decocker
was swapped for a traditional SAO safety.

If you're afraid of totally missing a target with the DA, then spending extra money to remove the
decocker so you can search for the SA safety makes great sense.