#72
 

#72
 

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:59:27 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."
===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?
That's how it works if you don't have a decocker.
Don't most DAs have a decocker?
Not many.

I guess I have just been around the good ones ;-)

#72
 

On 12/15/19 2:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:59:27 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."
===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?
That's how it works if you don't have a decocker.
Don't most DAs have a decocker?
Not many.

I guess I have just been around the good ones ;-)

Based on observations at the three public ranges I visit from time to
time, I can report that the mostly "polymer" pistols I see have neither
a traditional safety lever nor a traditional decocker lever. These
pistols are mostly Glocks and clones of Glocks. The one aspect of my
Walther I don't like is that it has neither a safety lever nor a
decocker lever.

#72
 

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:34:34 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/15/19 2:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:59:27 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."
===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?
That's how it works if you don't have a decocker.
Don't most DAs have a decocker?
Not many.

I guess I have just been around the good ones ;-)

Based on observations at the three public ranges I visit from time to
time, I can report that the mostly "polymer" pistols I see have neither
a traditional safety lever nor a traditional decocker lever. These
pistols are mostly Glocks and clones of Glocks. The one aspect of my
Walther I don't like is that it has neither a safety lever nor a
decocker lever.

Which one is it? The PPs have a decocker.

Glocks are DAO so a decocker would have no function. The striker is
"uncocked" until you pull the trigger.

#72
 

Alex Wrote in message:
wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote: wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other "customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer down, aka "idiot proof safe." === I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope your thumb doesn't slip? That's how it works if you don't have a decocker. Don't most DAs have a decocker?Not many.

He probably was thinking of da/sa
--
..


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

#72
 

On 12/15/19 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:34:34 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/15/19 2:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:59:27 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."
===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?
That's how it works if you don't have a decocker.
Don't most DAs have a decocker?
Not many.

I guess I have just been around the good ones ;-)

Based on observations at the three public ranges I visit from time to
time, I can report that the mostly "polymer" pistols I see have neither
a traditional safety lever nor a traditional decocker lever. These
pistols are mostly Glocks and clones of Glocks. The one aspect of my
Walther I don't like is that it has neither a safety lever nor a
decocker lever.

Which one is it? The PPs have a decocker.

Glocks are DAO so a decocker would have no function. The striker is
"uncocked" until you pull the trigger.


Mine is a PPQ...this one. https://waltherarms.com/ppq-q4-tac-2/

I've not seen a recent PPQ with a decocker. I've send four or five
different models.

I was responding to your previous comment, "...around the good ones..."

#72
 

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:56:02 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Alex Wrote in message:
wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote: wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other "customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer down, aka "idiot proof safe." === I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode
for the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope your thumb doesn't slip? That's how it works if you don't have a decocker. Don't most DAs have a decocker?Not many.

He probably was thinking of da/sa

DAO has no use for a decocker and SA only should not be carried hammer
down on a loaded chamber in the first place. We have to be talking
about DA/SA.

#72
 

wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:56:02 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Alex Wrote in message:
wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex
wrote: wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote: I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it
was shipped to my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it
to SAO, among other "customizations," so it had no "double action
mode." You had to rack the slide to put a round in the pipe and
that, of course, would cock the hammer. At that point, if you
wished, you could flick on the manual safety, and "carry" cocked
and locked. I never did that. I carried in Condition 3 when I
carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in Condition 4...no
mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer down, aka "idiot
proof safe." === I can see an advantage to carrying with a
round in the chamber but with the hammer down - as long as the gun
has a double action mode
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and
hope your thumb doesn't slip? That's how it works if you don't
have a decocker. Don't most DAs have a decocker?Not many.

He probably was thinking of da/sa

DAO has no use for a decocker and SA only should not be carried hammer
down on a loaded chamber in the first place. We have to be talking
about DA/SA.



With modern single action, should be able to carry hammer down on a loaded
chamber. The trigger lifts a striker in to position between the hammer and
firing pin has been required for at least 20 years. So a dropped firearm
would not discharge.

#72
 

On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:52:06 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:56:02 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Alex Wrote in message:
wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex
wrote: wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote: I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it
was shipped to my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it
to SAO, among other "customizations," so it had no "double action
mode." You had to rack the slide to put a round in the pipe and
that, of course, would cock the hammer. At that point, if you
wished, you could flick on the manual safety, and "carry" cocked
and locked. I never did that. I carried in Condition 3 when I
carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in Condition 4...no
mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer down, aka "idiot
proof safe." === I can see an advantage to carrying with a
round in the chamber but with the hammer down - as long as the gun
has a double action mode
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and
hope your thumb doesn't slip? That's how it works if you don't
have a decocker. Don't most DAs have a decocker?Not many.

He probably was thinking of da/sa

DAO has no use for a decocker and SA only should not be carried hammer
down on a loaded chamber in the first place. We have to be talking
about DA/SA.



With modern single action, should be able to carry hammer down on a loaded
chamber. The trigger lifts a striker in to position between the hammer and
firing pin has been required for at least 20 years. So a dropped firearm
would not discharge.

Even the old 3 screw Ruger Blackhawks can be refitted by the factory for free to have the striker (transfer bar) to make it safe to carry fully loaded.. However, reportedly it devalues the pistol and ruins its otherwise outstanding trigger. None of my 3 screws have the "upgrade". They are range queens and see no carry duty.

#72
 

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:11:25 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/15/19 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:34:34 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/15/19 2:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:59:27 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:43:26 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:43:53 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I bought my CZ new from the CZ Custom Shop and before it was shipped to
my local gun store, I had the Custom Shop convert it to SAO, among other
"customizations," so it had no "double action mode." You had to rack the
slide to put a round in the pipe and that, of course, would cock the
hammer. At that point, if you wished, you could flick on the manual
safety, and "carry" cocked and locked. I never did that. I carried in
Condition 3 when I carried. Usually, though, the pistol was kept in
Condition 4...no mag in the pistol, no round in the chamber, hammer
down, aka "idiot proof safe."
===

I can see an advantage to carrying with a round in the chamber but
with the hammer down - as long as the gun has a double action mode for
the first round. How do you get a round in the chamber without
cocking the hammer? Do you have to lower the hammer manually and hope
your thumb doesn't slip?
That's how it works if you don't have a decocker.
Don't most DAs have a decocker?
Not many.

I guess I have just been around the good ones ;-)

Based on observations at the three public ranges I visit from time to
time, I can report that the mostly "polymer" pistols I see have neither
a traditional safety lever nor a traditional decocker lever. These
pistols are mostly Glocks and clones of Glocks. The one aspect of my
Walther I don't like is that it has neither a safety lever nor a
decocker lever.

Which one is it? The PPs have a decocker.

Glocks are DAO so a decocker would have no function. The striker is
"uncocked" until you pull the trigger.


Mine is a PPQ...this one. https://waltherarms.com/ppq-q4-tac-2/

I've not seen a recent PPQ with a decocker. I've send four or five
different models.

I was responding to your previous comment, "...around the good ones..."

As I said, a DAO has no need for a decocker. The normal state is
striker or hammer down. It cocks as you pull the trigger.