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Talking boating in a boat group...
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner
Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On 3/26/2019 9:50 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the days. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On 3/26/19 10:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/26/2019 9:50 AM, Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane.* An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record.** In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury.* By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand.* It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Sometimes I yearn for the good old days.* Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle.* Ah ... those were the days. --- It's a little hazy, but in my pre-teen days, my dad's buddy who had a 14' Yellow Jacket or something similar with a 25 hp Evinrude taught me how to water ski. Buddy had a 15' or 16' Lyman, a beautiful boat, with a Merc something or other, big engine for its time, I think, that really hauled butt for its day. He could easily pull two skiers. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On 3/26/2019 10:18 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/26/19 10:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Sometimes I yearn for the good old days.* Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle.* Ah ... those were the days. --- It's a little hazy, but in my pre-teen days, my dad's buddy who had a 14' Yellow Jacket or something similar with a 25 hp Evinrude taught me how to water ski. Buddy had a 15' or 16' Lyman, a beautiful boat, with a Merc something or other, big engine for its time, I think, that really hauled butt for its day. He could easily pull two skiers. When I was about 10 or 11 years old my "girl friend" and I used to waterski behind a 14' Sears aluminum boat with a 5.5 HP Johnson. Wasn't easy and we used the "dock start" technique with the skier sitting on the edge of the dock with skis on top of the water. The boat driver would circle around close by, toss the ski rope and hit the throttle. We got pretty good at it. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
Talking boating in a boat group...
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text - Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the days. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ...... Some of that’s going to happen soon at my place. Only a 115hp “Tower..” |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On 3/26/2019 10:32 AM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the days. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ..... Some of that’s going to happen soon at my place. Only a 115hp “Tower..” Yeah. When I was a kid a 50 hp outboard was a "big" one. When I was a youngster (9-10 years old) I was fascinated with outboard engines and had cutout pictures of all the current manufacturer's models hanging on my bedroom walls. I remember I wrote an essay for school on why Mercury was better than Evinrude or Johnson with all kinds of technical reasons that I probably made up. I ended it with a sentence that said for those who disagree, "More Power to You" which was a Mercury slogan back in the late 50's. I am sure the woman teacher I had must have been amused but she gave me an "A" on the essay, citing my clever use of a pun of sorts. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
9:39 AMMr. Luddite - show quoted text - Yeah. When I was a kid a 50 hp outboard was a "big" one. When I was a youngster (9-10 years old) I was fascinated with outboard engines and had cutout pictures of all the current manufacturer's models hanging on my bedroom walls. I remember I wrote an essay for school on why Mercury was better than Evinrude or Johnson with all kinds of technical reasons that I probably made up. I ended it with a sentence that said for those who disagree, "More Power to You" which was a Mercury slogan back in the late 50's. I am sure the woman teacher I had must have been amused but she gave me an "A" on the essay, citing my clever use of a pun of sorts. ....... Yes, the 50 would have been the “big one” when the “35’s” would have been the hefty standard. And yes, using that closing remark made for a great catch phrase. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
Tim wrote:
9:39 AMMr. Luddite - show quoted text - Yeah. When I was a kid a 50 hp outboard was a "big" one. When I was a youngster (9-10 years old) I was fascinated with outboard engines and had cutout pictures of all the current manufacturer's models hanging on my bedroom walls. I remember I wrote an essay for school on why Mercury was better than Evinrude or Johnson with all kinds of technical reasons that I probably made up. I ended it with a sentence that said for those who disagree, "More Power to You" which was a Mercury slogan back in the late 50's. I am sure the woman teacher I had must have been amused but she gave me an "A" on the essay, citing my clever use of a pun of sorts. ...... Yes, the 50 would have been the “big one” when the “35’s” would have been the hefty standard. And yes, using that closing remark made for a great catch phrase. We had a 23’ Magnolia cuddly cabin with dual 35’s. Boat was lightweight and neared 40 with the 35’s. Dad for some reason switched to 45’s. Performance was the same. An article on the boats. They borrow our boat trailer to haul the boat to the dealer in El Cerrito when they hit a bell buoy in daylight in by the Richmond harbor. Knocked a small hole in the bow near the rub rail. http://www.fiberglassics.com/library...title=Magnolia |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the "Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90. I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:39:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/26/2019 10:32 AM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the days. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ..... Some of that’s going to happen soon at my place. Only a 115hp “Tower..” Yeah. When I was a kid a 50 hp outboard was a "big" one. When I was a youngster (9-10 years old) I was fascinated with outboard engines and had cutout pictures of all the current manufacturer's models hanging on my bedroom walls. I remember I wrote an essay for school on why Mercury was better than Evinrude or Johnson with all kinds of technical reasons that I probably made up. I ended it with a sentence that said for those who disagree, "More Power to You" which was a Mercury slogan back in the late 50's. I am sure the woman teacher I had must have been amused but she gave me an "A" on the essay, citing my clever use of a pun of sorts. I remember when Merc came out with that whopping 100 HP. My mother's boss had to have one (1959-60?) He had it on a 17' Lone Star down at Port Tobacco Md and it was the baddest boat on the water at that time. I doubt it did much more than 40 tho. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
11:32 AMBill - show quoted text - We had a 23’ Magnolia cuddly cabin with dual 35’s. Boat was lightweight and neared 40 with the 35’s. Dad for some reason switched to 45’s. Performance was the same. An article on the boats. They borrow our boat trailer to haul the boat to the dealer in El Cerrito when they hit a bell buoy in daylight in by the Richmond harbor. Knocked a small hole in the bow near the rub rail. http://www.fiberglassics.com/library...title=Magnolia ...... 20 more hp and no difference in performance? Huh. And how do you run over a bell buoy like that? Blind I guess.. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: - show quoted text - My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the "Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90. I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it. ...... I do know that yamaha made mariners small in the late 70s |
Talking boating in a boat group...
- show quoted text - I remember when Merc came out with that whopping 100 HP. My mother's boss had to have one (1959-60?) He had it on a 17' Lone Star down at Port Tobacco Md and it was the baddest boat on the water at that time. I doubt it did much more than 40 tho. ........ Sometimes it seems that 40 on the water feels like 90 on land... |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: - show quoted text - Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. ....... I’ve got a140 v4 and controls laid up for when the merc115 takes a big dump. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: - show quoted text - I remember when Merc came out with that whopping 100 HP. My mother's boss had to have one (1959-60?) He had it on a 17' Lone Star down at Port Tobacco Md and it was the baddest boat on the water at that time. I doubt it did much more than 40 tho. ....... Sometimes it seems that 40 on the water feels like 90 on land... Yup that is true. When we were at the Teamsters deal at LOTO there was a guy with a 15' racing skiff with twin Merc 85s on it and that would go about 60 with 3 people on board. We really thought we were flying. These days that is any garden variety flats or bass boat. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: - show quoted text - Yup that is true. When we were at the Teamsters deal at LOTO there was a guy with a 15' racing skiff with twin Merc 85s on it and that would go about 60 with 3 people on board. We really thought we were flying. These days that is any garden variety flats or bass boat. ..... Yep and now you see twin 350s on the family pontoon. Stuff that was unheard of 30 and even 20 years ago... |
Talking boating in a boat group...
wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
Tim wrote:
11:32 AMBill - show quoted text - We had a 23’ Magnolia cuddly cabin with dual 35’s. Boat was lightweight and neared 40 with the 35’s. Dad for some reason switched to 45’s. Performance was the same. An article on the boats. They borrow our boat trailer to haul the boat to the dealer in El Cerrito when they hit a bell buoy in daylight in by the Richmond harbor. Knocked a small hole in the bow near the rub rail. http://www.fiberglassics.com/library...title=Magnolia ..... 20 more hp and no difference in performance? Huh. And how do you run over a bell buoy like that? Blind I guess.. The boat was really pretty lightweight. Goofing around one day by Berkeley Pier. Was a section between the launch area that was protected from the wind. Dad was having a beer in the bar and buddy and I were out hot ridding the boat. We made a sharp turn and the high winds were about 2’ above the water. Caught the bottom and figured were going fore a swim. Actually lifted one motor out of the water. I think the lack of performance increase was probably same props and same RPM max. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
Tim wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: - show quoted text - My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the "Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90. I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it. ..... I do know that yamaha made mariners small in the late 70s I had a 15 Mariner on my 14’ aluminum skiff. Never a problem with that for the years I had it. Even used it as a kicker for awhile on my Jet Boat. Sold the motor and boat to,a guy who had a place in Baja. The motor was a terrible kicker. The high thrust T-8 put it to shame. The mariner just stirred the water, with little push at low speeds. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
Bill
- show quoted text - We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. ...... Suzuki is doing well in my area. There for a while the 2-smokers got a bad rap for scoring. Done know if people were mixing fuel wrong ow what. For a while in the local you saw lots of shiny Suzuki “parts” motors .. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:11:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/26/2019 3:00 PM, wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot. Wasn't "Tom" a big advocate for E-tecs? They seem to be a good choice for a recreational boater. They are fairly low maintenance, good efficiency and power to weight ratio. The commercial guy said the two he had were flawless for 1500 hours or so but then they just blew up. He did have some L/U problems but we tag the bottom a lot here. The Zekes don't seem to have those problems. I do see a lot of OMC fans showing me pictures of Etecs on police or Coast Guard boats but not much about how long they lasted. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text - Wasn't "Tom" a big advocate for E-tecs? - show quoted text - ........ Yes he did. Not sure if the hp but he has one on his Center console Ranger, and I believe he presently has one in his 26’ pontoon. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:11:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/26/2019 3:00 PM, wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot. Wasn't "Tom" a big advocate for E-tecs? They seem to be a good choice for a recreational boater. They are fairly low maintenance, good efficiency and power to weight ratio. The commercial guy said the two he had were flawless for 1500 hours or so but then they just blew up. He did have some L/U problems but we tag the bottom a lot here. The Zekes don't seem to have those problems. I do see a lot of OMC fans showing me pictures of Etecs on police or Coast Guard boats but not much about how long they lasted. I forget which model of the Etec blew a lot. One of the common horsepower model would get an air lock in the cooling system on one of the cylinders if you idled a long time. At least that is what I read. |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:18:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:11:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/26/2019 3:00 PM, wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot. Wasn't "Tom" a big advocate for E-tecs? They seem to be a good choice for a recreational boater. They are fairly low maintenance, good efficiency and power to weight ratio. The commercial guy said the two he had were flawless for 1500 hours or so but then they just blew up. He did have some L/U problems but we tag the bottom a lot here. The Zekes don't seem to have those problems. I do see a lot of OMC fans showing me pictures of Etecs on police or Coast Guard boats but not much about how long they lasted. I forget which model of the Etec blew a lot. One of the common horsepower model would get an air lock in the cooling system on one of the cylinders if you idled a long time. At least that is what I read. If it was one of these it might make sense. (150-175 class) http://gfretwell.com/ftp/broken%20boat.jpg |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 5:18:44 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:11:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/26/2019 3:00 PM, wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote: I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner Mariner outboard history Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage. Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally. The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner” to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand. Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles. Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name. When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same. In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one advantage” with its dual outboard brands. However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant. In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S.. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular. In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S. So now we know... Interesting. In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha. Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2 smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he likes working on motors. We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here. The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot. Wasn't "Tom" a big advocate for E-tecs? They seem to be a good choice for a recreational boater. They are fairly low maintenance, good efficiency and power to weight ratio. The commercial guy said the two he had were flawless for 1500 hours or so but then they just blew up. He did have some L/U problems but we tag the bottom a lot here. The Zekes don't seem to have those problems. I do see a lot of OMC fans showing me pictures of Etecs on police or Coast Guard boats but not much about how long they lasted. I forget which model of the Etec blew a lot. One of the common horsepower model would get an air lock in the cooling system on one of the cylinders if you idled a long time. At least that is what I read. Wasn't that the "Ficht" |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 1:34:01 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Tim wrote: 11:32 AMBill - show quoted text - We had a 23’ Magnolia cuddly cabin with dual 35’s. Boat was lightweight and neared 40 with the 35’s. Dad for some reason switched to 45’s. Performance was the same. An article on the boats. They borrow our boat trailer to haul the boat to the dealer in El Cerrito when they hit a bell buoy in daylight in by the Richmond harbor. Knocked a small hole in the bow near the rub rail. http://www.fiberglassics.com/library...title=Magnolia ..... 20 more hp and no difference in performance? Huh. And how do you run over a bell buoy like that? Blind I guess.. The boat was really pretty lightweight. Goofing around one day by Berkeley Pier. Was a section between the launch area that was protected from the wind. Dad was having a beer in the bar and buddy and I were out hot ridding the boat. We made a sharp turn and the high winds were about 2’ above the water. Caught the bottom and figured were going fore a swim. Actually lifted one motor out of the water. I think the lack of performance increase was probably same props and same RPM max. Now that makes sense. same props same rpm,same speed. doesn't matter what engine you have |
Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:10:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the days. === You can still enjoy that experience if you go down to the islands and buy a Yamaha "Enduro". They are all over the place, and in many different hp ratings. Maybe I should go into the import business. https://global.yamaha-motor.com/abou...er_source/001/ |
Talking boating in a boat group...
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Talking boating in a boat group...
9:43 PMBill Tim wrote: On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 5:18:44 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:11:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/26/2019 3:00 PM, wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me - show quoted text - Oh yeah. Confused in my dotage. ;) ...... Oh I remember that was Karen smiths big smear. Because of their dubious issues concerning reliability, she poked fun of them every chance she got... |
Talking boating in a boat group...
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Talking boating in a boat group...
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:25:11 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:10:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury "Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout". The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the days. === You can still enjoy that experience if you go down to the islands and buy a Yamaha "Enduro". They are all over the place, and in many different hp ratings. Maybe I should go into the import business. https://global.yamaha-motor.com/abou...er_source/001/ I imagine they are illegal to import but so is cocaine and there seems to be plenty of that around. I guess if you sold them on Ebay or Craig's list, nobody would say anything. There would be a problem for anyone who likes a warranty tho. I am guessing most parts would be the same as the old 2 strokes and they seem to be around. |
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