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#1
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output. Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens.Â* There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus the power required to produce that output. I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I. The new micro, in the manual, states: Rated power consumptionÂ* 1250 watts Max Microwave outputÂ*Â*Â*Â* 1200 watts FrequencyÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2450 MHz Rated CurrentÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 10.4 A OF course, those are Chinese measurements.Â*Â* Heh. Again, those are the ratings of the microwave output power, mostly the klystron that actually produces the microwave energy. If taken as the power required (you can forget about all the phase relationships of voltage vs current and DC vs AC for this purpose) it would mean that the microwave is 100% efficient in converting input power to output power which is impossible. It may vary somewhat from microwave to microwave and it's age but a 1200 watt microwave draws considerably more current (power) to run compared to it's rated output powers. In the case of my relatively new 1200 watt microwave, the measured current draw is slightly over 16 amperes. Call it 16 amps. 120v * 16 amperes = 1920 watts. Even the smaller, 750 watt microwave draws about 11 amps to produce it's rated output of 750 watts. 120v * 11 amperes = 1320 watts. |
#2
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 8:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China === In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything less should be considered suspect. We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator output in watts. 1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine power. The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower. === Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually not being run at the RPM which produces peak power. Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output. Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens. There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus the power required to produce that output. I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured: A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I. The new micro, in the manual, states: Rated power consumptionÂ* 1250 watts Max Microwave outputÂ*Â*Â*Â* 1200 watts FrequencyÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2450 MHz Rated CurrentÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 10.4 A OF course, those are Chinese measurements.Â*Â* Heh.Â* Again, those are the ratings of the microwave output power, mostly the klystron that actually produces the microwave energy.Â* If taken as the power required (you can forget about all the phase relationships of voltage vs current and DC vs AC for this purpose) it would mean that the microwave is 100% efficient in converting input power to output power which is impossible. It may vary somewhat from microwave to microwave and it's age but a 1200 watt microwave draws considerably more current (power) to run compared to it's rated output powers.Â* In the case of my relatively new 1200 watt microwave, the measured current draw is slightly over 16 amperes.Â* Call it 16 amps.Â* 120v * 16 amperes = 1920 watts. Even the smaller, 750 watt microwave draws about 11 amps to produce it's rated output of 750 watts.Â* 120v * 11 amperes = 1320 watts. I need to correct some readings. The current draw of 16 amps was when I was running the 1200 watt microwave on the generator. I realized it may have been a higher current reading due to shape factor of the AC waveform generated by the generator andif there was any voltage droop due to the generator being loaded close to it's max. So, I just measured the current it draws when powered by commercial power. Voltage is 121 vac. Current draw is 14 amps. So, it's using 121v * 14 amperes to produce 1200 watts of microwave power output or 1694 watts "in" to produce 1200 watts "out". Very reasonable and believable readings to me. |
#3
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt.
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#4
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 9:42 AM, True North wrote:
Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt. This stuff is probably only interesting to nerds like me and Greg. We both seem to get a kick out of trying to get the most for the least in generators. For most, I'd just recommend getting the biggest generator you can afford or want and be happy with it. A whole house generator like Harry's is really nice to have but for people like me it's more fun trying to get by on the little ones, especially given that the need for them is so rare. Maybe after a few more winters, some long term outages (and more miles on me) I may spring for a whole house generator. They are popular and have come down in price somewhat but it still kills me that they sit, unused, for months or years other than to start up and run for 10 minutes once a week. |
#5
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 9:42 AM, True North wrote: Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt. This stuff is probably only interesting to nerds like me and Greg. We both seem to get a kick out of trying to get the most for the least in generators. For most, I'd just recommend getting the biggest generator you can afford or want and be happy with it. A whole house generator like Harry's is really nice to have but for people like me it's more fun trying to get by on the little ones, especially given that the need for them is so rare. Maybe after a few more winters, some long term outages (and more miles on me) I may spring for a whole house generator. They are popular and have come down in price somewhat but it still kills me that they sit, unused, for months or years other than to start up and run for 10 minutes once a week. Here, I use the generator with the camper and figure the only long term usage I would really need is if we get a bad earthquake. We can live without AC. Only run mine a few weeks a year. Pool would be a problem. Luckily earthquakes of that magnitude are a long time between them. Unlike your hurricanes, and ice storms. |
#6
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:07:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/12/2018 9:42 AM, True North wrote: Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt. This stuff is probably only interesting to nerds like me and Greg. We both seem to get a kick out of trying to get the most for the least in generators. For most, I'd just recommend getting the biggest generator you can afford or want and be happy with it. A whole house generator like Harry's is really nice to have but for people like me it's more fun trying to get by on the little ones, especially given that the need for them is so rare. Maybe after a few more winters, some long term outages (and more miles on me) I may spring for a whole house generator. They are popular and have come down in price somewhat but it still kills me that they sit, unused, for months or years other than to start up and run for 10 minutes once a week. Of course Harry would agree for me it was just "cheap". I am $300 in this one plus $100 for the propane kit. So far, between the original owner and me it has been used once in 12-13 years. |
#7
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
A few years ago I got one of these out of the scrap. It had sieved a Bering and so n in the housing. 5500 repair at the machine shop. Good to go. I have two neighbors that I told them to get their houses wired properly, and we’ll hook up to my tractor and have power. and all they had to do was buy the fuel. This is a 15K. Mine is a 20Kw.
Same machine though. It did come in handy when a hard wind storm blew over a bunch of trees 5 years ago and we were without power for 3 days. https://www.ebay.com/p/Sigma-16000-M...tor/9022302055 |
#9
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
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#10
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
True North wrote:
Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt. That's typical. That's also why you have lost your ass "upgrading" boats. |
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