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#2
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. |
#3
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. I would figure most microwave units should be about 14 amps max. They are designed to run on 15 amp circuits. |
#4
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:37:24 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. I would figure most microwave units should be about 14 amps max. They are designed to run on 15 amp circuits. Max on a 15a circuit is 12a (1440w). There are a few exceptions but none if it has a plug on it. |
#5
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 2:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:37:24 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. I would figure most microwave units should be about 14 amps max. They are designed to run on 15 amp circuits. Max on a 15a circuit is 12a (1440w). There are a few exceptions but none if it has a plug on it. I am not a code expert but why then, when you go to Lowe's or Home Depot are the wall receptacles marked as "15 amp" or "20 amp"? I've always wired a 20 amp outlet with 12 ga romex and 15 amp with 14 ga. and use the appropriate breaker in the service panel. More often than not I skip the 15 amp altogether and just wire for 20 amp. Have the codes changed? |
#6
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:56:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/12/2018 2:04 PM, wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:37:24 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. I would figure most microwave units should be about 14 amps max. They are designed to run on 15 amp circuits. Max on a 15a circuit is 12a (1440w). There are a few exceptions but none if it has a plug on it. I am not a code expert but why then, when you go to Lowe's or Home Depot are the wall receptacles marked as "15 amp" or "20 amp"? I've always wired a 20 amp outlet with 12 ga romex and 15 amp with 14 ga. and use the appropriate breaker in the service panel. More often than not I skip the 15 amp altogether and just wire for 20 amp. Have the codes changed? No. A 20a has to be on 12ga but you can put a 15 on either as long as there is more than one receptacle on the circuit. A duplex is 2. There is no limit to how many you put on a circuit tho in residential. Commercial has a 180va per duplex (90 per receptacle) rating for each based on full circuit ampacity (not the 80%). I think Canada extends that to residential. The thinking in residential is receptacles are placed for convenience, not actual load and most will not be used most of the time so you can have all you want on a circuit. The NEC does not address "design". Basically they are trying to avoid the need of extension cords and cords running across doorways so the general rule is you are always within 6' of a receptacle without crossing an opening. That includes any wall space 24" or wider. In the kitchen, on the counter top you are 2' from a receptacle. This takes about 6-7 pages of fine print and pictures in the NEC to describe. Damn lawyers ;-) 210.52 is one of the more confusing articles. |
#7
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On 10/12/2018 3:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:56:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/12/2018 2:04 PM, wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:37:24 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. I would figure most microwave units should be about 14 amps max. They are designed to run on 15 amp circuits. Max on a 15a circuit is 12a (1440w). There are a few exceptions but none if it has a plug on it. I am not a code expert but why then, when you go to Lowe's or Home Depot are the wall receptacles marked as "15 amp" or "20 amp"? I've always wired a 20 amp outlet with 12 ga romex and 15 amp with 14 ga. and use the appropriate breaker in the service panel. More often than not I skip the 15 amp altogether and just wire for 20 amp. Have the codes changed? No. A 20a has to be on 12ga but you can put a 15 on either as long as there is more than one receptacle on the circuit. A duplex is 2. There is no limit to how many you put on a circuit tho in residential. Commercial has a 180va per duplex (90 per receptacle) rating for each based on full circuit ampacity (not the 80%). I think Canada extends that to residential. The thinking in residential is receptacles are placed for convenience, not actual load and most will not be used most of the time so you can have all you want on a circuit. The NEC does not address "design". Basically they are trying to avoid the need of extension cords and cords running across doorways so the general rule is you are always within 6' of a receptacle without crossing an opening. That includes any wall space 24" or wider. In the kitchen, on the counter top you are 2' from a receptacle. This takes about 6-7 pages of fine print and pictures in the NEC to describe. Damn lawyers ;-) 210.52 is one of the more confusing articles. I understand all the convenience stuff but you said that "Max on a 15a circuit is 12amps). So why do the 15 amp receptacles say "15 amps" on them? Why is the 15 amp circuit fed from a 15 amp breaker? If code says "max on a 15a circuit is 12 amps" why aren't the breakers 12 amps and the receptacles labeled "12 amps" ? |
#8
posted to rec.boats
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Betsy displays some sense!
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:05:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/12/2018 5:49 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 05:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/11/2018 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:42:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2018 3:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H. wrote: http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3 "The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain." Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant. There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators. About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8? They must have stronger horses in China With no losses considered: 8 hp = 5.96Kw 11 hp = 8.2Kw I completely forgot about a small generator I bought from a neighbor last year. It was brand new, still in the box and she decided to have a whole house generator installed instead. She only wanted $200 for it but after looking it up I decided I'd be ripping her off, so I gave her $300. It's rated at 4,750 peak watts and 3800 watts continuous. Engine is 6.3 hp. I put it together last spring and fired it up. Ran fine, was not overly noisy (for a conventional type generator). It has electric start which is nice and will run on gas or propane, although propane is at a reduced output capacity. I ran it out of gas and stored it away and, until just now, had forgotten I had it. It's a "Wren" that she got from Home Depot: https://tinyurl.com/ybef4hty I keep hearing about the reduced output capacity on propane but I don't see it. I will say fuel consumption is where the difference of energy density shows up. At full load the gasoline consumption is around 0.5 GPH and propane is more like 0.8 GPH although the gasoline is easier to measure accurately. I am just going on a gauge on a 150 gallon tank and that is not very precise. After a similar discussion on the real boat group I tested my generator using my convection oven as the load. This is 5402.7w running a 5500w generator on propane http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg When I plugged in two 100w lights, it tripped the breaker before I could take pictures. I think any generator can temporarily exceed their rated capacity but they may not last long if done on a regular basis. Windings and other components will get hot and go "poof". It's not often that generators are running all the time at full capacity and if they are, you probably need a bigger generator. :-) I mentioned before that the little Honda I have is rated for 2,000 watts surge and 1600 watts continuous or 13.3 amps. It ran my large microwave with a measured amperage draw of over 16 amps for a short time but as soon as I realized how much current was being drawn I shut the microwave off. I wouldn't do that on a regular basis. The circuit breaker on the generator never tripped. I've been looking around for a larger portable generator but I want one with 4 poles instead of the typical 2 poles. 4 poles will allow the engine to run at 1800 RPM to produce it's rated output at 60Hz instead of the typical 3600 RPM in a 2 pole generator. 3600 RPM is the main reason they are so noisy. My Yamaha 2000 runs my Samsung camper microwave fine. Never ran it for a long time, mostly heat water for coffee. Even the bigger microwaves are only about 1200 watts. Shouldn't be a problem for the 2000 watter. John, the 1200 watt rating is the microwave output power, not the power required to produce it. My 1200 watt microwave draws just over 16 amps to run. 120v x 16 amps = 1920 watts which is over the continuous output rating of the Honda (1600 watts). It means the Honda has to run near or at it's "surge" capacity continuously in order to power the 1200 watt microwave. You are correct. Thank you! |
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