On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.

So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v
to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

Watch the video.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter” is very
generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC
converter,” that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.” The
same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.” AC to DC converters are also regularly
referred to as power supplies.

Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory,
this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating
square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch.

But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC
power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The
answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to
create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave.

Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can
actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and
secondary winding.

Maybe that will help clear it up.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this
article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
(October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

I trust the sites I quoted above more.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this
article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
(October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

I trust the sites I quoted above more.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

===

Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't
think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger.

Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two
on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy
duty UPS for my computer equipment.

Primary boat inverter/charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK

http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:30:58 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this
article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
(October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

I trust the sites I quoted above more.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

===

Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't
think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger.

Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two
on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy
duty UPS for my computer equipment.

Primary boat inverter/charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK

http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series

As John said, semantics. The "Inverter/Converters" I grew up with put
out one DC voltage, from 208/230 VAC in.
The "inverter" referred to them stepping the frequency up to 20,000 hz
before it went to the step down transformer.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:30:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this
article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
(October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

I trust the sites I quoted above more.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

===

Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't
think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger.

Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two
on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy
duty UPS for my computer equipment.

Primary boat inverter/charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK

http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series

I never said it was an inverter. That was Bill. And, I misread your wikipedia site this am. It says,
"... inverter, is an electronic device or circuitry that changes direct current (DC) to alternating
current (AC), which is what I've been saying all along.

I bought and installed a CONVERTER, which converts 120vac to 12vdc. And, the DC it puts out also
charges the battery.

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:30:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

From that site: "This article needs additional citations for
verification. Please help improve this
article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may
be challenged and removed.
(October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

I trust the sites I quoted above more.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

===

Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't
think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger.

Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two
on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy
duty UPS for my computer equipment.

Primary boat inverter/charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK

http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series

I never said it was an inverter. That was Bill. And, I misread your
wikipedia site this am. It says,
"... inverter, is an electronic device or circuitry that changes direct
current (DC) to alternating
current (AC), which is what I've been saying all along.

I bought and installed a CONVERTER, which converts 120vac to 12vdc. And,
the DC it puts out also
charges the battery.


Sorry, me bad.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory,
this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating
square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch.

But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC
power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The
answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to
create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave.

===

Modern day sine wave inverters use high frequency switching logic to
approximate a sine wave with only minimal filtering required.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.

So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v
to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

Your converter is pretty much like the "power supply" in your PC. In
fact a PC power supply can give you 12v at 20a or more if you have a
big one. (I use one for a bench supply)

Watch the video.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter� is very
generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC
converter,� that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.� The
same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.� AC to DC converters are also regularly
referred to as power supplies.

Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory,
this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating
square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch.

But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC
power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The
answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to
create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave.

Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can
actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and
secondary winding.

Maybe that will help clear it up.



There is also a lot of arguing about nomenclature (converter,
inverter, power supply etc) and I have no opinion. "Inverter" does
imply an A/C output tho whether it is pure sine wave, modified sine
wave or just a square wave. The rest of them seem to be the same
thing.

I disagree with one thing in particular. "Modern electronics" don't
really "use" AC at all. (for the last decade or two) If it has a
switching power supply the first thing that happens is the input is
changed to DC at 1.4x the nominal line voltage (the peak to peak) and
then it is chopped to a high frequency. (I bet they would work as well
on 100-250vdc) This chopped DC is changed to the desired voltage with
a small transformer. The input can be the noisiest, most unstable
thing you throw at it and the supply cleans it right up. The noise
filter on your PC, TV or whatever is to keep the noise IN, not out.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:32:04 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.

So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v
to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

Your converter is pretty much like the "power supply" in your PC. In
fact a PC power supply can give you 12v at 20a or more if you have a
big one. (I use one for a bench supply)

Watch the video.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter” is very
generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC
converter,” that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.” The
same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.” AC to DC converters are also regularly
referred to as power supplies.

Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory,
this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating
square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch.

But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC
power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The
answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to
create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave.

Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can
actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and
secondary winding.

Maybe that will help clear it up.



There is also a lot of arguing about nomenclature (converter,
inverter, power supply etc) and I have no opinion. "Inverter" does
imply an A/C output tho whether it is pure sine wave, modified sine
wave or just a square wave. The rest of them seem to be the same
thing.

I disagree with one thing in particular. "Modern electronics" don't
really "use" AC at all. (for the last decade or two) If it has a
switching power supply the first thing that happens is the input is
changed to DC at 1.4x the nominal line voltage (the peak to peak) and
then it is chopped to a high frequency. (I bet they would work as well
on 100-250vdc) This chopped DC is changed to the desired voltage with
a small transformer. The input can be the noisiest, most unstable
thing you throw at it and the supply cleans it right up. The noise
filter on your PC, TV or whatever is to keep the noise IN, not out.

I suppose it's semantics. This is what I just installed in the rig:

https://smile.amazon.com/Arterra-WF-... B5X67K1X61700

The manufacturer calls it a 'converter'. That's good enough for me.