|
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? |
Here's a link
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. The converter, in my rig, also charges the battery. |
Here's a link
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:12:26 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. === The two are sometimes interchangeably but that's not really correct. A true converter is designed to provide a steady DC voltage at a level that approximates a fully charged battery, about 12.6 to 13.2 volts. In effect, a converter is a DC power supply. A charger on the other hand, must supply a higher voltage initially, typically in the range of 14.2 to 14.6 volts, and then taper off as the battery becomes fully charged. Depending on the mode, my converter puts out three voltages: Absorption Mode: Normal operation. Output in 13.6 vdc range. Bulk Mode: Output switches to 14.4 vdc for max of four hours. Could be a short in battery cell or other issue. Float Mode: Battery charging only with trickle charge of 13.2 vdc. When a demand is placed on converter, like turning on lights, operating slides, etc, the converter switches automatically to Absorption Mode. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. That is correct. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. |
Here's a link
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. === That would be an inverter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)" I trust the sites I quoted above more. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer |
Here's a link
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:32:04 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. Your converter is pretty much like the "power supply" in your PC. In fact a PC power supply can give you 12v at 20a or more if you have a big one. (I use one for a bench supply) Watch the video. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter” is very generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC converter,” that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.” The same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.” AC to DC converters are also regularly referred to as power supplies. Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory, this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch. But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave. Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and secondary winding. Maybe that will help clear it up. There is also a lot of arguing about nomenclature (converter, inverter, power supply etc) and I have no opinion. "Inverter" does imply an A/C output tho whether it is pure sine wave, modified sine wave or just a square wave. The rest of them seem to be the same thing. I disagree with one thing in particular. "Modern electronics" don't really "use" AC at all. (for the last decade or two) If it has a switching power supply the first thing that happens is the input is changed to DC at 1.4x the nominal line voltage (the peak to peak) and then it is chopped to a high frequency. (I bet they would work as well on 100-250vdc) This chopped DC is changed to the desired voltage with a small transformer. The input can be the noisiest, most unstable thing you throw at it and the supply cleans it right up. The noise filter on your PC, TV or whatever is to keep the noise IN, not out. I suppose it's semantics. This is what I just installed in the rig: https://smile.amazon.com/Arterra-WF-... B5X67K1X61700 The manufacturer calls it a 'converter'. That's good enough for me. |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes the factory trailer brake controller. |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 6:20 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:12:26 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. === The two are sometimes interchangeably but that's not really correct. A true converter is designed to provide a steady DC voltage at a level that approximates a fully charged battery, about 12.6 to 13.2 volts. In effect, a converter is a DC power supply. A charger on the other hand, must supply a higher voltage initially, typically in the range of 14.2 to 14.6 volts, and then taper off as the battery becomes fully charged. Depending on the mode, my converter puts out three voltages: Absorption Mode: Normal operation. Output in 13.6 vdc range. Bulk Mode: Output switches to 14.4 vdc for max of four hours. Could be a short in battery cell or other issue. Float Mode: Battery charging only with trickle charge of 13.2 vdc. When a demand is placed on converter, like turning on lights, operating slides, etc, the converter switches automatically to Absorption Mode. That's typical of the newer converters and battery chargers. Looking at the picture you posted of your new one I suspect it's also a switching power supply device. Too small to be of the older types. I forgot also to include a reply to Greg's question about if the truck charges the house battery in a RV. It does because the house battery is also used to power the trailer's electric brakes. In the event of a "break-away" the small cable that you hook up in addition to the safety chains causes the trailer brakes to be applied, powered only by the trailer's house battery. |
Here's a link
On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 3:30:18 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. To expand on that, I used to have an older Winnebago class A that worked differently. The chassis battery was by default used and charged by the motor, and the house battery only charged by shore power or when the gen was running. There was, however, a pair of switches up on the dash that let you connect the house battery to the chassis for charging while running, and for emergency cranking. No automatic sensing on it. On one trip we were running in the rain on the Penn Turnpike. I noticed the lights getting dimmer and the wiper running slower, and realized I had a problem. The alternator had died. I pulled over and fired up the generator, plugged in a battery charger I had brought along and hooked that up to the chassis battery without ever shutting down. That got me to the next exit that had a repair shop. They were busy but agreed to get me parts and let me use their parking lot for doing the repair. I swapped out the alternator and we were back on the road. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:14:32 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. The converter, in my rig, also charges the battery. === The way you described it, with multiple voltage modes, it would more properly be called a converter/charger since it can fill both roles. |
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On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. === That would be an inverter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)" I trust the sites I quoted above more. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer === Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger. Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy duty UPS for my computer equipment. Primary boat inverter/charger: https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series |
Here's a link
wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. Your converter is pretty much like the "power supply" in your PC. In fact a PC power supply can give you 12v at 20a or more if you have a big one. (I use one for a bench supply) Watch the video. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter” is very generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC converter,” that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.” The same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.” AC to DC converters are also regularly referred to as power supplies. Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory, this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch. But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave. Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and secondary winding. Maybe that will help clear it up. There is also a lot of arguing about nomenclature (converter, inverter, power supply etc) and I have no opinion. "Inverter" does imply an A/C output tho whether it is pure sine wave, modified sine wave or just a square wave. The rest of them seem to be the same thing. I disagree with one thing in particular. "Modern electronics" don't really "use" AC at all. (for the last decade or two) If it has a switching power supply the first thing that happens is the input is changed to DC at 1.4x the nominal line voltage (the peak to peak) and then it is chopped to a high frequency. (I bet they would work as well on 100-250vdc) This chopped DC is changed to the desired voltage with a small transformer. The input can be the noisiest, most unstable thing you throw at it and the supply cleans it right up. The noise filter on your PC, TV or whatever is to keep the noise IN, not out. At System Industries, one of our biggest problems on the controllers was the Pass Transistor power supplies passing any input line glitch through. Especially bad in the Rockies as they had lots of terrible lighting storms and little damping on the power lines. I tried to go to,a,much cheaper, much better switcher, and was told by the Veep on manufacturing he had ordered a thousand of the old supplies. Who the original manufacturer was telling they were dropping. 4x TS price of the switchers. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:21:29 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed. So in a jam you could plug the truck in and charge the house battery enough to get the jacks working and such. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:34:40 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:32:04 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. Your converter is pretty much like the "power supply" in your PC. In fact a PC power supply can give you 12v at 20a or more if you have a big one. (I use one for a bench supply) Watch the video. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter” is very generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC converter,” that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.” The same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.” AC to DC converters are also regularly referred to as power supplies. Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory, this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch. But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave. Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and secondary winding. Maybe that will help clear it up. There is also a lot of arguing about nomenclature (converter, inverter, power supply etc) and I have no opinion. "Inverter" does imply an A/C output tho whether it is pure sine wave, modified sine wave or just a square wave. The rest of them seem to be the same thing. I disagree with one thing in particular. "Modern electronics" don't really "use" AC at all. (for the last decade or two) If it has a switching power supply the first thing that happens is the input is changed to DC at 1.4x the nominal line voltage (the peak to peak) and then it is chopped to a high frequency. (I bet they would work as well on 100-250vdc) This chopped DC is changed to the desired voltage with a small transformer. The input can be the noisiest, most unstable thing you throw at it and the supply cleans it right up. The noise filter on your PC, TV or whatever is to keep the noise IN, not out. I suppose it's semantics. This is what I just installed in the rig: https://smile.amazon.com/Arterra-WF-... B5X67K1X61700 The manufacturer calls it a 'converter'. That's good enough for me. As I said it works for me but then the wall wart that charges your phone is also a converter. Back when they were fairly new (early 60s) IBM called those supplies "inverter/converters" covering all bases I suppose. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:30:58 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. === That would be an inverter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)" I trust the sites I quoted above more. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer === Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger. Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy duty UPS for my computer equipment. Primary boat inverter/charger: https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series As John said, semantics. The "Inverter/Converters" I grew up with put out one DC voltage, from 208/230 VAC in. The "inverter" referred to them stepping the frequency up to 20,000 hz before it went to the step down transformer. |
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On 9/29/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:21:29 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed. So in a jam you could plug the truck in and charge the house battery enough to get the jacks working and such. Yup. I know when I first bought the little camper that I gave away the battery was on it's last legs. The monitor inside the camper would display that it was almost fully discharged. Hook it up to tow somewhere with the truck and when I arrived the batter monitor indicated "full" but would rapidly discharge because it needed to be replaced. |
Here's a link
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes the factory trailer brake controller. Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since 2009. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:18:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 6:20 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:12:26 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. === The two are sometimes interchangeably but that's not really correct. A true converter is designed to provide a steady DC voltage at a level that approximates a fully charged battery, about 12.6 to 13.2 volts. In effect, a converter is a DC power supply. A charger on the other hand, must supply a higher voltage initially, typically in the range of 14.2 to 14.6 volts, and then taper off as the battery becomes fully charged. Depending on the mode, my converter puts out three voltages: Absorption Mode: Normal operation. Output in 13.6 vdc range. Bulk Mode: Output switches to 14.4 vdc for max of four hours. Could be a short in battery cell or other issue. Float Mode: Battery charging only with trickle charge of 13.2 vdc. When a demand is placed on converter, like turning on lights, operating slides, etc, the converter switches automatically to Absorption Mode. That's typical of the newer converters and battery chargers. Looking at the picture you posted of your new one I suspect it's also a switching power supply device. Too small to be of the older types. I forgot also to include a reply to Greg's question about if the truck charges the house battery in a RV. It does because the house battery is also used to power the trailer's electric brakes. In the event of a "break-away" the small cable that you hook up in addition to the safety chains causes the trailer brakes to be applied, powered only by the trailer's house battery. Hope he reads it. |
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On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:30:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H. wrote: The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac. === That would be an inverter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter From that site: "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)" I trust the sites I quoted above more. https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer === Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger. Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy duty UPS for my computer equipment. Primary boat inverter/charger: https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series I never said it was an inverter. That was Bill. And, I misread your wikipedia site this am. It says, "... inverter, is an electronic device or circuitry that changes direct current (DC) to alternating current (AC), which is what I've been saying all along. I bought and installed a CONVERTER, which converts 120vac to 12vdc. And, the DC it puts out also charges the battery. |
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On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:20:55 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:21:29 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed. So in a jam you could plug the truck in and charge the house battery enough to get the jacks working and such. Yes, that's what I did on our last trip. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long without the engine running. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:19:16 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:20:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:21:29 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed. So in a jam you could plug the truck in and charge the house battery enough to get the jacks working and such. Yes, that's what I did on our last trip. It might be handy to have a longer cable so you would not have to back the truck up to the hitch ... but that might just be me. |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes the factory trailer brake controller. Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since 2009. I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading. The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4 of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you have the headlights on. I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points. |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long without the engine running. Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both). |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:08:11 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:19:16 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:20:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:21:29 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed. So in a jam you could plug the truck in and charge the house battery enough to get the jacks working and such. Yes, that's what I did on our last trip. It might be handy to have a longer cable so you would not have to back the truck up to the hitch ... but that might just be me. I just need to get the back of the truck to within about 4' of the pin box, so it's no problem. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long without the engine running. Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both). I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer, and the headlights turn on automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging circuit to work. It'll give me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose cone. Removing caulk is a bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side. http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:23:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes the factory trailer brake controller. Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since 2009. I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading. The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4 of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you have the headlights on. I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points. If I'm on the interstate, towing the rig (11,700 lbs) I always run in T/H mode with the cruise control on. If not on the interstate I'm still using T/H mode, but if the road is hilly I'll shut off the cruise control. |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 6:09 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long without the engine running. Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both). I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer, and the headlights turn on automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging circuit to work. It'll give me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose cone. Removing caulk is a bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side. http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg In my Canyon owner's manual it doesn't really say much about it other than one short paragraph that indicates a non-vehicle battery (like a house battery in an RV) will charge under either of the two conditions I described. That's all it says. Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck. A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2 gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up and assumed you just can't do it. Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise spillage will occur." I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it. |
Here's a link
On 9/29/2018 6:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:23:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes the factory trailer brake controller. Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since 2009. I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading. The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4 of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you have the headlights on. I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points. If I'm on the interstate, towing the rig (11,700 lbs) I always run in T/H mode with the cruise control on. If not on the interstate I'm still using T/H mode, but if the road is hilly I'll shut off the cruise control. Your truck may not operate the same way. I think yours is a little older than mine, a diesel and a full sized pickup. The designers and engineers can't leave good enough alone sometimes. They are always dreaming up new things to add, just to keep life interesting. In my business I called it the "not invented here" syndrome. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 6:09 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long without the engine running. Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both). I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer, and the headlights turn on automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging circuit to work. It'll give me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose cone. Removing caulk is a bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side. http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg In my Canyon owner's manual it doesn't really say much about it other than one short paragraph that indicates a non-vehicle battery (like a house battery in an RV) will charge under either of the two conditions I described. That's all it says. Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck. A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2 gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up and assumed you just can't do it. Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise spillage will occur." I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it. Stop, please. You'll have me digging my manual(s) out. I've got two since it's a diesel. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:58:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/29/2018 6:11 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:23:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does. Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck supplies the charging voltage. I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the "house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the rig was running. I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have two batteries. When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired, a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug. The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes the factory trailer brake controller. Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since 2009. I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading. The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4 of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you have the headlights on. I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points. If I'm on the interstate, towing the rig (11,700 lbs) I always run in T/H mode with the cruise control on. If not on the interstate I'm still using T/H mode, but if the road is hilly I'll shut off the cruise control. Your truck may not operate the same way. I think yours is a little older than mine, a diesel and a full sized pickup. The designers and engineers can't leave good enough alone sometimes. They are always dreaming up new things to add, just to keep life interesting. In my business I called it the "not invented here" syndrome. Mine's a 2009. I think, but I'm not sure, that the charging pin #'s may be the same. I'll check it out tomorrow, if I think of it. |
Here's a link
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck. A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2 gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up and assumed you just can't do it. Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise spillage will occur." I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it. Ah "progress". I am guessing that was done to avoid that "loose gas cap" throwing a code thing. It will be fine until the seal on that flapper fails and you find out you have to replace the whole tank or something. I would be careful that you don't damage the seal and find out. I have seen that on other new cars tho. Some don't even have a door over it, just a port you poke the nozzle in. This is the type of thing you notice when you are filling 10 gas cans every 6-7 weeks ;-) Usually several cars come and go while I am there. I get all sorts of questions "do you have a lawn service", "is there a hurricane coming", "are you a prepper". Every once in a while some old redneck will ask me what kind of boat I have. |
Here's a link
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? It monitors the voltage input and picks when either side is at 13.5V. The problem is in the unpicked state the circuit draws 15ma, Blue Sky ACR, and will run down the battery if either lead is direct connected to the battery. My truck would not start after a week and a half and the boat would run down the batteries even with the dual batt switch off. Put a switch in the ground line on both truck and boat. |
Here's a link
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: John H. wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: 9:03 AMJohn H - show quoted text - Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means by 'same bluegrass festival on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival? It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun with good friends. ....... At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine. Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200 mi in before Monday. I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new converter, and now I'm tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch. Dc to AC is an Inverter. Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc. The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an inverter. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name. Weigh it ;-) If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter. Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little transformer. That can be up or down. Switching power supply. Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies. Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use them. I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery charger. For RV purposes, I think of it this way: If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying 12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you could say they are really all running off the house battery and the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove the house battery and the lights will still work. Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not, why not? Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been there. Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was only picked when the motor was running? That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when engine is running. My 2004 Chevy the pin is hot all the time. |
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