On 23 Jul 2003 07:02:18 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
You should probably learn to read a little better. I said that the
pressure against the top of the rings is less than the pressure in the
cylinder. You've already stated that's impossible. But you were wrong
yet again. Now you're finally starting to understand why you were wrong
... maybe. We'll see.

Steve

Now, let me get this perfectly straight. You are saying

1. that the pressure on the TOP of the rings, due to compression is
LESS than the pressure in the rest of the cylinder?? heehe!!!

2. But, on the same hand, magically, the pressure on the bottom of the
ring is GREATER than the pressure in the rest of the crankcase?????

3. The pressure on the bottom of the rings is "many times greater"
than the 100 or so psi of the combustion chamber? How much? is it 1000
psi? 1,000,000 psi????

However, just to keep things on track and prevent all your obfuscation
... The original point I made is that all RIC engines burn some oil in
normal operation. You said that's wrong and an engine should burn NO
oil and asked for references saying engines should burn oil. References
from such notable sources as GM and Detroit Diesel say engines normally
burn oil. Yet you refuse to believe those sources.

GM says:

All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and
internal moving parts from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston
rings. When a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on
the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is
consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil
consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.

Here's another one, quoting from the auto clinic section of the feb 2002
issue of popular mechanics:

Engines burn a small amount of oil. Modern low-volatility oils and tighter engine
sealing mean they burn somewhat less--but they still burn it.

And if you don't like GM, Detroit Diesel or Popular Mechanics, how about
Toyota. From the Supra handbook at
http://www.brandwood.net/supra/handbook/2/oil.html

ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION It is normal that an engine should consume some
engine oil during normal engine operation. The causes of oil consumption in a
normal engine are as follows.

Oil is used to lubricate pistons, piston rings and cylinders. A thin film of oil is left
on the cylinder wall when a piston moves downwards in the cylinder. High
negative pressure generated when the vehicle is decelerating sucks some of
this oil into the combustion chamber. This oil as well as some part of the oil film
left on the cylinder wall is burned by the high temperature combustion gasses
during the combustion process.

Oil is also used to lubricate the stems of the intake valves. Some of this oil is
sucked into the combustion chamber together with the intake air and is burned
along with the fuel. High temperature exhaust gases also burn the oil used to
lubricate the exhaust valve stems.

So you see, Toyota (who also probably knows more about engines than you
do) says that engines normally BURN oil. They also say that in the
example YOU gave of oil getting by the exhaust valve stems, the oil ends
up being BURNED. They also say that the oil that gets by the intake
valve stems is also BURNED, as is the oil film left on the cylinder wall
.... BURNED. I know that last one might just confuse you because they
used the word consume. But they do say that the way oil is consumed is
by BURNing it.

So if you want to continue to claim that an engine should normally burn
NO oil, you'll have to take that up with GM, Toyota and Popular
Mechanics who ALL explicitly say you're wrong.

Steve

HEY!

You forgot where most of the oil goes- Past the exhaust valve.

(but only on the exhaust stroke.)