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Usage of motoroil
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Joe" wrote in message .. . snip Again, I ask a simple question. If the rings, on a properly broken in engine seal well enough to keep molecularly small exhaust gases from getting INTO the crankcase, They don't "seal well enough to keep molecularly small exhaust gases from getting into the crankcase" . Where do you think crankcase pressure comes from? From GM: "If we could perfectly seal the combustion chamber between piston and cylinder wall, there would not be any appreciable cylinder block pressure. But, in fact, while piston rings attempt to do the job for us, in the best applications they can seal only about 95% or less of the pressure developed in the combustion chamber. This "blow-by", comprised mostly of unburned mixture of air and fuel, needs to be managed back into the intake stream for emissions purposes." http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_.../200103-en.pdf at a pressure of approx. 100 p.s.i., how in the HELL does something molecularly larger (oil) make it through the same rings at a third of the pressure? How? Very simple Asslicker, Hey, look here. I'm about sick of your petty, little boy name calling crap. Why don't you just come to the atlanta, ga area and I'll show you around. Being wrong all the time getting under your skin? Do you dispute the above tech reference? Why don't you answer the simple yes or no questions put to you? Perhaps we could take a tour of the dojo where I train? Ya ever see the Seinfeld where Kramer was taking karate? |
Usage of motoroil
Speaking of asslickers, did you call the engineering company that I contract for yet? What did they say? I could care less where you work, and would never call if I did. I (unlike you) am mentally stable Also, did you research the size of California lakes yet? Can you prove me wrong? I only sided with Bill due to your track record, never actually checked, nor cared. Now back to you flogging. Do you dispute the GM tech reference? Yes or no: In a normal engine the oil ring on a piston is not 100% effective in removing all of the oil from the cylinder wall. In a normal engine a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder walls on the downward stroke. In a normal engine some oil is burned in the combustion chamber. In a normal engine some oil is consumed in the combustion chamber. |
Usage of motoroil
Let me tell you something Steve, you keep up that crap about my daughter, and I'll hunt you down like the worthless ****ing dog you are. Do you understand me? Now, do what you want, call the authorities, etc. You are a good for nothing piece of ****. Are you married? If so, I'll bet your wife is just miserable living around an anal dick sucker such as yourself. If not, now you know why. I've had it with you. Keep it up, ****head. Wow Asslicker! You really are at the edge with one foot on a banana peel aren't you? |
Usage of motoroil
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:26:57 GMT, "Joe" wrote:
Let me tell you something Steve, you keep up that crap about my daughter, and I'll hunt you down like the worthless ****ing dog you are. Do you understand me? Now, do what you want, call the authorities, etc. You are a good for nothing piece of ****. Are you married? If so, I'll bet your wife is just miserable living around an anal dick sucker such as yourself. If not, now you know why. I've had it with you. Keep it up, ****head. Wow Asslicker! You really are at the edge with one foot on a banana peel aren't you? He's flipped his lid. It's hard to tell whether he's so stupid that he doesn't realize he's wrong or whether he's so stupid that he can't admit to being wrong when he knows he is. But in either case, he's turned into a raving lunatic. He's probably the type who would shoot someone for accidentally cutting them off in traffic, or turn his car into a lethal weapon and attack them with it. He really seems pretty high strung. I hope he is getting therapy. Steve |
Usage of motoroil
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Usage of motoroil
Grasshopper, breath deeply my little asskisser, and you will feel better.
"basskisser" wrote in message om... (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On 14 Jul 2003 10:26:05 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:12:20 GMT, "Joe" wrote: This from someone who has convinced himself (and Joe) that consume and burn mean the same thing!!!!! By the way, my neighbor and I had a good laugh at you and Joe last evening. He's a Chrysler certified mechanic, so I've shown him your posts. As we were working on his Honda lawnmower motor, I told him I thought it was the carb acting up, and he said "Nah, probably not burning enough oil."! Birds of a feather. Don't you find it a little curious that NO ONE has agreed with your position? DimDummy's neighbor has. Obviously they drink from the same well. At least his 8yo daughter now knows her father is an idiot. You have no shame. Because you're wrong, and know it, you'll stop at nothing to try to make yourself look like a man. You're not. You wouldn't be worth getting my shoes messy to stop on your idiot little pencil neck. **** you. And because you're wrong, and you know it, you have to use your own 8 yo daughter since you can't stand up for yourself. What a pig you are. Steve Let me tell you something Steve, you keep up that crap about my daughter, and I'll hunt you down like the worthless ****ing dog you are. Do you understand me? Now, do what you want, call the authorities, etc. You are a good for nothing piece of ****. Are you married? If so, I'll bet your wife is just miserable living around an anal dick sucker such as yourself. If not, now you know why. I've had it with you. Keep it up, ****head. |
Usage of motoroil
Asskisser do you kiss your daughter with that trash mouth?
"basskisser" wrote in message om... (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On 14 Jul 2003 10:26:05 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:12:20 GMT, "Joe" wrote: This from someone who has convinced himself (and Joe) that consume and burn mean the same thing!!!!! By the way, my neighbor and I had a good laugh at you and Joe last evening. He's a Chrysler certified mechanic, so I've shown him your posts. As we were working on his Honda lawnmower motor, I told him I thought it was the carb acting up, and he said "Nah, probably not burning enough oil."! Birds of a feather. Don't you find it a little curious that NO ONE has agreed with your position? DimDummy's neighbor has. Obviously they drink from the same well. At least his 8yo daughter now knows her father is an idiot. You have no shame. Because you're wrong, and know it, you'll stop at nothing to try to make yourself look like a man. You're not. You wouldn't be worth getting my shoes messy to stop on your idiot little pencil neck. **** you. And because you're wrong, and you know it, you have to use your own 8 yo daughter since you can't stand up for yourself. What a pig you are. Steve Let me tell you something Steve, you keep up that crap about my daughter, and I'll hunt you down like the worthless ****ing dog you are. Do you understand me? Now, do what you want, call the authorities, etc. You are a good for nothing piece of ****. Are you married? If so, I'll bet your wife is just miserable living around an anal dick sucker such as yourself. If not, now you know why. I've had it with you. Keep it up, ****head. |
Usage of motoroil
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 17 Jul 2003 11:06:03 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message Again, I ask a simple question. If the rings, on a properly broken in engine seal well enough to keep molecularly small exhaust gases from getting INTO the crankcase, at a pressure of approx. 100 p.s.i., how in the HELL does something molecularly larger (oil) make it through the same rings at a third of the pressure? How? Because the pressure of the oil against the rings as they are moving down the cylinder wall is many times greater than 100 psi. And because oil molecules tend to stick together in a thin film. That's one of the properties that makes oil a good lubricant. What will really blow your mind when you think of it is that oil can get past the rings on the power stroke, where the pressure in the cylinder is much greater than 100 psi. However, the pressure against the rings from the top is nowhere near as high as the pressure in the cylinder due to the tight clearance between the piston and the cylinder. If the rings had to face the full pressure of the combustion gasses in the cylinder (as the would if there was a lot of space between the piston and cylinder) they could never do their job of keeping combustion gasses out of the crankcase. As it is, they only have to seal against the small amount of gasses that make it between the piston and the cylinder. Steve Okay, here we go. You are now claiming that the pressure in the crankcase, at the time that a piston is moving down the cylinder, is "many times greater than 100 p.s.i.????? Are you just plain flipping NUTS? Let's say it's an eight cylinder motor, okay? Using YOUR analogy, then, with eight cylinders, there is almost always a cylinder moving "down". SO, just how many times 100 psi should my oil pressure gauge show? Should it be 500 psi? 600psi? Now, because it is essentially ONE vessel ie: the crankcase, there can not be a differential in pressure, so don't even try it. That would be akin to saying that the pressure is different in one side of an air compressor tank than it is in the other side. NOT. Somehow, I knew you wouldn't get it. Well, I know I shouldn't do this because proving you wrong has just gotten to be a dangerous exercise. But I'll leave you with a few thoughts: First, do you think your oil pressure gauge is reading the pressure of the oil against the rings as they are moving rapidly down the cylinder wall? or do you think it is reading the pressure at the oil pressure gauge sensor? Do you think the pressure the oil is under is constant everywhere in the engine? i.e., do you think it's under the same pressure when it's between the crankshaft and the rod with the rod pushing down on the crankshaft as it is dripping down from head back into the crankcase? And second, we'll take your hypothetical air compressor tank and attach a hose to the tank that's only, say, 0.05 inches ID and 100 feet long with the far end about 5% open to simulate the efficiency of a set of rings. Say there is 100 psi against the walls of the tank feeding the hose. How much pressure do you think there will be against the restrictor at the far end of that long, tiny hose? Remember, the tank and all the hose really is one big continuous vessel. Do you really think the pressure is constant against the walls everywhere in that vessel? Do you really think the 95% restrictor is seeing the same 100 psi against it at the end of 100 feet of 0.05" hose as it would be seeing if it were right at the outlet of the tank? I HOPE you say no. Hell, an even simpler case: You have 2 garden hoses, both 100 feet long and both with the same type of sprinkler head on each. One hose is 1" think and the other is 0.001" think. Turn on the valve and let the same water pressure into the hoses. Which one do you think will have more pressure at the sprinkler when you open the sprinkler? Or do you think both sprinklers will have the same pressure behind them? Now, there is the EXACT same amount of pressure of the gasses on the rings, in pounds per square inch, as there is on the top of the piston. VERY simple physics. Maybe TOO simple physics. Yes, definitely TOO simple physics. You're thinking in the static case when the situation we're talking about is dynamic. I realize that's probably too much of a stretch for you. Now that I've proven you wrong yet again, are you gonna come after me and hunt me down? Steve I said I would hunt you like the cur dog that you are, if you make statements about my daughter, understand? I said nothing about it being dangerous! ;) Now, yes, simple physics. Pressure is pressure. You are getting pressure confused with volume. Think of what you are implying here. It is the same as saying that the PISTONS are responsible for making crankcase pressure. Now, again, I'll use a very simple analogy. Let's take an air compressor, with tank. Let's say it's capable of 200psi. With me so far? Doubtful, but we'll continue. Now, does this mean that every time the piston pushes air INTO the tank that the air is @ 200psi? NO, the air is the same pressure as the tank pressure. Now, I know that your sitting there saying that's impossible. Here is where the volumetric change comes in. The pressure changes with the VOLUME of air being pushed in. That compresses it. Period. Same with a water pipe. Pressure starts out at 60 psi, and if the pipe is level, comes out very close to starting pressure. The only reason that the pressure drops a tad is because of friction from the inside of the pipe, as well as, with the pipe not being completely smooth, laminer flow isn't possible, it becomes turbulent. Point is, again, in a vessel (this case, a crankcase) pressure is equal on all sides. |
Usage of motoroil
On 21 Jul 2003 08:03:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On 18 Jul 2003 04:15:08 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2003 11:06:03 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: (Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message Again, I ask a simple question. If the rings, on a properly broken in engine seal well enough to keep molecularly small exhaust gases from getting INTO the crankcase, at a pressure of approx. 100 p.s.i., how in the HELL does something molecularly larger (oil) make it through the same rings at a third of the pressure? How? Because the pressure of the oil against the rings as they are moving down the cylinder wall is many times greater than 100 psi. And because oil molecules tend to stick together in a thin film. That's one of the properties that makes oil a good lubricant. What will really blow your mind when you think of it is that oil can get past the rings on the power stroke, where the pressure in the cylinder is much greater than 100 psi. However, the pressure against the rings from the top is nowhere near as high as the pressure in the cylinder due to the tight clearance between the piston and the cylinder. If the rings had to face the full pressure of the combustion gasses in the cylinder (as the would if there was a lot of space between the piston and cylinder) they could never do their job of keeping combustion gasses out of the crankcase. As it is, they only have to seal against the small amount of gasses that make it between the piston and the cylinder. Steve Okay, here we go. You are now claiming that the pressure in the crankcase, at the time that a piston is moving down the cylinder, is "many times greater than 100 p.s.i.????? Are you just plain flipping NUTS? Let's say it's an eight cylinder motor, okay? Using YOUR analogy, then, with eight cylinders, there is almost always a cylinder moving "down". SO, just how many times 100 psi should my oil pressure gauge show? Should it be 500 psi? 600psi? Now, because it is essentially ONE vessel ie: the crankcase, there can not be a differential in pressure, so don't even try it. That would be akin to saying that the pressure is different in one side of an air compressor tank than it is in the other side. NOT. Somehow, I knew you wouldn't get it. Well, I know I shouldn't do this because proving you wrong has just gotten to be a dangerous exercise. But I'll leave you with a few thoughts: First, do you think your oil pressure gauge is reading the pressure of the oil against the rings as they are moving rapidly down the cylinder wall? or do you think it is reading the pressure at the oil pressure gauge sensor? Do you think the pressure the oil is under is constant everywhere in the engine? i.e., do you think it's under the same pressure when it's between the crankshaft and the rod with the rod pushing down on the crankshaft as it is dripping down from head back into the crankcase? And second, we'll take your hypothetical air compressor tank and attach a hose to the tank that's only, say, 0.05 inches ID and 100 feet long with the far end about 5% open to simulate the efficiency of a set of rings. Say there is 100 psi against the walls of the tank feeding the hose. How much pressure do you think there will be against the restrictor at the far end of that long, tiny hose? Remember, the tank and all the hose really is one big continuous vessel. Do you really think the pressure is constant against the walls everywhere in that vessel? Do you really think the 95% restrictor is seeing the same 100 psi against it at the end of 100 feet of 0.05" hose as it would be seeing if it were right at the outlet of the tank? I HOPE you say no. Hell, an even simpler case: You have 2 garden hoses, both 100 feet long and both with the same type of sprinkler head on each. One hose is 1" think and the other is 0.001" think. Turn on the valve and let the same water pressure into the hoses. Which one do you think will have more pressure at the sprinkler when you open the sprinkler? Or do you think both sprinklers will have the same pressure behind them? Now, there is the EXACT same amount of pressure of the gasses on the rings, in pounds per square inch, as there is on the top of the piston. VERY simple physics. Maybe TOO simple physics. Yes, definitely TOO simple physics. You're thinking in the static case when the situation we're talking about is dynamic. I realize that's probably too much of a stretch for you. Now that I've proven you wrong yet again, are you gonna come after me and hunt me down? Steve I said I would hunt you like the cur dog that you are, if you make statements about my daughter, understand? I said nothing about it being dangerous! ;) Now, yes, simple physics. Pressure is pressure. You are getting pressure confused with volume. Think of what you are implying here. It is the same as saying that the PISTONS are responsible for making crankcase pressure. Now, again, I'll use a very simple analogy. Let's Not at all. I don't care where the pressure came from. It could be pressure during the compression stroke. It could be pressure from the expanding gasses of combustion. And I'm not getting pressure confused with volume at all. take an air compressor, with tank. Let's say it's capable of 200psi. With me so far? Doubtful, but we'll continue. Now, does this mean that every time the piston pushes air INTO the tank that the air is @ 200psi? NO, the air is the same pressure as the tank pressure. Now, I Well, typically, no it's not at the same pressure. It would be if the piston was directly attached to the tank. But usually, the compressor and the tank are two separate "things" connected with a pipe or hose. The pressure inside the compressor during it's compression stroke is typically higher than the pressure in the tank. If not, then the air wouldn't flow from the compressor cylinder to the tank. know that your sitting there saying that's impossible. Here is where the volumetric change comes in. The pressure changes with the VOLUME of air being pushed in. That compresses it. Period. Same with a water Which is completely different than an engine during a power stroke. In that case, the pressure changes without the volume changing. The pressure change then causes the volume to change as it pushes the piston down the cylinder. You're simplemindedness is showing again. pipe. Pressure starts out at 60 psi, and if the pipe is level, comes out very close to starting pressure. The only reason that the pressure drops a tad is because of friction from the inside of the pipe, as well as, with the pipe not being completely smooth, laminer flow isn't possible, it becomes turbulent. Point is, again, in a vessel (this Ah! You're finally starting to understand why the pressure at the rings is less than the pressure in the cylinder. Friction, turbulent flow, etc. So you actually believe that there is smooth turbulent flow with no friction from the main part of the cylinder to the top of the rings when the rings are "protected" from the cylinder by the tiny gap between the piston and cylinder? Dream on. case, a crankcase) pressure is equal on all sides. Never mind the fact that the pressure on the sides of the crankcase is not equal everywhere due to turbulence and vortexes inside the crankcase. In this case, we're not talking about crankcase pressure at all. We're talking about the pressure of the oil against the underside of the rings as the rings are moving down the cylinder. Pressure on the walls of the crankcase has little to do with it because it's a tiny fraction of the total pressure the oil exerts against the rings. For instance, say there was no crankcase and that all you had was a cylinder open at both ends with a piston with rings in it. Now say also that the cylinder was coated with oil. If you pull the piston down the cylinder, the rings are going to try and push away that oil. The oil, being a viscous fluid that doesn't like being pushed away, is going to exert force, i.e., pressure against the moving rings without there being *any* crankcase pressure at all, since there is no crankcase to build pressure in. A force that is "many times" more than the 100 psi or so from the combustion chamber? Haahaaahaah!!!!! That's all you had to say? Your silence speaks volumes. BTW, which force are you laughing at? The pressure in the cylinder during combustion or the pressure of the oil against the underside of the rings as they are moving down the cylinder? They're both many times greater than 100 psi. Are you now saying that the pressure is GREATER because of Turbulence? Hmm, aviation engineers should try that. The work very hard to make the air flow over wings in a laminer flow to produce greater pressure. You should probably learn to read a little better. I said that the pressure against the top of the rings is less than the pressure in the cylinder. You've already stated that's impossible. But you were wrong yet again. Now you're finally starting to understand why you were wrong .... maybe. We'll see. Steve |
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