AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:35:59 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

in many states you can buy one privately
without any background check.

Make that every state. You are assuming "legally" but if someone
plans to go on a murder spree, would breaking one more law stop them?

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.

AR-15 rifles
 

wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.


And I do not see AR’s as cheap. Probably more than a Savage SA with wood
stock.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:22:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.

Would restricting their sale make the anti-gun crowd happier? Yes. It's not a matter of prevention,
it's a matter of perception.

AR-15 rifles
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.






I think the major problem to fixing the shootings is the focus on the tools
of the trade. We should focus on why we have so many shootings these
days. Both schools and gangbangers. Maybe overpopulation where even
rats go bonkers in overcrowded conditions. Maybe culture of welfare
pretty much outlawing nuclear family. Single mom is the MO. Look at the
shootings in states and regions with lots of gun regulations versus those
with a lot less. Regulations mean little to someone involved in the drug
trade, or planning on doing a school shooting. A sawed off double barrel
would be a lot more deadly than an AR. Takes little time to reload a
double barrel when you break it open and the shells pop out.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.

You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :)
Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets.

You're not going to stop these senseless killings until you somehow change society. The AR didn't create these monsters, it's just their tool of choice at the moment.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/2018 4:54 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.

You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :)
Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets.

You're not going to stop these senseless killings until you somehow change society. The AR didn't create these monsters, it's just their tool of choice at the moment.



Ok. How do we "change" society?

AR-15 rifles
 

Its Me
- show quoted text -
You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :)
Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets.
....

The last VP said to get a shotgun and to aim it in the air through an outside window and blast “both barrels�

That’ll fix em! 😋�

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:04:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 4:54 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.

You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :)
Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets.

You're not going to stop these senseless killings until you somehow change society. The AR didn't create these monsters, it's just their tool of choice at the moment.



Ok. How do we "change" society?


How did society change? Undo those changes. If the AR-15 has produced these deviants, then let's
stop selling them. Do you really believe that'll work? I don't, but if I were in charge, I'd stop
selling them just to appease those who think that would solve the problem.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:59:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.


The problem is you are thinking like someone looking backward and not
forward. If you are a troubled kid who wants to shoot up your school,
any gun will do. If there are no guns, you just start looking for
other weapons, perhaps even being worse.
You have been around industrial chemicals. Certainly it does not take
a lot of imagination or google searching to figure a way to cause
mayhem.
Chlorine gas, typically found in the back of a swimming pool service
truck, springs to mind.
(Yes commercial pool companies shock pools with gas)

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/18 3:59 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid
problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC
line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest
scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of
most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state
background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to
be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the
Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out
to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or
less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up
weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't
mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion,
but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing".Â* The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not.Â*Â* I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do.Â* Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh?Â* I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis.Â* I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon.Â* The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings.Â* No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.





It is the Libertarian philosophy...don't do anything.

AR-15 rifles
 

Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Why are the AR-15 style rifles the most popular weapon being sold in the
USA today?

.....

Because they “play the part�. Light and accurate.

Though I consider my Steyr AUG a superior weapon, nobody wants one of those Star Wars looking things. But the ease of disassembly and barrel interchange is attractive if you wanna be “tactical�. I like it...

But the AR is “Made in USA “ and the platform for a host of different cartridges. And they look way cool compared to an AK-47/74

Anyhow, back to the Steyr...

https://sofrep.com/68224/steyr-aug-m...odular-rifles/


I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 5:04:57 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 4:54 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left..


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.

You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :)
Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets.

You're not going to stop these senseless killings until you somehow change society. The AR didn't create these monsters, it's just their tool of choice at the moment.



Ok. How do we "change" society?

I don't know. If I did, I'd have more money than you. :)

One thing is for sure... people killing people has gone on forever. Cain killed Able with a rock. It's a question we won't be able to answer on a NG that used to be about boating. But the other thing that's for sure... If you remove every single AR-15 from the planet tonight, this stuff will continue. That will not fix it.. it's not even a speed bump in the way of someone that wants to do this stuff.

If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades. Is that what we/you want?

Or we could go after the actual perps... profile the people that do this stuff, be proactive in stopping them, start some "scared straight" programs in school that teach kids right from wrong (since the non-existent parents don't seem to), and maybe even nudge society back towards some conservative values. Having rap singers surrounded by half-clothed girls chanting lyrics like "Fu** cops, kill them all, death to America" doesn't seem to be working out that well, does it? But no, we can't profile kids that have repeatedly been in and out of trouble, has been in mental health treatments, and has even been reported to the FBI. Let's make sure we don't infringe on that asshole's life experience.

Our society is sick. Making AR's slightly harder to get doesn't seem to me to be an effective solution. What's your's?

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50:48 UTC-4, Alex wrote:
Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Why are the AR-15 style rifles the most popular weapon being sold in the
USA today?

.....

Because they “play the part�. Light and accurate.

Though I consider my Steyr AUG a superior weapon, nobody wants one of those Star Wars looking things. But the ease of disassembly and barrel interchange is attractive if you wanna be “tactical�. I like it....

But the AR is “Made in USA “ and the platform for a host of different cartridges. And they look way cool compared to an AK-47/74

Anyhow, back to the Steyr...

https://sofrep.com/68224/steyr-aug-m...odular-rifles/


I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/


Of course you do......

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

AR-15 rifles
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 3:59 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid
problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC
line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest
scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of
most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state
background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to
be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the
Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out
to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or
less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up
weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't
mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion,
but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing".Â* The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not.Â*Â* I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do.Â* Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh?Â* I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis.Â* I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon.Â* The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings.Â* No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.





It is the Libertarian philosophy...don't do anything.


It is the Liberal philosophy...do something, even if it makes no sense, or
will make the problem worse. As long as the government grows.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:44:05 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:22:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.

Would restricting their sale make the anti-gun crowd happier? Yes. It's not a matter of prevention,
it's a matter of perception.

How do you really restrict the sale of existing guns? If you simply
say they are not legally transferable, a lot of people would sell them
under the table. Most people are not going to just throw away several
hundred dollars for an AK/AR or well over a thousand for my M1A.
Actually there are AR platforms that are well over a thousand too.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:04:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Ok. How do we "change" society?

Good question.
How do we convince a kid who grew up entitled, told he was special and
then was suddenly faced with the reality that all of his participation
trophies are worthless, his education does not qualify him for a
decent job, the world doesn't owe him anything and his future is
bleak, that there is a good reason why he should not die in a hail of
bullets after showing the world he does have power.
The despair pretty much defines all of the terrorists and mass
shooters, snowflakes or not.
Bob Dylan summed it up "When you got nothin, you got nothin to lose"
Maybe we just convince them that they are braver if they just shoot
themselves in the head at home and leave us a note/video about how
many lives they just saved

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.


===

I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along
with relatively small size, high power and reliability.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:01:43 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

It is the Libertarian philosophy...don't do anything.

As opposed to the democrat philosophy, look like you are doing
something but be totally ineffective.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the
government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the
6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could
repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 9:07:08 PM UTC-5, True North wrote:
On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

It's obvious that most 'nadians can't be trusted with firearms. They've already been taken from you.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 10:43:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:44:05 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:22:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.

Would restricting their sale make the anti-gun crowd happier? Yes. It's not a matter of prevention,
it's a matter of perception.

How do you really restrict the sale of existing guns? If you simply
say they are not legally transferable, a lot of people would sell them
under the table. Most people are not going to just throw away several
hundred dollars for an AK/AR or well over a thousand for my M1A.
Actually there are AR platforms that are well over a thousand too.

A basic "starter kit" AR is $400-500. You have to assemble it (the lower). A good assembled AR is about $1000.

Building one is easy. Once you've done it, you can build a lower in ~20 minutes. The upper, if you have the couple of tools required, shouldn't take more than that.

AR-15 rifles
 

Alex
- show quoted text -
I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/
.....

Could be and I won’t dispute that. But there’s several bullpups that closely resemble each other. Mine is deffinately different. That’s why I got it. Though they’re a bit longer, I always wanted an enfield SA80 or L85 but they’re almost impossible to get especially for civilian use.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 20:44:53 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

A basic "starter kit" AR is $400-500. You have to assemble it (the lower). A good assembled AR is about $1000.

Building one is easy. Once you've done it, you can build a lower in ~20 minutes. The upper, if you have the couple of tools required, shouldn't take more than that.

Rural King will sell you a S&W M&P for $500 ready to go, no assembly
necessary. I even see them less on sale occasionally.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/18 10:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:04:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Ok. How do we "change" society?

Good question.
How do we convince a kid who grew up entitled, told he was special and
then was suddenly faced with the reality that all of his participation
trophies are worthless, his education does not qualify him for a
decent job, the world doesn't owe him anything and his future is
bleak, that there is a good reason why he should not die in a hail of
bullets after showing the world he does have power.


Take him to a Libertarian pep rally.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/18 9:01 PM, True North wrote:
On Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50:48 UTC-4, Alex wrote:
Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Why are the AR-15 style rifles the most popular weapon being sold in the
USA today?

.....

Because they “play the part�. Light and accurate.

Though I consider my Steyr AUG a superior weapon, nobody wants one of those Star Wars looking things. But the ease of disassembly and barrel interchange is attractive if you wanna be “tactical�. I like it...

But the AR is “Made in USA “ and the platform for a host of different cartridges. And they look way cool compared to an AK-47/74

Anyhow, back to the Steyr...

https://sofrep.com/68224/steyr-aug-m...odular-rifles/


I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/


Of course you do......


Just wait until Little Alex gets his mitts on one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0MytMHwzAM

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:42:57 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:44:05 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:22:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.

Would restricting their sale make the anti-gun crowd happier? Yes. It's not a matter of prevention,
it's a matter of perception.

How do you really restrict the sale of existing guns? If you simply
say they are not legally transferable, a lot of people would sell them
under the table. Most people are not going to just throw away several
hundred dollars for an AK/AR or well over a thousand for my M1A.
Actually there are AR platforms that are well over a thousand too.

You missed the point. It's a matter of perception, not prevention. By outlawing the sale of the guns
by licensed dealers you've addressed the question and pleased those who are pushing for same. There
is a perception amongst the crowd doing the pushing that 'something has been done'. Effective? No.

Licensed dealers would turn in the guns to the government and be reimbursed for their cost. If they
tried to sell under the table, they'd likely be caught. Other folks, like Harry with his 'assault
rifle' wouldn't be touched...yet.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:59:44 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.


===

I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along
with relatively small size, high power and reliability.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

I'd have no problem with outlawing them also. Again, I don't think it would be effective, but it
would be 'perceived' as taking action.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/2018 11:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the
government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the
6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could
repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems.



Apparently states can as evidenced by the recent (Feb 1st) ban of bump
stocks and trigger cranks in Massachusetts and the requirement within 90
days to turn over any existing bump stocks/trigger cranks to local or
state police to be destroyed. No compensation and criminal prosecution
including a $10,000 fine and/or subject to incarceration if caught with
either or both after the 90 day period.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:01:01 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50:48 UTC-4, Alex wrote:
Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Why are the AR-15 style rifles the most popular weapon being sold in the
USA today?

.....

Because they “play the part”. Light and accurate.

Though I consider my Steyr AUG a superior weapon, nobody wants one of those Star Wars looking things. But the ease of disassembly and barrel interchange is attractive if you wanna be “tactical”. I like it...

But the AR is “Made in USA “ and the platform for a host of different cartridges. And they look way cool compared to an AK-47/74

Anyhow, back to the Steyr...

https://sofrep.com/68224/steyr-aug-m...odular-rifles/


I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/


Of course you do......

Of course he does. It's part of a great collection of firearms. You guys aren't allowed to do that,
remember? It's part of the way the 'anadian government restrains its citizens.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/23/2018 8:01 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:59:44 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.


===

I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along
with relatively small size, high power and reliability.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

I'd have no problem with outlawing them also. Again, I don't think it would be effective, but it
would be 'perceived' as taking action.



More than a ineffective perception, it might be the start of an
awareness that not all guns are suitable or designed for civilian
recreational use. It could be the beginning of a more rational attitude
about firearms without risking 2nd Amendment "rights". I know this
offends many here but I can't think of a legitimate use of a AK-15 style
rifle by recreational shooters other than they are "COOL" to have and
the government, in the interest of the rest of the population, can't do
a damn thing about having one ... or two... or three.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:12:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the
government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the
6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could
repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems.



Apparently states can as evidenced by the recent (Feb 1st) ban of bump
stocks and trigger cranks in Massachusetts and the requirement within 90
days to turn over any existing bump stocks/trigger cranks to local or
state police to be destroyed. No compensation and criminal prosecution
including a $10,000 fine and/or subject to incarceration if caught with
either or both after the 90 day period.



Did you get one of these:
http://blog.goal.org/wp-content/uplo...-LICENSEES.pdf

The wording wouldn't require much changing to just require that you turn in your firearms. Perhaps
that's one of the reasons the NRA is against the registration and/or licensing of firearms.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/23/2018 8:31 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:12:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the
government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the
6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could
repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems.



Apparently states can as evidenced by the recent (Feb 1st) ban of bump
stocks and trigger cranks in Massachusetts and the requirement within 90
days to turn over any existing bump stocks/trigger cranks to local or
state police to be destroyed. No compensation and criminal prosecution
including a $10,000 fine and/or subject to incarceration if caught with
either or both after the 90 day period.



Did you get one of these:
http://blog.goal.org/wp-content/uplo...-LICENSEES.pdf

The wording wouldn't require much changing to just require that you turn in your firearms. Perhaps
that's one of the reasons the NRA is against the registration and/or licensing of firearms.


Yup, received that letter last month. I think the legal thing is that
bump stocks and trigger cranks are *not* considered firearms. They are
accessories, much like a magazine of over 10 round capacity which are
also banned.

You cannot legally obtain a gun permit of any type or legally purchase
or sell a firearm in Massachusetts without the transaction being
registered with the state. Don't know if these MA laws have ever been
challenged but they have been in force for longer than I've owned guns.

Even private sales must be reported (you can do it on-line) to be within
the law. It sorta goes back to that "chain of custody" discussion we've
had in the past. If I sell a firearm privately (which I have done)
it's in my best interests to report it as the law requires. If I don't
and that firearm is ever used in a crime and is discovered, I would be
the last registered owner and the cops would be banging on my door.

AR-15 rifles
 

On 2/22/2018 8:58 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 5:04:57 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 4:54 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.



So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from
being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to
it, right?

I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The
only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these
mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used.

You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :)
Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets.

You're not going to stop these senseless killings until you somehow change society. The AR didn't create these monsters, it's just their tool of choice at the moment.



Ok. How do we "change" society?

I don't know. If I did, I'd have more money than you. :)

One thing is for sure... people killing people has gone on forever. Cain killed Able with a rock. It's a question we won't be able to answer on a NG that used to be about boating. But the other thing that's for sure... If you remove every single AR-15 from the planet tonight, this stuff will continue. That will not fix it.. it's not even a speed bump in the way of someone that wants to do this stuff.

If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades. Is that what we/you want?

Or we could go after the actual perps... profile the people that do this stuff, be proactive in stopping them, start some "scared straight" programs in school that teach kids right from wrong (since the non-existent parents don't seem to), and maybe even nudge society back towards some conservative values. Having rap singers surrounded by half-clothed girls chanting lyrics like "Fu** cops, kill them all, death to America" doesn't seem to be working out that well, does it? But no, we can't profile kids that have repeatedly been in and out of trouble, has been in mental health treatments, and has even been reported to the FBI. Let's make sure we don't infringe on that asshole's life experience.

Our society is sick. Making AR's slightly harder to get doesn't seem to me to be an effective solution. What's your's?



I've offered mine ... although most here, including you, don't think
much of it. I understand that. It's a tough problem to address with
so many diverse opinions. I think it is good though that a civil
discussion can be had (by most) without name calling, insults and snarky
comments. That's how difficult issues are resolved.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 12:42:43 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 20:44:53 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

A basic "starter kit" AR is $400-500. You have to assemble it (the lower). A good assembled AR is about $1000.

Building one is easy. Once you've done it, you can build a lower in ~20 minutes. The upper, if you have the couple of tools required, shouldn't take more than that.

Rural King will sell you a S&W M&P for $500 ready to go, no assembly
necessary. I even see them less on sale occasionally.

The M&P Sport model is their least expensive and it retails for $739, with a street price of $600+. Rural King seems to be selling them for less than anyone else I've seen.

AR-15 rifles
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:28:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:01 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:59:44 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.


===

I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along
with relatively small size, high power and reliability.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

I'd have no problem with outlawing them also. Again, I don't think it would be effective, but it
would be 'perceived' as taking action.



More than a ineffective perception, it might be the start of an
awareness that not all guns are suitable or designed for civilian
recreational use. It could be the beginning of a more rational attitude
about firearms without risking 2nd Amendment "rights". I know this
offends many here but I can't think of a legitimate use of a AK-15 style
rifle by recreational shooters other than they are "COOL" to have and
the government, in the interest of the rest of the population, can't do
a damn thing about having one ... or two... or three.



That's fine. I'd go along with it. Who's offended? I just don't think it would be very effective.

As long as they exist, the deviant Rambo wannabees will find a way to do their thing. Look how
famous they become.