Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/26/2018 11:42 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:40:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/26/2018 5:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point.Â* Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise.Â*Â* Join the navy reserves while in high school.Â*Â* When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty.Â*Â* Then discharged.Â* At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.



I did just short of 9 years active and was supposed to be discharged in
April.Â* Started my short-timer's calendar and also sending out resumes
for jobs.Â* Then, a few weeks before D-day, I was informed that my
enlistment had been extended for an additional 2 months.Â* I went a
little bonkers because my understanding had been that after 8 years of
active duty, your required eligibility for military service was
complete.Â* Anyway, I lost the argument but the CO of the command (this
was in Annapolis, MD) who was also a short-timer told me I could go home
for the last few weeks and just call in every morning for muster.Â* I was
processed for discharge and my discharge papers would be mailed to me.
He also said he'd try to find out what the extension was all about
because itÂ* wasn't like I held a critical billet at the command and they
didn't need my replacement.Â* The Navy was beginning to decommission the
commandÂ* and were already mothballing equipment.

The CO found out that (unknown to me) I had been selected to attend a 5
week prep schoolÂ* called "Officer Development School (ODS)" which would
then lead to a direct commission to Warrant as an LDO (limited duty
officer).Â* LDO's are not flag officers and can never be a CO of a ship
or anything.Â* They usually serve in at commands that require their
educational and technical specialties.

Anyway, I didn't opt for it.Â* The extension was to allow time for the
orders and the school schedule.Â* Only problem was they neglected to tell
me about it in the paperwork shuffle.Â* My only guess is that the Navy
had invested a lot of schools in me during my enlistment plus I had been
taking courses at local colleges and on-line and was not that far from
meeting a degree requirement.

My DD-214 includes the following statement:Â* "Member's service extended
by two months.Â* Extension was at the request and for the convenience of
the government".


I should correct something. I didn't do "on-line" courses. I did
traditional correspondents courses on the ships when we were deployed.
On-line courses didn't exist back then. :-)

Also, (and unknown to me at the time) I had been advanced in rank to
E-6 however the advancement notices had not been published. E-6 and
above was a per-requisite for the LDO program and the 2 month extension
allowed it to become official. I wouldn't have done it anyway. Why
would a more senior enlisted want to start all over again as a very
junior officer? No thanks. Besides, I had pretty much had enough of
the Navy by that time.

I was supposed to be fast tracked in the CG and it was not uncommon
for guys to be E-6 (FT1) in 4 years with the CPO as the incentive to
ship over. Unfortunately me taking the GM 3&2 course and pushing that
instead of the FT3 that was pretty much automatic after "A" school,
derailed that path. When I got to my reserve unit I was in an ORTAUG
and back to being a Gunner's Mate until they finally found me 3 years
later. They gave me my FT3 crow and shipped me off to the ORTEL
(electronics unit). I couldn't wait to get out after that.



I don't know of anyone who was "fast tracked" in the Navy. Some were
given E-3 straight out of boot camp if they had a college degree. I
also never heard of anyone getting advanced as an incentive for
re-enlisting. Money, yes, as a re-enlistment bonus for critical
(needed) rates but no advancement in rank. To be advanced you had to
have completed the qualifications, done the courses, get the sign-offs
and recommendations, have the required time in your current rank, take
the test and wait and see if you made it.

Often the Navy had several "increments" of advancements. If you scored
high enough on the test combined with time in rank, you might make it on
the "first" increment, meaning sooner than others. Some may be advanced
but would have to wait until the second or third increment. I remember
that some delayed advancements permitted you to sew the new "crow" on
your uniforms and take on responsibilities for the new rank but you had
to wait until the official date according to what increment you were
advanced under to receive the additional pay.






The Air Force sucked for getting rank if you changed specialties. They
disbanded the mobile comm squadron I was first in and sent to the IT
section as I worked on computers, as a clerk. Then changed to fixing
airborne radar units. Each a different AFSC. So was hard to get the two
years experience two get the promotion in rank. Was an AF problem

On 2/26/2018 5:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/26/2018 11:42 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:40:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/26/2018 5:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point.Â* Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise.Â*Â* Join the navy reserves while in high school.Â*Â* When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty.Â*Â* Then discharged.Â* At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.



I did just short of 9 years active and was supposed to be discharged in
April.Â* Started my short-timer's calendar and also sending out resumes
for jobs.Â* Then, a few weeks before D-day, I was informed that my
enlistment had been extended for an additional 2 months.Â* I went a
little bonkers because my understanding had been that after 8 years of
active duty, your required eligibility for military service was
complete.Â* Anyway, I lost the argument but the CO of the command (this
was in Annapolis, MD) who was also a short-timer told me I could go home
for the last few weeks and just call in every morning for muster.Â* I was
processed for discharge and my discharge papers would be mailed to me.
He also said he'd try to find out what the extension was all about
because itÂ* wasn't like I held a critical billet at the command and they
didn't need my replacement.Â* The Navy was beginning to decommission the
commandÂ* and were already mothballing equipment.

The CO found out that (unknown to me) I had been selected to attend a 5
week prep schoolÂ* called "Officer Development School (ODS)" which would
then lead to a direct commission to Warrant as an LDO (limited duty
officer).Â* LDO's are not flag officers and can never be a CO of a ship
or anything.Â* They usually serve in at commands that require their
educational and technical specialties.

Anyway, I didn't opt for it.Â* The extension was to allow time for the
orders and the school schedule.Â* Only problem was they neglected to tell
me about it in the paperwork shuffle.Â* My only guess is that the Navy
had invested a lot of schools in me during my enlistment plus I had been
taking courses at local colleges and on-line and was not that far from
meeting a degree requirement.

My DD-214 includes the following statement:Â* "Member's service extended
by two months.Â* Extension was at the request and for the convenience of
the government".


I should correct something. I didn't do "on-line" courses. I did
traditional correspondents courses on the ships when we were deployed.
On-line courses didn't exist back then. :-)

Also, (and unknown to me at the time) I had been advanced in rank to
E-6 however the advancement notices had not been published. E-6 and
above was a per-requisite for the LDO program and the 2 month extension
allowed it to become official. I wouldn't have done it anyway. Why
would a more senior enlisted want to start all over again as a very
junior officer? No thanks. Besides, I had pretty much had enough of
the Navy by that time.

I was supposed to be fast tracked in the CG and it was not uncommon
for guys to be E-6 (FT1) in 4 years with the CPO as the incentive to
ship over. Unfortunately me taking the GM 3&2 course and pushing that
instead of the FT3 that was pretty much automatic after "A" school,
derailed that path. When I got to my reserve unit I was in an ORTAUG
and back to being a Gunner's Mate until they finally found me 3 years
later. They gave me my FT3 crow and shipped me off to the ORTEL
(electronics unit). I couldn't wait to get out after that.



I don't know of anyone who was "fast tracked" in the Navy. Some were
given E-3 straight out of boot camp if they had a college degree. I
also never heard of anyone getting advanced as an incentive for
re-enlisting. Money, yes, as a re-enlistment bonus for critical
(needed) rates but no advancement in rank. To be advanced you had to
have completed the qualifications, done the courses, get the sign-offs
and recommendations, have the required time in your current rank, take
the test and wait and see if you made it.

Often the Navy had several "increments" of advancements. If you scored
high enough on the test combined with time in rank, you might make it on
the "first" increment, meaning sooner than others. Some may be advanced
but would have to wait until the second or third increment. I remember
that some delayed advancements permitted you to sew the new "crow" on
your uniforms and take on responsibilities for the new rank but you had
to wait until the official date according to what increment you were
advanced under to receive the additional pay.






The Air Force sucked for getting rank if you changed specialties. They
disbanded the mobile comm squadron I was first in and sent to the IT
section as I worked on computers, as a clerk. Then changed to fixing
airborne radar units. Each a different AFSC. So was hard to get the two
years experience two get the promotion in rank. Was an AF problem



When I converted from RM (Radioman) to ET (Electronics Tech) it required
a six year extension of my enlistment contract. I was an E-4 and had
been in the Navy for 2 years and seven months. I was technically
"discharged" (while underway on the ship) and immediately sworn back in
for another 6 years. That's how when you include the 2 month extension
"at the request and convenience of the government" at the end of the 6
year gig, I ended up with 8 years and 9 months of active duty.

One thing I haven't mentioned. The Navy needed ETs but they didn't
advance anyone in rank as an incentive. But, I did receive a $10,000
bonus which was big money for a jr. enlisted guy back in 1971.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/26/2018 5:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/26/2018 11:42 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:40:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/26/2018 5:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point.Â* Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise.Â*Â* Join the navy reserves while in high school.Â*Â* When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty.Â*Â* Then discharged.Â* At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.



I did just short of 9 years active and was supposed to be discharged in
April.Â* Started my short-timer's calendar and also sending out resumes
for jobs.Â* Then, a few weeks before D-day, I was informed that my
enlistment had been extended for an additional 2 months.Â* I went a
little bonkers because my understanding had been that after 8 years of
active duty, your required eligibility for military service was
complete.Â* Anyway, I lost the argument but the CO of the command (this
was in Annapolis, MD) who was also a short-timer told me I could go home
for the last few weeks and just call in every morning for muster.Â* I was
processed for discharge and my discharge papers would be mailed to me.
He also said he'd try to find out what the extension was all about
because itÂ* wasn't like I held a critical billet at the command and they
didn't need my replacement.Â* The Navy was beginning to decommission the
commandÂ* and were already mothballing equipment.

The CO found out that (unknown to me) I had been selected to attend a 5
week prep schoolÂ* called "Officer Development School (ODS)" which would
then lead to a direct commission to Warrant as an LDO (limited duty
officer).Â* LDO's are not flag officers and can never be a CO of a ship
or anything.Â* They usually serve in at commands that require their
educational and technical specialties.

Anyway, I didn't opt for it.Â* The extension was to allow time for the
orders and the school schedule.Â* Only problem was they neglected to tell
me about it in the paperwork shuffle.Â* My only guess is that the Navy
had invested a lot of schools in me during my enlistment plus I had been
taking courses at local colleges and on-line and was not that far from
meeting a degree requirement.

My DD-214 includes the following statement:Â* "Member's service extended
by two months.Â* Extension was at the request and for the convenience of
the government".


I should correct something. I didn't do "on-line" courses. I did
traditional correspondents courses on the ships when we were deployed.
On-line courses didn't exist back then. :-)

Also, (and unknown to me at the time) I had been advanced in rank to
E-6 however the advancement notices had not been published. E-6 and
above was a per-requisite for the LDO program and the 2 month extension
allowed it to become official. I wouldn't have done it anyway. Why
would a more senior enlisted want to start all over again as a very
junior officer? No thanks. Besides, I had pretty much had enough of
the Navy by that time.

I was supposed to be fast tracked in the CG and it was not uncommon
for guys to be E-6 (FT1) in 4 years with the CPO as the incentive to
ship over. Unfortunately me taking the GM 3&2 course and pushing that
instead of the FT3 that was pretty much automatic after "A" school,
derailed that path. When I got to my reserve unit I was in an ORTAUG
and back to being a Gunner's Mate until they finally found me 3 years
later. They gave me my FT3 crow and shipped me off to the ORTEL
(electronics unit). I couldn't wait to get out after that.



I don't know of anyone who was "fast tracked" in the Navy. Some were
given E-3 straight out of boot camp if they had a college degree. I
also never heard of anyone getting advanced as an incentive for
re-enlisting. Money, yes, as a re-enlistment bonus for critical
(needed) rates but no advancement in rank. To be advanced you had to
have completed the qualifications, done the courses, get the sign-offs
and recommendations, have the required time in your current rank, take
the test and wait and see if you made it.

Often the Navy had several "increments" of advancements. If you scored
high enough on the test combined with time in rank, you might make it on
the "first" increment, meaning sooner than others. Some may be advanced
but would have to wait until the second or third increment. I remember
that some delayed advancements permitted you to sew the new "crow" on
your uniforms and take on responsibilities for the new rank but you had
to wait until the official date according to what increment you were
advanced under to receive the additional pay.






The Air Force sucked for getting rank if you changed specialties. They
disbanded the mobile comm squadron I was first in and sent to the IT
section as I worked on computers, as a clerk. Then changed to fixing
airborne radar units. Each a different AFSC. So was hard to get the two
years experience two get the promotion in rank. Was an AF problem



When I converted from RM (Radioman) to ET (Electronics Tech) it required
a six year extension of my enlistment contract. I was an E-4 and had
been in the Navy for 2 years and seven months. I was technically
"discharged" (while underway on the ship) and immediately sworn back in
for another 6 years. That's how when you include the 2 month extension
"at the request and convenience of the government" at the end of the 6
year gig, I ended up with 8 years and 9 months of active duty.

One thing I haven't mentioned. The Navy needed ETs but they didn't
advance anyone in rank as an incentive. But, I did receive a $10,000
bonus which was big money for a jr. enlisted guy back in 1971.




I had a draft notice Christmas 1964. Mailed to wrong address. Mom
remarried and moved, I was extended for more classes at NCR school. So,
tried the AF reserves and lucked out for a slot. I went in as an
electronics guy. School was ground Navigation Aids. ILS, tacan, loran,
etc.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


The Air Force sucked for getting rank if you changed specialties. They
disbanded the mobile comm squadron I was first in and sent to the IT
section as I worked on computers, as a clerk. Then changed to fixing
airborne radar units. Each a different AFSC. So was hard to get the two
years experience two get the promotion in rank. Was an AF problem

Every AF guy I knew complained about how slow enlisted rank came, yet
they had teenaged colonels.

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


The Air Force sucked for getting rank if you changed specialties. They
disbanded the mobile comm squadron I was first in and sent to the IT
section as I worked on computers, as a clerk. Then changed to fixing
airborne radar units. Each a different AFSC. So was hard to get the two
years experience two get the promotion in rank. Was an AF problem

Every AF guy I knew complained about how slow enlisted rank came, yet
they had teenaged colonels.


Probably good golfers. First thing built at any Air Force base was a golf
course I think.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 04:31:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


The Air Force sucked for getting rank if you changed specialties. They
disbanded the mobile comm squadron I was first in and sent to the IT
section as I worked on computers, as a clerk. Then changed to fixing
airborne radar units. Each a different AFSC. So was hard to get the two
years experience two get the promotion in rank. Was an AF problem

Every AF guy I knew complained about how slow enlisted rank came, yet
they had teenaged colonels.


Probably good golfers. First thing built at any Air Force base was a golf
course I think.

I know Andrews had a great golf course and a nice trap/skeet range. It
was the first place I ever shot skeet. One of my hunting buddies was
an AF guy. I ended up shooting there so often, the regulars thought I
must be an air force guy too. I was never questioned at all. It was
free. (bring your own ammo tho)
In those days they waived everyone through the gate.