On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:40:51 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:


That was my general emergency plan. A small space heater and if needed something to keep the sump pump working.

It seems ironic to use a generator to make electric heat when you are
usually throwing away more heat from the engine than the generator can
produce. That is why I was thinking about scavenging some of that
waste heat to heat water. If you had a bigger, water cooled gen set
that would be trivial to do.

On 1/6/2018 4:33 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:09:52 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/6/2018 1:11 PM, True North wrote:
On Saturday, 6 January 2018 11:42:35 UTC-4, justan wrote:
True North Wrote in message:
Now I'm ready to move on one of those Honda 2000 generators. Contacted both local dealerships and all 1000 and 2000 model generators were sold before I got there. D'oh.

Shipments on way from Montreal. These models are costly here...a hair over 1K for the smaller unit and just over 1.3K for the 2000 plus HST and a PDI and freight charge of $75.00. Outrageous...first that crap started with cars and then new boats. Now on generators??

By the way it was just below 45 degrees F inside our house this morning.
No country for girliemen Jack Goff.


Bundle up real good. Have you put a deposit on a genset yet?
Better yet prepay for one and go to the head of the line. How is
your house heated? Please don't say elec. Have you protected your
pipes from freezing? How about your heating system? Watch out for
spoiled food in your freezer and fridge. Hopefully you are
keeping your dog warm.
Good luck, buddy.
--
x


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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Oops..meant to say we were back on power when I sent that message. Just work up from a snooze on the reclining chair...all this heat is getting to me.
We actually lost power early in the storm at 1505hrs on Thursday afternoon. Power company arrived quick enough..but only to secure the wire knocked down by a large tree branch a few hundred feet up the street. It took a full 24 hours for the city crew to show up to cut the big hanging tree limb down and then 3 power company trucks show up at 0720hrs this morning. Took them about 4 hours to fix whatever had to be fixed in very cold windy weather. I'm still waiting to see how our tropical fish fare. Spring Spaniel great but we put ont one of his jackets this morning. It was getting real cold inside and out. We do have electric baseboard heating. Thought it was a good clean, relatively cheap conversion from the former oil furnace (converted from coal in 1959) that only send warm air upwards through a floor grate in our entrance hallway. House built during WW2 and guy who owned it was tight with a dollar.
Anyway, all is good now but after losing power to a fallen limb and then Hurricane Juan back in 2003 and then this weeks storm, if may be time to prepare better....especially since winds keep getting stronger. (there's your Global Warming at work).
As far as the generator, I want something that is easilt transported. The ones left at the dealership were big and expensive..and heavy. One 2800w model roughly the same price as the 2000I weighed almost twice as much. Can't rely on the wife to carry her end on something like that anymore.



I've never used one of these but it might be worth looking into:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraHeat-23-800-BTU-Indoor-Kerosene-Portable-Heater-DH2304/100045793?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-204700349-_-100045793-_-N

I have one but not exactly like that.
We have not used it for over 25 years tho.
I would have to dig through my pictures but it was a christmas many
years ago when we had the power out and sub 40s temps.
I did get a kick out of the "economical kerosene" line.
I guess maybe if you can still find a K1 pump somewhere it might be
$3-4 a gallon but if you are buying it in a gallon jug at the Home
Depot it is $11 a gallon.



This looks like an updated, modern version of ones I've seen in the
past. No electrical power required. Ignition is via a battery. But,
I've never had or used one so I don't know the pros or cons.

I know this may be hard for you to understand but when you have no heat
and it's in the single digits outside, the cost of kerosene isn't the
driver. BTW, this rig runs on just about anything ... kerosene, home
heating oil, jet fuel ... etc.

On 1/6/2018 4:38 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:40:51 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:


That was my general emergency plan. A small space heater and if needed something to keep the sump pump working.

It seems ironic to use a generator to make electric heat when you are
usually throwing away more heat from the engine than the generator can
produce. That is why I was thinking about scavenging some of that
waste heat to heat water. If you had a bigger, water cooled gen set
that would be trivial to do.



Maybe but conservation of energy isn't exactly the primary concern when
you only have to use a back up system once every five or six years or so
and only for a few days.

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 12:41:18 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 1:39:34 PM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/6/2018 2:16 PM, Tim wrote:
Keyser Soze
- hide quoted text -
On 1/6/18 10:13 AM, True North wrote:
Now I'm ready to move on one of those Honda 2000 generators. Contacted both local dealerships and all 1000 and 2000 model generators were sold before I got there. D'oh.

Shipments on way from Montreal. These models are costly here...a hair over 1K for the smaller unit and just over 1.3K for the 2000 plus HST and a PDI and freight charge of $75.00. Outrageous...first that crap started with cars and then new boats. Now on generators??

By the way it was just below 45 degrees F inside our house this morning.
No country for girliemen Jack Goff.



Grim...

....

Very “grim� indeed. 2000w. won’t get you much 4500 will run a deep freezer and 2 refrigerators and struggle at that.
To do a comfortable job a person needs at least 6-8000

It takes a lot of energy to run a simple house...



My little 2000w Honda ran two, full sized refrigerators, a couple of
lights and a flat panel TV with no problem. I left it on the "eco" mode
(idle) and the only time it automatically reves up is when one of the
refrig compressors started. It would then drop back to idle. It has
never tripped.

During the last longer term outage a few years ago I'd wire it into the
furnace circuit for a while to heat the house. Then, I'd switch it back
to the refrigerators. Worked out good and burned less than 5 gals of
gas over a 4 day period with the generator running 24 hours.

The idle speed can still produces about 6 amps continuously. After the
initial current draw to start the compressor in a refrig, the draw drops
to under 2 amps typically. That's what is so nice about the inverter
type generators. They don't have to run at full speed to generate 120
volts at 60Hz and the fuel consumption is very low compared to the
contractor type generators that always run at 3600 rpm.

Chances are, your appliances were much more eco-friendly than my dads 30+ year old stuff. and that was 15 years ago.

First I let the little 4000w Briggs warm up then plugged in a refrigerator and let it run till it stabilized. Then plug in another. It worked hard at it but it did recover. Last was the little freezer. The little Briggs labored hard. I knew it'd stall but it didn't. It did carry all three, but I don't see how. The initial start up
of the appliances was the hardest. Once all going. everything was ok

Mt 5.5kw Briggs was running 2 fridges all the time, a pool pump 6
hours a day and 2 well pumps plus my general lighting loads.
Occasionally the LRA of too many things starting at once tripped it
out but for the most part it ran fine. The only mitigation I really
want to do is swap breakers around to get the fridges on different
phases. They are on the same one now.
I also have thought about interlocking the 2 pumps so they can't start
at the same time but I have not done it yet. I do have the wiring in
place tho.
I have already put loops in the generator J box so I can monitor the
current in real time with a clamp.
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Gene...connection.jpg

Wrote in message:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:40:51 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:


That was my general emergency plan. A small space heater and if needed something to keep the sump pump working.

It seems ironic to use a generator to make electric heat when you are
usually throwing away more heat from the engine than the generator can
produce. That is why I was thinking about scavenging some of that
waste heat to heat water. If you had a bigger, water cooled gen set
that would be trivial to do.


Two of our houses had hot water heat by oil. I inserted a " Magic
Heat in the flues and they heated the basements quite nicely.

--
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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 16:40:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/6/2018 4:33 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:09:52 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/6/2018 1:11 PM, True North wrote:
On Saturday, 6 January 2018 11:42:35 UTC-4, justan wrote:
True North Wrote in message:
Now I'm ready to move on one of those Honda 2000 generators. Contacted both local dealerships and all 1000 and 2000 model generators were sold before I got there. D'oh.

Shipments on way from Montreal. These models are costly here...a hair over 1K for the smaller unit and just over 1.3K for the 2000 plus HST and a PDI and freight charge of $75.00. Outrageous...first that crap started with cars and then new boats. Now on generators??

By the way it was just below 45 degrees F inside our house this morning.
No country for girliemen Jack Goff.


Bundle up real good. Have you put a deposit on a genset yet?
Better yet prepay for one and go to the head of the line. How is
your house heated? Please don't say elec. Have you protected your
pipes from freezing? How about your heating system? Watch out for
spoiled food in your freezer and fridge. Hopefully you are
keeping your dog warm.
Good luck, buddy.
--
x


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Oops..meant to say we were back on power when I sent that message. Just work up from a snooze on the reclining chair...all this heat is getting to me.
We actually lost power early in the storm at 1505hrs on Thursday afternoon. Power company arrived quick enough..but only to secure the wire knocked down by a large tree branch a few hundred feet up the street. It took a full 24 hours for the city crew to show up to cut the big hanging tree limb down and then 3 power company trucks show up at 0720hrs this morning. Took them about 4 hours to fix whatever had to be fixed in very cold windy weather. I'm still waiting to see how our tropical fish fare. Spring Spaniel great but we put ont one of his jackets this morning. It was getting real cold inside and out. We do have electric baseboard heating. Thought it was a good clean, relatively cheap conversion from the former oil furnace (converted from coal in 1959) that only send warm air upwards through a floor grate in our entrance hallway. House built during WW2 and guy who owned it was tight with a dollar.
Anyway, all is good now but after losing power to a fallen limb and then Hurricane Juan back in 2003 and then this weeks storm, if may be time to prepare better....especially since winds keep getting stronger. (there's your Global Warming at work).
As far as the generator, I want something that is easilt transported. The ones left at the dealership were big and expensive..and heavy. One 2800w model roughly the same price as the 2000I weighed almost twice as much. Can't rely on the wife to carry her end on something like that anymore.



I've never used one of these but it might be worth looking into:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraHeat-23-800-BTU-Indoor-Kerosene-Portable-Heater-DH2304/100045793?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-204700349-_-100045793-_-N

I have one but not exactly like that.
We have not used it for over 25 years tho.
I would have to dig through my pictures but it was a christmas many
years ago when we had the power out and sub 40s temps.
I did get a kick out of the "economical kerosene" line.
I guess maybe if you can still find a K1 pump somewhere it might be
$3-4 a gallon but if you are buying it in a gallon jug at the Home
Depot it is $11 a gallon.



This looks like an updated, modern version of ones I've seen in the
past. No electrical power required. Ignition is via a battery. But,
I've never had or used one so I don't know the pros or cons.

I know this may be hard for you to understand but when you have no heat
and it's in the single digits outside, the cost of kerosene isn't the
driver. BTW, this rig runs on just about anything ... kerosene, home
heating oil, jet fuel ... etc.



It is true that if it burns, these things can use it but the smell
becomes an issue because they are not really vented anywhere.
I got this from my grandfather who used it in his "cabana", an
aluminum and glass sun room back in the olden days. Even as leaky as
that was, he said diesel was too stinky to use. K1 kerosene or paint
thinner/mineral spirits would be my go to fuel but they are all silly
expensive these days. I did see Rural king will sell you 2.5 gallons
for $17. That is not horrible if you are freezing but still about
twice as much as using toaster wire heat, which brings me back to the
line in the ad about "economical" kerosene.
I am not even sure where I would find a place with a kerosene pump.
The last time I bought some it was 40 miles from here in Punta Gorda.
(25 years ago) I was there anyway so it was not a big deal but I did
drive around with the can in my car for days before I found one.
There s a bulk plant in Ft Myers but I am not sure if they would
really be interested in only selling a couple gallons.

This is like the one I have
https://tinyurl.com/yadk287b

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 16:44:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/6/2018 4:38 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:40:51 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:


That was my general emergency plan. A small space heater and if needed something to keep the sump pump working.

It seems ironic to use a generator to make electric heat when you are
usually throwing away more heat from the engine than the generator can
produce. That is why I was thinking about scavenging some of that
waste heat to heat water. If you had a bigger, water cooled gen set
that would be trivial to do.



Maybe but conservation of energy isn't exactly the primary concern when
you only have to use a back up system once every five or six years or so
and only for a few days.


In my case it was that my generator would not even run the water
heater with everything else off. It was just frustrating that I was
wasting all of this heat when I had the perfect place to use it.
If I ever have to do this again I think I would wire my elements in
series and let it just loaf along at ~1.1 KW until the tank was hot.
I am still not sure why it would not work wired normally. It is only
supposed to be 4.3KW. I must have still had something going.

On Sat, 06 Jan 2018 17:54:53 -0500, wrote:

I have already put loops in the generator J box so I can monitor the
current in real time with a clamp.
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Gene...connection.jpg

===

Heh, good idea.

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On 1/6/18 4:38 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:40:51 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:


That was my general emergency plan. A small space heater and if needed something to keep the sump pump working.

It seems ironic to use a generator to make electric heat when you are
usually throwing away more heat from the engine than the generator can
produce. That is why I was thinking about scavenging some of that
waste heat to heat water. If you had a bigger, water cooled gen set
that would be trivial to do.

Sheesh...do you overanalyze everything in life? If the power goes out
and we still have electricity because of a generator and we're comfy and
the refrigerators, hot water, air conditioning or heat are working, do
you think I should worry about what the propane is costing me? A water
cooled generator for the home would probably run at least $10,000 for
just the hardware and another $5,000 or more for various pieces and
parts and proper installation by licensed electricians and plumbers. And
then what, kitbash some sort of heat scavenging system to provide hot
water to heat something in the house?

On Sat, 06 Jan 2018 19:05:16 -0500, wrote:

If I ever have to do this again I think I would wire my elements in
series and let it just loaf along at ~1.1 KW until the tank was hot.

===

That will work as long as Ohm's law does not get overturned in the
courts. Of course if your elements are in parallell, you could just
lift a wire to one of them as a temporary expedient.



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