....who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

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On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.

On 11/7/2017 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.



There must be a couple of hundred lawyers heading for Texas right now.
Can a private citizen sue the Air Force or Department of Defense?

If so, this could cost the government millions upon millions if not more.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:53:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/7/2017 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.



There must be a couple of hundred lawyers heading for Texas right now.
Can a private citizen sue the Air Force or Department of Defense?

If so, this could cost the government millions upon millions if not more.


===

My (limited) understanding is that you can not sue the federal
government unless the government agrees to it first.

---
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http://www.avg.com

On 11/7/2017 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:53:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/7/2017 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.



There must be a couple of hundred lawyers heading for Texas right now.
Can a private citizen sue the Air Force or Department of Defense?

If so, this could cost the government millions upon millions if not more.


===

My (limited) understanding is that you can not sue the federal
government unless the government agrees to it first.


Didn't read the whole thing but the first few sentences suggests you can:

https://nationaltriallaw.com/can-sue-va-army-navy-air-force/

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:53:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 11/7/2017 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.



There must be a couple of hundred lawyers heading for Texas right now.
Can a private citizen sue the Air Force or Department of Defense?

If so, this could cost the government millions upon millions if not more.


Maybe. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...TCA-29705.html

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 13:07:26 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:53:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:



There must be a couple of hundred lawyers heading for Texas right now.
Can a private citizen sue the Air Force or Department of Defense?

If so, this could cost the government millions upon millions if not more.


Maybe. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...TCA-29705.html

That sort of comes back to the line that you need to get permission
from the government to sue them based on this (from your article)

"Once you have gone through the procedures listed above -- a process
known as "exhausting your administrative remedies" -- you are eligible
to file a lawsuit in court to pursue money damages from the
government". Basically they get to say when you have exhausted all
administrative remedies and they define what that procedure is.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:53:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/7/2017 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.



There must be a couple of hundred lawyers heading for Texas right now.
Can a private citizen sue the Air Force or Department of Defense?

If so, this could cost the government millions upon millions if not more.


You can sue the government but usually just for specific performance
(getting a policy change), not damages. Usually these involve civil
rights issues, property rights or environmental policy.
I am sure the policy is already under review.
Then the question would be whether this is retroactive.
I suppose in the case of guns, the case would be made that the person
lied on the 4473.
There may be other issues tho. Unreported convictions from court
marshals might affect employment, licenses, adoptions and other things
people have been getting away with because the information was lost.

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 11:24:34 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:35:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:55:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

...who let that slip through the cracks.

"The Air Force also acknowledged that it had failed to transmit information about Kelley’s
conviction to the National Criminal Information Center (NCIC) system, a U.S. government data bank
used by licensed firearms dealers to check prospective gun buyers for criminal backgrounds."

http://tinyurl.com/yclpllx3


===

Like most governmental CFs it will probably turn out to be the fault
of organizational leadership faulure. I'd be really surprised if any
one individual is charged with negligence, and I'd also bet that they
will find a lot of other lapses.

It is things like this that make me wonder why people can say the
government should be the solution to all of our problems when their
incompetence is demonstrated every day.
This is clearly a failure of the process and I agree there are going
to be thousands of other lapses in this flawed process. If people like
Harry want universal background checks they should, first, be
interested in the validity of the data that is used in that background
check. It does go both ways. There are people on the "no buy" list
that are on there by mistake (not an easy thing to fix) and there are
others who should be and aren't.


===

And to add insult to injury, it is remarkably easy to make your own
undocumented, fully functional, AR-15 type, semi automatic rifle
because of loopholes in the regs. I wonder how long it will take for
some of those to show up.

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