On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:20:12 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


Most colleges today are nothing more than diploma mills.



Funny stuff...you have been sleeping with Fretwell.

Do we really need to talk about the number of people working at jobs a
high school dropout can do, carrying a 5 figure college debt?

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:15:33 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 7:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Most guys in my age group in the 1960s never got drafted.


You didn't have to be drafted to serve your country.



I don't accept your premise. If you volunteered for the military during
those days, you were enabling the slaughter of SE Asians, even if you
were stationed in Germany, Alabama, or Washington, D.C. If you really
wanted to serve your country during those dark times, you could have
become a fireman, a teacher, a social worker, et cetera.

How did I "enable" the killing of Asians when I was sitting in the
North atlantic on a Coast Guard cutter? Were the Vietcong cruising
around there in diesel subs or were they cleverly disguised as the
airliners we tracked flying overhead?


Harry did more for the military industrial group than all of us together.
He worked on electing warmongering politicians. We were either drafted or
joined the military. Some joined to serve their country, others joined as
they knew they were going to,be drafted and wanted a choice where to serve.

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S


LBJ signed a draft notice that was sent to the wrong address in the fall of
1964 for me. So he was cranking up, even if he was flapping his lips.

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex.
I don’t believe it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a
war zone and actually saw combat.


And if you were in the navy or air force the percentage was even lower
than that. Most of the "Vietnam" air force guys were in support bases
in Thailand, Japan or some other place pretty far away. I think the
majority of the air force was in SAC, MAC or some other duty, nowhere
near SE Asia.
The only navy guys actually in country were SEALs or brown water navy
guys along with the Coast Guard running up the rivers. That is what I
tried for ... twice. I was young and dumb I guess.



Seabees were also in Vietnam. My brother spent two tours building
facilities at China Beach. Is an Agent Orange vet now.

On 8/24/17 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S



More of your nonsense.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:49:24 -0600 (MDT), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 8/24/17 7:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 6:11 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:22 AM, wrote:
On 24 Aug 2017 03:14:14 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country. At least
that's honest.

Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial
complex.
I don?t believe it served the country.

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.



Most guys in my age group in the 1960s never got drafted.


You didn't have to be drafted to serve your country.



I don't accept your premise. If you volunteered for the military during
those days, you were enabling the slaughter of SE Asians, even if you
were stationed in Germany, Alabama, or Washington, D.C. If you really
wanted to serve your country during those dark times, you could have
become a fireman, a teacher, a social worker, et cetera.


But you didn't

Great photo. Was that taken with the new Nikon D850?

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:01:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:14:04 -0400, John H
wrote:

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.

Or me. My first and last overseas tours were in Germany, working on plans to defend us from the
Godless communists! Saddam took our attention away from the Fulda Gap for a while. I wonder if the
forces over there still plan for an 'active defense' in the Fulda Gap.

I think the fall of the Soviets and the, loss for Russia, of all of
those countries between Western Europe and Russia widened the border a
bit and made that surprise attack a little less "surprising".
When Hitler went the other way, he had to take Poland and
Czechoslovakia first.
I do understand why Putin gets nervous when we talk about putting them
into NATO tho. The last time the Russians saw that kind of buildup on
their western border, Barbarosa came next.

It wouldn't have been a big surprise. We knew what was there in terms of divisions and armies. A
hell of a lot of them!

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:22:10 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:17:29 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:49:39 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 17:09:08 -0400,
wrote:

I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.



===

It's easy to understand why, especially for the married guys with
families

I believe the military is best suited to single people. Otherwise
there is always going to be a conflict.
I agree if you have a nice Pentagon, Meade or Andrews billet, you are
just another commuter but like I said, why bother with the military at
that point, just get a job with a DoD contractor.

Don't know about Meade or Andrews, but most Pentagon billets are not nice unless you're a junior
enlisted. The only nice thing about it is not fighting rush hour traffic 'cause you're going in at
o-dark-thirty and coming home well after sunset.

Like I said, a commuter.
Andrews or Meade were a pretty good gig because there was plenty of
housing nearby that a GI could afford and the traffic was easy. I
assume Belvior is the same but I really never knew anyone there. We
also knew a lot of Navy guys at NAS, NRC (Anacostia) and Indian Head.
Bolling had people from all of the services doing something. One guy
we knew was in the Marines working there but I also knew a few Air
Force guys there.
If you lived in SE DC or "near in" PG county, everyone either worked
for USCS or the military. At places like the gun factory (now the
Washington navy yard) there were far more civilians than military. The
last actual "gun" activity was re sleeving the 16" guns on the Iowa.
That was in the early 60s. My father was working some kind of
intelligence job there but he never elaborated beyond saying he did
"planning".

Well, now you know someone. I was stationed at Belvoir for four years, 1972-1976, not counting OCS
there in '67.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:42:05 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S



More of your nonsense.

Nonsense is you posting things like the above without saying which
part was "nonsense".
I understand that if you registered as 2-S they were not going to
draft you.
It is also true that your chance of having to go to SE asia in 1962-3
when you were 18 was nil. It was a volunteer job then and most of the
people there were some kind of special ops that you would not have
qualified for anyway. By the time of the Gulf of Tonkin lie, you would
be in college with a GI Bill scholarship.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:07:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:01:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:14:04 -0400, John H
wrote:

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.

Or me. My first and last overseas tours were in Germany, working on plans to defend us from the
Godless communists! Saddam took our attention away from the Fulda Gap for a while. I wonder if the
forces over there still plan for an 'active defense' in the Fulda Gap.

I think the fall of the Soviets and the, loss for Russia, of all of
those countries between Western Europe and Russia widened the border a
bit and made that surprise attack a little less "surprising".
When Hitler went the other way, he had to take Poland and
Czechoslovakia first.
I do understand why Putin gets nervous when we talk about putting them
into NATO tho. The last time the Russians saw that kind of buildup on
their western border, Barbarosa came next.

It wouldn't have been a big surprise. We knew what was there in terms of divisions and armies. A
hell of a lot of them!

But the Soviets could stage right across the West German border (and
they did) making the Fulda Gap significant. Now the front would be 100
miles from there along the border of Poland, Hungary or Ukraine.
I do think we may have outgrown European ground wars tho.