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#22
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote: This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues behind the recent naval collisions: http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/ They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank, as opposed to a career goal in and of itself. My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a reflection of our inexperience with such things. I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who relished sea duty. Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea. Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army. Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea. There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships. Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis. Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea? I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You? No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical, I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board, other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address info I sent. So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. Over nine million people served on active military duty during the Vietnam War. Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a war zone and actually saw combat. Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the time. Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt no obligation to serve your country then and obviously have never felt otherwise since. That's your right. Others feel differently. The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need to find some. |
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#23
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:49:39 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 17:09:08 -0400, wrote: I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who relished sea duty. === It's easy to understand why, especially for the married guys with families I believe the military is best suited to single people. Otherwise there is always going to be a conflict. I agree if you have a nice Pentagon, Meade or Andrews billet, you are just another commuter but like I said, why bother with the military at that point, just get a job with a DoD contractor. Don't know about Meade or Andrews, but most Pentagon billets are not nice unless you're a junior enlisted. The only nice thing about it is not fighting rush hour traffic 'cause you're going in at o-dark-thirty and coming home well after sunset. |
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#24
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/2017 7:15 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 7:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/24/2017 6:11 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 2:22 AM, wrote: On 24 Aug 2017 03:14:14 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military in the 60s never saw combat or even got close. Most guys in my age group in the 1960s never got drafted. You didn't have to be drafted to serve your country. I don't accept your premise. If you volunteered for the military during those days, you were enabling the slaughter of SE Asians, even if you were stationed in Germany, Alabama, or Washington, D.C. If you really wanted to serve your country during those dark times, you could have become a fireman, a teacher, a social worker, et cetera. Becoming a fireman, teacher or social worker are choices of work careers. A short stint in the military is not a career with the exception of a small percentage who decide to make it a career. Good thing you live in the USA. Many other countries have mandatory military service. It's a means of paying your citizenship dues. |
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#25
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/2017 7:14 AM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 02:22:47 -0400, wrote: On 24 Aug 2017 03:14:14 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country. At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believe it served the country. If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military in the 60s never saw combat or even got close. Or me. My first and last overseas tours were in Germany, working on plans to defend us from the Godless communists! Saddam took our attention away from the Fulda Gap for a while. I wonder if the forces over there still plan for an 'active defense' in the Fulda Gap. Other than a short stint on a patrol gunboat, most of my military shipboard service was spent in helping track down and documenting the locations of Soviet submarines with a new (at the time) system for doing so. |
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#26
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/17 7:16 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote: This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues behind the recent naval collisions: http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/ They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank, as opposed to a career goal in and of itself. My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a reflection of our inexperience with such things. I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who relished sea duty. Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea. Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army. Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea. There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships. Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis. Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea? I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You? No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical, I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board, other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address info I sent. So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. Over nine million people served on active military duty during the Vietnam War. Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a war zone and actually saw combat. Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the time. Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt no obligation to serve your countryÂ* then and obviously have never felt otherwise since. That's your right.Â* Others feel differently. The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need to find some. Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country did in the war against Vietnam served our country. |
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#27
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/17 7:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 7:15 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/24/2017 6:11 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 2:22 AM, wrote: On 24 Aug 2017 03:14:14 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military in the 60s never saw combat or even got close. Most guys in my age group in the 1960s never got drafted. You didn't have to be drafted to serve your country. I don't accept your premise. If you volunteered for the military during those days, you were enabling the slaughter of SE Asians, even if you were stationed in Germany, Alabama, or Washington, D.C. If you really wanted to serve your country during those dark times, you could have become a fireman, a teacher, a social worker, et cetera. Becoming a fireman, teacher or social worker are choices of work careers.Â* A short stint in the military is not a career with the exception of a small percentage who decide to make it a career. Good thing you live in the USA.Â* Many other countries have mandatory military service.Â* It's a means of paying your citizenship dues. snerk |
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#28
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/2017 7:43 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 7:16 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote: This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues behind the recent naval collisions: http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/ They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank, as opposed to a career goal in and of itself. My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a reflection of our inexperience with such things. I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who relished sea duty. Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea. Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army. Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea. There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships. Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis. Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea? I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You? No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical, I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board, other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address info I sent. So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. Over nine million people served on active military duty during the Vietnam War. Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a war zone and actually saw combat. Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the time. Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt no obligation to serve your countryÂ* then and obviously have never felt otherwise since. That's your right.Â* Others feel differently. The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need to find some. Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country did in the war against Vietnam served our country. So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if it was in total peacetime? Figures. |
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#29
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 7:43 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:16 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote: This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues behind the recent naval collisions: http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/ They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank, as opposed to a career goal in and of itself. My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a reflection of our inexperience with such things. I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who relished sea duty. Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea. Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army. Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea. There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships. Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis. Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea? I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You? No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical, I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board, other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address info I sent. So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. Over nine million people served on active military duty during the Vietnam War. Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a war zone and actually saw combat. Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the time. Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt no obligation to serve your countryÂ* then and obviously have never felt otherwise since. That's your right.Â* Others feel differently. The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need to find some. Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country did in the war against Vietnam served our country. So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if it was in total peacetime?Â* Figures. Have you been sleeping with Fretwell? You went to college...you have no business trying to use that sort of illogical logic. |
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#30
posted to rec.boats
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A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
On 8/24/2017 8:05 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/24/2017 7:43 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:16 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote: This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues behind the recent naval collisions: http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/ They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank, as opposed to a career goal in and of itself. My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a reflection of our inexperience with such things. I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who relished sea duty. Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea. Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army. Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea. There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships. Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis. Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea? I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You? No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical, I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board, other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address info I sent. So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least that's honest. Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex. I don’t believeÂ* it served the country. Over nine million people served on active military duty during the Vietnam War. Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a war zone and actually saw combat. Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the time. Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt no obligation to serve your countryÂ* then and obviously have never felt otherwise since. That's your right.Â* Others feel differently. The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need to find some. Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country did in the war against Vietnam served our country. So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if it was in total peacetime?Â* Figures. Have you been sleeping with Fretwell? You went to college...you have no business trying to use that sort of illogical logic. I went to college to get the credentials I thought I would need for a career as an engineer, not to adopt a political philosophy. As it turned out it was mostly a waste of time and money in terms of learning technical skills. In hindsight I now realize that Navy electronic schools of the era in which I attended them provided a much better education in that regard. The civilian schools taught what an electronic component was used for. The Navy schools taught how they worked. Most colleges today are nothing more than diploma mills. |
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